Fun with a 700 RWHP Supra

[PRVT JET]

in street trim. horsepower to horsepower, the viper weighs much less and it will beat any supra. How many times in competition the supra got its butt kicked by the very small engined RX-7.

 

[Achilles99]

in street trim. horsepower to horsepower, the viper weighs much less and it will beat any supra. How many times in competition the supra got its butt kicked by the very small engined RX-7.

Are you saying that a stock Viper will beat a stock Supra? Of course it will... 450hp NA vs 320hp TT

When we start talking about modifications, I really believe it depends on the mods... either car could win.

I can't wait for Martin and Lightspeed to meet. Martin is one of the nicest Viper owners I've ever met (winning AND losing a race). I'm sure all of this talk of @#$ lists will be thrown out the window once the Atlanta crew gets together

 

[PRVT JET]

When I said horspower for horsepower, I mean 450 to 450 or 900 to 900. When a supra gets beat in a race, they always claim they have less horspower or their computer was set on low. When they do win a race, if they do they still say the same thing. I don't get it.

 

[Achilles99]

My favorite thing to say (when I had the Supra and not Viper) used to be, "I spent less money horsepower to horsepower." Oh well, so much for that

 

[lightspeed240]

It really does seem that everyone here is missing my point, and its quite confounding. My only point was that Martin did not race a 700 hp supra...period. My remarks to Martin about %^&*-lists was really in jest (until the insults started flying) and was meant to start some "friendly" competetion since my poor stock daily-driver z06 got ***** by a big nasty viper and I would very much like a chance for a rematch. I didnt really know who Martin was until recently, and it was just ironic that he also raced a friend's car and posted on it.

As for pvt jets remark...I suggest you go look at vehicle curb weights before making a bloated statement like that. My GTS weighs almost exactly what my supra does, and the magazine-disclosed curb weights are within 130 pounds of each other. And I dont know of any stock motor RX7s (hmm, or vipers for that mater) that can run mid-high 9 sec 1/4 mile times like some Supra's have run. Case in point is SW's RSI viper...his stock-motor supra was faster and quicker than his record-setting fully-built motor street viper. Sure, you can stick an ls1 in a RX7 and make it run good, but you can make any hybrid car fast with the right amount of money (I know...I have a fast one of those also.) And yes, you can make a rotary RX7 run fast times, but youll be lucky to get 10 runs out of it before it blows up and you have to rebuild it again.

As much as I really hate to say this, because it applies to my viper as well, but for as much as they cost to build, vipers are not particularly good-performing 1/4 mile cars. For all the power that they make, they dont seem to put down the times that they should. And yes, you can apply that to supras in a lot of cases as well. But take the flip-side of a stock mustang cobra with nothing but a pulley, chip and exhaust (under 2k in mods) that would very likely romp on a smooth-tube/K&N/cat-back viper in a drag race. I know of a lot of head-cam package Z06's that run high 10 sec 1/4 miles on ET streets all day long... Ive even seen head and cam package LS1 camaros romp stock and near stock vipers...not that good of a showing for a 70k plus car I dont think.
And I dont want to get into a money arguement either. A retort that I fully expect is "well, vipers are rare and exotic cars and you have to expect to pay a lot for that." And I totally agree... a stock or built viper is in a completely different "class" than a built supra... Vipers are beautiful, exotic, rare and totally intoxicating to drive, and it has a unique feel that no supra will ever have. But, if youre going to continue to harp on straight-line accelleration numbers, then I suggest some people remove their head from the sand and take a look around at what other cars can put down at the drag strip for less than half the amount of money. And, although my viper may handle better on a skidpad than my supra, my supra has much better brakes stock than a GTS or RT/10 viper will ever have (even with full kits,) along with almost total reliability, some luggage space, and...here is a pet peeve of mine...heat that comes out of the center vents for crying out loud (and not the door sills) In summary...there is more to vipers than just straight-line speed, and even further to this point, there is more to life than drag racing. This is a huge point that most everyone in every car forum I have posted on seems to miss. Except the corvette forum actually...those guys seem to get the point more that most.
Well, now that Ive pissed-off and insulted everyone on here in my first real thread of posts (including my own car LOL,) I do want to *end* this in a positive manner. I dont want to create a supra-viper feud, especially since there are a lot of cross-owner like myself, and others who are just general performance car junkies and like whatever happens to be fast (like myself also.) I am looking forward to meeting the local viper guys sometime to see some of the mods out there. I have had my car for a while now, but I never really considered modding it much (I have another project car that gets all of my $$ attention, up until my new supra purchase that now must be modded.) Most of the guys I have met out-and-about with vipers seem very cool, so Im sure we can all get along.
Just let me know if youre planning to mob me, then ill just hide out at home LOL.
Peace.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Oh lord...Here we go...viper vs Supra round infinity and beyond Alot of what you said aint true...There are a few Vipers putting down alot of hp on the stock block thats comparable to what Supras put down....I dont own a Viper but Ive been lurking here long enough to know that....Also you are comparing a modded Mustang to a stock Viper and this makes sence to you I can spend few grand on a honda and make it beat a stock Supra...Not good for a 40k car, to use your logic...

After reading your posts I dont get why you own a Viper ... Doesnt sound like its the car for you....I'll gladly take that poorly built, mediocre performing, underachieving 1/4 car off your hands...At a discount of course, since it sound like it needs alot of work...

 

[ACELLR8]

lightspeed240,

Yeah, I guess I am missing your point or it does not really make a rats a$$ of differance. Bottom line is if it was a 700 RWHP Supra, it would have still gotten beat by this particular viper, that being Martin's viper.
I am not being a fan, just stating the obvious here. I will agree that the supra motor is probably one of the best motors out there to make big power cheap, as I have several friends I roll with that have Supra's from my former RX7 days.

 

[PRVT JET]

lightspeed, your telling me supras don't blow head gaskets or piston rings which is the same as a rotary blowing an apex seal. Thats not the point, I thought supra fully loaded wheighs 3400-3500lbs. There is alot spraying vipers in the nines with the stock motor. My friends GTS '01 with heads only went 10.4@135. Supra is no god, it an average car that you can make fast. Just like everything else out there.

 

[Supra]

Martin's ~800+ RWHP (estimated on spray) would walk all over a Supra with a 67 MM turbo. To beat a Viper like that with a Supra you'll need a 74 MM turbo or spray.

As an owner of a 98 gts and a 97 supra tt, I have to admit that I am quite torn here. First of all, reflexx's (I know him) car made 700 rwhp with an older setup (sp77)...and on race gas at that. With his new setup, he is estimating much less, and obviously, on pump gas like he was the other night, he admits to being well under 500 rwhp. It would probably be fair to tell the whole story here.
While I hate to get into a "my friend is faster than your friend" type arguement, I seem to recall stories of other races that didnt fair so well. I would very much like to see an Atlanta viper vs supra drag day at commerce or something, but unfortunately until I get my car built ill be relegated to the slow section
I am a new viperclub.org member, but I have to admit that Martin made it on my $%^& list after I got sprayed in my obviously stock z06 (maybe you remember Martin...black Z06 on 85s around N Druid about a year ago.) I thought that was a bit overkill to get sprayed by a heavily modded viper, but hey, run what you brung I guess and I cant complain.
I just orderd my single turbo kit (pt67) for my supra, and I am looking forward to a rematch once I get it setup.
BTW, I would think that saying that supra's are efficient at making power is a bit understated. If 900++ rwhp on a stock 3.0 liter bottom end/head/intake isnt impressive, I dont know what is...
On that note, what is the record viper output on a stock bottom end/heads/intake? The highest I know of is Heffners S/C car, at 850 rwhp or so. Is there a better stock-motor number? But wait...thats still an 8 liter v-10 with a 16k supercharger kit on it... Wow, what if the supra had that type of displacement... 8.0 divided by 3.0 x 850 hp=???? Big number there. Ah the beauty of inline 6's...

 

[Supra]

Actually most of the time people with high HP Supras do themselves a dis-service by running on "pump gas". The most power you can make safely with a properly set up Supra with a large turbo on 91 to 93 octane is ~600 to 650 RWHP (key word being safely). I always run a mix of 101 octane (~12 gallons) and 91 octane (5 gallons) and have the boost cranked on my Supra Luckily I get this 101 octane at the pump ($3.99 a gallon, for those in Arizona the station is at 44th street and Chandler BLVD. in Ahwatukee) at a friend's gas station 15 minutes from my house. But there is a lot of people that do drive their high HP Supras on "low boost" and get caught with their "pants down" when they encounter a beastly car like Martin's.

You are 100% right, given the same HP as a Viper (~3300 pounds) or an RX7 (~2800 pounds) a Supra will be slower (~3500 pounds). Very simple HP to weight ratio. But there are very few RX7's making more than ~400 HP as they are very finicky and hard to keep running properly without blowing up.

Lightspeed, a race is a race is a race. I don't turn my boost down to race a stock Vette. I run them the same way I would a more worthy oponent

When I said horspower for horsepower, I mean 450 to 450 or 900 to 900. When a supra gets beat in a race, they always claim they have less horspower or their computer was set on low. When they do win a race, if they do they still say the same thing. I don't get it.

 

[Supra]

Actually the head gasket and rings are not the weak link on a Supra motor. Even cars that are very improperly tuned and running very lean usually don't blow a head gasket or rings. In fact most of the time with Supra running severely lean to the point they hole a piston the head gasket stays intact as well as the rings (with the exception of the rings on the melted piston of course).

BTW the stock head gaskets on the Supra are so good most people with 1200+ HP race Supras use the stock head gasket.

I do disagree on the Supra being an "average car". Yes the Viper stock is faster, but the Supra is a great performer, especially for a $40K to $50K car.

lightspeed, your telling me supras don't blow head gaskets or piston rings which is the same as a rotary blowing an apex seal. Thats not the point, I thought supra fully loaded wheighs 3400-3500lbs. There is alot spraying vipers in the nines with the stock motor. My friends GTS '01 with heads only went 10.4@135. Supra is no god, it an average car that you can make fast. Just like everything else out there.

 

[Martin D]

I agree Supra, Supras are a great performance car - and really my favorite cars to race....I am always a little nervous when I run into one on the highway.

Achilles, thanks for the props man. I do not have a clue why lightspeed is so defensive. If I would have lost the race, I would have posted that too.

Regards,

 

[BlueGTS]

As a point of clarification, most Supra owners quote there peak numbers on race gas. 9 out of 10 drive on the street with pump gas. The difference between the two is huge. I would say the car you raced put out between 500-540rwhp max.

Supra's are amazing cars, but they can only do so much on pump gas. I am not sure why people quote their race gas numbers when they just got beaten? Shouldn't they give the HP level they are currently running, pump gas etc?

 

[1TONY1]

If I would have lost the race, I would have posted that too.

That's good to know. It will save me time after we race j/k

 

[Supra]

I agree 100%. Win or lose you should state what the car was putting out approximately the way you raced...... And many high HP Supra owners do drive around on pump gas (premium 91 to 93 octane).

Also stating the car made X HP in a previous state of tune (when the car made more power with a larger turbo) is totally irrelavant to the car's current state of tune when the race happened.

Martin, thanks for the compliment, I love Supras and Vipers alike

As a point of clarification, most Supra owners quote there peak numbers on race gas. 9 out of 10 drive on the street with pump gas. The difference between the two is huge. I would say the car you raced put out between 500-540rwhp max.

Supra's are amazing cars, but they can only do so much on pump gas. I am not sure why people quote their race gas numbers when they just got beaten? Shouldn't they give the HP level they are currently running, pump gas etc?