GEN II modified to compete with GEN IV ACR

[NI-KA]

I was hoping to hear from GEN II owners that have built a GEN II that is competing toe to toe with the GEN IV ACR or are currently developing their cars for this.

I have heard there are GEN II owners that have spent time and money to make this a reality.

I am currently weighing my options with my GEN II and would like to hear from others with greater experience.

 

[BlknBlu]

Compete where? dragstrip, mile run, autocross, track

Bruce

 

[plumcrazy]

yeah, more info needed.

if you want a gen4 that bad, buy one. an 08 is cheap enough these days

 

[NI-KA]

"Compete" at the Track.

I don't want a GEN IV that bad and I am not ready and may not be interested in full blown toe to toe racing..... yet. Besides GEN IIs are even cheaper and with some decent mods already on them.

There are things in the GEN II that are not part of the later GENs. This is neither bad or good. I happen to like some of them.

Im regards to "making" the GEN II competitive to a GEN IV. I guess my interest is just a variation on building a car into a super hot TT of SC.
Part of it is my nature to build things and if your going to build something you better have a goal in mind.

If this turns out to be a reasonable direction I just don't want to recreate what others have already mastered.

 

[Russ M]

All it takes in money, the more you spend the faster you are. Makes no difference if you are in a viper or a civic.

 

[NI-KA]

Current set-up includes:
1997 GTS
Polished and Ported heads
Stop Tech 6-piston brakes
Smooth tubes
Billet steering rack bushings (old were failing)
B/M short shifter
Woodhouse Motor and tranny mounts (existing had begun to fail)
Belangers
T&D Roller rockers
Oil Catch Can
Cat delete
Corsa Exhaust
Upgraded Cam
Front Tow hook
TeamTech Harnesses
3.7 rear (need to verify manufacturer of the differential)
VEC 2
2" seat drop
Lowering Spring caps with Eibach springs
18"/19" GEN IV 6-spokes

Thinking about:
no particular order
Safety gear - Hans, suit, gloves, shoes, fire extinguisher...
Heat shield for the headers-nothing there now
18" wheels and track rubber all around (will tow car to track)
The GEN IV Aero package
Upgraded Oil Pan
Upgraded Dampers and Springs
Transmission bracket
Quaife Differential
SCT controller
Partial Roll Cage (so I can keep the car streetable; Mostly interested in side impact protection, like I said not ready for full blown racing + if my wife can't ride in it on the street she won't be happy)
And included in the above some good drivers training at the track! Got to work on the weakest link.

Hope that is enough info. There are alot of things that can be done but is there any hope that a modded GEN II can keep up with the GEN IV ACR?

Keep in mind I am not talking about full blown racing here where you have to have a blue printed built engine per se with a sequential shifter, etc.

 

[GTS Bruce]

Looks like you have everything you need except for a track alignment and stiffened oem shocks. As far as aero goes last year I added autoform daytona front fascia with splitter,rear diffuser and lemans wing. Yep they do work and a lot of fitment is required. So you end up with a faster car that is far better looking than a gen 3-4. GTS Bruce

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Any car can be modified to compete with any car. How much money you got?

 

[3SRTsandGTS]

Add the safety gear! Belts and HANS are critical! Then, connect with Mark and Nate Stokey, who are in OH as well. In fact, their Gen II race cars are for sale, and this might be attractive to you. Call John Archer of Archer Racing regardless of your approach. Finally, be prepared for most to suggest buying a Gen III or IV. I thought of traveling the road you suggest, but bought my T1 car instead because it proved cheaper. Good luck regardless of the path you choose!

 

[97snk]

What benefit does the modified oil pan give you?

 

[NI-KA]

Prevention of oil starvation on high G stopping, acceleration and cornering.

 

[DaveGF]

Ditto on safety gear first. Also, do the oil pan for sure before hitting the track with race rubber. Depending on your intentions, Lexan can take a bunch of pooly positioned weight off the car. I understand how you are thinking as I have done what you describe. My Gen II is faster than my ACR-X. Was it worth it on any rational level? NO. But I sure do love that car!

 

[DrumrBoy]

Any car can be modified to compete with any car. How much money you got?

Roger that.

If you want to go head to head with an ACRX with a Gen 2 (on a road course) you'll need alot of money (drivers being equal).

Lots of stiffening, lots of adjustable shock/suspension mods, brake mods, cooling systems (trans/diff)....the list can get pretty long.

However, one can usually keep a Gen 2 in a much lower class than an ACRX which enables you to compete with similar cars without having to go after a much newer purpose-built racecar. All depends on what you want to do.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Having run a GT1 GTS in years past , I would say that by the time you get it up to ACR speed you could have bought an ACR. Just the old case of technology advancing. TT or SCs are not really track mods , in my opinion, they flat get too hot and heat soak is super common with Superchargers. The extra funds spent there , definitely make just getting an ACR even more reasonable.

Best of luck , either way.

 

[GTS Bruce]

Ok. So you want to do a few laps now and then, have fun at a track day and keep up or what? Need to add: Sticky tires,modified oil pan,gen 2 acr oil filter adaptor,street/track alignment. Want to go real racing on a road course? $$$$ Pick up a used fully modified,prepped used race car,spares,tow rig,trailer. Why not a bullet proof used busch cup road race car? Corvette race car(sorry) cheaper to run and $ for $ faster. Watch out. Dont end up with a barely streetable viper that is way expensive and not that much fun to drive anymore. GTS Bruce

 

[Twister]

isnt an acr or acrx just 540-575 rwhp...I mean a head cam package is pretty proven at this point for that kinda power on gen2's...

As far as the brakes/stiffening ect..All kinds of mods you can do..GTS is only what..3440 pounds to start so really your not to bad of a start point..

Good luck..GTS's look sweet but I personally prefer the srt style as well as added performance out of the box on tracks..

To each there own and there is nothing sweeter than watching a 1996 desighned GTS viper eat alive new lambos/ferraris/GTR's ect. on a race track. They dont make cars that look like that anymore..And shows just how potent the origional desighn was

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

If I had the scratch I'd get an ACR-X and run the Viper Cup. Since I don't I'm looking into the Historics.

 

[Next Phase]

PM Redfang (Stuart)... he has a highly modified Gen II that he races at VIR and a closer to stock Gen IV ACR. With all the money he has into the Gen II, it still can't compete with the Gen IV.

 

[DaveGF]

It will be essentially impossible to compete with a new ACR with a reasonably streetable Gen II. Track-only it can be done. Bill P is correct - stay away from SC and turbos for track use. What you are proposing leads to a very slippery and expensive slope. If you choose to slide down that slope, look me up, I'm at the bottom.

 

[3SRTsandGTS]

I just heard from a respectable source that there is a GEN II running 2:00 flat at VIR routinely. I also understand the mods are minimal. Sure, the driver might be world class, but it can be done. By the way, 2:00 is faster than half the ACR-X field from this past year. For what its worth, on the same track, I am faster in my T1 car than ACR-X.

 

[Russ M]

Anyone saying that its going to be very expensive and difficult to achieve has a few things to learn about what makes cars faster.

Equivalent in power or even more is easy, Stryker heads on an otherwise totally bone stock gen 2 motor will give you more power than a gen iv.

The big stop tech brakes will give you equivalent or better brakes.

Updated shocks/springs will give you equal or better suspension.

Wings/splitters etc for down force.

And last but not least equal or better tires/wheels will give you the grip you lack.

Assuming you are not interested in a pure track car that is. Cause if you are extreme weight reduction/slicks/etc can make you much faster.

PS. Don't forget the nut behind the wheel, its the most important mod you can have.

 

[shooter_t1]

I'm sure I saw a post by GTS-R 001 about ACR/Orca type aero for Gen 2 cars that he makes.


The fastest car at the last Viper race at Texas World Speedway was a Gen 2. Made the Comp Coupes look like they were going backwards. I think he was 6 seconds faster a lap. BIG $ though.

 

[plumcrazy]

but that same guy in a CC or ACR is faster than that i bet

 

[shooter_t1]

but that same guy in a CC or ACR is faster than that i bet

Actually I don't think so Plum. Looking back, that car was done to Orca spec or something. Had a sequential gearbox, Motec, so on..Dude was from Dallas, his name escapes me. I have some video somewhere that I'll post when I find it.

 

[Kala]

Sequential gear box will always be faster than an H pattern...

Last I heard this car is for sale... Twin SC I have no idea what it would take to set it up for road course, or if that would be intelligent to do with this particular car.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRr-bifIkHk[/media]

 

[Boxer12]

2 flat at VIR is fast in a GTS, but Kuno Wittmer did a 1:54 at VIR in an ACR-X in July in wicked heat. I believe there was a 1:53 at VRL races earlier in July by Ryan Schmisk, but the session was DQ'd so it isn't official. The ACR, however, is not a race car so of course you can build a GTS-R that will beat it with major mods to the drivetrain, suspension, weight reduction, etc. At the end of the day, you will spend a lot more than what it costs to buy an ACR-X, and it will not be as fast on most courses. At VIR, there are three long sections where power is king.

 

[97snk]

Sequential gear box will always be faster than an H pattern...

Last I heard this car is for sale... Twin SC I have no idea what it would take to set it up for road course, or if that would be intelligent to do with this particular car.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRr-bifIkHk[/media]

Are those 20' ccw?

 

[DrumrBoy]

Anyone saying that its going to be very expensive and difficult to achieve has a few things to learn about what makes cars faster.

Equivalent in power or even more is easy, Stryker heads on an otherwise totally bone stock gen 2 motor will give you more power than a gen iv.

The big stop tech brakes will give you equivalent or better brakes.

Updated shocks/springs will give you equal or better suspension.

Wings/splitters etc for down force.

And last but not least equal or better tires/wheels will give you the grip you lack.

Assuming you are not interested in a pure track car that is. Cause if you are extreme weight reduction/slicks/etc can make you much faster.

PS. Don't forget the nut behind the wheel, its the most important mod you can have.

You can't do all that with a cage for under 5 figs.....

 

[ViperTony]

Stryker heads on an otherwise totally bone stock gen 2 motor will give you more power than a gen iv. $7,500

The big stop tech brakes will give you equivalent or better brakes. $6,500

Updated shocks/springs will give you equal or better suspension. $3,500

Wings/splitters etc for down force. $4,000

And last but not least equal or better tires/wheels will give you the grip you lack. $3,500

Assuming you are not interested in a pure track car that is. Cause if you are extreme weight reduction/slicks/etc can make you much faster.

Estimates don't include labor costs. I estimate $25K for the upgrades noted above. But would also need some tuning...figure an SCT Tuner/Software package at $800. Plus a some time on the dyno, figure 3 hours @$125/hr. $375. Add 6pt harnesses, $750 plus installation.

All of the above can be done within 5 figures, but is it worth it in order to compete with an ACR? This list of mods is a DIY'rs dream though.

 

[plumcrazy]

Stryker heads on an otherwise totally bone stock gen 2 motor will give you more power than a gen iv. $7,500

The big stop tech brakes will give you equivalent or better brakes. $6,500

Updated shocks/springs will give you equal or better suspension. $3,500

Wings/splitters etc for down force. $4,000

And last but not least equal or better tires/wheels will give you the grip you lack. $3,500

Assuming you are not interested in a pure track car that is. Cause if you are extreme weight reduction/slicks/etc can make you much faster.

Estimates don't include labor costs. I estimate $25K for the upgrades noted above. But would also need some tuning...figure an SCT Tuner/Software package at $800. Plus a some time on the dyno, figure 3 hours @$125/hr. $375. Add 6pt harnesses, $750 plus installation.

All of the above can be done within 5 figures, but is it worth it in order to compete with an ACR? This list of mods is a DIY'rs dream though.

the above ($26925) plus a ~ 33000 gen2 = $59925 if my math is right. that is the price of a gen4 ACR

pretty sure i have seen a few sell for that price