XXX BLK
Enthusiast
I have no doubt he will be back sooner than you think and others.......Adrian
Free Jon B
- Thread starter sun diego
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ViperSmith
Enthusiast
It is hilarious a car club has an NDA.
daytonprowler
Enthusiast
Isaac,
Been awhile since we have talked. Hopefully I can explain the difference between the two situations you mention above. The mistreatments you reference above are 180 degrees apart.
1. Then
As you state there were times that some people may have taken offense by my attitude toward people asking questions. At the time I was a Regional President and a few months as a Zone Director, not an excuse, just the facts. The people in "power" then are still the people pulling the strings, up till now.
Simply, at the time it had zero to do with what questions were being asked by those people (I didn't know anything anyway) BUT it had everything to do with a majority of those people making homophobic and hate remarks about me on other websites. And frankly, if any of those people would have told me the sky was blue, I would have called them a liar. It got so bad that some of the Ohio members would monitor the Alley and the Garage for fear that one of them may try to do something to hurt me physically or damage my property. I was even discouraged from bringing my Viper to VOI 12. Why do you think there was a police officer in the room during the election at VOI 12? If I lumped people in that group that didn't feel that way towards me, then I offer my sincere apologizes. And like I stated before, JonB and I are a lot alike, when we get pushed, we push back twice as hard. Sorry, I'm human.
And for the record, about 6 months ago it was JonB and Sam Goldfarb that got my "fans" (as I called them on the other websites) to stop with all the hate remarks and slurs, as it didn't help matters any and that they were not getting their message across. It stopped for the most part after that. And after the Chrysler letter, some of my personal emails to the *** got posted on the Alley. Probably the worst of "my fans", after reading some of those private emails, actually called me and apologized for the way he treated me over the last couple of years.
2. Now
As I stated before, I didn't know what was going on, so I kept my mouth shut. I didn't want to be remembered as the person that blew up the VCA. I didn't have any proof of anything, so I had nothing to tell. So I waited, waited till a few people got enough rope to hang themselves. And when the Chrysler letter got leaked, that was a chance for the whole *** to see some solid evidence that no matter what we had been told, was that SRT/Chrysler was not happy.
johniew398
Enthusiast
Actually, it is hilarious. I have signed dozens of NDA's in my life, mainly because of work with the government and contractors; but for a car club?
But then again we probably don't have a need-to-know.
Ok, Ok, don't attack me please. Just returned from a 60 mile cruise with my wife through some small southwest Missouri towns along the river and bluffs.
Just thought a little levity on a Sunday afternoon was in order.
eucharistos
Enthusiast
wow, this thread continues to amaze 
Wow, Randall. That's quite a mess. Whether or not these "fans" were the entire cause for some of the previous attitude, I'm surely glad to hear some of the offenders people are reaching out to make things right. I have no appetite for that kind of intolerance and bigotry. Looking forward to hearing some detailed updates on how this club will be moving forward with full transparency, reduced (unnecessary) layers, and complete separation from the known offenders and any potential conflict of interest.
96GTS
Enthusiast
The driver's side high flow cat on my GTS was overheating and causing the paint to flake off. I checked locally for a new high flow cat, and for just one it was over $300 so I called JonB. He asked if I had the ceramic or metal, and I told him I didn't know. He looked in his computer and found where a previous owner (Janni) had the ceramic installed, and then explained the difference between the two so I could chose the one that better suited me. This has happened on numerous occasions, and he has saved me from getting the wrong parts each time. He has talked me out of getting something I wanted because he knew the history of my car and told me it wouldn't work (even though it cost him a sale). Jon was a little abrasive the first time I called him, but only because I didn't know the exact part I was looking for. I realized that I was wasting his time by not doing a little more research ahead of time, and probably would have done the same thing had I been in his position. He has been a tremendous help and I will continue to call him first for anything Viper related.
That VCA Forum Staff account was created not so that folks can hide behind it, being anonymous was an unintended benefit. In the past, there was no central way to collect moderation responses to members in one location. Using one account, we can track which threads were modified, which users alerted and what was sent to them. It makes keeping track of the mod activities much easier. That's the one benefit I can see. I do understand, completely, the Grim Reaper thing about the account though.
Access to that account is restricted to me and two moderators. All three of us follow simple guidelines we set out a long time ago. If a post/thread violates the posting policies, the thread is modified/removed and the OP is alerted to this fact along with the reasons why. However, in the past, other moderators using the account didn't always follow this guideline which caused folks a lot of grief. "Threads disappearing" without notice did happen which not only cause frustrations for all involved but also dented the credibility of the moderators here. So we locked down the account.
If a thread.post was removed and you weren't notified please let me know about it. But that shouldn't be the case anymore.
eucharistos
Enthusiast
thanks v-tony for coming from behind the curtain (or never being behind the curtain, as the case may be)
what about threads moved to member's only that did not begin there and were in a public forum for quite some time.....recent specific is the poll thread
thanks v-tony for coming from behind the curtain (or never being behind the curtain, as the case may be)
what about threads moved to member's only that did not begin there and were in a public forum for quite some time.....recent specific is the poll thread
I don't know what happened to that thread but I'll look into it. If it was full of personal attacks, name-calling (I assume it was given the topic) then the mods probably deemed it was too far gone to clean up, closed it and/or moved it to the dumpster. I don't see it in the members' only section so it was probably soft-deleted and the OP should've been notified.
I'm of the belief that if we can communicate how and why the site is moderated the it is, answer those questions and take some feedback it should make for a better experience for everyone. Not so much hiding as it is finding the time to get out here and answer questions, etc.
But folks shouldn't feel as if they will be reprimanded for asking these types of questions of the mods. So long at it stays civil it's a good thing.
HyperViper
Enthusiast
I agree...Thanks Tony and Randall
Timnineside
Enthusiast
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
And for the record, the ONLY reason this is coming to light is because the VCA Forum was so heavily moderated/censored that the letter and all subsequent info about Lee, Chris, Bob C. and others had to be posted on Viperalley. That itself was very wrong. It should never have gotten to that point. Those that tried to shutdown the free speech and the exercise thereof should have no control/moderation powers ever again.
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big-n-italian
Enthusiast
you took the words right out of my mouth.
if i added this quote to my signature, would i have to pay you any royalties?
TowDawg
Enthusiast
"No control/moderation powers ever again"? You're being FAR too nice Mike. They should be expelled/banned/barred from ever having ANYTHING to do with the VCA/VPA or any affiliates ever again.
Barring those things happening (at the very least), I don't think you're ever going to get the members back that quit due to being fed-up with everything. If the bs excuse and graceful "exit" by Lee (including thanking him for his service) is any indication of how things are going to be handled, it's not going to work. These people KNOWINGLY DID WRONG AND DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD to hide it and silence/ban anyone who dared ask a legitimate question that might spark other's interest. They should be ostracized and not just allowed to step down and carry on like nothing ever happened.
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Gustfront
Viper Owner
Speaking of which. I see an account called Viper Club HQ active in this thread. Little green dot shows they are online now.
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads...e-post......?p=3186542&viewfull=1#post3186542
Who runs that account, and/or does the club have control of it.?
johniew398
Enthusiast
thanks v-tony for coming from behind the curtain (or never being behind the curtain, as the case may be)
what about threads moved to member's only that did not begin there and were in a public forum for quite some time.....recent specific is the poll thread
The forum staff PM'd me and said they were deleting it because it had run it's course.
TowDawg
Enthusiast
That sounds a bit odd to me. There was lot of information (with absolutely no rebuttal from the main parties) in that thread. If they were going to do ANYTHING with it, it could have been locked. To delete it just seems like a way to clear a lot of info off the site. And considering basically nothing has happened to address 95% of the issues raised, I would hardly say it had "run it's course". Just my opinion.
The thread is not permanently deleted. It can be restored. I need to find out why it was moved to the dumpster as opposed to keeping up and locked. Looking through it quickly, yes good questions in there but a lot of personal attacks. If it can be cleaned up it may be restored. I'll run it by the board.
eucharistos
Enthusiast
eucharistos
Enthusiast
thanks V-Tony for looking into this recent happening
Bingo, I think this is what people keep forgetting. Each place is its own business with its own benefits and quirks. Another thing that people seem to forget is that VPA is only a Mopar distributor, so they're not really any different than a local dealership (aside from offering better prices a lot of the time). If you want custom or aftermarket stuff that people have dreamed up and made for the Viper you have to go elsewhere. The whole VPA PartsRack competition thing gets old to hear all the time. Woodhouse sells all the same parts and people don't have any issues with them, so I don't see why such a stink has to be raised about other dealers. Everyone knows that PartsRack exists, whether it's on the forums or not. Just Google "Viper parts" and you'll get tons of vendors. It's not like they don't exist if they're not mentioned here.
I have always purchased on the "loyalty" system the guys who have done right by me since I was a kid I give my business to, Jon B is that guy for me, my feeling was always if someone has done MORE then right by you, in fact bent over backwards why go elsewhere? "yeah we was wonderful BUTTT im gonna see if this guy can help me"
Janni
Enthusiast
Hi Randall,
While I appreciate your post, I was a target of your vitriol during the election process. In fact, your candidacy announcement came out as a rousing dis of my candidacy (as in - "I saw the quality of the choices you had, and I HAD to DO SOMETHING". We, Maurice, John, James and myself were deemed "Team JonB" immediately after our announcement - which was totally ironic because I had not spoken to Jon in OVER A YEAR and DIDN'T SPEAK TO HIM until the day before the election because I didn't think it was appropriate. You swore at me during board meetings because I didn't agree with you.
I've never been anything but civil and professional in any of our interactions. I've also asked some of your "fans" to lay off issues that were irrelevant to your ability to run the VCA.
There were plenty of signs that things were not as they seemed. There were plenty of signs that the running of the club at the status quo wasn't cool with Chrysler, and there was certainly plenty of hints that meetings and processes were done in a very aggressive and undemocratic manner.
IMO - that all seemed to be okay as long as you were on the team in power.
I understand your concern for safety when people can be so hateful. No one should have to be concerned for their own welfare and safety because of a car club. Imagine my concern during the VOI board meeting with you swearing at me, Bob Carroll screaming at me to answer his questions like I was a witness, and Bobby C smashing his fists on the table and yelling at me. It was late before we got out of there. I was alone. And I had to drove home by myself (because I had a sick dog and needed to go back and get the car and the husband!) and was in the car until 2:30 AM. But hey- that's okay - make sure there's a cop there for the elections because we somehow conducted ourselves in a manner where folks felt threatened.
Glad to see your eyes have been opened. Just wish it could have been sooner.
While I appreciate your post, I was a target of your vitriol during the election process. In fact, your candidacy announcement came out as a rousing dis of my candidacy (as in - "I saw the quality of the choices you had, and I HAD to DO SOMETHING". We, Maurice, John, James and myself were deemed "Team JonB" immediately after our announcement - which was totally ironic because I had not spoken to Jon in OVER A YEAR and DIDN'T SPEAK TO HIM until the day before the election because I didn't think it was appropriate. You swore at me during board meetings because I didn't agree with you.
I've never been anything but civil and professional in any of our interactions. I've also asked some of your "fans" to lay off issues that were irrelevant to your ability to run the VCA.
There were plenty of signs that things were not as they seemed. There were plenty of signs that the running of the club at the status quo wasn't cool with Chrysler, and there was certainly plenty of hints that meetings and processes were done in a very aggressive and undemocratic manner.
IMO - that all seemed to be okay as long as you were on the team in power.
I understand your concern for safety when people can be so hateful. No one should have to be concerned for their own welfare and safety because of a car club. Imagine my concern during the VOI board meeting with you swearing at me, Bob Carroll screaming at me to answer his questions like I was a witness, and Bobby C smashing his fists on the table and yelling at me. It was late before we got out of there. I was alone. And I had to drove home by myself (because I had a sick dog and needed to go back and get the car and the husband!) and was in the car until 2:30 AM. But hey- that's okay - make sure there's a cop there for the elections because we somehow conducted ourselves in a manner where folks felt threatened.
Glad to see your eyes have been opened. Just wish it could have been sooner.
I find it a little odd that I have known of several of the ongoing issues for a couple of years, yet National officers had no idea or buried their head in the sand. I posed the question on the financials of the VCA after 1 year of it running just o see how the new baby was doing. got sent a PM instead and stated that it keeps the lights on and pays for rent. Why would the National officers not ask these questions and get accurate answers. It looks as if many buried their heads in the sand on these issues.
After all I am just a small fish in the corn belt.
Bruce
After all I am just a small fish in the corn belt.
Bruce
Frank 03SRT
Enthusiast
We hear some support for the VPA, and I am sure there is need for the associated products and parts. BUT, what needs to be thoroughly investigated is how it was set up, was there unfair inside dealing, skimming and favoritism, cooking of books, etc. If any of this or associated actions happened, those involved need to be exposed and appropriate actions taken. We shouldn't condone anything that is not totally aboveboard.
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