Gen V Autoweek
- Thread starter mnc2886
- Start date
mnc2886
Enthusiast
I'm sorry, but I have to chime in here. I normally don't like participating in online tug-of-wars, but this is ignorant. You just referred to a regular Viper's time of 7:59. You do realize that was a Gen III and conducted by Motor Trend? A Gen IV regular coupe would have bested that and been right in line with the 2009 ZR1. I can't believe you just referenced a test of a Gen III Viper on run flats with Motor Trend's awesome drivers at the helm as the end all-be all statistic of how a Viper performs.
Listen, if you want to gauge your decision on which car is better based on ring times, that is fine, but honestly your post is terrible, uninformed, and misleading. By the way, I believe there are plenty of Gen IV Vipers on this forum that can get over 170 MPH in the mile stock. For someone that is so interested in a Gen V Viper, you sure do dislike Vipers quite a lot.
Vip23er
Viper Owner
emericr - What does it matter if it is a REGULAR Viper or an ACR? Sure, the times would be different, but not different enough for a 45 sec gap. Are you saying that the Corvette ZR1 is not a real corvette because it is the higher end version? An ACR is a REAL and REGULAR Viper! Plus, there are a lot more ACR's out there than you might think. At a normal Viper meeting I go to, probably half are new ACR's so these are not mystical creatures that are only brought out on track days. A Viper is a Viper whether it is an ACR or not!
There seems to be a rash of noobs on the site amazingly ignorant of Viper history yet hell bent on promoting the new Gen 5, it's like some SRT shills showed up and joined in July.
Flip flopping on "maybe" buying one..or buying one used, or basing their supposed decision on how they are "treated" in a car forum. Really...LOL...some car guys.
I hope this isn't the crowd Ralph and SRT is aiming at. And I'll bet they never buy one, thats the pathetic part.
Just talking the talk for months and when the time comes to order a NEW car.....lets watch and see who steps up.
emericr
Enthusiast
Amazing on how you guys want to be selective about the stats. Now you find the excuse that it was driven by Motor Trend. What a joke. If tomorrow, Motor Trends test the car with a 3.1 sec to 60, I am sure most of you will be so proud to point it out.
My original point was that a previous Gen vipers are not up to par with its competition when it comes to quality and track ability. I prove it to you that back in the days when there were no ACR and it is not enough.
Regarding the mile run, I could not find any evidence of a standard (i.e. not customized) viper running faster anywhere and there were none that accomplished this when I went. I am happy to be proven wrong with some FACTS.
I am not the one who brought the ring to the discussion... That is specifically my point. As previously stated, this will be my daily driver and I could care less of the ring time other than bragging rights when talking about cars over a beer with car fanatics.
I do not dislike the Viper but I do not drink the coolaid that it is a supercar and that it was a great overall car. It is my opinion and only mine that the previous gens were one dimensional (performance oriented) and I am not interested in that. Otherwise, I could buy an Ariel Atom or Nissan GTR and run circles around the Vipers on the track or at a light.
If I am here, it is because the new one can be cross shopped with cars of a higher nature like I stated above and that it seems it is multi dimensional.
My original point was that a previous Gen vipers are not up to par with its competition when it comes to quality and track ability. I prove it to you that back in the days when there were no ACR and it is not enough.
Regarding the mile run, I could not find any evidence of a standard (i.e. not customized) viper running faster anywhere and there were none that accomplished this when I went. I am happy to be proven wrong with some FACTS.
I am not the one who brought the ring to the discussion... That is specifically my point. As previously stated, this will be my daily driver and I could care less of the ring time other than bragging rights when talking about cars over a beer with car fanatics.
I do not dislike the Viper but I do not drink the coolaid that it is a supercar and that it was a great overall car. It is my opinion and only mine that the previous gens were one dimensional (performance oriented) and I am not interested in that. Otherwise, I could buy an Ariel Atom or Nissan GTR and run circles around the Vipers on the track or at a light.
If I am here, it is because the new one can be cross shopped with cars of a higher nature like I stated above and that it seems it is multi dimensional.
emericr
Enthusiast
Bring some facts to the table please rather than bashing as usual. I have said many times that I am new to the Viper community. I have not come down to your level of name calling but your lack of common sense is getting annoying. Last time I checked, the forum is there to help people get information about the car and share useful tips and information about the car. All you do is spit negativity. I have not finalized my decision about the Viper (see my post above) but I do not see on how that has anything to do with why my postings should have more relevance than anyone else.
I wonder why you did not keep your viper and bought an Italian car instead?
If there are 1,000 new buyers like me, I think Ralph will be happy because that means his car is a success as it has reached beyond the existing customer base.
I wonder why you did not keep your viper and bought an Italian car instead?
If there are 1,000 new buyers like me, I think Ralph will be happy because that means his car is a success as it has reached beyond the existing customer base.
TexasTorred
Enthusiast
+2............
emericr
Enthusiast
It only matters because that was what I was referring to in my post. Simple as that. If my knowledge is correct, the ACR is for the ********* person that will track his car often and does not have AC or a radio.
For most of us out there, it is a deal breaker for a daily driver.
It is becoming apparent that I have a different interest in the Viper than most. I am looking for a car that can driven on a daily basis and therefore require comfort features. The ACR is not a match for my needs, that's all.
I am unfortunately getting annoyed at the bashing of members like ViperJon but I am refreshed with comments like yours.
Cheers.
A Gen V enthusiast
For most of us out there, it is a deal breaker for a daily driver.
It is becoming apparent that I have a different interest in the Viper than most. I am looking for a car that can driven on a daily basis and therefore require comfort features. The ACR is not a match for my needs, that's all.
I am unfortunately getting annoyed at the bashing of members like ViperJon but I am refreshed with comments like yours.
Cheers.
A Gen V enthusiast
Vip23er
Viper Owner
emericr - the only thing I will add to this is that the ACR has all the same features as the normal Viper (AC, radio, cd, etc....). I believe you could get a radio delete, but I have not seen one. It is as much as a "daily driver" as an SRT10, except for maybe the tires. I say that and use "daily driver" very lightly.....this car is not a daily driver, but that is why I love it!
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
Obviously, you are hitting a nerve with many folks. You lose a little bit of credibility whey you ask for facts, but have never driven any of the prior gen vipers you are speaking to. There are a couple important facts though to note for the cars:
1) gen3's had 500hp and terrible run-flat tires. Put a modern tire (PS2, or cup) and performance improves dramatically. Put hoosiers on and mind boggling what the stock car does.
2) gen4's 600hp and factory with PS'2 or cups on ACR's.
3) gen3's or gen4's (regardless of model std or ACR) will be faster on the track than the cars you mention (specfically 911S and GTR). btw, those cars run effectively the same modern tires so it is even to compare.
Lastly, the C63 comment is a bit humorous. Having owned both, they are not even comparable from a performance perspective and would argue th C-class AMG, while fun, is not a super high quality car as far as interior, refinement, etc. Fun, yes, but definately not faster or more responsive.
At the end of the day though, if not interested in a Gen3/4, then we should stop talking about it until you go drive one on the track. You will be blown away. As for the GenV, we can all only hope to be lucky enough to drive on the track soon, but should be assured it will be a monster compared to the cars you are mentioning.
Like I said before, I am excited about the GenV because of the luxury upgrades, looks, and the performance. All will in fact make our older cars pale in comparison at some level and that is how it should be if we all want forward progress and SRT wants to sell cars.
AJ usmc
Enthusiast
if you want information then ask for it. but dont do what you been doing. and dont say you been looking for information cause you havent. what you been doing is putting the viper down on a VIPER forum. ofcourse your gonna piss everyone off and all we're gonna do is spit venom at you. (lol puns...) the more you talk the more you sound like the mags that unjustly put the viper down.
i agree with comemorative
swexlin
Viper Owner
"1) gen3's had 500hp and terrible run-flat tires. Put a modern tire (PS2, or cup) and performance improves dramatically. Put hoosiers on and mind boggling what the stock car does.
This. When I put PS2s on my 03, it was a whole different animal. Amazing the 0-60 and 1/4-mile times the magazines got 10 years ago on run-flats on the Gen 3. Those numbers werer very good, I'd like to see it tested with modern rubber. And the Gen 4 is even faster.
This. When I put PS2s on my 03, it was a whole different animal. Amazing the 0-60 and 1/4-mile times the magazines got 10 years ago on run-flats on the Gen 3. Those numbers werer very good, I'd like to see it tested with modern rubber. And the Gen 4 is even faster.
emericr
Enthusiast
Where do you see that I have not driven a Viper??? I have driven all of the Generations and if you guys think it matches the interior of a C class let alone a Porsche or a GTR, you are simply unbiased (I agree that the C class is far from being a top of the line interior but it is based on a 55K vehicle not 90K). All of the Vipers I have driven had less than 10,000 miles on it and they would rattle, the seats seamed like they had been beaten up and the A/C was poor at best to just name of few of the issues I noticed. Traction was an issue on dry pavement at the limit and let's forget about having any water on the road.
Rather than making statements about the car being faster than GTR, why don't you bring me some lap times to compare? Most of the forums and car mags out there show the GTR as being superior...
Rather than making statements about the car being faster than GTR, why don't you bring me some lap times to compare? Most of the forums and car mags out there show the GTR as being superior...
emericr
Enthusiast
Who is the cry baby now? Not my fault if all the mags think it is a crude car with the interior of a 1990s minivan???
Vip23er
Viper Owner
If you want lap times, look at the Nubrurgring times and dont tell me "well this is an ACR Viper and not the "regular" viper. Again, a Viper is a Viper.
2009 Viper ACR - 7:22.1, 2010 Viper ACR - 7:12.13. Nissan GTR - 7:24.22, 7:26.70, 7:29.03, 7:34 and 7:38.
You asked: "Rather than making statements about the car being faster than GTR, why don't you brin gme some lap times to compare?" There you go....that should be enough said!!!!!
2009 Viper ACR - 7:22.1, 2010 Viper ACR - 7:12.13. Nissan GTR - 7:24.22, 7:26.70, 7:29.03, 7:34 and 7:38.
You asked: "Rather than making statements about the car being faster than GTR, why don't you brin gme some lap times to compare?" There you go....that should be enough said!!!!!
OK, let's try to be contructive .. you mention the GTR a couple times, Jag, RS8, etc., those are all cool. If you're really looking at a true daily driver, there are going to be few viper owners who will argue the viper should be your choice. I'd carry that over to the gen5. Yes, it'll be waaaay better to live with day to day, but will it be as comfortable as a GTR, I don't see it. But most viper guys wouldn't buy a GTR with all the electronic gadgets. I've not driven one, only sat in it. Nice. Talked to 2 instructors that tracked it & they said it was great, but it was boring as hell. Now going fast is hardly ever boring, but I know what they mean, it's a point and shot camera type car and drives itself when you ****. I'm not dogging that, I respect the GTR a lot for it's perf and technology, but different people enjoy different things. I'd honestly think you sound more like a GTR or RS8 guy, you can sport mode it & enjoy the paddles, you can be very comfortable on any length drive, hec I think they even have cupholders, but I doubt the viper, even the new one, will fit that bill.
Also, if you like good mag reviews on cars, which you do, and that's fine, lots of people do, then this will also be against a decision on a viper. The viper is notoriously not liked by mags. If a mag gives a good review of the gen5, we'll be surprised, we won't wear it on our t-shirt, that's not the viper crowd, we'll more likely share our helmet cam of a trackday driving around other cars. But mags don't like vipers and the gen5 may get a kinder review, as it should, but if you like your car to get a "1st place" review from car & driver or motortrend, I wouldn't count on that for a gen5 either. Not saying it's not possible, but the odds are against it.
If you can wait, then that's the best bet, see the perf #'s from SRT and the mags, which both need a grain of salt, and then real world reports, and go from there.
Slithr
Enthusiast
I'll help you out, it sounds like you are far to sophisticated for a Viper and are probably best suited for a Nissan. I hope i just saved you a few grand
emericr
Enthusiast
I am fully aware of the ACR's time so why bring it up again? I also said that in my humble opinion, track time is not everything. I am respectfully requesting times of other tracks to be a better educated person about the Viper. Where else than a Viper forum would I go to get that information? Is this too much to ask? My statement about bringing facts was directly pointed to ViperJon as he only talks in general terms in a negative way.
emericr
Enthusiast
I appreciate your civility and your common sense .
If you look at my potential choices for my next ride, you will note that the GTR is not on the list. If the Viper is on my list, it is because I look for a car that has a "soul" and visceral feedback. I agree with your assessment of the GTR and most mags share the feeling. I do not rely entirely on the reviews on magazines but it does enter into the equation especially when it is close to impossible to drive the cars. I have been trying to get in touch with local owners so that when they get a GenV, I can get their feedback and hopefully test drive it.
FYI that the Gen V GTS has 2 cupholders. I know, I know, heresy for the for Viper ********* but I call this evolution.
Looking forward meeting you and discussing this stuff over a beer at a future VOI event if I am allowed.
. If you look at my potential choices for my next ride, you will note that the GTR is not on the list. If the Viper is on my list, it is because I look for a car that has a "soul" and visceral feedback. I agree with your assessment of the GTR and most mags share the feeling. I do not rely entirely on the reviews on magazines but it does enter into the equation especially when it is close to impossible to drive the cars. I have been trying to get in touch with local owners so that when they get a GenV, I can get their feedback and hopefully test drive it.
FYI that the Gen V GTS has 2 cupholders. I know, I know, heresy for the for Viper ********* but I call this evolution.
Looking forward meeting you and discussing this stuff over a beer at a future VOI event if I am allowed.
emericr
Enthusiast
Why do I feel that the new potential breed of owners like me are not welcome in your exclusive group?
I'll help you out, it sounds like you are far to sophisticated for a Viper and are probably best suited for a Nissan. I hope i just saved you a few grand
emericr
Enthusiast
Agreed. This is exactly what I am trying to find out thru you guys and what I get from most of you (except for a few good souls) is "you don't know sh*t, a Viper is the best track car in the world, its interior is as good as a mercedes or an NSX" or in a nutsheel, get the F%ck off, you don't belong here.
The Viper will only survive with expanding its customer base.
The Viper will only survive with expanding its customer base.
Slithr
Enthusiast
Here are some facts that, that meanie ViperJon provided last March. I hope this helps. Caution this list is dated, and the Viper could've bested some of these or set additional records by now.
| MotorSport Ranch (full course), Cresson, Texas | 2:19.00 |
| Willow Springs Raceway, Rosamond, Calif | 1:26.00 |
| Putnam Park, Mount Meridian, Ind. | 1:12.60 |
| No Problem Raceway, Belle Rose, La. | 1:16.90 |
| Buttonwillow Raceway Park, Buttonwillow, Calif. | 1:55.70 |
| Autobahn Country Club, Joliet, Ill. | 2:37.70 |
| Virginia International Raceway, Alton, Va. | 2:48.60 |
| Spring Mountain (2.2 mile layout), Pahrump, Nev. | 1:45.40 |
| Nelson Ledges Road Course, Garrettsville, Ohio | 1:08.90 |
| Laguna Seca Raceway, Salinas. Calif. | 1:33.90 |
| Gingerman Raceway, South Haven, Mich. | 1:26.70 |
| Top Gear USA (El Toro), Irvine, Calif. | 1:22.00 |
| Miller Motorsport Park (perimeter), Tooele, Utah | 1:59.99 |
| Monticello Motor Club, Monticello, N.Y. | 2:26.37 |
| Sebring Full Course, Sebring, Fla. | 2:19.47 |
| New Jersey Motorsports Park, Millville, N.J. | 1:28.08 |
| Texas World Speedway, College Station, Texas | 1:47.56 |
| Nürburgring Nordschleife, Nürburg, Germany | 7:12.13 |
| Grattan Raceway, Belding, Mich. | 1:22.70 |
| Daytona Raceway, Daytona, Fl. | 1:54.05 |
Do you happen to have any facts, that show a Nissan or Mercedes doing better?
shooter_t1
Has Left the Room!
Laguna Seca lap records
1. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 1:33.92 138 '08 600 / 1536 Chris Winkler
2. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 1:34.43 137 '11 512 / 1394
3. McLaren MP4-12C 1:34.50 137 '10 600 / 1434 Randy Pobst
4. Devon GTX 1:35.08 136 0 659 / 0
5. Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 1:35.40 136 '11 700 / 1720 Randy Pobst
6. Porsche 911 GT2 RS 1:35.56 136 '10 620 / 1370 Johannes van Overbee
7. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:35.80 135 '08 647 / 1530
8. Ferrari 458 Italia 1:36.22 135 '09 570 / 1485 Randy Pobst
9. Nissan GT-R 1:36.30 135 '12 550 / 1736 Randy Pobst
10. Nissan GT-R 1:36.35 135 '11 530 / 1736
11. Lexus LF-A 1:36.39 135 '10 560 / 1609
12. Audi R8 GT 1:36.39 135 '10 560 / 1520
13. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 1:36.77 134 '10 450 / 1400
14. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 1:37.40 133 '11 512 / 1394
15. Porsche 911 Turbo 1:37.80 133 '09 500 / 1570
16. Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 1:38.70 131 '13 659 / 1750 Randy Pobst
17. Mercedes SLS AMG 1:38.82 131 '10 571 / 1620
18. Mercedes C 63 AMG Coupe Black Series 1:38.90 131 '11 517 / 1748 Randy Pobst
19. Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1:39.18 131 '12 588 / 1838 Randy Pobst
20. Porsche 911 Carrera S 1:39.30 131 '11 400 / 1415 Randy Pobst
21. Ford Mustang Boss 302 LS 1:39.50 130 '12 443 / 1652
22. Porsche 911 GT3 1:39.52 130 '06 415 / 1395
23. Porsche 911 Turbo 1:39.89 130 '06 480 / 1585
24. Porsche 911 Turbo S 1:40.11 130 '10 530 / 1585
25. Audi R8 V10 5.2 FSI 1:40.20 129 '09 525 / 1620
26. Nissan GT-R 1:40.45 129 '08 479 / 1740
27. Mercedes SLS AMG 1:40.74 129 '10 571 / 1620 Bern Schneider
28. Audi R8 4.2 FSI quattro 1:40.75 129 '06 420 / 1560
29. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1:40.90 129 '05 513 / 1437
30. Porsche Cayman R 1:41.64 128 '10 330 / 1320
31. Lotus Evora S 1:42.49 127 '11 351 / 1437
32. Jaguar XKR-S 1:42.90 126 '11 551 / 1843 Randy Pobst
33. BMW M3 1:42.96 126 '07 420 / 1580
34. Porsche Cayman S 1:43.00 126 '08 320 / 1375
35. Ford Mustang Boss 302 LS 1:43.00 126 '12 443 / 1652 Randy Pobst
36. Aston Martin V12 Vantage 1:43.04 126 '09 517 / 1680
37. BMW 1 Series M Coupe 1:43.31 126 '11 340 / 1513
38. Cadillac CTS-V 1:43.90 125 '09 564 / 1980
39. Shelby GT500 1:44.30 124 '10 547 / 1767
40. Shelby Cobra 427 S/C 1:44.46 124 0 492 / 1136
41. Shelby GT500 1:44.72 124 '06 507 / 1807
42. Shelby Mustang Cobra GT500KR 1:44.72 124 '08 540 / 1773
43. Porsche 911 Carrera 1:45.00 123 '08 345 / 1415
44. Jaguar XFR 1:45.37 123 '09 510 / 1960
45. Chevrolet Camaro SS 1:45.70 123 '10 432 / 1750
46. Lotus Exige 240R 1:45.82 123 '05 247 / 941
47. Toyota Supra RZ 1:45.87 122 '94 284 / 1640 Kurosawa Motoharu
48. BMW 135i Coupe 1:46.00 122 '07 306 / 1485
49. Nissan Nismo 370Z 1:46.50 122 '09 355 / 1500
50. Porsche Cayman S 1:47.58 121 '05 295 / 1406
51. Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X MR 1:47.71 120 '08 295 / 1585
52. Chevrolet Cobalt SS/TC 1:47.75 120 '08 260 / 1352
53. Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX 1:47.93 120 '05 290 / 1482
54. BMW 335i Coupe 1:49.04 119 '06 306 / 1610
55. Porsche 911 Carrera S 1:50.00 118 '04 355 / 1420
56. Mazda 3 MPS 1:50.38 117 '06 260 / 1485
57. Mazda RX-8 1:50.42 117 '02 231 / 1400
58. Honda S2000 1:50.74 117 '99 239 / 1260
59. Subaru BRZ 1:51.30 117 '12 200 / 1220 Randy Pobst
60. Mini Mini Cooper S Works GP Kit 1:51.73 116 '06 218 / 1180
61. Porsche 911 Carrera 1:51.80 116 '04 325 / 1395 Neil Chirico
62. Mini Cooper S 1:51.98 116 '06 174 / 1206
63. Mazda MX-5 Grand Touring 1:52.20 116 '09 160 / 1165
64. Aston Martin V8 Vantage 1:52.20 116 '05 385 / 1636 Neil Chirico
65. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1:53.73 w 114 '02 411 / 1414 Steve Millen
66. Porsche 911 Carrera 1:54.22 w 114 '01 320 / 1345 Steve Millen
67. Acura NSX 1:54.74 w 113 '04 290 / 1424 Steve Millen
68. Honda Civic SI 1:54.99 113 '06 197 / 1330
69. Honda NSX 1:57.00 111 '04 280 / 1330 Jeremy Clarkson
70. Ford Mustang Boss 302 1:58.77 109 '11 450 / 1650 Tom D
71. Chevrolet Camaro Z28 �82 2:05.80 103 '82 193 / 0
72. Ford Mustang GT 2:09.90 100 '82 159 / 1483
73. Kia Soul Sport 2.0 2:12.67 98 '10 144 / 1336
There ya go. So either buy one, or stop your whining. You sound like a woman shopping for shoes.
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
So I hate to bite, but now you have me very confused:
1) Everyone I have met that have actually driven a viper on a track have been super impressed. Can't believe how they handle, can't believe the torque, etc. So, I have a very difficult time believing you have driven a Gen3 or 4 on the track. Take your C63 to the track, run a 5 laps, then jump in a Gen3/4 viper. I can tell you which one you will not be going out in for the rest of the day... brakes, handling, will be worlds appart.
2)Interior - I never mentioned the Porsche as they are extreme hi-quality and in my opinion, probably the highest quality sports cars. I was only referring to the C-class which is loaded w/plastic. It is really a $35k interior put into a $60k car which is very dissappointing for a Mercedes. GTR interior is just ok, but definatly better than past vipers.
3)AC? - never had a problem on that front
4)Traction on dry pavement - yes, you are dealing with a car with huge power and no electronic aids. ie, imagine driving the C63 with traction control completely disabled and mashing the pedal, you will have a handfull and actually much less controllable. Now drive it in the wet that way.
5)Quality - at the end of the day, it was a dodge where they put the money into performance. lame carpets, radio's and switches from $25k cars was part of the game. Some ok with it, but I prefer the GenV approach and really the approach chrysler is making all up in that category.
Lastly, you have to stop reading magazines as the bible. drive the cars and then decide, but if truly interested in the track, then only compare actually on the track. Whole different car and actually to the point now where I don't enjoy the viper much on the street because the hardest you can drive on the street is like the laimest cool-down lap on the track.
Slithr
Enthusiast
Leave it to the 'Hurt feelings initiator' to sum it up Vip23er
Viper Owner
emericr - you stated above "Rather than making statements about the car being faster than GTR, why don't you bring me some lap times to compare? Most of the forums and car mags out there show the GTR as being superior." So that is what I provided. Yes, only from 1 track, but there are the numbers.
Why bring up the ACR again? You specifically asked for track times and so I gave them to you. You then say that "track time is not everything." Then why do you keep asking for track times from other tracks?
I am completely confused about what you want. If you want info on the Viper, we are trying to give it to you. No one here as said that we have the best interior, most creature comforts, etc. What we are saying is that the Viper is extremely good on the track, much more than on the street. If you want track times, we can give you great track times from all over with the Viper beating most other cars. Now, if you ask the question about the best interior....I dont think anyone here will tell you that the Viper interior is better than an Audi, Nissan, Porsche, etc (not including the Gen V). That is not what the car is designed for. It is meant to be a beast on the track and it is in every way.
Viper owners are very passionate about their cars and you are probably feeling some hostility from the way you are saying certain things. If you end up with a Viper, you will be welcomed like all other Viper owners are. If you dont end up with a Viper, the best of luck on the track when you come up against one of us!
Why bring up the ACR again? You specifically asked for track times and so I gave them to you. You then say that "track time is not everything." Then why do you keep asking for track times from other tracks?
I am completely confused about what you want. If you want info on the Viper, we are trying to give it to you. No one here as said that we have the best interior, most creature comforts, etc. What we are saying is that the Viper is extremely good on the track, much more than on the street. If you want track times, we can give you great track times from all over with the Viper beating most other cars. Now, if you ask the question about the best interior....I dont think anyone here will tell you that the Viper interior is better than an Audi, Nissan, Porsche, etc (not including the Gen V). That is not what the car is designed for. It is meant to be a beast on the track and it is in every way.
Viper owners are very passionate about their cars and you are probably feeling some hostility from the way you are saying certain things. If you end up with a Viper, you will be welcomed like all other Viper owners are. If you dont end up with a Viper, the best of luck on the track when you come up against one of us!
AJ usmc
Enthusiast
you took the nsx part that i said earlier outa context. i ment game changers. when the nsx came out it changed the game, same with the daytonas and super birds in nascar in the 1970s. lets not forget Shelby's ac cobra. when the viper came out chevy and other companies had to step it up, same way how lamborghini and ferrari had to step up their dependibility and build quality when the nsx came out.
I do know Ralph and I do not think that he would think much of you calling "You current owners" a "weird group" which, by the way is also a Forum rule violation even though some of us are weird and proud of it. SRT monitors this Forum and understands that when each new generation is released there is a period during which critical discussion and debate occurs. They also think that this is a healthy process that has, in part, resulted in some valuable feedback and improvements to each generation. The Gen V has been well received by the automotive press and most current Viper owners. That does not mean that it cannot be even better. The non garage queen Viper owner who actually has the skill set to use the performance of the vehicle tends to be a demanding, critical, observant, fact centered individual. Those qualities allow for safe performance driving.
Buying a Viper is for a self reliant, decisive, empowered person who likes to be a bit apart from the crowd and challenged on occasion. If that is who you are, buy one. If it is not who you are, so be it. Don't buy one.
Buying a Viper is for a self reliant, decisive, empowered person who likes to be a bit apart from the crowd and challenged on occasion. If that is who you are, buy one. If it is not who you are, so be it. Don't buy one.
Slithr
Enthusiast
Vip23er, thanks for reeling me back in.
I was taken aback by the way he chose to phrase his question on a Viper forum
I ran out of patience 
