Free Jon B

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Gustfront

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Wow,
Looks to me like y'all got some trouble ahead. If the alleged people involved are pulling these kind of stunt's, someone is VERY afraid that something really bad for them is on the verge of discovery. I imagine the members are in for some really closed down threads in the future. Glad I didn't follow the "Time to join the VCA" spams my pm box was inundated with and actually pay money for this.

But hey, looks like Baghdad Bob and Mopar Map will be vying for member of the year. Enjoy

Adios vato's,
Wade
 

TowDawg

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To anyone who isn't aware.

LEE HAS NOT AND WILL NOT RESIGN! In fact, he has now removed from office and banned anyone who has been actually having open discussions with anyone else. This includes Randall, Maurice, and probably Tony by the time I write this. He is cleaning house of anyone and everyone who knows his shady dealings, instead of stepping down like he originally said. NOTHING will be changing at the VCA except the fact that the VCA is OVER. Lee has gone completely rogue and is doing everything possible to shut anyone up who knows anything. The problem is, A LOT of NEW information is flowing on the other Viper sites. After these current moves, you can be 100% sure that there are some really bad things that they cannot afford to have known, and the relationship with Chrysler/SRT is 100% dead (I'm sure they have already been made aware of Lee's latest dictator moves).

I URGE YOU TO CONTACT YOUR LOCAL PRESIDENTS IMMEDIATELY AND GET THE FULL STORY (OF WHAT HAS BEEN RECENTLY DONE) AND TELL THEM THAT YOU 100% EXPECT THEM TO WITHDRAW FROM THE VCA AT THIS VERY MOMENT! There are already additional directors and founding VCA officers resigning and cutting ties (and not with very good language to Lee either).

Please check the other sites and see for yourself. If anyone needs to reach me after this, I go by the same user name on the other sites. Something tells me I will not have access to this site within a few minutes of posting this.
 

ROCKET62

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So where are all of those "voice of reason" members?

Try to have a respectable discussion, agree to disagree, and question anything and get banned.

Very sad to see a "car club" disintegrate like this.
 

ViperGTS

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The decision to separate from VCA should not be hard one for any region with some sense of morals and an interest in doing the right thing for their members. Whatever is lost in the process (Money, parts, etc.,) who cares. A new club can be formed along with their own website if it’s deemed necessary.

First off, all we have ever heard from the leadership of VCA is how the relationship with the manufacturer is what makes the VCA so much different than any other car club. No other manufacturer does what Chrysler does for the VCA. They let us in on advanced product information, offer coupons, offer the Cool Program, get our opinions on new interiors and colors and what the next Viper should be, fund dinners at VOI and supply cars to VOI and Zone Rendezvous, sell viper parts to VPA for scrap value, allow VPA to be a Mopar Dealer, etc., etc., and how we as members of the VCA should feel so very very special that this relationship exists and is SO important. They valued this relationship so much that they made the Presidents and *** members sign conflict of interests and non-disclosure forms.

These same people that valued this manufacturer relationship threw it all away in the interest of keeping their power, not showing the members or *** the “books” and above all keeping John B suspended from the club. Really? Jon B was so important that you destroyed the VCA? These individuals plotted exactly what actions they would take to discredit and get in trouble the very person that saved the Viper and made sure the corporation was doing everything they possibly could to promote the VCA and keep it financially viable. Yes, a document authored by VCA past and present officers spelled out what actions they were going to do to attack Ralph Gilles to “keep him out of VCA business”.

Ralph approached the then VCA leadership before VOI -12 (actually at the Viper Café debut) to say that he was receiving more and more complaints from VCA Presidents about transparency and the lack of communication within the club. He also said the ban on Jon B was childish and was viewed as an attempt to keep the competition away from VPA. So he told them changes were needed to be made.

Their response was to sit down and put a calculated plan of actions to discredit and remove Ralph. This document outlines the very actions they would take. One of the items was to write a letter to Sergio complaining (you have seen this one - Tim Wollesen), another was to write an anonymous letter to Chrysler Special investigations making up claims of bribes and illegal activities done by Ralph along with other devious items. This letter will surface hopefully soon along with the letter of planned actions. What they did was way beyond unethical and only when this was brought into question when the Wollesen letter surfaced did they have to react to say that Tim resigned and to cover up the plan. It’s his warehouse that VPA pays to store the parts. So how can this relationship continue to exist with this individual after this act? In most circles this is known as biting the hand that feeds you… this action alone would have any organization instantly removing all those involved from office. NO true *** that is looking out for the club and members best interests would have this going on for weeks now with no outcome. A simple vote of removal is all that is needed, it’s beyond the point of caring who was or was not involved, they are all OUT! There is no trust in the current leadership or the past for that matter to be involved in ANY ASPECT of the VCA.

Think about it, this leadership in the interest of keeping the books secret, protecting their salaries, and keeping Jon out of the club sat down and plotted to have Ralph removed. UNBELIEVABLE is the only word to describe it and this alone is enough to cause any region to leave VCA. Now this very board is suspending anyone that is attempting to touch their good old boys click. That should speak loudly to the membership! They need to keep their power vote, so anyone not on board will soon be suspended.

Over the past three years at the *** meetings and Presidents meetings a request to review the books has always made. The answer was yes they are open to anyone to view. See us after the meeting, where it has been one excuse after another. “Oh I forgot them”, or “it’s too close to the dinner see me afterwards”. When the pressure got to the boiling point they assign a handpicked “oversight” committee to review them. The summary is all is well. Maybe it is… but why so secret and why would you go to the level of trying to destroy Ralph all in the interest of trying to keep everything secret and Jon B out of the club.

Now the latest Raffle, where no license was applied for plain and simple. Most states require the license number to be written on the ticket and used in advertising. Repeated requests of a simple question of where was the raffle held and licensed still go unanswered. Why no response? If everything is above board why not answer this simple question. The reason there is no answer is once disclosed where it took place, then anyone can look up what the gaming laws in that state and what fines or actions can take place if a raffle is held that is not licensed. So obviously if the raffle was illegal or unlicensed this question will remain unanswered. Depending on state, no license is at least a fine, but in some states it’s a confiscation of the prizes. Tell that to the winner of the Viper that he has to give the car back. Most states require residency status, so it has to be filed either in Michigan home of the registered agent or in MO, where they are headquartered.

For those you that questioned why MCVO did not handle the raffle as in years past the answer is easy. They had an audit with the State of Michigan gaming commission as they have had in the past and they found a number of concerning issues that they wanted addressed in future raffles. Those being identified, MCVO stated to VCA that in order for them to continue to hold the raffles in Michigan under MCVO, these requirements would have to be met. VCA decided to pull the raffle with no explanation. Michigan had very simple requirements, one account where all monies come in and go out of, the other is a complete documentation of individual ticket sales versus Venom packs. Michigan has found out in other raffles held by other organizations that there is a chance for embezzlement of funds when you have different pricing on tickets and quantities. If three people purchased individual tickets at $125 each, for a total of $375 but the books state it was one individual that purchased a 3-pack at $100 each, there could be a pocketing of the extra $75.00. They wanted a clear listing and account balance on the ticket sales.

If anyone thinks the relationship of VCA and Chrysler can be restored to past levels, you’re kidding yourself. Ralph has gotten burned by trying to help out the car club. Anyone that knows the corporate world knows that Auto Manufacturers don’t get involved to the level Chrysler did in car clubs. With what has happened and this embarrassment to all involved a well-kept distance will now be required. They obviously will keep a decent relationship with us for past loyalty of our product purchase with the hope of future purchases. Ralph is not your ordinary Executive; he has a passion for cars and for this car and was willing to do anything to please the Viper Nation. Having now been reprimanded for his actions and involvement, the relationship will be cordial, but no more will he let his guard down only to be punished by his superiors if anything goes wrong.

So any President or board member that can continue to support the current leadership staying in position with the above knowledge has in my view; no morals, is drunk on the Kool-Aid, in denial or somehow is on the payroll. Remember, it was 3 out of the four current officers that ONLY ANNOUNCED their candidacy to run for office less than one week before elections that won, so you know the cancer goes way beyond just the current and past officers.

The only avenue we as members have is to leave and file the lawsuits. This will be in courts for years and they know it. It was an illegal raffle, locking down those funds and no one renewing will immediately put the financial pressures on them. They said they had no funds and needed this past raffle (i.e. Dan the treasurer letter to Presidents). Boycott VPA, and you have them. Membership renewal starts October 1st, no renewals makes them powerless. No part sales will really begin to hurt soon. Vote with your wallets. The individual regions can have a great 2014 and slowly work together to decide the future of a new club. By regions pulling out of VCA, hopefully it pushes the much needed change or leads to a new and better Viper Club.

Being that MCVO is located in Michigan and has close ties to Chrysler, they felt the need to approach Chrysler before a decision was made as not to embarrass them by stating they were thinking about “walking away from VCA”. Chrysler’s response was “RUN”. Enough said!
 

ViperTony

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For those you that questioned why MCVO did not handle the raffle as in years past the answer is easy. They had an audit with the State of Michigan gaming commission as they have had in the past and they found a number of concerning issues that they wanted addressed in future raffles. Those being identified, MCVO stated to VCA that in order for them to continue to hold the raffles in Michigan under MCVO, these requirements would have to be met. VCA decided to pull the raffle with no explanation. Michigan had very simple requirements, one account where all monies come in and go out of, the other is a complete documentation of individual ticket sales versus Venom packs. Michigan has found out in other raffles held by other organizations that there is a chance for embezzlement of funds when you have different pricing on tickets and quantities. If three people purchased individual tickets at $125 each, for a total of $375 but the books state it was one individual that purchased a 3-pack at $100 each, there could be a pocketing of the extra $75.00. They wanted a clear listing and account balance on the ticket sales.

The board was NEVER informed of this. We were told that the MCVO didn't want to run our next (last) raffle but no reason was given. I believe this was stated at the May board meeting. It seems that this issue could've been easily resolved by board action if they knew about it. In fact, no board member I know of has ever heard from a MCVO on any issue they were having with the club. It seems that so much of this could've been easily resolved with proper communication.
 

Chrissss

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To be completely honest I found the guy always rude, arrogant and his items were overpriced. He was nothing more than a drop shipper. With that being said, people should have the option to go or not go with him. I chose wisely to not patronize him. It should be a choice however. Why was he banned in the first place?
 

big-n-italian

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To be completely honest I found the guy always rude, arrogant and his items were overpriced. He was nothing more than a drop shipper. With that being said, people should have the option to go or not go with him. I chose wisely to not patronize him. It should be a choice however. Why was he banned in the first place?


there are other reasons, but i can think of two!

1. he was specifically targeted and was always on the radar of a few high-ranking members who were on a lengthy power trip, and who had a bad history with him.

2. two of those members, who also benefited financially from a competing business, were on a mission to squash their competition in order to line their pockets with a bigger percentage of the profits from their sales.

did jonb also know too much? only time will tell.
 

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Here is a repeat of what I posted back in March 2010, after several years of back and forth with Chris Marshall. Sounds like I could have written in today.

To all my friends in the Motor City Viper Owners and VCA,

I decided a few weeks ago to resign from the VCA ending a relationship that had thrived since 1995. This was the end of a long dispute between me and the VCA national board. The dispute was centered on the openness of the national board and the use of censorship to minimize inquiries and criticism regarding said censorship. The final nail in the coffin occurred on February 18 when the VCA Treasurer Lee Stubberfield, acting as moderator on the VCA web site, publicly identified me as a Chrysler employee, criticized the business decision practices of Chrysler and slandered me as to my position within the corporation.

I will continue to work behind the scenes within MCVO on motorsports activities, as well as attend local events, at least for the foreseeable future. I will no longer attend any event that receives VCA subsidy or is attended by VCA national representatives. If MCVO elects to create an associate membership classification, with dues on par with those passed through to MCVO, I will continue to actively participate in the club long term. Barring that option I will be forced to disassociate myself from a club that I helped build.

Cris and I have enjoyed the friends we have met and friendships that have been forged through our common interest in the Viper. In no way do we think that a disassociation from the VCA will impact those friendships or how the little red sports cars have warmed our hearts. I hope to see you all at future events.

Good Luck and Good Bye VCA,
Ron
 

slysnake

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I remember another president that did these same kind of things.......Nixon!
 

cratica

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Money corrupts and the people that began running the VCA wanted more and more of it so anyone that stands in their way gets banned. It started as people who loved cars wanting to help people who loved cars. Unfortunately, the current leadership are trying to make it their golden parachute. If you speak out against the VCA, you get banned. If you compete in selling similar products, you get banned. If you try to clean up the corruption at the very top (Lee, 1/2 the board, etc) you get fired, etc... The VCA is corrupt and now has a similar reputation in the Viper community that Jon Hennessy had. Sad. Good people, like the original founders need to bring it back to the way its supposed to be. Enthusiasts supporting enthusiasts.

I never cared for Jon B... just don't like rude/grumpy people. But... he was good for the community and should NEVER have been banned since it was really for the sole reason of killing competition to help line Lee's pockets. End of story. Get rid of Lee, bring back Jon B... That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Get rid of Lee, bring back Jon B.... (and Maurice and others that can clean this garbage up)
 

cratica

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Is Lee fom Chicago? Just wondering... I hope he lands in jail as so many things that it seems he and his chronies are doing sound illegal. Going after Ralph? WOW...
 

MoparMap

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For what it's worth, Chrysler has done a full audit of the VCA/VPA deal and found nothing wrong at some point in the past at least (don't know how recent, only heard that it was done). Perhaps someone should ask them for records?
 

dru282

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Lee is from my state of Maryland. Fortunately I never have run into him. He won't be getting any more of my money.
 

eucharistos

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For what it's worth, Chrysler has done a full audit of the VCA/VPA deal and found nothing wrong at some point in the past at least (don't know how recent, only heard that it was done). Perhaps someone should ask them for records?

and you know this how????

oh, "only heard",...... from whom???

:lmao:
 

MoparMap

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I have nothing to gain or lose whether the club stays together or falls apart. I'm just suggesting that if people have a lot of unanswered questioned that they ask Chrysler and see what they have come up with so far.
 

big-n-italian

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I have nothing to gain or lose whether the club stays together or falls apart. I'm just suggesting that if people have a lot of unanswered questioned that they ask Chrysler and see what they have come up with so far.


i might be wrong, but i am guessing Chrysler has better things to do than worry about all this BS.
 

Bobpantax

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From: Lee Stubberfield [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 3:35 PM
To: Lee Stubberfield
Subject: Resignation


To the Board:


I write to you today to report I am resigning as your President effective immediately. I reflect on this with a with a mixture of great pride in the state of our club, and sorrow that we are all embroiled in controversy.


We have a sound financial condition again with a sold out raffle car that provided a quarter of a million dollars. A magazine that that has won countless awards, and a membership service level that we all agree is 5 star, and a parts business that will provide supporting revenue for the club.


Yet today we face countless allegations of various vices in the automotive press. It is said we are at war with Chrysler or that Chrysler is at war with us. It's alleged that somehow having a for profit business owned by a non profit car club is somehow a bad thing. And the leaders of our membership company and o ur for profit are somehow doing something shady. It's alleged our tax returns are wrong.


None of this is true, but this level of journalism, which really is not journalism but blogging has created this picture, with comments from a very few who have issue with the club. As just one example: It is alleged our tax return is wrong because we do not report any chapters. We don't have chapters. All our regions are incorporated in their own states as separate entities and report their own tax returns.


We do have some possible restructuring to do to qualify for the membership money Chrysler would provide to the club for new members who buy the Gen V. This is the issue Chrysler was addressing in their recent letter to our directors. They were not dismissing us, they were telling us to change one thing in our structure to qualify for this program. I might add that we have not received any funds in this way for many years.


Yesterday I had to make some of the most difficult decisions of my life. I removed three Directors and replaced them with more neutral ones. The removals are from both sides of the aisle so to speak. I know these actions will be questioned and criticized. Wait for the facts and the truth to come out. I pledge to you that my only motivation in making these decisions was to leave the Viper Club leadership in the best possible hands to rebuild the leadership in peace.


I'm taking the same action and removing myself so others who are less polarizing can move ahead while protecting the club's assets. And let me make one point clear, I never said I would resign on Friday. I had decided to resign late Monday and had communicated that to the board. That slipped one day to today on the advice of club counsel so there would be no confusion with the dates executive action was taken.


Trust your new leaders. I have worked with this Board for five years, four as your Treasurer during the transition from a Dodge supported club to a financially independent one. Give them some time.


Keep on believing Viper faithful, we will weather this storm as we have others.
 
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