Clearing the air re: our 550 cu. in. package

[Bill/APEX Motorsports]

Let me begin by saying that we pride ourselves in offering the best parts and the best customer service. We take the time to do the job right, no matter what its scope.
Since we were surprised to read about this on the Board, I just called Jason Heffner, who is the one who installed the supercharger on Mash's Viper, and he said there is no problem with the valves, valve springs, or camshaft, and he's not sure where anyone got that information. Feel free to call him yourself to verify.
When the car left here, it was running great (we never heard otherwise), albeit not tuned because of the future mods that were in its immediate future. Mashour broke in the motor, had the supercharger installed, and has since had the camshaft changed twice to experiment with power and drivability.
And last I heard and read from Mashour's posts regarding the awesome power the car made with the supercharger, everything was running flawlessly.
Thanks for listening.

 

[SoCal Rebell]

Bill, thanks for an honest reply, it's greatly appreciated, you guys at Apex are honorable people.

 

[Anthony - 98 GTS]

Bill,

Best of luck - I hope you get everything cleared up. Keep us posted.

 

[MaxedGTS]

Thats what i said.....let the tuners speak so the rumors go away. hope all goes well

Max

 

[Gerald]

wow, what a croc! that are BIG allegations if someone's motor didn't blow and someone spread that it did. Not cool!

 

[RedGTS]

Gerald, Bill didn't say that Jason said the car is in perfect health, or that the motor didn't blow. He said that Jason said there was nothing wrong with the valves, valve springs, or camshaft. Last time I checked an engine has a few more components than that. Bottom line is Bill is a good guy and he would take care of the situation appropriately if there is any evidence of fault on Apex's part, which so far hasn't appeared.

 

[Torquemonster]

I wasn't going to post here - but seeing as REDGTS brought up what I was thinking when I first read the post....

Wonder how the heads, block, rods, bearings, pistons, head gaskets and intake are? A blown engine does not always mean someones fault - could be a bad part - but a lot was said by what hasn't been said. Whatever - a failure is always a shame. Hope it all works out.

 

[Bad_Byte]

I would have to say regardless of the health of the engine in question, Bill has earned my respect simply by posting here. If you don't know there is a problem how can it be fixed? If you bury your head in the sand you'll soon be asphixiated. Seems like we have a stand up guy as a tuner here.

Bottom line IMHO, unless there is a written warranty similar to the OEM warranty then the buyer assumes the risk no matter what the mod.

 

[Torquemonster]

Agreed - one tuner has stood up.

The other is probably very busy trying to sort it out.

as for warranty on mods - it all comes down to the understanding between a customer and the tuner. An honourable person would honour any verbal understanding. A smart tuner would clarify in writing first. But if the customer accepted all risk - as they would over here 99% of the time - then failure is part of the cost of being different..... but it's still a big blow for the guy, and a big disappointment for the tuner most affected. Nobody should be gloating - it ***** when a lot of money burns for nothing. Let's hope something gets learned so it does not happen again.

 

[DEVILDOG]

I missed something because I still don't know what happened?

 

[Jason Heffner]

I'm not exactly sure what is or isn't being said here. If someone would be kind enough to point out whether or not anyone is being accused of one thing or another. If so I have some interesting facts and pictures that may clear up a lot of confusion.

 

[Torquemonster]

Hey Jason - no one has been accusing anyone specifically - there was simply a vague inuendo that we all picked up on but no-one has clarified. If anyone knows anything they've not spilled the beans - other than an implication has been made that a car - alleged to be Mash's car - has had a problem - which some assumed meant it blew up.... but nobody here knows - other than those who know the facts - so the guys have just been wondering what's going on - if you know the facts - you could settle the whole thing for us.

It's not our business I guess - but we are interested, and we are also sure if there is a problem - you've been working hard to resolve it. Engines are like people - sometimes something unexpected goes wrong - it happens.

 

[Jason Heffner]

I feel that it may be unfair to post all of the details until the parties responsible decide whether or not to assume responsibility for their errors. That is a fact that is yet to be determined and in my opinion is the most important one as well.

 

[Torquemonster]

fair enough - anything said could be flamatory to someone. I notice no one has mentioned the possibility of driver error.

 

[SmokinV10]

I have to say that in my opinion the initial post on this thread "Seems" to be painted in a way that is not representative of what really happened. There is a way to tell all the facts but say them in a way that puts a "spin" on the REAL truth. Kind of like testing a bomb. "We had 10 bombs that all had 50 megaton explosions". What was failed to be mentioned was that 20 bombs were dropped total and the expectation was 100 megatons. But of course thats just an analogy and its just my opinion.

 

[Tom Welch]

Smoke,

That avatar of yours is not conducive to this thread. LOL

just a bit of humor amidst the rumors.

 

[RedGTS]

Jason, just to further clarify since you undoubtedly didn't see the initial thread that was pulled, it didn't imply you were at fault. It basically said that the person's 550 sc'd motor had some serious problems and blamed the problems on the tuner who built the motor. Hopefully I sanitized that enough to keep this thread from disappearing too.

 

[Mike Brunton]

I will add that Jason builds fine cars and cares a LOT about quality and craftsmanship. In this case, it is my understanding that Jason's quality and craftsmanship were up to their usual level. Leaving something (or someone) else to be the source of the problem.

The problem, and who is responsible, have not yet been defined - so as Jason says, that is absolutely the most important thing.

I'm sure at some point, the car owner (or it's custodian - who is equally qualified to speak on the matter, IMO) or the other tuners will chime in and clarify what happened and what the resolution will be.

As the saying goes - stuff happens. It's what is done after the "stuff" that seperates the quality from the rest. I hope this matter will be solved soon to the car owner's satisfaction and everyone can be happy and all tuners walk away with good feelings and good PR.

 

[RedSnakeGTS]

and last I heard and read from Mashour's posts regarding the awesome power the car made with the supercharger, everything was running flawlessly.

a lot of things can happen in a months time........

 

[MaxedGTS]

and last I heard and read from Mashour's posts regarding the awesome power the car made with the supercharger, everything was running flawlessly.

a lot of things can happen in a months time........

That's what they say....He was fine one minute and the next he dropped dead .

 

[Larry Macedo]

I would take a look at the #3 rod bearing and journal if it already hasn't been inspected. Anyone owning a higher mileage Viper should do the same.

 

[Moundir]

You know I've been this route before where you have two diff shops working on a car and something goes wrong It may seem like a good idea at first combining the best stroker with the best SC system, but it the really the worst idea in the world. I've been there and I've learned the hard way, cause when shiat goes wrong everyone starts pointing fingers I hope that the two tuners can come together and take care of Mash cause he is the one that is screwed right now.

 

[SmokinV10]

You know I've been this route before where you have two diff shops working on a car and something goes wrong It may seem like a good idea at first combining the best stroker with the best SC system, but it the really the worst idea in the world. I've been there and I've learned the hard way, cause when shiat goes wrong everyone starts pointing fingers I hope that the two tuners can come together and take care of Mash cause he is the one that is screwed right now.

Thats under the assumption that BOTH tuners had something to do with what really happened. What if only one tuner has anything to do with this situation, and the other is just left with the aftermath? Why should the latter have to sacrifice becuase of another tuner's mistake?

 

[Moundir]

Ok I have nothing vested in either side here so here is my unbiased opinion on this situation. This is Mash's post about his car when he first got his #. http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=280171&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all

He was very happy about his #s and how it was tuned on the safe side since he will be taking the car overseas.

Now look at the last 3 post of that thread and you will see that Jason said "Wait until we see what that other cam and blower pulley can do."

From the "outside" it looks like Apex built a solid car that made decent power and ran well. Jason decided to put a diff cam in > now something aint right?? I'm not implying anything here, just the facts. To me I dont see how any tuner in their right mind would warranty a motor that is getting a power adder and that someone else went into to change the cam and god knows what else? Just my opinion here. Now if we can just have the facts from Jason including the pics he was talking about would help fill alot of the questions here. How many times did you go into the engine to change the cam? Also what had happened with the cam you put in? Is it still in? How much boost did you run on that 9.0:1 compression motor? Also what is wrong with the motor right now? Everyone seems to think that it blew up, is that what happened??

 

[Mike Brunton]

Moundir,

Just wait until the whole story comes out... it was absolutely positively NOTHING to do with anything Jason did to the car.

 

[SmokinV10]

Ok I have nothing vested in either side here so here is my unbiased opinion on this situation. This is Mash's post about his car when he first got his #. http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=280171&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all

He was very happy about his #s and how it was tuned on the safe side since he will be taking the car overseas.

Now look at the last 3 post of that thread and you will see that Jason said "Wait until we see what that other cam and blower pulley can do."

From the "outside" it looks like Apex built a solid car that made decent power and ran well. Jason decided to put a diff cam in > now something aint right?? I'm not implying anything here, just the facts. To me I dont see how any tuner in their right mind would warranty a motor that is getting a power adder and that someone else went into to change the cam and god knows what else? Just my opinion here. Now if we can just have the facts from Jason including the pics he was talking about would help fill alot of the questions here. How many times did you go into the engine to change the cam? Also what had happened with the cam you put in? Is it still in? Also what is wrong with the motor right now? Everyone seems to think that it blew up, is that what happened??

See now you are making assumptions LIKE I SAID based on half truths and incomplete facts. How do you know that the cam put in the car originally was usable? How do you know it didnt HAVE TO BE CHANGED? Do you know the reason it had to be changed? NOPE. You sir are making more assumptions than anyone else. How do you know whats wrong with the engine? Like Gary said, it has NOTHING to do with boost. NOTHING. Moreover it doesnt have anything to do with the cam. Im not trying to say who did what and who is at blame, but I AM saying that with the facts you have you are making incorrect assumptions. So before you go off pointing fingers make sure that you have enough information to remove those question marks from your post and then point the finger. It might be pointing somewhere else.

 

[MaxedGTS]

[/QUOTE]


See now you are making assumptions LIKE I SAID based on half truths and incomplete facts. How do you know that the cam put in the car originally was usable? How do you know it didnt HAVE TO BE CHANGED? Do you know the reason it had to be changed? NOPE. You sir are making more assumptions than anyone else. How do you know whats wrong with the engine? Like Gary said, it has NOTHING to do with boost. NOTHING. Moreover it doesnt have anything to do with the cam. Im not trying to say who did what and who is at blame, but I AM saying that with the facts you have you are making incorrect assumptions. So before you go off pointing fingers make sure that you have enough information to remove those question marks from your post and then point the finger. It might be pointing somewhere else.

[/QUOTE]Just like i said before....... let the tuners talk so there wont be any guessing. Why is this thread even here????
Either shiet or get off the ***.

Max

 

[Moundir]

Hey smokin I did say I make no assumptions so calm your a$$ down. All I have done was state general public information that I based my opinions on. I believe I am entitled to one the last time I checked. It seems like you and a few others know the low down so do share. Untill then all we can do is guess and speculate. Btw you can add this to my list of questions if it makes you happy. Why was the cam changed? You see my post was full of questions so that we can understand who is to blame here. I did not point the finger at Jason, at any time so please dont jump the gun.

 

[Tom Welch]

A stupid question..

If Mash is out of the country and his car is here, how could its engine be blown up?

I can't believe that I'm going to say this but I agree with MaxedGTS on this one.

Tom

 

[CHAD]

I agree with Moundir, mixing two tuners is a bad idea. One tuner needs to have the latitude and responsibility of turning a project into a reality, otherwise too often there is more finger pointing than solving going on if there is a problem.

I can't wait to here what happened. But being that this is a public forum, there will probably be much more speculation until the truth is told (or the thread is pulled). So beware Smokin.

Chad