Gen II GTS Fuel Tank Issue

[MikeG]

I have a fuel tank question.

I acquired my 2002 GTS a couple of years ago, and it at the time of purchase, had about 8,000 miles on it. I’ve since added another 10,000 miles bringing the odometer up to 18,000. I usually drive the car about twice a month - sometimes less. It is not a daily driver.

Last Friday I had the car out on the new toll-road, which many of you know has a legal speed limit of 85 mph. It is only about 10 minutes from my front door, so although infrequent, I do on occasion take the Viper out on it. Saturday morning my wife frantically called me out to the attached garage, whereupon I found the car was leaking gasoline. I pulled the car out in the drive, and determined it was a slow leak, and apparently only when the car engine was running. I drove it over to the Dodge Dealership, which was only a few blocks from the house.

Today, the Dodge Dealership notified me that the issue was the gas tank. They explained it was cracked along a seam on top, where it connects to the filler line. They advised Chrysler had informed them there no longer are any new OEM gas tanks available for the Generation II Vipers. They were able to get a line on a used one, that they stated was certifiably guaranteed not to leak. However, to replace the tank, they were going to have to cut out a section of the rear of the car, in order to remove and replace the gas tank. Chrysler was shipping them a factory cutout replacement rear panel to install after the tank was installed.

The whole affair, with parts and labor, will run $2,500.00.

Questions:
1). What would cause the tank (plastic) to crack on top where it attaches to the filler line?
2). Has this happened to anyone else on the forum, and how common an anomaly is this?
3). The RT-10 reportedly already has the panel precut in the rear for removal of the gas tank.
Does it make sense that Dodge would not have also done this for the GTS? They apparently produced an OEM panel for replacement (that is available); but did it as an after-thought instead of doing it at time of production, as they did for the RT-10?
Does this make sense?
4). This is more an after thought than question ..... How lucky am I that the car did not catch fire while I was driving it, or after parked at home, which would have burned the house down too?

Thanks for your time and responses in advance. They are much appreciated.

 

[speedracervr4]

Never heard of it being an issue, thanks for sharing. Please have the dealership take pictures of the tank and location of the crack once it's removed.

 

[MikeG]

I will. And I'll also take my own pictures too. I will post when I have them. An appraiser is supposed to come out next week to view the damage, though I'm not sure this is going to be covered.

 

[Oilman1934]

Had the same issue w/ my 2001 rt it started were the filler neck is pressed into the tank ,Chuck Tator got me a used tank for 350 shipped and about 4 hrs labor . I know the gts is harder to do but 2500$ sounds way to high!

 

[BlueLIGHTNING]

I had issue with getting gas on my 05 Vert which was a pain in the butt, I was told the same thing in order to remove the gas tank they had to cut the car and then put a panel in. I talked to Garrett at Raceway Chrysler who told me there is another solution and that is to drop the rear drivetrain and then lower the tank. Not sure how difficult that is or how much more it would cost but definitely a solution that may be better than cutting the car.

 

[KNG SNKE]

A huge chunk of the rear has to be removed to remove the gas tank on a gts. It was a pain to remove on the salvage cars I pulled apart as well.

 

[Will at RSI]

This is a fairly common issue and seems to be where the filler neck connects to the tank. This is a simple cut and reinstall with the OEM replacement panel. We created a cut template to speed up the process and will normally run $1700 including the cost of a used tank from Paul Scharf.

 

[MikeG]

I guess there was no recall because there are so few of these cars made. None-the-less, it does not make me feel comfortable that gasoline was flowing out and vapors could easily have ignited. It is beginning to appear that this is a known and common theme. Did not know this. I'm now finding myself reconsidering the viability of retaining ownership of this car after it is repaired.

I'd maybe feel better if someone could explain the cause, and what the fix is? Before I have a "Used" tank installed, is there something that could/should be done to prevent this from occurring again?
Is there something that can be done to strengthen the seam at the Filler Neck? Or buffer it, so it won't again crack?

When comments were made that Vipers were dangerous to drive, I always thought they were referring to the fact Gen I and II cars had no computerized stabilization and traction control - something I can to a degree, have direct positive impact on - sort of. But leaking fuel filters; and now cracked fuel tanks - well this takes it to a whole new level. This is becoming both bothersome and tiresome.

This car has never been raced or tracked - just driven to, in, and back from VCA sponsored and similar type events.
So much for Vipers being bullet proof.

The breakdown on repairs is as follows:
Used Fuel Tank: $ 650.00
Closeout Panel: $ 567.00 (Part #: 4848582AA)
Hardware: $ 100.00
Labor: $ 1156.00 (11.8 @ $98.00 an hour)
Misc: $ 15.00
Tax: $ 109.00
Total: $ 2597.00

Does that sound about right?

 

[speedracervr4]

Why would you need a new close out panel?

 

[MikeG]

The close out panel is purported to be needed to replace and cover the rear section that is cut out for removal of the Fuel Tank. It is prefabbed and drilled and is a replacement piece that covers the hole that is made. The RT-10 already has the rear cut out, and a close out panel factory installed. This was one of the things I didn't and still do not understand. If Dodge/Chrysler knew to do this on the RT-10, why didn't they do it on the GTS? This just adds to the labor costs.

 

[speedracervr4]

Ok, saw in the SM that it's held in place by rivets and sealant. It says you can drill out the rivets/remove the sealant and remove the panel.

 

[Tom Sessions]

Ok, saw in the SM that it's held in place by rivets and sealant. It says you can drill out the rivets/remove the sealant and remove the panel.

This is for the R/T model not the GTS.

 

[speedracervr4]

Ok, gottcha. What a sh***y design...

 

[BlueLIGHTNING]

I'm pretty sure this lovely designed has carried on all models include Gen 5. I've spent over well over $10,000 on repairs this spring, motor may be bullet proof but the rest not so much. Had to install a new fuel pump that is a nightmare in itself because fittings are machine installed in the factory and at the shop they have to be done by hand which seems pretty hard. Gen 5 is basically same frame and under structure with new skin and electronics.

 

[MikeG]

For a car with very low mileage and in absolute pristine condition, when first acquired, it is really "Nickle-and-Dimeing" me to death.
I can live with most breakages and repairs, but when a fuel tank cracks for no apparent reason, and this is an apparent known anomaly, it changes my perspective on both the car and on the manufacturer.
I could have been seriously injured or worse, had fuel vapors made contact with the side sills or other hot parts of the undercarriage. Worse, I parked it in the garage not knowing it was leaking, and didn't know until the following morning. These vehicles remain very hot after being driven for a time, after being parked. Again, vapors could have ignited while parked in the garage, and the whole place could have gone up in flames.
The repair costs really aren't the primary issue, so much as is the type of breakdown incurred. I just find it remarkable that there is evidence of Fuel Tanks cracking prior to this happening to me. It is beginning to appear that the Gen II Fuel Tanks are defective, and if this should prove to be the case, then for me personally, this would be unforgivable in a vehicle of this type and cost.
You just don't hear that often of vehicles of any type, having fuel tanks crack, much less a vehicle of this stature. In a collision loss, yes. But crack during routine mundane driving? Unforgivable.

 

[Oilman1934]

I believe it's a issue with 2001-02 caused something is different on those years w/ the evaporater system ,like I said it has happened to me also , my car has 27000 miles, I didn't get as upset as you sound but at the end of the day it is 12 year old Dodge and it's one of those things that happens.

 

[MikeG]

Can you elaborate more on how a change in the evaporator system could/would crack a fuel tank? This sounds interesting.
As for coming across as upset; More disappointed and concerned. I expected more of a Viper product, and also don't want to experience what it was like to die a heretic in the medieval era.

Even with the minimal responses thus far; myself included - there are three examples of this having occurred. All to this particular generation (?).
This isn't like a battery, AC unit, thermostat, fuel pump, et al failing. This is a friggin fuel tank. They are not supposed to fail - ever. There are safety standards for certain components on cars, and this is one of them. I still very much would like to know why / how this happened, and what the fix is. Next time I, and anyone that happens to be in the passenger seat might not be so lucky.

On topic, anyone else know of this type failure to a Viper / any generation Viper?

Thanks.

 

[eucharistos]

this is a scary thread

 

[Greekislandsurf]

I had the same problem with my 2001 RT10. Filled the tank up for the first time about a week after I got it home and started smelling gas in the garage. I did not see any leaks at the time so I thought maybe it was spill-over from filling it to much. I drove it for a while and when I was at about 1/2 a tank the smell went away. It came back when I filled the tank so I knew there was a problem. Took the car to Dan C. in LA and he found a crack in the fill tube just at the neck of the tank, but with mine, someone tried to use an epoxy patch around the neck... Dan found me a used clean tank and replaced it. Maybe a plasic tank was not the best idea for this car....

 

[KNG SNKE]

There are 50+ year old dodges that have not had the same issue

 

[Oilman1934]

I don't want to piss you of actually was trying to make you know your not the only one , when the tank gets out of the car you will see the design flaw is that the neck and the tank are two separate pieces and the were pressed and what I think was heat welded together ,this is where the problem is and why some have this problem and most don't . I would recommend you calling Tator he would explained it better As he repaired mine twice by plastic welding it but that did not work.

 

[FOViper]

There are 2 different designes gas tanks for the gts. One the evap vebts are built into the tank and the other the evap vent is built into the fuel bucket. Just something to be aware of.

 

[MikeG]

This is a fairly common issue and seems to be where the filler neck connects to the tank. This is a simple cut and reinstall with the OEM replacement panel. We created a cut template to speed up the process and will normally run $1700 including the cost of a used tank from Paul Scharf.

Sorry for not responding back sooner.
Can you elaborate more on this being a fairly common issue? Do you mean common issue in cars in general; or a common issue specific to Vipers - and if so - any generation in particular?
Do the Dodge/Chrysler engineers know of it? Have they investigated this issue to any degree - and if they have, what conclusions if any were reached?
This vehicle is going to be repaired, and then I am going to be faced with a decision. Continue to drive it / or swap it out for a similar type car that is not known to have this type of catastrophic failure. As inferred before, I can live with common mechanical failures. Fuel tank failures on the other hand, are something I find more difficult to come to terms with.

Don't mean to belabor this, but this has just got me unsettled, as it is so unexpected. For me, it is like being blindsided with a kick to the stomach.

This car was the "Cat's Meow" for me.
I absolutely love how it looks, and yes, being old school, love how it drives.
Now I'm seeing it in a whole different perspective - kinda like the Boogeyman hiding in the closet.
I can just envision taking it to some VCA or similar type event ... park it ... slowly walk away as onlookers approach, oogle, then goggle ... take in the familiar sound of cameras clicking ... then the demeanor in the distance disturbingly audibly changes ... and upon turning around and looking back ... to my horror, see the car going up in flames. Never mind the fuel leaking beneath the car and where that is now going ..... run Viper GTS admirers, run !!!
I know it sounds funny - but you get the idea. And the idea is not so funny. Crazy as it might seem, these are things I now must contemplate. Life, going forward with the Viper, will now be forever different.

There are no new improved OEM gas tanks. There are no new OEM tanks available, period. That is the dilemma. I can then only surmise, that the used one that is going to be installed, can crack and leak gasoline too. I have no idea how old the used replacement tank that is going to installed is, or if age is even and issue/factor.
Is there a new after market tank that addresses and "Fixes" this issue? (We use "Fix" in Texas the same as "Repair" is used everywhere else).

 

[Bugman Jeff]

I understand your concern, but it is not a "catastrophic failure" and should not turn you away from the car. It's an annoyance more than anything else, irritating, but not a deadly flaw. As far as I know, there are no reports of Vipers spontaneously bursting into flames. If they were rolling death traps, this forum would be filled with "Avoid the 01-02's because they explode." Instead all you ever see are the occasional "oh, mine leaked too, replaced it and problem solved." This isn't the type of thing where it fails and you die. It doesn't suddenly dump 13 gallons of fuel out of the back of the car with no warning. The tank starts to crack and you start smelling gas long before it will even leak enough to drip. Even if it did suddenly start leaking large amounts of fuel, the chances of a fire are very slim. The biggest concern is the possibility of having the replacement tank develop a crack too, and having to do it again. The danger level from this flaw is so low that even the aftermarket, which makes just about everything you could possibly think of adding to a Viper, doesn't have a "fix" for it. They know that the problem is actually quite rare, rare enough that neither Chrysler nor the aftermarket could be troubled to come up with a "solution." I understand your disappointment in having to fix your car, but keep in mind that these aren't Pintos, they don't explode on contact or spontaneously burst into flames. Have the tank replaced, and don't let this annoyance ruin your whole Viper experience

 

[MikeG]

I may have a fix. I have a lead on an aftermarket aluminum fuel cell. I'll know more tomorrow. If it pans out, then problem resolved.

 

[MikeG]

Well, unfortunately, my lead did not pan out. I was hoping to acquire an aluminum fuel cell through Tom Francis of SRT Motorsports. However, upon speaking with him, I learned they never produced an aluminum fuel cell for a Gen 1 / II Viper; only Gen 3 and 4. He did say upon hearing about the gas tank cracking and leaking, that any time there is a fuel leak, there is always a danger of the car catching fire. So it would seem my concerns are not totally unfounded.

I did get answers to one of my questions. After calling around, and speaking to many people in the industry, the repair costs quoted me, are not only in line, but actually on the low side.
So, I'm going to proceed this coming week with getting the car repaired. After that, I don't know. It is something I'm going to have to mull over.
I belong to the local VCA club, so I will at least have friends with whom I can talk, and with whom I'm sure will have my best interests.

Maybe the "Fix" is for me and my wife to acquire and wear fire retardant professional racing suits, every time we take the Viper out; (LOL).

On a more serious note, I sincerely hope no one else incurs this issue going further.

And to all who responded, yes even those with sarcasm, thank you. Your interest regarding this matter was very much appreciated.

 

[Oilman1934]

You could have one custom made, I know my friend had one for his Merc made.

 

[JETSTAR]

I am surprised there is no racing fuel cell for this car with all the Viperdays race cars you would think that someone made them

 

[WDW MKR]

Who did you speak with to determine this $2500 bill is on the low side? Looks like Will @ RSI charges nearly $1000 less, all-inclusive. Labor prices certainly vary by location and it looks like you're paying a good bit more for a used tank than places like Scharf charge, but that's still a chunk of change.

 

[Fatboy 18]

I am surprised there is no racing fuel cell for this car with all the Viperdays race cars you would think that someone made them

There are race tanks available, but these are placed in the trunk area where the spare wheel would sit, so its not a direct replacement for the OEM fuel tank.

I'm sure a good fabricator could make one up to fit. But with anything like this, cost would be a factor!