Dave's Proportioning Valve ISSUES!

[Jance GTS]

Mine did not come with instructions so I need to ask a few questions.

#1. Are you suppose to reuse the stock sensor/harness???

The new PV does NOT have a place to plug it in...

Black sensor to the left.

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#2. My lower brake line fitting is way to big for the new PV. What am I suppose to do?????

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The gold fitting is the new PV, am I suppose to use it with the stock brake line? Here is the fitting, it will not even start into the threads?

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I need to get all of this worked out. I've never had so many issues with a simple bolt on kit before. I haven't had anything go right on this entire BBK BS....

 

[vancouver-gts]

Jance , I think we have an issue about fitting the sensor to the
Wilwood unit. It appears to me that the sensor on the OEM unit have double duty for front and rear cucuits. The Wilwood unit was meant for offroad applications/tracking etc....so they are not Viper specific. You could still add a T fitting for the front curcuit to add the sensor for safety.I'd replace that
female fitting on the Wilwood unit to accomodate the OEM line or cut the flare off the OEM brake line ,find a smaller male and use your new flaring tool .I'm glad my front/rear bias seems pretty good after my BBK install ,so I'm not rushing with the proportioning valve install

 

[Jance GTS]

I guess I will have to remove the fitting from the PV. I have no idea where the brake line will end up on the car since it runs behind the engine...

No clue on the T fitting either. I'm glad someone designed a kit that works without any issues... What amazes me is the Wilwood PV cost $45 from Jegs but with the supplied lines (no need just reuse stock?) and brackets it's about $150-$200 for the kit that doesn't exactly work the way it should.

Surely someone has already ran into this and solved this issue???

 

[RTTTTed]

I'm sorry, but aren't you supposed to merely empty the spring from the stock proportioning valve and use the new PV between the rear brake line and the old P Valve with a short connector line between the new and the old PV?

Or just cut the stock rear brake line and instal the new PV in the line? (Remove the spring in the stock PV).

Ted

 

[Jance GTS]

I'm really not sure at all Ted. Everything has it's place on the new PV. Everything but that bottom fitting and the sensor goes back as if it were stock. You've got me?

 

[RTTTTed]

Once the stock PV spring is removed, fullbrake pressure goes to the rear. The way I used to add an adjustable Pressure Valve was to cut the rear brake line and plumb the new PV into the line. All the new PV does is allow your to set the pressure reduction by hand. Shouldn't matter where it goes in the rear braking system. Put it where you can reach it easily. We used to mount them on the inside of the rocker panel with the handle through a grommet to the inside of the car with a grommet. Wouldn't suggest that with a Viper though.

Something to keep in mind is that there is massive amounts of heat and if you mount it in the engine compartment you should try and mount it away from the header heat and if tracking it EVER, build heat shields around the brake lines and PV or anything near the heat source (headers).

Ted

 

[Sneaky Pete]

It's difficult to believe they are marking up the cost on that Wilwood PV 3 or 4 times, hard to justify for just that bracket! Especially when the fittings they provide dont even match the factory lines!

I'm not a fan of cutting factory brake lines and reflairing them with other fittings... often very little to work with and the damn things often leak if not perfect. I'd look for adapter(s) if at all possible.

 

[Jance GTS]

I'm suprised no one else has ran into this issue with this kit?

 

[GTS Dean]

Buy a different size brass adapter to screw into the outlet side of the Wilwood valve.

The warning light sensor in the stock combination valve is there to notify the driver that a severe pressure imbalance has occurred between the front and rear circuits. It is UPSTREAM of the prop valve. In such an event, there is a spool that is pushed away from the circuit with full remaining pressure. It closes off the passage to the leaking side and stops master cylinder brake fluid loss. This design was mandated by the feds way back somewhere between '67 and '68.

 

[dave6666]

Did you get that from DBB? I was always impressed that the goodies he sold had all the homework of correct fittings etc already worked out. I'd be mad too.

 

[Jance GTS]

Did you get that from DBB? I was always impressed that the goodies he sold had all the homework of correct fittings etc already worked out. I'd be mad too.

Sure did. I've either been waiting on parts or correcting the wrong parts with this kit. I think I started this 2 months ago...

This is never ending and I have to have it back on the road by the end of next week! I will replace the fitting on the PV and I HOPE I can find one that works without any leaks. It would almost be easier to burn this car so no one gets hurt than to HOPE and pray everything works....

 

[Sneaky Pete]

Have you talked with Jon B about this (since it's now his product)? He might not be of much help at this point but hopefully he can get this right so the next guy doesn't have to go through the same BS.

 

[GTS Dean]

The Service Manual lists the thread and fitting size for every brake line connection.

 

[vancouver-gts]

Did you get that from DBB? I was always impressed that the goodies he sold had all the homework of correct fittings etc already worked out. I'd be mad too.

The components of this DBB kit is very good quality.The lack of proper information isn't .When you do a 14" upgrade on a 1999 GTS for all corners , it requires four 14" front rotors with this kit. I've ordered 4 rotors and calipeers off of a 03 Viper and found out that the rotor heights are different between front and rear.So , the front brake installation was a breeze , but had to use my 13" OEM rotors [ same heght as the 03 front rotor ] temporarily for the rear.It would have been simpler to just get two front 14" calipers and rotors and use my 13" front rotors and calipers on the rear with the 13" e-brake kit from IPS but I wanted the cool looks of the 14" all around .By removing the spring from the OEM PV as Ted suggested it probably would have worked perfectly too ,without the issues of the Wilwood unit that's most likely not even legal on the street BTW Ted , the OEM PV doesn't have a heatshield and the plastic sensor fitting seems to be fine unless of course you're removing the factory header shield from the headers.

 

[Jance GTS]

I got the fitting swapped out for $1.50 so I "should" be able to get it installed tonight. I guess I won't worry about the sensor. Will there be a light on at all times now without using the sensor?

 

[RTTTTed]

"It would almost be easier to burn this car so no one gets hurt than to HOPE and pray everything works...."

I'd delete that comment and hope that there's no reason for an insurance claim 'cause that comment would void your insurance (only if you need it of course).

You can always pay a pro to do it for you if it's too much frustration...

If you're not sure then you shouldn't do it. The brakes are the most important part of the car. Make a mistake and there's a good chance you're dead and could possibly kill others.

If you cut the brake line to install the PV then the fittings are the correct size, correct? If you aren't comfortable making double flare fittings then buy the pieces and hire a mechanic to come over and do that flares. It is much easier than relacing the entire brake line to the rear.

As far as the heat shielding goes, street driving would never see high temps, but any tracking would have high temps and going into a corner at max speed with a spongy brake pedal would be a disaster.

Much as I love massive hp, I don't feel comfortable with ordinary brakes in nearly all cars. Without PERFECT brakes high hp would get you killed.

LOL, I like that my 01 GTS will outstop 99.8% of all cars on the planet. When I go ******* the brakes I always look in the rear view mirror to see if someone is going to hit me from behind.

Seriously Jance, don't take any chances. Wish I was there to help you out.

Ted

Ted

 

[RTTTTed]

I got the fitting swapped out for $1.50 so I "should" be able to get it installed tonight. I guess I won't worry about the sensor. Will there be a light on at all times now without using the sensor?

You removed the stock PV/distribtuion block from the rear braking system?

Then Yes, the light will be on unless you hotwire(?) the sensor conector? I believe that your car is now illegal everywhere because you have disabled the brake safety warning system bypassing the safety sensor.

Consider that some places the laws would make any accident you're involved in your fault because of the removal of the safety equipment (since your car is not allowed on the road). Instant tow away because you disabled the safety equipment making the car illegal for the road.

 

[dave6666]

I wouldn't worry about the insults I'm impressed so far that you are capable of doing the job correctly.

 

[RTTTTed]

What insults?

 

[Jance GTS]

Dave, Ted is picking on me, will you tell him to stop! If I want to burn my car it's my own business LOL. I would never burn it, i'm just burnt out on it. The whole reason why I bought this car and I'm doing the work myself is because I got screwed over on my custom truck 5 years in a row by 3 different body shops. It's a really long story and the truck ended up getting damaged by the 3rd body shop, so I gave up and bought my dream car. I had over 30k invested (planned to spend around 70k plus) and now it's worth $500...

I took off the rear line and had it fixed and I just got the PV fitting swapped out. I plan to hire a local brake guy to come and help me bleed the brakes and I will have him check over everything.

I'm just picky, and I smoothed out my suspension and painted it and the sway bars. I'm hoping to have everything ready so all he has to do is bleed the brakes, check it over and be jealous of my Viper LOL jk

I hope he can measure offset because the rim company is waiting on my measurements!

I'd love for you to come and help me Ted, but I'd settle for Dave since he's only about 5 hours away driving 70mph, so he's really about 3 hours away LOL

 

[RTTTTed]

LOL, seriously Jance, never take any chances on the braking system. Our country is so full of bad laws that people don't realize that an accident can be their fault, due to a technicality.

The reason I suggested a PRo is because some of them are stupid (as you seem to know with your truck experience) but most of them are good. If the frustration level gets high, pay for someone to do it so that you can enjoy your car. I started working on my car because of a mechanic that couldn't figure out the firing order on a 318. Then I had a 46(?) GM panel truck backfire and quit. 3 mechanics couldn't figure out what was wrong. New painter had painted 10 cars and the best one had "ONLY 1 RUN" in it. I like working on my cars now and enjoy helping others work on theirs.

Dave, if I was insulting anyone - it was the insurance companies and lawmakers.

 

[Jance GTS]

I agree Ted. Everything I have done has been by the book. It's just frustrating when the parts are wrong and it's nothing that I did.

Since everything that I've gone through with the truck, the words "prfessional" and "reputable" really don't mean much to me anymore. I'm one of the most cautious people so I won't risk anything, everything will be double checked before it hits the road and then double checked once it's back in the garage.

I think Dave's kit is super top notch quality, I just think the instructions could be a little more helpful at some points. I'll see what happens tonight.

 

[Catwood]

I bought one from dave long ago, it bolted right in no issues.

 

[vancouver-gts]

Catwood, I got the same unit for my 99 as Jance's .It does not bolt in without the fitting change and there's no provision for the warning sensor on this Wilwood unit.

 

[Catwood]

ok....granted mine was for a 2000. I'm about to order one from JonB. I'll check into it then. I did have the benefit of being in BBD's neighborhood and he was on speeddial. He's move on and I don't have that number sniff......

 

[JonB]

I was not aware of the ongoing stress in this kit, sorry! When Dave passed, a lot of the practical development knowledge went away. Thats said:

we discovered that the 1997 proportioning Kit stands ALONE. We even had 8 of those '97 flanges in stock, and were not aware of, or we misunderstood the need, sorry. THANKS to those that jumped in and helped. GTS Dean has been monkeying, er, um MODDING these before anyone else. Fact,

As far as the "$45 Wilwood Block" We also sell it, bare, for $39 with a kit. Dave started with that block, and then ads about $85 worth of value-added design plumbing, that he had to buy in lots of ten.

We maintained the same manufacturing house, a VERY knowledgable tech-support for our DBB-PartsRack customers, and THANKS.

 

[vancouver-gts]

Jon , I'm not familiar with the proportioning valve on the 1997 model.Perhaps the older models didn't have brake pressure sensors? . I'll make the s/s lines fit to the OEM block and fit the Wilwood unit so the rear brake bias could be dialed in. I've noticed that the P/V unit has the pressure sensor installed in the block from Jegs . > JEGS Adjustable Proportioning Valve and Distribution Block - JEGS

 

[Jance GTS]

I got my the brakes bleed tonight! Quick question. Before I mess with the PV knob, Do I need to unscrew or screw it in to get the right balance? Thanks!

Sorry it's almost 3am and I'm beat.

 

[Catwood]

On my car with tom's rear calipers, hawk pads, blues in rear, HT10s in the front I was about 1 turn in from all out. On the street with a different pad I added about 1/4 turn. I ran a saw blade on one side to make a line on the knob so I could keep track...yes, getto mod.

For the street the brakes are typically cold when you need them the most...panic stop. I set it up for that....on the track everything needs to come up to temp, including the pads.

I suggest making small changes at a time. And remember the fronts are always at 100%. You are just taking away a small percentage of rear pressure as you trun the knob. I would also suggest putting a heat sock on it and some anti seize on the threads.

 

[GTS Dean]

I'd start with the knob screwed in about 1/3 travel. Go find a quiet industrial street or rural road and keep tightening about 1 turn at a time until you start getting rear lockup, then back off 1/2 turn. Note your fuel level, as it is more prone to lockup with a nearly empty tank than a full one.