Charger Hellcat too

Twister

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Idk..... Im more and more pissed that the viper seems abandoned. Ive never seen any halo vehicle get out powered like this but siblings that are just regular cars.

Dodge is really screwing the viper loyalist imho...

They'd better drop a supercharged viper with 888 hp soon
 

Twister

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From 645 to 777 would be a 3 psi supercharger..

They should run 6 psi to hit the 888
 

Twister

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How much would a 888 hp viper be worth? Im thinking 125k base price....thing would sell like hotcakes...

Limit it to 300 a year and your really onto somthing
 

Free2go

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From 645 to 777 would be a 3 psi supercharger..

They should run 6 psi to hit the 888

5 psi on a nice safe tune, 840hp with a locked down PCM, and under warranty. I can't imagine that sitting around too long.
 

Mopar Steve

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In New York at the unveiling Ralph talked about the engines forged internals with a big grin and even chuckled about what that could mean. I am actually surprised we haven't seen any forced induction yet on the Viper. I am a believer that it will come.
 

pathoguy

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If not in the market, then how can you answer, propose an answer or even feel your opinion is worth the 2 pennies.

I value the opinion of non Gen 5/viper owners maybe even more than folk like me that already have one. There are owners, potential owners, those that might become potential owners, those that are just interested enough to post and participate in debate. The least important category right now are the owners. We have made the purchase commitment, we know how great this car is from being a driver/owner. So how do you influence the non-potential to become potential and the potential to become buyers?
 

viperbilliam

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As a potential buyer of either markets, I can't see taking a Hellcat over a Viper even though it's a lot more affordable because it's too heavy. It's a lot easier to add hp then to cut out weight. The Viper is lot more than a straight line car. The feel and response of a lighter car = more fun. Some of you value the hp more and that's fine but you're looking for a muscle car pure and simple, not a sports car. I think it's great what Dodge did with the Hellcat but I won't buy it because it adds almost 200 lbs to a car that's already a porker (although a pretty refined car that is a nice piece of work).
 
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sunsalem

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In New York at the unveiling Ralph talked about the engines forged internals with a big grin and even chuckled about what that could mean. I am actually surprised we haven't seen any forced induction yet on the Viper. I am a believer that it will come.
SRT had to have considered FI as a possible future.
Otherwise, Ralph wouldn't have mentioned it (the guy is no dummy).;)

As others have noted, a roots-style SC (like the Hellcat) wouldn't fit in the current engine because of height.
However, there may be enough room in the engine bay for a Centrifugal SC.:dunno:

IMO, a turbo might be a better possibility.
1) Turbos have better fuel economy.
2) Like the Centrifugal SC, there may be room for it without too much modification.
3) Fiat has a design sitting on the shelf that might work on the Viper: the very slick new turbo being used on the California T, which will be introduced to the rest of their line-up over time.


I value the opinion of non Gen 5/viper owners maybe even more than folk like me that already have one. There are owners, potential owners, those that might become potential owners, those that are just interested enough to post and participate in debate. The least important category right now are the owners. We have made the purchase commitment, we know how great this car is from being a driver/owner. So how do you influence the non-potential to become potential and the potential to become buyers?
I fall into that category.:)

In a certain sense, the future of G5 rests in their hands.
They will be the ones who can take cars off dealer lots....reducing inventory and encouraging more production.


As a potential buyer of either markets, I can't see taking a Hellcat over a Viper even though it's a lot more affordable because it's too heavy. It's a lot easier to add hp then to cut out weight. The Viper is lot more than a straight line car. The feel and response of a lighter car = more fun. Some of you value the hp more and that's fine but you're looking for a muscle car pure and simple, not a sports car. I think it's great what Dodge did with the Hellcat but I won't buy it because it adds almost 200 lbs to a car that's already a porker (although a pretty refined car that is a nice piece of work).
Well said.
 

Free2go

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As others have noted, a roots-style SC (like the Hellcat) wouldn't fit in the current engine because of height.
However, there may be enough room in the engine bay for a Centrifugal.

Polished twin screw supercharger or nothing.
 

drl650

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Bobpantax

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http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/44...ll-unleash-750-horsepower-in-2016-svt-mustang

I think it is BS. The car being tested is a prototype GT 350 Mustang.

Plus, its speculative and is two model years away. The Challenger Hellcat and Charger Hellcat exist. So this BS is just Ford caught with its pants down trying to catch up through social media hype.

On another front, I wonder what the Charger Hellcat would look like with a six vent hood like the Viper SRT hood variant. Can someone photoshop one for us? Austin, are you out there?
 

Free2go

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Judging by Ford and GM's reaction so far, they didn't see the Hellcat coming.;)

Oh I'm sure they saw it coming...and they damn sure read the forums. With the release of the Hellcat, it's the perfect experiment for Ford and GM to sit back and watch how sales pan out. The Hellcat appears to be popular, so what a better way to eliminate crossover shoppers than to release a rumor such as the "Hellstang" or the mid engined "Zora".
 

Free2go

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http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/44...ll-unleash-750-horsepower-in-2016-svt-mustang

I think it is BS. The car being tested is a prototype GT 350 Mustang.

Plus, its speculative and is two model years away. The Challenger Hellcat and Charger Hellcat exist. So this BS is just Ford caught with its pants down trying to catch up through social media hype.

On another front, I wonder what the Charger Hellcat would look like with a six vent hood like the Viper SRT hood variant. Can someone photoshop one for us? Austin, are you out there?

Ole Bob....cast aside someone else's dream as BS and then immediately try to get somebody to dream up a new hood for you. :D
 

kratedisease

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I believe that Ford will Trump the Challengers and Chargers horsepower. It will have to to keep competitive.

And the Mustang weighs less.....

BUT..... Does Ford have an automatic transmission that will or would work with a 710 or higher horsepower engine, and one that shifts as fast as the Hellcat transmission that also is an 8 speed.

Ford may increase HP.........but without a stout, fast shifting auto, they are still playing catch up.

The transmission is what also put Dodge ahead of the game technology wise.
 
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sunsalem

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Oh I'm sure they saw it coming...and they damn sure read the forums.
I haven't heard anyone say they knew about a 707hp muscle car coming from Dodge soon.
Everybody around here seemed to have been surprised when it was announced...


The Hellcat appears to be popular, so what a better way to eliminate crossover shoppers than to release a rumor such as the "Hellstang"
This tells me they were caught flat-footed.;)
 

Bobpantax

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Not really. Fabricating an aftermarket hood is not a big deal. Producing an OEM 777 HP Mustang is.

Ole Bob....cast aside someone else's dream as BS and then immediately try to get somebody to dream up a new hood for you. :D
 

05Commemorative

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First step would to be for them to know what type of car they want. The point of my quote (of which you only took part) was that someone is describing how the Charger/Challenger impacts Viper sales and my point was to dispute that because they are not even in the same category of car nor are they even remotely in the same price range. So, the question I posed was for existing or potential owners or potential owners that purchased something else to answer if it would have made a differences in their purchase decision.

Having someone speak that is not in the market is too many levels removed from the topic that was happening then.

Lastly, if folks are confused between these cars to the point if would effect their buying decision, then I don't believe they are truly in the market. I don't think people make $100k car decisions without having a pretty good idea of what they want. Confusing a 3300lb 2 seater $100k+ sports car with a 4500lb $60k passenger car is pretty shocking to me. Suggest the person looking to spend $100k on that 2seater is now thinking they will instead get a charger/challenger is pretty amazing. All I was saying is show me who that person is.

I value the opinion of non Gen 5/viper owners maybe even more than folk like me that already have one. There are owners, potential owners, those that might become potential owners, those that are just interested enough to post and participate in debate. The least important category right now are the owners. We have made the purchase commitment, we know how great this car is from being a driver/owner. So how do you influence the non-potential to become potential and the potential to become buyers?
 

MoparMap

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SRT had to have considered FI as a possible future.
Otherwise, Ralph wouldn't have mentioned it (the guy is no dummy).;)

As others have noted, a roots-style SC (like the Hellcat) wouldn't fit in the current engine because of height.
However, there may be enough room in the engine bay for a Centrifugal SC.:dunno:

Has any manufacturer done a centrifugal style charger from the factory since the 60s? I remember seeing the old Paxtons on some of the muscle cars on the auctions, but I don't think I've ever seen a centrifugal from the factory since them. Seems like the twin screw setup is the more efficient version of supercharging, so maybe that has something to do with it.
 

Bobpantax

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No. It would need bigger brakes; a different intercooler, stronger internals to meet durability testing; suspension changes, etc.

They already have a Mustang with 662hp. 777hp might just be a tune.
 

DMan

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Not really. Fabricating an aftermarket hood is not a big deal. Producing an OEM 777 HP Mustang is.

As someone who owned a 2011 GT500 and now a 2014 GT500, making 603rwhp off the showroom floor, and with $1400 and 90 mins made 690rwhp, while tame enough for my wife & 20 yr old son to drive with no issue, and sit in DC 495 rush hour traffic on a 98 degree day, etc. These engines & supporting systems are so well engineered, I really don't think it'd take much at all for Ford to offer this engine well above 700 crank hp, certainly 725-750hp would be just a tune and intake tube, literally. They make the 662hp in a serious state of de-tune/richness that's silly. The challenge would be in ensuring it'd fit in he 550 chassis and that the IRS was up to the tq demands.

I'd love to drop one of these engines in a Viper, blasphemous as it sounds, running a simple 800hp setup that is cool and reliable and so easy to work in a chassis like the Viper would be insane. SRT says a modular V8 won't fit though, so those dedicated to the V10 I guess needn't worry, we're left to the V10 but also with its "limits" per SRT, since they profess it's squeezed about all the hp there is to be had.
 

MoparMap

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Fitting a V8 wouldn't probably be that much of an issue, but fitting a Hemi is likely more the problelm. The heads are stupid wide and the exhaust setup on them is typically a little different than wedge heads. If you look at most heads, they actually taper from the block mating surface up to the valve cover surface, so the exhaust actually points more sideways when installed on a V shaped block. On the hemi, the heads basically square (if not tapered out a little from bottom to top), so the exhaust actually points out and down and right into the frame rails of lots of cars. I saw them on my 67 Dart hemi swap. You don't install headers bolts from the side, you practically install them vertically from the bottom of the car.

Seeing as the V10 is sort of based on the old LA architecture, a V8 would likely fit, but who wants a 5.2/5.9 Magnum engine in a Viper? Dodge had this same issue back with the 340. The 360 came to be known as a bit of a pig when it came out because of EPA restrictions cutting power so bad, but what a lot of people didn't realize is that the 360 was basically a 340 to start with. The 340 had such a reputation for performance that Dodge didn't want to release such a detuned version of it, so they rebadged it as a 360. To this day people still think the 360 is crap (partially just because aftermarket parts aren't as available for it), but it can be made into one mean 408 stroker.

What I'm mostly getting at is that the Hemi is the Dodge performance engine namesake. If the Viper gets a V8 that's not a Hemi, I think most would think it was an inferior engine for one reason or another.
 
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sunsalem

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Has any manufacturer done a centrifugal style charger from the factory since the 60s? I remember seeing the old Paxtons on some of the muscle cars on the auctions, but I don't think I've ever seen a centrifugal from the factory since them.
Frankly, I don't know if any factory car has had one.
I am aware of the centrifugal only because I had to make a decision 20 years ago regarding installing an SC in a Mustang Cobra.
At that time, they were all the rage.


Seems like the twin screw setup is the more efficient version of supercharging, so maybe that has something to do with it.
IMO, they are (which is why I went with a Kenne Bell), although more difficult to install than a Paxton, etc.


they profess it's squeezed about all the hp there is to be had.
I have read this too and don't really buy it.

8.4L is a LOT of displacement.
Looking at the numbers of other high-end NA engines (MB's 6.2 V8, for example) it would seem there is more to be had from the ol' V10.

OTOH, if it really is "all the hp there is to be had," it begs the question whether it's time to retire the motor and move to a newer design.
Unfortunately, it will cost some dough that may not be in the budget of the G5.
 
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sunsalem

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If the Viper gets a V8 that's not a Hemi, I think most would think it was an inferior engine for one reason or another.
What about starting with a non-Hemi block with new internals, heads, and intake putting out 800+ as a turbo?

Do you think Viperdom would accept it?
 
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