Gen V ACR Needed For Ring Time

[Newport Viper]

The Ring record will be out of reach by the time the ACR (if ever) comes out. The McLaren P1 will put it out of reach. McLaren has sold more of those (@$1.15M) then Viper has sold Gen V's. I'm sure SRT will go for volume of track records no need to ever focus on the Ring again. Put the energy elsewhere. Just best the next Vette PLEASE.

PS I have driven the Ring. Put it on your bucket list before they turn it into condos and a couple of golf courses....

was there when they where testing the Mercedes SLS.... good day

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[Boxer12]

Will the Gen IV ACR be the last "GREAT" (dominant in its time) Viper?

 

[VENOM V]

Will the Gen IV ACR be the last "GREAT" (dominant in its time) Viper?

I think the days of ********** are over, so yes I think the Gen IV ACR will go down in history as one of the most successful track cars ever built. It still holds the track record at all of the tracks that I drive, except for Laguna Seca where the TA reigns.

However, as you point out, plenty of track records to be set. As long as the Gen V ACR remains competitive in this new era of big bucks supercars, that's a feat in itself. Chevy will be coming with a damned good C7 performance variant, and the Europeans and Japanese will surely rebound after letting the Vettes and Vipers own track records for the last few years. It's a great time to be a car guy.

 

[VENOM V]

Damn I would love to drive the Ring. I recently met a couple that just moved from Great Britain. They've both driven their Viper and other cars at the Ring. Amazing experience I bet.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Will the Gen IV ACR be the last "GREAT" (dominant in its time) Viper?

I believe that this may be the case. Unless, despite the poor a sales, Fiat grants SRT the budget for Ralph's "radical" G5 ACR. One can only hope at this time. That's the only type of ACR that has a prayer of running with or beating the Euro hypercars around the Nurbergring.

However, a G4 style budget ACR would still get the job done against the non-hypercars IMHO. The non-hypers still haven't beaten the G4's record on most tracks so its obvious that a G5 with the G4 style ACR treatment can still be very relevant in this high-tech era.

 

[Boxer12]

I sure would like to take one (G5) on a flyer around my local track (High Plains) and see if I can break my Own record!

 

[Allan]

I sure would like to take one (G5) on a flyer around my local track (High Plains) and see if I can break my Own record!

Well, SRT blasted High Plains with a 1.57ish lap. (track pack car I think)
Aren't you at 1.54 / 1.55 or something like that in your modded ACR?

I'll bet the TA car would be close to 1.51 - 1.53 with a good driver.

It would be cool if they would let Viper track rats have some kind of expo day.
Porsche does.
I was at HPR once, and they had more than a dozen P-cars lined up for such an event the following day.
They let current owners and prospective buyers road test those things on the track.
Attendance was by invitation only.

......They had one of those at PPIR not too long ago as well.
One of my track buddies got an invite, he used to drive a 911, now he's a Lotus guy.
He said they lap with a pace car going real slow, but they encourage you to drive whatever cars you like.

 

[bluestreak]

No doubt, if you buy aftermarket parts there is a bit extra due diligence involved and I am not promoting anything, but everyone waiting for the new ACR and nobody really doing anything extraordinary at the track is holdin the Viper rep back...just sayin somebody needs to step up to the plate. One record is not enough. Someone take a T/A, or put suspension, aero and tires on your Gen V, and go break some records!

Nobody was setting any privateer records the first couple of years it was out. The biggest thing was the one lap of America with Chris Winkler driving. Can't remember which year. And this was the ACR, not the non-ACR Gen IV which is we have a non ACR Gen V here. The Gen IV wasn't blowing any minds on the race track prior to the release of the ACR either.

Seems like you place unrealistic expectations on SRT and the owners. Your track records were not set within a few months of the release of the non acr Gen IV.

Keep that in mind.

Well, SRT blasted High Plains with a 1.57ish lap. (track pack car I think)
Aren't you at 1.54 / 1.55 or something like that in your modded ACR?

I'll bet the TA car would be close to 1.51 - 1.53 with a good driver.

It would be cool if they would let Viper track rats have some kind of expo day.
Porsche does.
I was at HPR once, and they had more than a dozen P-cars lined up for such an event the following day.
They let current owners and prospective buyers road test those things on the track.
Attendance was by invitation only.

......They had one of those at PPIR not too long ago as well.
One of my track buddies got an invite, he used to drive a 911, now he's a Lotus guy.
He said they lap with a pace car going real slow, but they encourage you to drive whatever cars you like.

I don't know about 6 or 7 seconds over the engineer, he wasn't all that bad. But with Farnbacher or Whitmer of Pobst, maybe on the low end of that at a 2-4 seconds yes. And that's bone stock. Maybe 51's on A6's or slicks though.

 

[Allan]

A bone stock ZR1 ran a 1.53 at HPR last summer.

It was a student's car............the instructor was driving.


The Viper TA with the right driver, should be able to get under that without race rubber.
Hoosiers should get it down to 1.51's easily I would think.

 

[bluestreak]

Wow, really? Then I stand corrected if that is really the case. Sounds like some high 1:40's on A6's with a pro driver and like you said, low 1:50's bone stock.

Any videos of the instructors lap?

 

[Allan]

No video.
I got told this by the track manager when I asked him about the SRT deal. That was a week or two after SRT was there.

I was asking him about the 'production car record', and then he told me about the ZR1.
Then he explained that HPR doesn't have a bunch of different category laptime records. -because of too many uncontrolled variables.
No way to prove how 'stock' or 'showroom' a car is. -tires, brakes, tune, cam, exhaust, stripped weight, whatever.

He did know the ZR1 was a stock unmodified car, because he knows the owner and the instructor pretty well.
They weren't trying for any record or even any recognition for any kind of time. Just lapping and having a class.

HPR has only two official lap records. One for 2 wheels, and one for 4 wheels.
I think the 4 wheel record is somewhere around 1.41 and change.
Some open wheel / F-1 kind of car I think.

 

[Boxer12]

I have done 1.53's at HPR, but not official. It was a winter open track day with well used Hoosier DOT rubber. The official record 1.55 was in mid-day July heat again with well used Hoosier DOT rubber. 40's are clearly possible.

I knocked 5 seconds off my best time at Mid-Ohio the first time out in my ACR..so I don't know why guys aren't setting fast times in the G5 if the car is capable of it. If you are going from a G4 ACR to a G5, you should be faster if the car is faster (assuming you are on the same rubber).

So, it would be awesome to be able to take any G5 for some flying laps! That would be the best measure for me.

Why isn't SRT at Sebring (NARRA finals) this weekend with a G5? That's a track with some established times in all categories of sportscar. Kuno is usually there for these events...he could do some flyers that would show everyone what the car can do!

 

[VENOM V]

I have done 1.53's at HPR, but not official. It was a winter open track day with well used Hoosier DOT rubber. The official record 1.55 was in mid-day July heat again with well used Hoosier DOT rubber. 40's are clearly possible.

I knocked 5 seconds off my best time at Mid-Ohio the first time out in my ACR..so I don't know why guys aren't setting fast times in the G5 if the car is capable of it. If you are going from a G4 ACR to a G5, you should be faster if the car is faster (assuming you are on the same rubber).

So, it would be awesome to be able to take any G5 for some flying laps! That would be the best measure for me.

Why isn't SRT at Sebring (NARRA finals) this weekend with a G5? That's a track with some established times in all categories of sportscar. Kuno is usually there for these events...he could do some flyers that would show everyone what the car can do!

It's a shame we are in different states, I'd let you see how fast you could drive my Gen V.

We should get this idea to SRT. I think the easiest way logistically would be to take a TA to select cities that they do an SRT Experience, and have a hot shoe there to try to set an official track record at key tracks. The TA comes in on the same trailer as the other Vipers.

 

[Boxer12]

VenomV, that's a generous offer! It's a long trip across the Rockies but I would gladly invite you out to Denver for a weekend of fun! We could swap cars.

When SRT brought a car out here for the 'record' run, I think it was under cloak of darkness...I don't think they want 'customers' driving their cars hard. I was thinking about a "Jeff Gordon" style test drive...LOL

 

[VENOM V]

VenomV, that's a generous offer! It's a long trip across the Rockies but I would gladly invite you out to Denver for a weekend of fun! We could swap cars.

When SRT brought a car out here for the 'record' run, I think it was under cloak of darkness...I don't think they want 'customers' driving their cars hard. I was thinking about a "Jeff Gordon" style test drive...LOL

I wonder if a VOA would ever be held in Denver? I'd make the drive! Vegas and Spring Mountain are strong possibilities, ever driven there?

I just watched that Gordon vid with my kids, they were laughing their asses off. Too funny, I wonder if it was real.

 

[BigDawg]

SRT can build a street legal version of the GT3-R for under 200k. I'm convinced. There are a lot items that will carry over from the production car and a lot of race systems that won't be included. It can be done. It also doesn't have to be quite as radical as the GT3-R, just somewhere in between.

 

[Boxer12]

VenomV, I have never been to either of those tracks but I hear great things about the Spring Mountain facility.

BigDawg, the #1 thing from the Gt3-R and GTS-R imo is the tranny, and while we can't expect the X-trac 6 sp sequential, at least a DCT with proper gearing and mapping would make a huge difference. That would be pretty 'radical' from a Viper perspective, no? The question is, would it require recertification to change the tranny (which I understand is cost prohibitive)...?

 

[ViperSmith]

I wonder what peoples feelings would be if SRT came out with a manual ACR at $150k and had an option for a $60k DCT transmission

 

[VENOM V]

I wonder what peoples feelings would be if SRT came out with a manual ACR at $150k and had an option for a $60k DCT transmission

I think that's the way to do it. I'd go for the manual personally. Not sure if your price is at a level that people would go for, but I like that approach. Make a basic ACR for a lower price, but offer options to allow them to option it up to conquer track records. For me, the price has to be reasonable enough or I wouldn't track it much. I'd personally buy the base manual model with minimal options and have fun with it.

 

[Boxer12]

The TA already stickers at $140k, so another $10k in options for an ACR? I don't see SRT adding much for $10k, maybe just a rear wing and front splitter. Don't you guys think the SRT track pack qualifies as 'base' track option car, with the upgrade being the TA? Let the new ACR 'Rule Them All'...price be damned even if they only build 50 cars. It needs to get the job done. jmo

 

[VENOM V]

The TA is only $120k, so if the ACR were $150 or $160k base, that'd be $30-40k to play with. Maybe you could get Gen IV like aero, adjustable suspension and a level 1 brake upgrade. That would be the budget ACR that could if damage to most if the competition. Then go big with options from there- transmission, CCBs, maybe active aero, Etc.

 

[Boxer12]

Sorry, I got my shipment of fav (Cal) wine yesterday and my mind is a little fuzzy....LOL. thanks for correction, that sounds more plausable for ACR style upgrades, for sure, but not quite 'radical'.

 

[bluestreak]

Doubt they would need an extra 30-40 k to make the Gen V ACR dominant. The Gen IV ACR was barely more expensive at all.

Add Motion Control Coilovers to stabilize the ride, put some big downforce on it, reduce weight, add Trofeo R or MPSC and.....

Game over!

Heck you could do without the big aero if you did the rest to the TA IMO.

 

[Boxer12]

Doubt they would need an extra 30-40 k to make the Gen V ACR dominant. The Gen IV ACR was barely more expensive at all.

Add Motion Control Coilovers to stabilize the ride, put some big downforce on it, reduce weight, add Trofeo R or MPSC and.....

Game over!

Heck you could do without the big aero if you did the rest to the TA IMO.

Why would that car be faster than an ACR-X on full slicks?

 

[bluestreak]

Why would that car be faster than an ACR-X on full slicks?

A far better question is why would it need to be and who is that gong to benefit? The answers are it doesn't and pretty much no one.

Plus it makes zero financial sense to build a model guaranteed to lose money based on volume limit alone.

The car i describe with much less money invested in more setup time at the ring is certainly capable of low 7:00 times. They just need a few drivers, 3-4 cars and a couple of months to test it.

 

[Boxer12]

OK, I'll bite. 1) Why would it need to be? To re-establish the Viper as the world-class ultimate track weapon it needs to retake the record (high 6's); otherwise, it is just another fast car, which is where it stands right now (which doesn't cut it with most Viper faithful).
2) Who is going to benefit? SRT and all G5 and future Viper owners. jmo

 

[bluestreak]

G5 owners benefit from ring times? I don't see any appreciable benefit to that. SRT will find a much bigger benefit winning USCR, FIA GT etc. and building a world class program to support the Viper and other SRT vehicles. Go and build/buy/rent a shop at the ring and keep SRT cars there testing year round. Deliver the car with ring times in hand. Work smarter, not harder.

Heck SRT didn't even put together the ring test for the Gen IV. Give the engineers and drivers more time at the ring and the Gen IV is well under 7:10 and the ACR-X under 7:00. I believe such has been stated by them anyways.

At the end of the day, SRT needs to build the program supporting the Viper and not just hand an increasingly inept population of drivers a nuclear warhead for the street. That's money that will continue to bring returns vs dumping a bunch of money into developing a 200k limited production (of the already limited production) Viper. Take a Gen 5 and put what I said on it, give the guys a couple of months, and it will come back with the record, and not break the bank needlessly.

 

[Boxer12]

There are some world class dealerships that give world class support to the Viper, they are sponsors here. You just don't have that on every corner, because of the low sales volume. If Vipers were selling like 911's, then the dealership network would blossom. I guess we shall see if the new 918 and/or Nismo Ring records do anything to boost sales for their brands... you have to admit it has generated a ton of attention in the car community, with many more enthusiasts knowing who has the Ring record than who won LeMans or ALMS GT this year. What generated more press for the Viper, the Ring record or the Viper Cup?

I agree that a win at LeMans would help sell cars, but I also think a Ring record, based on development of the ACR would benefit G5 owners more than a race program that barely translates to the road cars (eg., GTS-R and GT3-R). That's the benefit of using the Ring for development. I think the Viper got a big shot in the arm from the Ring record (kudos to VCA and ViperExchange)...it put the Viper back in the discussion when American supercars were being discussed (not just FGT or ZR1). Now, if SRT or MOPAR was putting out parts from the race cars that could be fitted to an SRT then that would make the effort much more worthwhile. I feel the Viper Cup was worthwhile from the perspective of development of the ACR-X which parts could be fitted to the ACR. I don't know if a new X is in the works, there were barely any takers for the Cup Championship this year...even with SRT spotting the entry fee. Do you think more than a handful of diehards know (or really care) who won the Viper Cup? The Ring record is the big prize nowadays...it's a new world. I suspect Ralph gets it. Fiat and SRT need to get on board. Maybe you agree, and just think it can be had with a lot less than I suspect it will take. I think SRT should bring all they can to the game. Cars are developing out of this race that nobody imagined five years ago.

 

[TrackAire]

OK, I'll bite. 1) Why would it need to be? To re-establish the Viper as the world-class ultimate track weapon it needs to retake the record (high 6's); otherwise, it is just another fast car, which is where it stands right now (which doesn't cut it with most Viper faithful).
2) Who is going to benefit? SRT and all G5 and future Viper owners. jmo

The only reason I bought my Gen 4 over a ZO6, ZR1, etc was because of the strong 2008 Ring record time. I knew there was more left in the car after watching that video. I don't need to have a car with a Ring record, the Ring record (or more importantly the Ring time) tells me the car has good "bones". There are very few cars that can run full out like that and not overheat the brakes, heat soak the motor, fry the oil, have the trans or rear end overheat, etc. I knew that I would be tracking my car. With the Ring times that the Viper can produce, I know that I will not immediately be wanting more car after I buy it since the car is above my driving ability as it comes from the factory.

Around the world, the Ring times are to an auto enthusiast what the Super Bowl is to us in football or the World Cup is to Brazilians in soccer.....it matters in ways that cannot be measured financially.

There are only a handful of cars in the world that can go all out in the summer heat for 10 laps at Laguna Seca and not spill their guts or require you to drastically slow down. The Viper is one of those few cars.

George

 

[bluestreak]

There are some world class dealerships that give world class support to the Viper, they are sponsors here. You just don't have that on every corner, because of the low sales volume. If Vipers were selling like 911's, then the dealership network would blossom. I guess we shall see if the new 918 and/or Nismo Ring records do anything to boost sales for their brands... you have to admit it has generated a ton of attention in the car community, with many more enthusiasts knowing who has the Ring record than who won LeMans or ALMS GT this year. What generated more press for the Viper, the Ring record or the Viper Cup?

I agree that a win at LeMans would help sell cars, but I also think a Ring record, based on development of the ACR would benefit G5 owners more than a race program that barely translates to the road cars (eg., GTS-R and GT3-R). That's the benefit of using the Ring for development. I think the Viper got a big shot in the arm from the Ring record (kudos to VCA and ViperExchange)...it put the Viper back in the discussion when American supercars were being discussed (not just FGT or ZR1). Now, if SRT or MOPAR was putting out parts from the race cars that could be fitted to an SRT then that would make the effort much more worthwhile. I feel the Viper Cup was worthwhile from the perspective of development of the ACR-X which parts could be fitted to the ACR. I don't know if a new X is in the works, there were barely any takers for the Cup Championship this year...even with SRT spotting the entry fee. Do you think more than a handful of diehards know (or really care) who won the Viper Cup? The Ring record is the big prize nowadays...it's a new world. I suspect Ralph gets it. Fiat and SRT need to get on board. Maybe you agree, and just think it can be had with a lot less than I suspect it will take. I think SRT should bring all they can to the game. Cars are developing out of this race that nobody imagined five years ago.

I think we would both be guessing to say which is more important, but would probably agree that they do in fact work together.

My point is one of diminishing return on investment. How much more does your impractical, unobtanium for most, all out Viper do for the brand at a 6:59 than my slightly less impractical and more obtainable and in line ACR at 140k with a 6:04 lap time? I think pretty much nothing as most people are not going to buy a 200k Viper to begin with let alone one made specifically for the track. Part of the reason the Gen IV ACR was so spectacular was it's costs. You couldn't find anything remotely as fast for anywhere near the same money.

When I say support, I'm not talking just about dealership support, but money invested in constant incremental improvements. Similar to Nissan and Porsche, which boost sales regularly. Regularly keeping the car in the eyes of customers with rumors of faster ring times, less drag, more power or DF etc. OR even a new track setup from SRT, customized track setups for owners at tracks based on the testing and lap records they achieve. All of that costs money too.

I want the Viper to stay practical so people will actually drive it at the track. At 200k, that doesn't happen very often at all, there will just more garage queens.