Changing Spark Plug Questions

[pocketAA]

I got the Champion copper spark plugs (Part Number 412) to replace the existing plugs. My car is a 99 RT/10. Do I need to do anything special when replacing the plugs? Do I just need to remove the existing plugs and put in the new ones? Do I need to spray the plugs with anything like anti-seizing componet or anything?

Thanks!

 

[dave6666]

There has been a lot written about that. I would use the search feature here on spark plugs and such.

Anti-seize vs. no anti-seize is a huge debate. What the torque spec is in each case follows in the debate.

You will have to form your own opinion!

 

[Ron]

I wouldn't spray them with anything as it would coat the insulator in addition to the threads. I add a very light coat of antiseize to the plug threads to protect the aluminum threads in the head, however you should use a torque wrench to reinstall and be careful that you don't add so much antiseize that it:

Overlubricates the threads which could facilitate overtorquing.
Get any on the insulator as antiseize is typically electrically conductive.

I apply then wipe almost all of it off. I've never had an issue with plugs, but recently snapped a brake bolt that had some grease on the threads. Never torqued up, just snapped instead. I suppose that's why they say never to lubricate the wheel studs........

To Dave's point above, on my 300 I even backed off the final torque by 5 NM after adding the antiseize as it felt plenty tight enough to seal the crushable washer. Very unscientific.

 

[pocketAA]

Okay, thanks! Any others with opinions please chime in.

 

[95Viper]

Get an inch clicker torque wrench at Sears for $60. Back off the spec a tiny bit when you add a very, very light dab of antiseeze.

 

[wigginz]

I just changed mine on my 2002 ACR a couple months back. Here's what I did, and had no problems. I'm pretty sure I changed the plugs when the engine was cold to avoid any stretching issues with the treads.

1. Pull the wires out one by one so you don't lose the ordering (very important).

2. Using some compressed air to blow out any dust/debris before you remove the old plugs.

3. Remove the old plugs with a normal wrench, they should come out pretty easy.

4. Put in the new plug and torque to 20lbs. You should also check that the gap is .035 using one of those round measuring coin type things you can get cheap at the parts store. I did not use anti seize, I read this is not needed with the type of thread the stock Champions use.

5. Put the wire back on, you'll hear a click when it's in place. I changed wires a few days later and AB's wires came with some of the grease which I then applied to the top of the plugs.

That's pretty much what I did, worked from the front left all the way down then the front right all the way down. I don't remember if I had to remove the plastic cowell (sp?) at the base of the windshield to give me room for the rear plugs. You might have to to give yourself some extra room.

 

[Angela]

What are the best spark plugs on the market to buy for stock 1994 rt/10? What is the recommended gap and torque specks? Any help would be much appreciated!

Also, does anyone know of any ignition system upgrades for 94 rt/10?
-Adam

 

[Jack B]

I just changed mine on my 2002 ACR a couple months back. Here's what I did, and had no problems. I'm pretty sure I changed the plugs when the engine was cold to avoid any stretching issues with the treads.

1. Pull the wires out one by one so you don't lose the ordering (very important).

2. Using some compressed air to blow out any dust/debris before you remove the old plugs.

3. Remove the old plugs with a normal wrench, they should come out pretty easy.

4. Put in the new plug and torque to 20lbs. You should also check that the gap is .035 using one of those round measuring coin type things you can get cheap at the parts store. I did not use anti seize, I read this is not needed with the type of thread the stock Champions use.

5. Put the wire back on, you'll hear a click when it's in place. I changed wires a few days later and AB's wires came with some of the grease which I then applied to the top of the plugs.

That's pretty much what I did, worked from the front left all the way down then the front right all the way down. I don't remember if I had to remove the plastic cowell (sp?) at the base of the windshield to give me room for the rear plugs. You might have to to give yourself some extra room.

1. 20 ft-lbs might be a bit high.

2. You only have to remove the air box

3. You would be suprised but a 18"-24" wobble extension can get all the plugs and it sure makes it easy.

 

[AFL in NJ]

When I change my plugs, I torque to 15 ft/lbs and always use a small dab of anti-seize on the threads. As Ab said, the wires you use should already have some silicone dilectric grease inside the boot to prevent any moisture from getting in there, but if they don't add a dollup to the boot before inserting on the plug and you'll be in great shape.

Regards,
Aaron

 

[Purdue_Boiler_Viper]

I believe Tator recommends using the stock plug. That will change if you have any major mods.

From my 01 manual, "Always tighten spark plugs to the specified torque." That is 20 ft.lbs.

 

[dave6666]

I believe Tator recommends using the stock plug. That will change if you have any major mods.

From my 01 manual, "Always tighten spark plugs to the specified torque." That is 20 ft.lbs.

I agree with the plug recommendation of stock. Having read nearly every post on plugs, stock seemed to win the vote for an engine with mild to no mods.

Also, back to the every post on spark plugs I read, if you do not use anti-seize, then the factory torque of 20 ft #'s gets a near unanimous nod. However, one you get into the highly debated thread lubes, it is also nearly agreed upon the torque should be reduced.

 

[Purdue_Boiler_Viper]

I have not seen any rationale for reducing torque. I have seen a lot of opinions. I don't see any connection between the rotational force needed to screw the plug in, which is influenced by lube, and the torque needed to seat the plug correctly and prevent back out, which is what is specified by DC.

 

[dave6666]

I have not seen any rationale for reducing torque. I have seen a lot of opinions. I don't see any connection between the rotational force needed to screw the plug in, which is influenced by lube, and the torque needed to seat the plug correctly and prevent back out, which is what is specified by DC.

The anti-seize adds a lubricant that the 20 ft #'s of factory recommended torque does not consider in the spec. That is the rationale. Anytime you engineer something to a dry thread torque, and then add a serious lubricant like an anti-seize, common engineering sense and even formulas would say reduce the torque. Friction is a factor in force generated by rotation on a screw. As an engineer, I believe all that, and like I said earlier, it looks like most others agree with that logic.

 

[PatentLaw]

What Aaron said (AFL). Agreed with cleaning depressions for the plugs.

 

[Purdue_Boiler_Viper]

The anti-seize adds a lubricant that the 20 ft #'s of factory recommended torque does not consider in the spec. That is the rationale. Anytime you engineer something to a dry thread torque, and then add a serious lubricant like an anti-seize, common engineering sense and even formulas would say reduce the torque. Friction is a factor in force generated by rotation on a screw. As an engineer, I believe all that, and like I said earlier, it looks like most others agree with that logic.

I've never engineered anything to a "dry thread torque". Which formula are you referring to: "common engineering sense and even formulas "?

Let's assume I invent the perfect "serious" lubricant with a coefficient of friction of zero. Does this mean the torque goes to zero?

 

[Jack B]

I've never engineered anything to a "dry thread torque". Which formula are you referring to: "common engineering sense and even formulas "?

Let's assume I invent the perfect "serious" lubricant with a coefficient of friction of zero. Does this mean the torque goes to zero?

If you use anti-seize and 20 ft-lbs you will eventually strip the threads. In affect you will shear the threads since the full 20 ft-lbs is trying to pull them out. When they are dry a large part of the 20 ft-lbs is used in overcoming torsional friction.

I just installed studs to hold down the heads, the manufacturer had a huge dialog explaining the difference when using various lubricants. As an example on the viper heads due to the length of the bolt in the block about 40% of the torque is used to overcome the torsinal friction, only 60% is trying to pull the threads out. Use a good anto-seize and the same torque and you will strip the threads in the block.

 

[FE 065]

I always use a 8" or so section of 3/8ID rubber hose to start the new plugs in the hole. No chance of cross threading by accident..

-------------------------------
For sale:
Chrome ACR wheels & New SVS short shifter

 

[dave6666]

I've never engineered anything to a "dry thread torque". Which formula are you referring to: "common engineering sense and even formulas "?

Let's assume I invent the perfect "serious" lubricant with a coefficient of friction of zero. Does this mean the torque goes to zero?

Read this.

http://www.engineersedge.com/torque.htm

The final sentence at the bottom is important.

And about that perfect lubricant... Stick with reality...

 

[ViperTony]

Do you people really have problems with your spark plugs loosening sans anti-seize? I don't apply anti-seize to the threads and have yet so see one plug loosen. How common of a problem is this for Vipers?

 

[dave6666]

Do you people really have problems with your spark plugs loosening sans anti-seize? I don't apply anti-seize to the threads and have yet so see one plug loosen. How common of a problem is this for Vipers?

I think the use of anti-seize is more so for the fear of NOT being able to remove them, as opposed to the fear of them removing themselves.

 

[ViperTony]

I think the use of anti-seize is more so for the fear of NOT being able to remove them, as opposed to the fear of them removing themselves.

OK...how many have not been able to remove their if anti-seize hasn't been used? I've never seen it happen unless the plugs have been over-torqued and that usually leads to other serious problems. Why not keep it simple, get a good torque wrench and follow specs?

 

[dave6666]

OK...how many have not been able to remove them if anti-seize hasn't been installed? I've never seen it happen unless the plugs have been over-torqued.

I have a non Viper air cooled vehicle with aluminum heads that all 4 plug holes now have steel inserts. They seized. I've personally never changed my plugs on the Snake, but when I do I will follow suit and use a small amount of anti-seize with reduced torque. This may need to be filed in the warm-fuzzy-feeling list of mods.

 

[Qualitywires.com]

Check out these wires....they will work great with your plugs

www.qualitywires.com

 

[dave6666]

Check out these wires....they will work great with your plugs

www.qualitywires.com

Nice plug AB... And yes, when I do finally change my spark plugs, the wires will be yours.

 

[ROCKET62]

Am I the only one that thinks its defintely worth the time to remove the airbox on the passenger side to make getting at those plugs a piece of cake?

Works for me!

 

[dave6666]

Am I the only one that thinks its defintely worth the time to remove the airbox on the passenger side to make getting at those plugs a piece of cake?

Works for me!

Uh, where'd that shot come from? We've been arguing about torque specs. I think you have a great suggestion though.

 

[cayman]

No anti-seize used here. Torqued using my calibrated wrists. I've had these plugs out three or four times now checking to see their conditions since I'm running a SC. No probs. I torque everything else but not on spark plugs. How do you get an accurate torque reading on the no. 2 and 9 plugs anyways? You can't put an extension straight out of those holes without using a wobble or universal adapter.

 

[AFL in NJ]

I was always taught that torquing included some minor amount of oil to ensure the torque value was correct and not threads binding (but I trained as a Civil Engineer, so my training is on huge bolts holding iron and steel together). I always used 15 ft lbs simply because that was what I was taught by my Dad....however if the manual (which I don't own) says 20 ft lbs. I would likely have used that value.....but now I'm all confused, so I'd probably split the difference and torque them to 17 ft lbs.

Regards,
Aaron

 

[PatentLaw]

Had spark plugs seize on another vehicle. You don't want that to happen on your Viper. Trust me.

 

[pocketAA]

So I still do not know what the answer is? Do I use anti-seizing compound or not? I would guess Tator would know the definitive answer to this question. The manual does say to torque to 20 ft lbs which is what I will do.