cat drop out (bypass) pipes

[Anthony - 98 GTS]

I have the same year GTS and the same 3" exhaust system (Hennessey) including headers. I am having a custom piece made by a local exhaust shop to eliminate the cats.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Folks, removing the cats is illegal, having a shop do it makes them criminals, you will contribute 20-50 times the regulated exhaust constituents, and you may gain a few hp out of the many hundreds you have. Adding to pollutants in the air is what causes the EPA to turn around and require "cleaner" fuels that try to catch up to certain air cleanliness targets by specific dates, which increases the price/decreases supply of gasoline and often uses components (ethanol, additives) that further increase the cost and may not make the fuel better to drive with. The more folks that do this, the more likely where you live will require more strict IM 240 or visual emissions equipment inspections, and you'll end up having to pay the fine and put it all back on - perhaps to stock and not with the headers and 3" pipes you might have had. Please consider other alternatives.

 

[Bill/APEX Motorsports]

Enzo, do you have stock cats or high-flows in there? I ask because we've done many exhaust packages with our 3" cats, and even under race conditions, the large-body cats decrease the side-sill heat tremendously.

 

[GTS Bruce]

If you don't get sniffed then ditch the cats.You will be happy.Car will be cooler and louder.Your cat removal on that Viper will make as much difference to air quality as you taking a leak in the ocean makes in water quality. Bruce

 

[SmokinV10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom, F&L GoR:
Folks, removing the cats is illegal, having a shop do it makes them criminals, you will contribute 20-50 times the regulated exhaust constituents, and you may gain a few hp out of the many hundreds you have. Adding to pollutants in the air is what causes the EPA to turn around and require "cleaner" fuels that try to catch up to certain air cleanliness targets by specific dates, which increases the price/decreases supply of gasoline and often uses components (ethanol, additives) that further increase the cost and may not make the fuel better to drive with. The more folks that do this, the more likely where you live will require more strict IM 240 or visual emissions equipment inspections, and you'll end up having to pay the fine and put it all back on - perhaps to stock and not with the headers and 3" pipes you might have had. Please consider other alternatives.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DO I Detect a tree hugger?

Hey buddy, Its probably time to sell your car for something more fuel efficient! I heard you can get GEO's for under $10K. Go for it! It suits you much better

 

[Bill/APEX Motorsports]

Ahhh...headers, 3" cat-back, and stock cats--that explains the heat! Our cats are $299 for the pair and are EACH rated for a 360 cu. in. motor. Plenty of flow! Installed in plenty of street and race Vipers. I have them in stock.
(Check your email.)

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Smokin, you're off base. Working for a big oil company for over 20 years, developing the fuels, additives, coolants, and engine oils for the fun and fast cars we like doesn't make me a tree hugger. In fact, of the 5 cars I have, the Viper gets the best fuel economy. And the emissions regulations are in grams per mile, doesn't matter how big or small the engine. So a V10 and a Geo Metro can each puke out the same amount into the air and pass the requirement, regardless of how much fuel they use.

But I do see the effect that air quality has on the price of fuel, engine oil formulations, and consumer regulations that we all have to pay for because a few don't think it's worth following a few easy rules.

Enough folks dump used oil in the woods, so now we have a tax on each bottle that you buy in the store and mandatory recycling programs that your service station has to pay for (and then charge you.) I can foresee that you won't be able to buy oil and that you have to go to oil change facility to ensure you can't dump it in the woods. (Kind of like air conditioning recharging systems that automatically recover the old Freon.)

To lower current air pollution levels, OEMs can only make new cars better (not the old ones.) So to help ensure emissions systems on new cars work better, they go to extremes - such as pushing for fewer antiwear additives in the oil (because the additives "may" foul parts of the emission control system.) Hmmm... do you really want the only oil you can buy to have fewer additives that protect your engine? Do you really want to pay more for additional emissions doo-dads?

Cities with poor air quality have more stringent gasoline specs. The specs were so onerous that not too long ago, the Chicago area couldn't produce enough gasoline, so prices shot over $2/gallon. (When you could find it.) Wanna live in Chicago?

Ask around and see how much you really gain, maybe 10 hp out of 450? You'll never notice it.

And actually I do have a "green" car, it just happens to be a Viper.

 

[Bill/APEX Motorsports]

Here in California, the fines for getting caught without cats are pretty tremendous, and they can impound your car on the spot! A few of my customers were at a car show in San Mateo, and it turns out there were some plain-clothed EPA-type guys inconspicuously checking under all the cars to see if they had cats or not. No cats, and they wrote down your license plate number and contacted you later for a mandatory trip to the smog referee. Pretty sneaky!

 

[CAP]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill/APEX Motorsports:
it turns out there were some plain-clothed EPA-type guys inconspicuously checking under all the cars to see if they had cats or not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that's one "advantage" for the Viper. Can't tell, visually, if cats are there or not without taking off the sidesills.

 

[Russ M]

"Folks, removing the cats is illegal, having a shop do it makes them criminals, you will contribute 20-50 times the regulated exhaust constituents, and you may gain a few hp out of the many hundreds you have. Adding to pollutants in the air is what causes the EPA to turn around and require "cleaner" fuels that try to catch up to certain air cleanliness targets by specific dates, which increases the price/decreases supply of gasoline and often uses components (ethanol, additives) that further increase the cost and may not make the fuel better to drive with. The more folks that do this, the more likely where you live will require more strict IM 240 or visual emissions equipment inspections, and you'll end up having to pay the fine and put it all back on - perhaps to stock and not with the headers and 3" pipes you might have had. Please consider other alternatives."

 

[TX WHOS YOUR DADDY]

TOM,CAN U GIVE US YOUR TAKE AS TO WHY COMMERCIAL TRANSPORT TRUCKS THAT SPEW OUT THIER DIESEL CRAP ALL OVER AMERICAN ROADS ARE NOT REGULATED FOR EMISSIONS?WHY ARE THEY EXEMPT?THANX!

 

[ElDiablo Viper]

The leaf blower produces more pollution than my Viper. Why don't you go on their board and tell them about your theory. I can tell you they are at my complex twice a week and working two whole days with 4 blowers. Next time I'll ask them to put cats on

 

[grayman]

TO Tom and all the other tree huggers:

Exactly as others have said... save your concerns for someone who actually gives a s$%&!. There are bigger problems in the world than the emmissions spit out by a catless car. A newer well maintained vehicle with no cats has been known to pass an emission test nontheless. It is politics, not air quality. If air quality was an issue, then diesels would not be exempt from emission standards. The reason they are is because the trucking industry/oil industry finds it very difficult to make a cost effective low emmissions diesel to rival gas equivalents.

Well, enough rambling for me. Ive gotta go take a leak into the neighbors pool. Thank god I live in the rural US where noone gives a rats *** how much crap you decide to burn in your own backyard or how many #'s of carcinogins get expelled from your CATLESS VIPER!!!!!

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Well, I thought a little fact now and then would help, but I guess it doesn't if nobody listens, learns, or can't get over some preconceived idea.

Otherwise, fro example, you'd know that CO is invisible and odorless and because you can't tell it's there, you assume it's not so bad to take the cats off. Diesel soot is something you can see, and it doesn't take much for the eye to pick up, but in the short term, it's the same as inhaling dust. Hey, here's another chance to get me, guys: I'll huff on a diesel tailpipe if you **** on your cat-less tube. I'd live longer. You think all other countries outside the US have diesel passenger cars because they're stupid?

And last time I looked, more than half the cost of any fuel in the US is tax, so as a consumer, you do not know how much the fuel actually costs. You also don't seem to know that passenger car gasoline and diesel engines have nearly the same emissions requirements. And you don't seem to have any idea about what diesel OEMs have done to reduce emissions already. What you are basing your opinion on is seeing the dark cloud spewing out of a truck that somebody fooled around with ... sort of like taking the cats off. Surely you don't believe those trucks were making that smoke driving off the dealer's lot.

And there are lots of other facts that won't get any attention here. So let's get back to peeing in the ocean... that's sort of like saying you don't care about the bug spots on a Zaino'd Viper. It's always OK as long as it isn't yours....

 

[GTS Bruce]

Peeing in the ocean.Viper with no cats.Zaino with a couple of dead bugs on it.All are a harmless non-issue. Bruce

 

[Cudaman]

Tom.... Here is something for you to for to chew on. Agriculture uses farm use diesel with higher pollutants than highway use diesel .This diesel fuel is very low taxed because non road use classification. The tractors used to produce the food you eat every day, is putting out more pollutants than a catless Viper. The tractor that is used to produce the cotton you wear also pollutes. I think the number of tractors in the USA out number the catless Vipers by a large margin. The electric plant that makes electric ....my point is ...if you are that concerned, DO NOT wear any clothes , do not eat any food that you do not produce yourself, install a windmill to make electricity and ride a bike( but not a horse because they pollute too).We won't even get into 3rd world countries.
My reason of considering going catless is HEAT. I have a R/T 10 live in Florida, I enjoy riding with top off(A/C doesn't work with top off). But I am tried of riding with my feet in the oven.
PS every car & truck I own has original factory equipment installed, including my 8 Diesel tractors and 6 Diesel trucks
Cudaman

 

[VENM8R]

Speaking of pollution at the farm, better start on the burping cows next. They really spew out the methane, contributing their smelly share to global warming. Far more than all the vipers in the world.
Why, I think I ought to drive my viper down to the local Burger King and order a meal to go! (in honor of both)