FISHING FOR TIRES

[Gavin]

I am told that the toyo tires that the CC's run in the Speedvision series do not run into a heat cycle problem - rather they will wear out before that can occur.

So for a bloke running open track events and Viper Days - any opinions on these tires for that use? (current theory is Hoosiers last two track days and a practice day - toyo's , the same or will they go two to three weekends - then how is the grip as compared to hoosiers?

Michelin Cup tires - where do they fit into the picture?

Its the old story - want to go fronm running street Michelins to a track tire and looking for the best bang for the buck.

 

[Bob Woodhouse]

Mr. Gavin:
We did a back to back evaluation on Hoosiers vs the Toyo tire at our local track two months ago. The car was my #13 Comp Coupe. Conclusion on grip: Toyo .5 sec a lap quicker on a 2 mile circuit. Pual Mumford and I disagreed on the wear of each brand, I feel the Hoosier can run more laps, he thinks Toyo. Many factors involved when wear is discussed but a rough estimate would be 400 hard miles out of a set, you pick. The tires are quite different so switching back and forth may not be wise. Toyo is smaller dia in the rear and of coarse much narrower in the front. This will effect your set-up. Hoosier has a more linear feel and extremely quick to respond to you. Hope this helps

 

[Gavin]

Thank you Sir
Gavin

 

[DonMc]

guys,
i have no experience with the toyo's but i find the hoosiers really good for about 5 heat cycles, falling off on cycle 6 and 7 and everything above 8 cycles best be practice. i know tire wear differs greatly depending on lots of things including set up and driver but for me this has been pretty consistent across several tracks....i would settle for a little less sticky and a little more heat cycles but as you know i am cheap!!

 

[Frank Parise]

As Bob states, the set up is entirely different (alignment, shock settings, air pressures) for the Toyos, and, the 11-inch front wheels on the CC are too narrow for 335's and too wide for 275's. I believe these are the only choices for the Toyos. At the Road America WCGT event, both the front and rear tires were creeping on my stock CC rims.

I have found the Hoosier VRL slick to fall off steeply after the first two heat cycles, then gradually from the 3rd through 15th heat cycles. I still have rubber left after 15 cycles, but I am giving up 2 seconds per lap by this time on a 2-2.5 mile road course.

In the VRL, many of us use the same set of tires for the two qualifying and 2 race sessions during the weekend. These tires then become practice tires for the next event. The deep pockets are using 2 sets of stickers each weekend (I hope the trophies are worth it).

I am usually replacing a set after 11 or more heat cycles to reduce tire costs and maintain reasonable lap times. Approximate figures: 11 X 20 minutes = 220 minutes = 3.7 hours X 90 MPH = 333 miles. At $1,600 per set, it costs $432 per hour just for tires - OUCH!

 

[Russ Oasis]

My experience is only with the Hoosier VRL's (and a brief encounter with the Compound A's which I won't even mention). I find heat cycles 1+2 great as Bob said. 3-5 are OK but begin to fall off. 5-9 cycles are safe, however, you could never win a race or qualify with tires with that many heat cycles. These tires are definitely expensive. As to whether the trophies are worth it....I guess that's why we race.

 

[Gavin]

Your information validate much of what I am learning about Hoosiers.
I think the question I am looking to get answered is regarding the Toyo tire.
I would run it on Stock size rims (rim sizes that are stock to the Viper) so creeping issue is handled.
Question - Running this tire in Viper Days open track, how many heat cycles can I expect - is it a two day tire then 1/2 day of practice - Purner seemed to suggest it could go longer than that. Remember I'm just running open track events, not looking to be the quickest guy out there rather looking for a grippy tire that is going come with me up the learning curve and do it cheaper than Hoosiers.
Thanks for your input - I'll buy the beer next Viper Days at BW
Gavin

 

[REDSLED]

Gav, you might also want to consider the Kumho Victoracer or the Kumho Ecsta series of tires. They will be alot stickier than the Pilots you are currently running although not as sticky as Hoosiers. However, they will last alot longer than the Hoosiers and are alot less money. Or if you want some really sticky tires at a very competitive price you could always run the scrubbed Good Year slicks that Joe B & I have run for a while. They are faster than the Hoosiers and since they are scrubbed they are significantly less than all other options.

 

[Janni]

Gavin,
Please note that Don, Frank and Russ are all talking about the Hoosier SLICK that is on the Comp Coupe - NOT the DOT tire that the Viper Days GT1 and GT2 cars use.

The DOT tire is good for a max of about 12 heat cycles and it's much more linear. It's pretty reasonable to do 2 races and 2 qualifying stints on a set and then use them as practice tires for the next weekend.

If you are running your GTS, I wouldn't go to a full slick unless you have seriously beefed up your hubs and other suspension items as they put a bunch more stress on the car. The Hoosier DOTs are the "next step" if you will, and are comparable to the Kumho's that folks are talking about, too.

Michelin Cup tires are supposed to be MUCH better on wear - about 2X, without falling off like Hoosier DOTs, but that are not as fast overall. Rumor has it that there will be a new Hoosier out that is supposed to be VERY good for wear....

You know the old daying - "How fast you wanna go? How much you wanna spend?"

 

[Gavin]

THANKS jANNI -I understand that part of the issue - Toyo is also a DOT tire.
Also understand about costs - thats my mission, to find a tire that is the next step up from the Michelin Pilot Sport.

REDSLED - spoke with Purner about the Scrubs - one way to go but I'm with Janni on the issue of the rest of the equipment - so not ready to go in that direction yet.

Seems the Toyo or Michelin Cup tire is the way to go as they fit Viper rims - I am just looking to see if anyone out there might be able to tell me what the wear factor is. - If what Janni says is right, the Cup tire might be good for 8 track days - at $1200 a set thats around $150 a day maybe a little less than that is the rears go a ninth day.
Scrubs are about $100 a day but much harder on bearings etc (understandably quicker)
Thanks for all the input

 

[Bugeater]

What are scrubs? Used slicks? Where do you get them?

 

[pdmracing]

You must SHAVE the toyo's for max life , the same with the Kuhmos's

 

[Gavin]

Question is - once they have been shaved what is the life - how many heat cycles or how many track days
Thanks
Gavin

 

[MtHam ACR]

redsled wrote

you might also want to consider the Kumho Victoracer or the Kumho Ecsta series of tires.

Jonathan, when did they start making these in 335/30/18?
Heaven knows I'd be all over them if I could find them

My two cents is that the Hoosiers RS303 DOT have been a pretty reasonable tire. I corded the fronts on the first set I had due to agressive driving and not watching the wear. I'm still running the rears, I have 4 track days on them Gav, at least 16 heat cycles, and I haven't noticed a big drop off in adheasion. They are probably nearing the end, but I'm going to go another weekend on them at least.

The fronts are a different story, I've got two (Laguna, typically pretty ******* tires) track days on them now and they are still showing the intitial tread pattern across the face of the tire. Keeping the pressures right, not over-driving them, and rotating them seem to do wonders for the wear. I'd be surprized if these didn't go at least 6 track days too.

Eric

 

[VOI9 ASP]

Is it true you can turn in old Hoosiers for a new set directly to Hoosier and not have to pay full price for a new set?

 

[Frank Parise]

Jerry, if you have a brand new set of the "A" compound tires, Hoosier wants them back. They will have UPS deliver a new set of "VRL" compound tires and pick up the A's. Your contact at Hoosier is Jeff Speer at 574-784-3152. They were happy to take mine back. I experienced no problems whatsoever.