Gen V ACR Needed For Ring Time

[bluestreak]

Here's my view. I'm more of an intermediate driver rather than a pro, but I am an avid tracker:

I'm personally happy with either transmission, and I believe that you don't need a DCT auto to take the Ring record. I think that it may help, but it's contribution would be smaller than other factors such as better tires, big active aero, brakes, and who knows what else.

But the reality is that a large number of candidate Viper owners are already driving DCT trannies, and if SRT wants to capture that market segment, then they need to get one in the car. That said, there may or may not be budget for it, and there may be issues getting one to fit in the Viper as some have pointed out. I'd personally opt for the stick shift, especially of a DCT is a pricey option.

Either way, I'd buy an ACR in the future. But people like my friend Mike who has owned Ferraris, a Lambo and a Porsche Cup Car want the DCT. He drove my Viper at Laguna Seca a few weeks ago, and absolutely loved it. He said without question he'd buy one if it had a DCT. His case may be more unique than others, he has a knee that gets aggravated from clutching, although he can heel-toe with the best of them.

To me it's less of an issue of taking track records. To drive sales, the Viper needs a DCT I believe. Not a crappy slush-box auto like what's on the C7 (Mike drove one on track and said nooooo waaaaay). A true high performance auto like a DCT.

Well said!

Need it be said that comparing shift times between a Porsche Cup car and a TR6060 is a little funny don't you think? The stick shift Porsche cars can be shifted like lightning, so PDK wouldn't offer the same edge, but against a TR6060 a PDK would be worth measurable gains around a big track like the Ring IMO. THe TR6060 has come a long way since the 1st T56 but it is still a long way from the GTR or Porsche Cup car shift speeds even in good hands. The GTR punches well above its weight in good part due to the fact it loses very little acceleration during a shift compared to a Viper which has to monster back with raw power what it loses each shift. It might only be hundreths of a second in expert hands per shift but that adds up

Good points.

 

[Boxer12]

Enuf said about the DCT v stick speed ..just watch.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid2396788845001?bckey=AQ~~,AAABT5d6l7E~,AsGGRJC nt99DTKOfz2_-qyfE155qqNBV&bctid=2888512977001

http://youtu.be/TVZvJ80muYk

 

[VENOM V]

Damn, that makes me want to hit the track!!! I just want SRT to make the ACR, with or without a kick ass auto. Gotta take it up a notch from the TA.

 

[bluestreak]

Enuf said about the DCT v stick speed ..just watch.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid2396788845001?bckey=AQ~~,AAABT5d6l7E~,AsGGRJC nt99DTKOfz2_-qyfE155qqNBV&bctid=2888512977001

http://youtu.be/TVZvJ80muYk

I'll raise you one........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wkTuLjkY70

 

[ACR steve]

Funny I guess the top race engineers have it all wrong and the pro drivers that can drive faster and not worry about a clutch or taking their hands of the wheel have it wrong as well. If you don’t get that saving tiny segments of time adds up at the end of a lap you just don’t get racing.

Can’t wait to get some pointers from you at the track………..maybe you can show me how doing things not as efficiently will save me time per lap (NARRA has an event at the Glen you may like)

 

[Boxer12]

Actually, as talented as Lee Keen is with the stick he is still noticeably slower than even a magazine editor in the new GT3 (click on the link above the GTS-R video to watch a 60 yr old dude put Keen to shame with the shifter)... and anyone who knows Porsche knows they don't go backwards in technology..every generation is faster than the last so I expect the same from the new GT3. Some 991 GT3 lap times will silence this debate.

PS-Maybe that's why Keen ended up P#28 in the driver's standings in ALMS this year..he was rowing?

 

[bluestreak]

Funny I guess the top race engineers have it all wrong and the pro drivers that can drive faster and not worry about a clutch or taking their hands of the wheel have it wrong as well. If you don’t get that saving tiny segments of time adds up at the end of a lap you just don’t get racing.

Can’t wait to get some pointers from you at the track………..maybe you can show me how doing things not as efficiently will save me time per lap (NARRA has an event at the Glen you may like)

Ok dude, I have had about enough of your condescending tone. I gave you a chance to do your homework, you clearly did not. Im in the SE. I'll meet you about half way at the NARRA VIR event in June next year and let's see who knows how to drive.... Bring a TT1 legal car with all the sequentials you want. I will row gears, and we will see who wins.

Deal?

Actually, as talented as Lee Keen is with the stick he is still noticeably slower than even a magazine editor in the new GT3 (click on the link above the GTS-R video to watch a 60 yr old dude put Keen to shame with the shifter)... and anyone who knows Porsche knows they don't go backwards in technology..every generation is faster than the last so I expect the same from the new GT3. Some 991 GT3 lap times will silence this debate.

PS-Maybe that's why Keen ended up P#28 in the driver's standings in ALMS this year..he was rowing?

You are dreaming, without data you are just still living in lala land with no data to back it up. Sorry, the eye test does not suffice.

Leh is a multi time Grand Am Champions, ALMS GTC Champion, 24 hr Nurburgring podium finisher, has tons of lap records with multiple organizations everywhere and will quickly embarass you in your ACR at a multitude of tracks in a wide array of street cars (on street tires), and then get in your car and embarrass you.

Meanwhile your times at Miller Motorsports park are slower than a lot of cars in a class below you.

Now, what were you saying about Leh again?

 

[VENOM V]

Holy cow guys, 120+ posts now, LOL. We need to go out and blow off some steam on the track together, then continue this friendly banter over a pitcher of beer.

 

[Boxer12]

Blue (as in Vette) streak, the ques is not whether Leh is faster than me (I would hope so), but whether the same car with a DCT (or PDK) is faster than the 6 speed version of the same car, all else being equal...

Porsche representative Holger Eckhardt about the 2014 GT3: "“As early as the 996 GT3 talks had already begun about why the GT3 was still using a manual gearbox when better, faster technology existed,” Eckhardt said. It has been decades since top-level racecars have used a traditional manual transmission so a PDK does seem like the natural step. Some will argue that the GT3 should be Porsche’s driver’s car

You must be registered for see images attach

, but according to Matthias Muller, Porsche AG’s CEO, the GT3 is the ultimate distillation of Porsche’s DNA, which obviously focuses on GT Racing as much as road cars. The GT3 should be the ultimate transfer of race car to road car..."

Venom V, as far as this conversation being too long winded, what else do we have to talk about that gets the blood pumping and taps the emotions? Beer sounds great though! So does a grudgematch at some racetrack! We don't see enough of that kind of shenanigans anymore!! The boys and I at Mid-O used to get plenty plastered on Friday night, make some bold accusations and bravado talk then go out the next day and burn some rubber! That was fun stuff! In those days, the GT3 was a force on the track to be reckoned with, and I hope the new PDK puts them back up with the front runners (Vipers and Vettes). It makes things a lot more fun when there is lots of competition. I hope the Viper ACR can join the competition at the Ring in 2014!

 

[bushido]

Holy cow guys, 120+ posts now, LOL. We need to go out and blow off some steam on the track together, then continue this friendly banter over a pitcher of beer.

Lol what he said..

 

[REDSLED]

We need to go out and blow off some steam on the track together, then continue this friendly banter over a pitcher of beer.

Next Sunday after Buttonwillow Venom V. I'll buy the first round

 

[bluestreak]

Blue (as in Vette) streak, the ques is not whether Leh is faster than me (I would hope so), but whether the same car with a DCT (or PDK) is faster than the 6 speed version of the same car, all else being equal...

Porsche representative Holger Eckhardt about the 2014 GT3: "“As early as the 996 GT3 talks had already begun about why the GT3 was still using a manual gearbox when better, faster technology existed,” Eckhardt said. It has been decades since top-level racecars have used a traditional manual transmission so a PDK does seem like the natural step. Some will argue that the GT3 should be Porsche’s driver’s car

You must be registered for see images attach

, but according to Matthias Muller, Porsche AG’s CEO, the GT3 is the ultimate distillation of Porsche’s DNA, which obviously focuses on GT Racing as much as road cars. The GT3 should be the ultimate transfer of race car to road car..."

Venom V, as far as this conversation being too long winded, what else do we have to talk about that gets the blood pumping and taps the emotions? Beer sounds great though! So does a grudgematch at some racetrack! We don't see enough of that kind of shenanigans anymore!! The boys and I at Mid-O used to get plenty plastered on Friday night, make some bold accusations and bravado talk then go out the next day and burn some rubber! That was fun stuff! In those days, the GT3 was a force on the track to be reckoned with, and I hope the new PDK puts them back up with the front runners (Vipers and Vettes). It makes things a lot more fun when there is lots of competition. I hope the Viper ACR can join the competition at the Ring in 2014!

Funny you should mention that. Surely you know manufacturers are not immune to gimmicks, advertising and propaganda.

The 996 GT3 shared about 80% parts with the 996 Cup
The 997 GT3 shared like 20 or 30% parts.
The 991 GT3 shares almost nothing.

If anything, people are getting far less of a race car from Porsche when they buy a GT3. The motor is no longer a race proven motor that's run in multiple race series in the most popular race car in the world. Street cars get faux centerlocks that cost a fortune to replace yet are nothing like the race centerlocks and have proven hazardous to people who actually track their cars. They are heavier than 5 lugs, and take more time to change. Both completely defeating the purpose. GT3 centerlocks are for show. The 991 GT3 also have all wheel steering so the back wheels steer when you turn the wheel. NEVER on a cup car. In fact, Porsche has forbidden slicks from being put on the 991 GT3.

What kind of race car for the street bans slicks from being put on the car? A stock 997 GT3 RS ran the 24 hr of nurburgring on slicks, now you can't even use them.

And finally a mechanical sequential has nothing in common with a PDK, so it's more faux racing so they can act like people are buying a race car and sell them a car whose cenerlock wheels may fly off at the track, or can't run slicks.

NOTHING TO DO WITH RACING. It's faux propaganda advertising.

BTW Leh drove with an Ferrari team in ALMS this year that had an uncompetitive privateer car setup/team. Leh has proven his merit. But you don't win against factory level competition unless you have similar support.

 

[VENOM V]

Venom V, as far as this conversation being too long winded, what else do we have to talk about that gets the blood pumping and taps the emotions? Beer sounds great though! So does a grudgematch at some racetrack! We don't see enough of that kind of shenanigans anymore!! The boys and I at Mid-O used to get plenty plastered on Friday night, make some bold accusations and bravado talk then go out the next day and burn some rubber! That was fun stuff! In those days, the GT3 was a force on the track to be reckoned with, and I hope the new PDK puts them back up with the front runners (Vipers and Vettes). It makes things a lot more fun when there is lots of competition. I hope the Viper ACR can join the competition at the Ring in 2014!

Amen brother Boxer. And truth is, it's entertaining to read this thread. As long as no one blows a head gasket, I'm learning a lot, so carry on!

Agreed, a friendly grudge match at a track would be a blast. I'd glady join in so you guys would have a field filler to feel good about passing, LOL.

I have a friend that I meet at the track and we have a long rivalry. He had a GT3, and I beat him each time we meet by about a second. However, that's in my Camaro. He asked me not to take the Viper because he knows there's no way he would catch me, LOL. He got tired of getting beat by my archaic Camaro, so he just went and bought a GT3 RS. Porsche has fallen behind, they need to up their game. Maybe the new 2014s will accomplish that. One of my favorite recent memories was chasing around with these two guys at the track. We were all within a second of eachother, so it made for some close competition. Grudge matches and friendly rivalries are what make it all worthwhile.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[VENOM V]

Lol what he said..

We've got to make a plan to get together on the track, the two Gen V's, Lee. Good times ahead.

Next Sunday after Buttonwillow Venom V. I'll buy the first round

RedSled, I'm bringing the Viper! I was going to bring the Camaro, but decided I drive that thing hard enough, it's in the shop getting a roll bar and 6 point harnesses along with a wing and splitter. So Viper it is. I'll be there both days 12/21 - 12/22

 

[kdaviper]

Screw GM's MR active dampers... This system generates its own power and enables jack-less wheel removal.

http://www.levantpower.com/automotive/

And since ZF is involved in the development, and Fiat/Chrysler has a pretty good ralationship with ZF... perhaps the Gen V ACR could become an early adaptor:{)