Cooling Problems...

[Freddog11]

Since I bought my RT/10, I've been concerned about the engine temperature. When I first take it out it will rise to the red zone, stay just short of going into the red, the drop slightly and stay at around 225-230. I tried purging the system several times with some success, actually adding about 1/2 gallon to the system in the process. To be on the safe side, I took the car to the dealership today to get the system flushed and refilled. After a test drive and some shop diagnosis, the tech told me that the thermostat and water pump needed to be replaced. This makes sense to me and explains why its not cooling down as it's not circulating the coolant from the radiator. The bad new is they had to order parts and the car won't be done until Friday. The worse news is the estimated cost is $760. The good news is I'll have a little more confidence driving it around when the temps here get up above 100 (that won't be too long).

Question here is...does this seem like a correct diagnosis? Is the price fair?

 

[dyeguy]

I don't know if the diagnosis is correct but I was quoted around the same for replacing the water pump. Supposedly it's about 4 hours of labor. Honestly though, these cars run hot and I wouldn't be surprised if it still ran hot after replacing the water pump. I'm definitely not an expert but if it wasn't circulating the coolant from the radiator the car would be overheating. Which dealership did you take it to? Alot of hot weather Viper owners have put in an aluminum 3 core radiator which cools alot more efficiently.

 

[Freddog11]

I had to work today so I had the wife take it to Tempe Dodge. I told her beforehand to speak directly to the tech after she got done with the service writer. I told her to relay my concerns and tell him the exact problem before he started working on the car. She has pretty extensive prior dealership work experience so she's pretty good at reading their abilities and seeing through the BS and I was glad to hear her tell me that she felt pretty confident with the guy. I talked to him briefly over the phone and it sounded like he spent some time checking out the problem and was pretty confident that the repair would help the problem. I know these things run hot, and he told me the same, but he also told me that they, and 96 in particular had some problems with the water pumps. Like I said before, my big concern is when it gets hot around here. As you know, the weather has been pretty nice lately, although up and down quite a bit in temps, but when it gets hot and I'm running the AC I'm afraid it's going to overheat. I've got my fingers crossed but we'll see come Friday.

Let me know if you want to hook up some day for a drive. Maybe meet for a burger over at that new In-and-Out on Williams Field and the 202. Its only about 2 miles from my house.

 

[99 R/T 10]

What year is your car? A lot of the 2001s had defective water pumps and would run hot. If your doing the thermostat, I would recommend they install the 180 degree.

 

[ryan94rt10]

when my headgaskets were replaced, i replaced the thermastat too...when i got to the thermastat it was rusted and no good anymore, so if you are running a gen 1 or gen 2 that sat around a lot, there is a good chance the thermastat is bad...by the way it is a very long process to change just the thermastat, it's buried in there, not like a regular car's that you can ususlly change in about 30 minutes...so the price you have there isn't that bad from a viper tech.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

The original thermostat is 195F. It's not all that uncommon to see the temperature gauge in the 230F range because the Gen 1 gauge sending unit is on one end of the block thermostat at the other. Given the many posts about bad sending units and inaccurate gauges, one view of this is to assume that if the car is behaving (not overheating, not puking coolant on the ground, no smell) then it might be normal.

Not to pick on your dealership, but the thermostat and water pump are independent pieces of hardware and don't fail in tandem. If your pump is not leaking, the seals are good. Good seals usually means the antifreeze is in good shape, which would let you initially assume the water pump blades are in good shape. If the pump blades are fine, it will pump fine. There weren't reported pump impeller blades falling off until later years (I think.) Look at the pump when it's taken off. If the blades are corroded, the aluminum block would have also suffered.

In your Gen 2 RT, you would have the Gen 2 frame, but Gen 1 engine? What fan does it have? When I switched my Gen 1 fan (offset with flaps on one side) to the Gen 2 fan (centered with flaps on both sides) it definitely makes a difference in how far or how long the temperature excursions to the high side are. When the AC is on, the radiator fan speed is automatically turned on to high and seems to always cool down the engine (and me.) Is it?

Depending on your annual temperature range, you could also consider using less glycol and more water. 1/3 glycol would be OK, but less than that and the anti-corrosion additive level is too low. You could add the Valvoline concentrate to make up. The "racing coolants" are not necessarily anti-corrosion (they purport to increase cooling, but rust protection is secondary) so don't use those.

Let us know on Friday.

 

[dyeguy]

Let me know if you want to hook up some day for a drive. Maybe meet for a burger over at that new In-and-Out on Williams Field and the 202. Its only about 2 miles from my house.

[/QUOTE]

That sounds like fun. In and Out burger is my favorite.

 

[Freddog11]

Tom, that's a good point, being a Gen "1 1/2" I guess, I don't really know which fan it has. I'm going to assume that its the Gen 1. I'm considering changing the radiator the the 3 core aluminum and would change the fan then if need be. Kind of a funny thing with this car. For the most part, the car is in great shape. Structurally sound, the interior looks like new, the ouside is in great shape, and two mechanics have looked it over, including compression and leak-down tests and said it was in great shape. Remember, I'm Mr Badwrench so I count on the judgement of others for mechanicals. Trouble is, the guy that owned it before me, for about a year, didn't do much maintenance, in fact didn't even know how to open the hood when I looked at it. I've spent some money on all that stuff trying to catch up. Tires, fresh Mobil 1 oil change, fluid changes all around. So when it came time to do the coolant, who knows how long it has been in there. Anyway, at this point I'm at the mercy of the tech and hope I can trust him to some point. I figure if nothing else, the $760 will give me some piece of mind knowing the cooling system is in better shape than when I got it.

 

[GTSPOWERED]

In my 1997 GTS I replaced the factory fan system with one from Summit. I bought a dual fan that pulls 4000 CFM and then made a custom shroud out of black lexan plastic using the old fan unit as a guide then a set of 30 amp relays and water proof marine circuit breakers then to control the temperature set points a controller from Summit. I tied this all into the factory wiring using the factory fan pig tail so the fans can be ran when the AC requires it and as a back up if my system fails. I am now able to keep the temperature around 180 to 190 degrees. I have invested around $600.00.

 

[DDlesk06]

My '95 has been experiencing problems. I called my local dodge dealer and asked if they could "diagnose" the problem. They're charging me $425+ JUST TO LOOK AT THE CAR! This is without any work being done. I simply asked if they could hook it up to the computer and see what's mis-firing, etc.

So for $760 (parts & labor), I would consider it extremely reasonable. IMO based on what I'm being charged to essentially have nothing done

 

[dansauto]

My '95 has been experiencing problems. I called my local dodge dealer and asked if they could "diagnose" the problem. They're charging me $425+ JUST TO LOOK AT THE CAR! This is without any work being done. I simply asked if they could hook it up to the computer and see what's mis-firing, etc.

So for $760 (parts & labor), I would consider it extremely reasonable. IMO based on what I'm being charged to essentially have nothing done

Its a little more complicated than just connecting to a scan tool. Is your check engine lite on? If not then they will not get any codes and must read the actual values of the sensors to understand what is going on. Before you do that check the obviouse (spark plugs and wires) 95% of the time this is why you get a misfire.

 

[big-n-italian]

In my 1997 GTS I replaced the factory fan system with one from Summit. I bought a dual fan that pulls 4000 CFM and then made a custom shroud out of black lexan plastic using the old fan unit as a guide then a set of 30 amp relays and water proof marine circuit breakers then to control the temperature set points a controller from Summit. I tied this all into the factory wiring using the factory fan pig tail so the fans can be ran when the AC requires it and as a back up if my system fails. I am now able to keep the temperature around 180 to 190 degrees. I have invested around $600.00.

got pics?

 

[GTSPOWERED]

It is kind of hard to take pictures with everything assembled But I can list parts names numbers and suppliers first and if then you want pictures I will remove things to get the pictures.

Thermal circuit breakers surface mount - Blue Sea Systems #7109 30amps $50.00each 2 required.

Be cool fan relay harness kit Summit #BCI-75017 $45.95 each 2 required.

Feex-a-lite Adjustable electric fan controler Summit #FLX-31147 $24.88 1 required.

Derale Rad Dual electric fans summit #DER-16928 $199.88 1 Required.

A custom fan shroud from the local plastic company $100.00

 

[Freddog11]

Problem solved!!! I picked it up today, the final bill was $900 including tax and all the other junk. Drove it home and watched the temp guage the whole time. I used to run right on the red, or about 245 degrees. Today, on the way home and about 50 extra test miles later, it stayed pretty steady in the 12 o'clock position, 195 degrees. It rose a little above that one time while sitting in traffic for about ten minutes, but not over 200. I'm happy, whether both items needed to be replaced or not, the problem is solved and my biggest concern with this car is done. I feel like the dealership, Tempe Dodge, treated me fair and fixed the car in a relatively timely manner.

BUT MOST OF ALL I'M EXCITED BECAUSE I GOT MY CAR BACK FOR THE WEEKEND AND THE WEATHER IS GOING TO BE FANTASTIC. SUNNY AND 80 DEGREES.