Do these valves look normal? Head help?

[Bolt]

My exhaust valves are extremely white. My intake valves are not. The exhaust valves are extremely concaved. My son-in-law said he has seen this on dodge trucks where the exhaust valve gets so hot that the valve changes shape. This is caused by the stem pulling up on the red hot valve. You get the point.
If this is happening, it would make sense why my engine is heating up. The hot gasses can not evacuate the cylinder quick enough due to the exhaust valve timing and lift being way off.

Here is where I can use your help.

This is Supercharged Gen II heads for a 1998 Dodge Viper GTS pushing 7 lbs boost. I'm going to have my heads reworked and I would like some suggestions on what is the best thing to do with upgrading (machining these heads) I’m looking for valve and seat specs as well as any porting tips. Amount of decking? Ect...
Here is some pictures, the valves do not look normal.

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[PaViper]

Wow I have never seen valves look like that.....it definately does not look normal to me, most I have seen were very similar in color, whether they were good or bad

 

[EllowViper]

Normal tulip shaped exhaust valves. Engine looks like it was running pig rich. Stand by for all kinds of "suggestions" regarding your questions however....do some independant research regarding SS valves vs stock/OEM valves. Might surprise you. Very dependant on application.

 

[bluesrt]

take them to the machine shop and have them gone through-get some better valves and guides if available.then figure out if ur running not good at fuel and heat ranges right away upon assembly and start up--

 

[Bolt]

take them to the machine shop and have them gone through-get some better valves and guides if available.then figure out if ur running not good at fuel and heat ranges right away upon assembly and start up--

Good suggestion, Do you have any suggestions on what size valves to put in?

 

[ViperTony]

Greg Good...contact Greg Good. Did I mention to get in touch with Greg Good?

 

[Bolt]

Greg Good...contact Greg Good. Did I mention to get in touch with Greg Good?

Who is Greg good?

 

[plumcrazy]

greg good 713-290-1103

do what he tels ya to do, you can trust him

 

[RTTTTed]

Your valves look normal. My intakes were beige/brown and my intakes were light beige (nearly white) when I pulled the heads last summer.

Your engine is blown? If you're going larger then standard is 2.02" valves and seats. Valves and seats are very expensive and have smaller gains compared to a good camshaft or a few pounds of Boost. Most people just buy already done heads because once the cost of valves, machine work, seats, valves,etc. it's much better to pay a little bit more and know that you got a GOOD job. Many people port heads, but not very many even know that the Gen 2 Viper heads are from the W6 MP 340 race heads.

Ted

 

[RTTTTed]

Here's a pic of my head's combustion chambers when I was porting them last summer. Sorry I couldn't find the pics I took of the Valves.

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Heads have about 20,000 miles on them. Running Roe blower @ 10# with rockers, exhaust, watermeth, etc. Running fat.

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Eshaust port showing how much material COULD be removed. Wanting to keep my mileage (19.7mpgus) I only went to halfway on port *********** because I also kept the stock valves. Smoothing, portmatching and blending makes a big difference (at least when you're not paying for it) and doesn't have too much affect on mileage. I figure 35hp or so instead of 50hp which would have required larger valves and seats.

The Roe blower can use a lot of porting and larger valves because it pushes so much airflow at low rpms. N/a, Paxton and TTs blow like Hell at higher rpms but not much for low end. Larger valves and large ports would lose some torque and mileage.

Ted

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Bolt, the white color on the exhaust valve is from lean part throttle operation. Under a WOT run it would darken up some. The valves are concave from Dodge and look fine from the pic. If you ever suspect you have a tuliped valve, lay a straight edge on the valve tips and then it's pretty obvious which ones are lengthened from stretching.


You have a considerable amount of oil in the chamber. It could be from worn guides, or possibly the rings, or both. When you have the heads disassembled have your shop dial bore gauge the valve to guide clearance.

The first things anyone should do on a set of performance heads are:

1. Bronze valve guides....HONED (not reamed, broached or anything else) for proper clearance.

2. Good competition valve job done by someone that cares. Runout on the seats should be .001" or less. There is a lot of power in a good valve job.

3. Porting. Even an entry level port match and pocket port helps a lot.

On the decking, I would just skim the surface to make it flat. You already have 9.6:1 compression. You could actually stand to lower it some since you have boost. The stock chambers are ~75 cc's. Opening them up to 79 cc's, and removing the bulk of the material on the intake side will improve wet flow and reduce detonation.

The left two pics are of Gen 2 heads I've done. That's a good working chamber design that has had the intake valves unshrouded a good bit. The pic on the right is a really good running Gen 3 head. If you look at the carbon pattern of that chamber you can see that it looks like it was spray painted with carbon. The burn pattern is complete. I cleaned the deck surface before the pic was taken so it is clean there, but was carboned up completely out to the gasket line before cleaning. That is from good wet flow. Compare that to the pic of your stock head. There is visible air/fuel separation, and it typical of a stock head.

If the shop you take your heads to would like my opinion on anything I'd be happy to help you out.

Good luck

 

[gen2lover]

Greg I heard you were the best around so the OP should take your advice!

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Oh...not the best, but trying to do the best I can.

Thanks.

 

[plumcrazy]

nope, greg is the best !!!

 

[Bolt]

Greg,

Thank you for posting up. I really appreciate your openness to share your experiences. I may be taking these heads so a local race shop who cares allot. He has never done Viper heads but has built the fastest turbo car in the US. He asked me to do as much research as possible to make his job easer. I'll be passing your name on to him and your information. I can't thank you enough for the information. It's not that I don't want you to do my heads it's a local thing and this guy treats our local Garage club great.

You recomended 2.02 valves. Would you sugest 1.7 Exhaust valves. Any suggestions on manufacture? Seats?

I am running a Paxton SC. Exhaust flow was questioned. Should I eliminate the cats? Would this help cool the exhaust valves? Do I need to flow the exhaust better?

Bolt

 

[plumcrazy]

get rid of the cats !!!

and listen to greg which it seems you are...good going !

 

[Bolt]

get rid of the cats !!!

and listen to greg which it seems you are...good going !

Consider them history!

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Bolt, have your machinist call Rev Valves at 1-800-398-6348 for the valves. Ask for the Gen 3 length valves. They'll be 2.02" and 1.600", and the length (5.875") is just right so that you can run no shims under a T&D rocker setup.

Yes, you need to work ******* the exhaust ports. It is necessary to have a sonic checker to avoid the water jackets. The short side radius is thin, and there is also a very thin water jacket on the spark plug side of the exhaust port that runs out almost to the header flange. The short side radius on the intake is also thin. So be careful.

Let me know if I can help.

Greg

 

[Bolt]

Bolt, have your machinist call Rev Valves at 1-800-398-6348 for the valves. Ask for the Gen 3 length valves. They'll be 2.02" and 1.600", and the length (5.875") is just right so that you can run no shims under a T&D rocker setup.

Yes, you need to work ******* the exhaust ports. It is necessary to have a sonic checker to avoid the water jackets. The short side radius is thin, and there is also a very thin water jacket on the spark plug side of the exhaust port that runs out almost to the header flange. The short side radius on the intake is also thin. So be careful.

Let me know if I can help.

Greg

They do not have a sonic checker. Greg, you may be getting this job. I left you a phone message. Call me when you are available.

 

[dave6666]

Um what is a sonic checker?

 

[GR8_ASP]

Um what is a sonic checker?

Sound wave device (like SONAR) that allows you to determine the thickness of materials with a known density.

 

[dave6666]

OK thanks. I don't have one of those either. But if Greg Good does then he's the man.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Greg I heard you were the best around so the OP should take your advice!

And he has a website...

Greg Good Racing - Coming Soon

 

[Bolt]

Here is our plan working within my budget. I like this guy. He is realy trying to save me money where ever he can and get me the best bang for my buck.

Work to be done on heads:
Check heads for cracks
Surface heads
Heads to be port matched. For better flow.
Die Grind compustion chamber as needed.
Larger intake and exhaust valves. (suggested Gen III valves since I will be runing stock cam)
Machine seats and insert new larger seats
Hone valve guides not exceeding .001 run out on valves
New high quality valve seals
Gen III rockers
Valve springs as Greg's decision for this application.

More changes I will do:
Total Seal top gapless rings
TNT Ring – top ring
Napier ring – 2nd ring I’ll set the gap to .040
Kinetics head gaskets
Coated rod bearings
Star Vacume pump to elmiminate crank case pressure

Sorry guys, no roller rocker this time. I's just not in the budget


My set up:
1998 Viper GTS
Paxton Super Charger (7 pounds of boost)
Belanger headers
Corsa exhaust
Upgraded aluminum radiator

This thing better screem snake when I am done. I'm tired of seeing all these local LS1 getting close to my HP

 

[plumcrazy]

looks like a good plan

 

[V10TT]

Greg is the man when it comes to Viper heads. I hear he is very good building motors too.

 

[Bolt]

Greg,

They have been shipped!

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[dansauto]

i think you will have an beast when greg gets done with these! I'll bet you get 100Hp extra under boost!