Considering Road Racing

[wow]

I'm considering road racing and other events outside of the 1/4. I currently have a 96 GTS and would like to race this car. However, would it be better to consider an alternative vehicle until my learning curve increases and I become more comfortable in doing so. Does it seem rational to spend 15-20k for a 2nd vehicle where it may cost more than that if something happens to the Viper in one event? I love driving the Viper and want to track it, but I also want to make sure I can drive it daily! What would be the best alternative car to learn in and what would be the cost in doing so? Any thoughts. Thanks.

 

[SylvanSRT]

Use your car and some common sense, build you confidence. Go to a track day w/ good instructors, try our your local PCA(Porsche Club of America). they are very organized and have good in car instruction the local one here does at least 4-5 of these a year. Also try out ViperDays. Road racing is the most fun you can have with your clothes on!!!

 

[JGarrett]

One of the best things one can do is get seat time in the car on the track. Super! Another person about to jump into the most fun thing you can do fully clothed. Congratulations. It's extremely fun, rewarding, challenging and frustrating at times.
Don't mod the car yet other than track pads, SS brake lines, and hi temp brake fluid. Get to a couple of high performance driver education events. The best for the Viper is at Viper Days (www.viperdays.com) where you get Viper specific info and have some of the best Viper drivers around. They're even coming to your neck of the woods at VIR. They have a very safe and controlled environment to learn in as well as great camaraderie. Some of the vendors there can make great recommendations as to what are the best bang for the buck mods to make for you to be competitive in the venue you wish to race in. Bobby Archer Motorsports and Archer Racing are at all the venues. But I can't over emphasize seat time is the most important.
If you have additional time, money etc. then nothing beats a kart for additional seat time and learning. Even F1 guys go karting in the off season to keep sharp.
Getting started without a good plan can cost lots of wasted time and money. I think this approach maximizes your investment in both.
All the best!
Jim

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Definitly track that car. Go to Viper Days. Get comfortable with your Viper. In the future when you start actually racing then seriously consider a dedicated race car. You might be disappointed in anything less than a Viper though.

 

[JWALK35]

There are some reasonably priced gt-1 car on the market,including mine. Consider them not just for the performance but the safety aspect. If you track your street car diffently get a good 5 or 6 point harness. You can't drive with your ass sliding around in that leather seat.

 

[jrkermode]

A dedicated track car will always be better for the track than a dual-purpose car. But, I think you're looking at this deal from the wrong angle.

You're asking 2 questions;
1. Will the car break?
2. Will I wreck?

Unfortunately, nobody can answer those questions for you. Fortunately, the answers don't really matter.

The key question is: Where is the best place to experience a high performance car?

This we can answer; the race track. The answer doesn't depend on car preparation, mods or driver talent. A race track is simply THE safest place to fully experience a high performance car.

Everything about a race track, the road surface, the run-off, the corner workers, the ambulance, is there to ensure your safety.

Is it possible to cook, break or wreck your car? You bet, it happens to someone at every event. But, it almost exclusively afflicts those with the "Checker or Wrecker", "Win or ***" attitude.

So, go to the track, but keep your wits about you (Let that Miata pass!).

The $15-20k wreck you speak of is much much more likely to happen pushing a Viper on the street.

 

[Tomer]

Jim, could you have upgraded the Miata at least to an RX-7?

Tomer

 

[Paul Hawker]

I would suggest you go to a ViperDays event. Lots of other Viper racers to talk to, and they are very free with their advice. You will see the entire range of Vipers at the track, from stock to highly modified.
You can arrange for a experienced Viper pilot to ride with you, and bring you up to speed quickly, and relatively safely.
After experiencing your Viper on the track, in these circumstances, you will be better able to make an informed decision of which way to go.
In my experience, track time at ViperDays is much more than just racing, it enhances the entire Viper experience. (Priceless)

 

[FrankBarba]

You could also attend a NASA event. They have a drivers school which is very good. It also has Viper drivers that are instructors. I on the other hand suggest that you purchase a dedicated track car. I have gone the route that you are thinking of . I had the choice to build either a 96 GTS or a 95RT/10. I decided against the 96 GTS and built my 95RT. Alot of people do not favor racing an RT and might try to talk you out of it. The GTS does have its advantages, but who can argue about a 95RT that has been a Champion both Nationally & Regionally in Viper Days, NASA?

 

[NDW]

I was exactly where you are one year ago. After brakes, shocks, springs, roll bar, 6 points, fire suppression, sway bar links, headers, exhaust, short shifter, etc... (you get the picture) my '99 is now a track car. If I had known about track events, etc... before purchasing my car, I would have bought an already prepared track car initially. But, I had never raced before and the thought of racing never crossed my mind. I have no regrets, the time spent working on the car has been very rewarding and now I have a good idea about what to fix when something needs attention on the car.

To get to your question, take the Viper to the track like others have suggested. Just keep your head and listen to the instructors - you will be just fine. If you become uncomfortable in a driving situation, just slow down and go back to the fundamentals. My experience with the other drivers at Viper Days has been very positive. They are all a great group of people that will do anything they can to help you become faster. Hope to see you at an event.

Newt

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Start with Skip Barber and remember the VCA discount.

Steps:

1. Two Day program
2. Car Control(repeat until mastered)
3. Three Day Racing School
4. Do a few Lapping Days(do a Skip Barber race several)
5. Go to Viper Days and have John Archer prep/inspect your car(brake air defectors, Motul brake fluid, vent power steering pump-add larger oil cooler)

Have fun!

 

[joe117]

You can drive your street Viper on open tracks during various speed events.

Road racing a Viper is a very expensive hobby. Trying to learn to race in a Viper will almost certainly destroy the car.

 

[Mike H]

Wow....Since you are in Baltimore, some local events to get seat time on road courses will definitely help. Driving the street Viper to learn about road racing is definitely a good start. Remember these are High speed Driving events in which you will learn the basics to start a racing program. At these events instuctors will help you learn the racing lines, car control, braking and acceleration thru corners. Check out www.imp-auto.com as they have events at Pocono, Watkins Glen and Limerock. These are in the general area and close for you. Also check out NASA as they run in the area too. Also Viper Days is excellent too as you can run the Challenge series and Skip Thomas has a great program and instructors available,

 

[REDSLED]

It's just a car, take it to the track and drive it like it should be. These cars handle great and are a blast at the track. My car has seen 50+ track days and nothing major has happened to the car. Enjoy the car and leave the Zaino at home with the garage queens

 

[DanLyon]

Of the street cars you can buy, a Viper is probably one of the best/solid cars that will hold up to roadracing.

If you're looking to be a poser, roadracing is probably not what you want to do with the car.

The Skip Barber classes and ViperDays are CHEAP, with ViperDays having a Class perfect for people with street their cars thinking about entering the sport.

 

[XS TORQ]

You can drive your street Viper on open tracks during various speed events.

Road racing a Viper is a very expensive hobby. Trying to learn to race in a Viper will almost certainly destroy the car.

I don't see that at all. You can't race a "stock" car in the wheel to wheel (where you are more likely to rub paint than in the standard "point and pass" classes). I (and MANY others) have tracked their cars, and they still look and run beautifully. Is it possible to hurt your car on the track? Sure it is. Can you do the same thing on the street? IMO, that is even MORE likely.
To each his own!
I am a believer in Viper Days. All the instructors understand Viper handling and torque characteristics, plus you'll meet a bunch of people from the Viper board(s).
My $.02

 

[joe117]

Like I said. you can take your car to various open track events. Drive fast, learn how, have a ball.

That isn't road racing.

You did say that you were thinking of road racing your street driver Viper, right?

If you decide to become a road racer, for the very first time, learning to race wheel to wheel,
I predict that your Viper will not make it through the first season without at least serious body damage.

Get yourself some other kind of car to use while you learn how to roadrace. Work your way up to a Viper in at least one lesser car.

I would also suggest that you use a dedicated race car, not something that you plan to drive on the street.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

LOL I knew Joe would reply to emphasize the difference between "road racing" and "open track events." And he is correct. If you are going to actually do W2W events then be prepared to spend $$$ on your Viper.

But I am under the impression that WOW wants to "open track" his Viper, in which case he should.

Somewhat related question for Joe. What about the Michelin Challenge Series? It's a timed event but not W2W. Sort of like qualifying. Is it ok to call it road racing? Just curious.

 

[Vic]

I saw a neat signature in a person's profile, something like "I refuse to tip-toe carefully through life, only to arrive safely at my death"

If you wanna go wheel to wheel in a series like SCCA T1, it will cost some bucks. But DE weekends will give you a hit off the go-fast crack pipe to last you a couple of months. Ok, maybe I'm lying. I just went out this month, and I wanna go again now! Give me another hit of that stuff! (Take a ****).... Svvvvvsssspppppp! (Hold breath) Yeah, thats it, turn in, late apex, accelerate out to track out, mmmm, thats the stuff....(exhale),....aaahhhhh,....yes indeed!

 

[Jim Hodel]

I also think it's important to make the distinction between track days and real racing. Sorry, if this distinction upsets the track day crowd, but Driver Education events with 'point by' passing rules just are not as extreme as full on SCCA racing.

Running a Viper or any other car in an SCCA race series requires a much greater level of financial and personal committment - you can almost certainly write off the value of the car as an expense, as once it becomes a full on competition car, it's not going back to street car status.

For these reasons, I am satisfied to run track days in a street legal car with some safety items like 4 point roll bar and harnesses. I can run as hard as I want, but not worry about that last bit of agression needed to pass (and be passed) in the turns.

If you want to enjoy your car and drive fast, take your Viper to some track days. That's what I do, and it's a blast. If you want to get into real road racing SCCA style, I'd recommend that you do some research on the various cars and racing classes and buy an all ready prepared lower cost race car to learn in, get your 'rookie' license, and to experience the full flavor of w2w competition.

Jim

 

[GTS Bruce]

Agree with Jim.If you want to road race go spec racer ford in scca as a start.Lots of cars,lots for sale,easy to maintain,real competetion.Used to drive fv and ff.Was thinking about getting back into it and immediately thought about srf.Then I thought again.Didn't want to work that hard in the garage,on the track etc,etc.Decided instead to do some track days in the Viper once in a while for fun.If you want to get serious go scca amateur to start.If you want to have some fun that then go to track days in the Viper with some modest prep.In srf there is traffic up the ***.Could also go circle track in full size car or one of the mini cars like Bender cup(3/4 size of a busch cup car with the same blance and speed) or legends.Now that is really quick and there is traffic UP THE ***! 14 sec laps on a 3/8 mile oval.Hell of a lot of work,nose to tail and side by side for the driver.Local tracks instead of towing for hours.Tried it.Too intense for me.Tried it a few years ago.Gonna be 54 this year.90 deg outside,suit and hat on.Crawling in and out of car.Respectable lap times.I said to wife."I am too old for this ship" "too intense""too much concetration and not enough relaxation and fun" Bruce

 

[joe117]

Chuck,it's a timed event but not racing.

You don't get to call yourself a racer unless you are racing.

 

[joe117]

Chuck,it a timed event but not racing.

You don't get to call yourself a racer unless you are racing.

 

[Jim Hodel]

Another alternative is SCCA Solo I (different from Solo II)which is a full course time trials event run on regular SCCA race weekends The Solo I cars use the same basic race classes, and have practice sessions followed by 4 'official' timed runs in the morning and another 4 timed runs in the afternoon. Lap times for Solo I cars are similar to the lap times for the same class of race group cars.

And Joe, FWIW, I don't call myself a 'racer' I can't tell from your posts whether you are a little bit snobby about the distinction or not, but I didn't meet one driver at the event who seemed to care one way or the other. We were all just out to have fun with our cars.

Jim

 

[GTS Bruce]

Racing is wheel to wheel,person to person.The car must be considered a write off going in.Be it oval or road.One at a time,pass by point-by is not racing.Just a fun Saturday or Sunday afternoon drive where there are no cops to give out tickets.Fine for a Viper.Why waste a Viper on real racing when there are many road race and circle track cars (Busch set up for road racing etc.)out there Unless you have more money than brains.Lots of paid for set up cars out there in busch,scca etc that are cheaper to drive than a Vper. Bruce

 

[joe117]

GTS Bruce seems to agree with me, or I with him, whatever.

I'm not just being anal about a definition with little distinction. Racing is not even close to open track day. The number of people at your open track day, who care about the definition, makes no difference.

The guy who started this said he wanted to go road racing with his street Viper. He said road racing. He didn't say driving school.
This is not unusual, there are a number of people who think they can drive their car to an SCCA race and just get out there and run what you brung.

Chuck asked about the "Michelin Challenge Series". My last, double for some reason, post was in answer to him.

Again, I'm not just being anal about this distinction between tracking and racing.
There are plenty of people who don't know the difference.

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

If I were you, I'd go to Pocono on April 30th. The Ferrari club invited us out. Go to their site. It is a great time and they have instructors to help out. I've been going every year.

Andrew