Gen V has it's work cut out for it at the Ring...

[kennyhemi]

What tires was the ACR X on again?

you need to ask that question again now that the 918 ran a 6:57 I believe on race only tires!

 

[Makara]

you need to ask that question again now that the 918 ran a 6:57 I believe on race only tires!

Ahhhh no, PS2s

 

[ACRucrazy]

Ahhhh no, PS2s

Ahhhh, no. Specifically engineered Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2. Which you can't even buy yet.

 

[elanderholm]

Ahhhh, no. Specifically engineered Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2. Which you can't even buy yet.

Yes. At a min they are at least as good as the tires the acr ran with. But most likely improved quite a bit. It's been in every article I've read. Not sure why people keep quoting ps2...

 

[Makara]

Ahhhh, no. Specifically engineered Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2. Which you can't even buy yet.

Oh good Lord. When the ACR ran on tires better than anyone else, we still were jumping for joy that it had the ring record. They have an newer version of the tire we used. It still beat the ACR X...

The car is fast, as is the P1 and no doubt la Ferrari. They just have a lot going for them that the viper is going to have a hard time keeping up with unless it incorporates some of the technology that everyone seems to hate. Physics is physics.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Oh good Lord. When the ACR ran on tires better than anyone else, we still were jumping for joy that it had the ring record. They have an newer version of the tire we used. It still beat the ACR X...

That wasn't the point. The point was it is on a new version of the Sport Cups, not the PS2s, which are not Sport Cups of any kind. Just clarifying. The PS2s are a completely different tire.

BTW these tires were first used on the AMG Black cars, now the Porsches and followed by Ferrari

 

[Makara]

That wasn't the point. The point was it is on a new version of the Sport Cups, not the PS2s, which are not Sport Cups of any kind. Just clarifying. The PS2s are a completely different tire.

BTW these tires were first used on the AMG Black cars, now the Porsches and followed by Ferrari

For some reason, the article I read said PS2s but I stand corrected. The thing is, the new breed of supercars have a lot going for them and it is going to require some technology to make the viper keep up. I don't know where I stand on it myself. I want the viper to be an old school brute just as much as I want it to be the fastest. We can't really have both in this day and age. Cars with less power can outrun us in a straight line because of awd, a better traction control, PDK transmissions and so forth. Is it enough that the viper continue to be a giant V-10 and get a PDK and some of these other advantages that would put us in the running again? Would it still be enough of a viper?

 

[72hemi]

There is a new age of hyper-cars in the market that are just absolutely incredible! I would love to see a Gen V ACR regain the title, but that is quite a big jump to make at this point.

 

[Torquemonster]

For some reason, the article I read said PS2s but I stand corrected. The thing is, the new breed of supercars have a lot going for them and it is going to require some technology to make the viper keep up. I don't know where I stand on it myself. I want the viper to be an old school brute just as much as I want it to be the fastest. We can't really have both in this day and age. Cars with less power can outrun us in a straight line because of awd, a better traction control, PDK transmissions and so forth. Is it enough that the viper continue to be a giant V-10 and get a PDK and some of these other advantages that would put us in the running again? Would it still be enough of a viper?

Agreed, but why not have both?

If they had the budget it'd make a more sensible distinction between a raw base model SRT10 and a GTS to have one raw like it is now and the other with a 6-7 speed super slick PDK or similar with electronic clutch etc. The new tech trans would be worth several seconds a lap around the Ring with no other changes. It'd also justify a hefty price hike

 

[drl650]

I thought Porsche just beat the ring record with a 6.57?
http://www.autogespot.com/porsche-crushes-ring-record-with-the-918-spyder

 

[ACRucrazy]

Yes, it was announced a week after the McLaren was running

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/668432-Porsche-918-Spyder-breaks-Ring-record

 

[Vypr Phil]

Lamborghini testing the Gallardo successor at the Nürburgring.

Check out the car in the background:

You must be registered for see images attach

Today, from Auto Motor und Sport, the leading German auto magazine and website:
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...tet-auf-dem-ring-3816178.html?fotoshow_item=9

 

[ACRucrazy]

Well judging by the 112 MPH trap speed of the C7 I don't think anyone has to worry about them.

 

[klamathpro]

Well judging by the 112 MPH trap speed of the C7 I don't think anyone has to worry about them.

The C7 typically puts down 117MPH traps, but that's not the scary part. The fact that the C7 has 285 size rears and beat an 08' ZR1 including it's average speed, is what's really scary.

21.	Chevrolet Corvette Stingray	1:38.28	132MPH	'14	461HP
22.	Chevrolet Corvette ZR1	1:38.70	131MPH	'08	647HP

The Z0x will be mean. Maybe even take down the TA. The ACR needs to be revolutionary in aero and HP.

 

[SnakeBitten]

The C7 typically puts down 117MPH traps, but that's not the scary part. The fact that the C7 has 285 size rears and beat an 08' ZR1 including it's average speed, is what's really scary.

21.	Chevrolet Corvette Stingray	1:38.28	132MPH	'14	461HP
22.	Chevrolet Corvette ZR1	1:38.70	131MPH	'08	647HP

The Z0x will be mean. Maybe even take down the TA. The ACR needs to be revolutionary in aero and HP.

Not to mention that in a head to head the Stingray already out slolomed and out braked the track pack Gen 5 so that already tells you what the C7 platform is capable of doing handling wise. Just imagine another 200-300 hp added with the appropriate tweaks in the Z07/ZR1 respectively. It will not be pretty for the current performance of the Viper and I know Ralph knows that too.

Now there are those that will want to knock this kind of speculation because neither car is out or comfirmed yet. But I doubt GM will put out a new product that matches or loses to its main competitions old product in performance but we will see. I just dont see GM putting out both Z07/ZR1, especially with their funding, and them not being world beaters like the outgoing models.

SRT will have to step up big time and they will. I really believe they will.[hope springs eternal] I just hope it not with only the ACR. That would mean the SRT/GTS/TA may get stomped by the Z07/ZR1 unless they boost the performance of all models of the Viper. The ACR is not in the catagory of either Z07/ZR1 imho as its more racecar than street car like the Z brothers. MHO.

 

[SilveRT8]

Here's some news about the 600 hp Z07 ?
http://www.highlightpress.com/?s=z07+corvette

 

[viper GTS-R]

Personally, at this point, I feel Viper production needs to come to a halt. I don't find the TA all that exciting if it's considered two models above the SRT and can only best the outgoing ZR1 by a few tenths. In this day and age you CANNOT do this two year planning thing for a new car. Tweaking as you go is fine and dandy but as it's been said before, the C7 is just that good of a performer. Why? Because GM takes their time to create the best bang-for-the-buck car.

By the time we hear anything about another Viper from SRT, GM will have a team designing the C8.

--RS

 

[Solid Red 98]

Boy it sure seems like dooms day on these gen V forums. Have faith guys. You can bet SRT is watching the c7 developments very closely. From what I've read, there really isn't any plans for a zr1 in the foreseeable future, with the new z07 slated to be the new top vette. Let's all stay calm, the gen v is only on its 2nd year of production after coming back from nothing. SRT doesn't have the same budget or amount of resources that GM has, but the SRT guys do have a lot of passion and talent. But they ain't gonna keep making our beloved viper if they don't get support from us supposed viper fans first! Have faith people, have faith......

 

[ViperSmith]

Boy it sure seems like dooms day on these gen V forums. Have faith guys. You can bet SRT is watching the c7 developments very closely. From what I've read, there really isn't any plans for a zr1 in the foreseeable future, with the new z07 slated to be the new top vette. Let's all stay calm, the gen v is only on its 2nd year of production after coming back from nothing. SRT doesn't have the same budget or amount of resources that GM has, but the SRT guys do have a lot of passion and talent. But they ain't gonna keep making our beloved viper if they don't get support from us supposed viper fans first! Have faith people, have faith......

The negativity around here is pathetic. I agree 100%.

 

[ACRucrazy]

The C7 typically puts down 117MPH traps, but that's not the scary part. The fact that the C7 has 285 size rears and beat an 08' ZR1 including it's average speed, is what's really scary.

21.	Chevrolet Corvette Stingray	1:38.28	132MPH	'14	461HP
22.	Chevrolet Corvette ZR1	1:38.70	131MPH	'08	647HP

The Z0x will be mean. Maybe even take down the TA. The ACR needs to be revolutionary in aero and HP.

If you are going to quote the C7 Laguna Seca lap time, let's include the same driver. You compared the C7 Randy Pobst time to the ZR1 Car and Driver time.

Lets try this:

Pos Make / Model Time Speed (km/h) Year Power (hp) / Weight (kg) Driven by

1. SRT Viper TA 1:33.62 139 '13 649 / 1520 Randy Pobst
2. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:33.70 138 '13 647 / 1530 Randy Pobst
3. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 1:33.92 138 '08 600 / 1536 Chris Winkler
4. SRT Viper GTS 1:34.23 138 '13 649 / 1560 Randy Pobst
5. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 1:34.43 137 '11 512 / 1394
6. McLaren MP4-12C 1:34.50 137 '10 600 / 1434 Randy Pobst
7. SRT Viper 1:34.63 137 '13 659 / 1520 Randy Pobst
.
.
.
.
21. Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 1:38.28 132 '14 461 / 0 Randy Pobst
22. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:38.70 131 '08 647 / 1530 Car and driver

So yea, the C7 is about almost 4.5 seconds and 7kph slower than the TA and 6 kph slower than the GTS at the 2.2 mile Leguna Seca track in the hands of the same driver. SRT has nothing to worry about at any track, let alone the 12.9 mile Ring with the Stingray.

 

[madninjaskillz]

ACRucrazy - Wasn't that latest tested Zr1 a 2012 model? There have been some tweeks to the platform (albeit minor), to include tires,since '08.

Edit: comparing the slow '08 Zr1 time to the current C7 is a bit comical imo. We all know what the Zr1 can do. Perhaps it was up on power, had better tires and the suspension dialed in, but it was never 5 seconds slower than the C6Z either.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Yea it was 2013 ZR1. The info on the website was wrong, I just copied and paste.

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna_seca.html

For comparison:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/laguna_lap/

The ironic thing is according to fastestlaps, is just recently Randy ran the 2013 GTS at LS on 7/8. The time would put it between the '10 ACR and '12 Z06 on Motor Trends leader board.


Lap time ID: 5201a89c603f1
Car: 2013 SRT Viper GTS (477 kw)
Track: Laguna Seca
Lap time: 1:34.229
Conditions: Normal
Driven by: Randy Probst
Submitter IP: 76.179.***.***
Date & time of submission: 07/08/13, 04:53:32

 

[Ev1E9]

Personally, at this point, I feel Viper production needs to come to a halt. I don't find the TA all that exciting if it's considered two models above the SRT and can only best the outgoing ZR1 by a few tenths. In this day and age you CANNOT do this two year planning thing for a new car. Tweaking as you go is fine and dandy but as it's been said before, the C7 is just that good of a performer. Why? Because GM takes their time to create the best bang-for-the-buck car.

By the time we hear anything about another Viper from SRT, GM will have a team designing the C8.

--RS

Does anyone remember the following test? It's Motortrends initial workout of the C6 ZR1 at Laguna Seca during their '09 Best Driver's Car Competition. Randy Pobst is the driver, and he makes many of the same comments about the early ZR1 that he made about the GEN V Viper during the comparo.

It just goes to show the handling of the C6 ZR1 wasn't to his liking initially either. GM honed the C6 ZR1's handling as it matured. SRT will do the same. Plus, the TA will be hitting the market soon, and hopefully the market will bare a GEN V ACR.

SRT has already improved the handling in production GTSs and SRTs, and the improvements were detailed in later Motortrend tests. Unfortunately, the damage was already done, and the ZR1 comparo went viral, and the results became gospel. I won't even mention the SLS Black Series comparo. That was an apples to oranges comparison as far as I'm concerned.

Watch the video. All I could do was smile because if you just listen to Pobst's comments his criticisms of the early production ZR1 are almost identical to the GEN V Viper. It puts the early GEN V results in perspective for me. Oh yeah! The ZR1 turned in a 1:35.8 lap time at Laguna Seca during Motortrend's original test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ObFBtVbe-ug#t=17

 

[viper GTS-R]

Look, I get that and I've read just about every article about every new Viper that gets built and since the early 2000's they've always, ALWAYS put the Viper 2nd to the Corvette because of such simple things and it's the same formula every time but why is it that the cars that are sent are flawed?

I didn't bring up Randy cause I've figured the guy has gotten enough flack as he has. I'm sure if you stuck Mario Andretti in the car he'd say the same too but I still can't help to think they missed the mark on this car and when the TA was released I felt that the only reason behind that car was to beat the ZR1 at Laguna. Why couldn't the GTS? I like it, just not sure if I love it. Maybe I can't come to terms with technology but that's me!

 

[ACRucrazy]

when the TA was released I felt that the only reason behind that car was to beat the ZR1 at Laguna. Why couldn't the GTS?

I agree with that.

 

[SnakeBitten]

The fact that the SRT/GTS's poor showing vs its main older competitor, ZR1, continued test after test forced Ralph to have to step up the Vipers game. The fact that he had to Frankenstein a GTS with an SRT package and then some, to come up with a car that can only beat the older ZR1 by 1 tenth of a sec speaks volumes to me. The TA is not a GT car in any way shape or form as the ZR1 or the GTS is IMHO. I keep trying to see past that but just can't. The TA is an admission by SRT that the GTS can't handle the older ZR1. That is just my feeling on the matter. Love the Viper but just don't understand SRT.

 

[VENOM V]

The fact that the SRT/GTS's poor showing vs its main older competitor, ZR1, continued test after test forced Ralph to have to step up the Vipers game. The fact that he had to Frankenstein a GTS with an SRT package and then some, to come up with a car that can only beat the older ZR1 by 1 tenth of a sec speaks volumes to me. The TA is not a GT car in any way shape or form as the ZR1 or the GTS is IMHO. I keep trying to see past that but just can't. The TA is an admission by SRT that the GTS can't handle the older ZR1. That is just my feeling on the matter. Love the Viper but just don't understand SRT.

What would be interesting to see is how fast a GTS would be with the carbon aero package, which is a relatively tame aero package and on par with the ZR1's. The GTS with aero may be nearly as fast as the TA, and would remain a GT car. Aero is powerful, as the ACR shows.

Two weeks ago when I was tracking my Camaro at Buttonwillow, the Camaro was faster than all of the cars but the big-wing cars which were in a different league. The fastest car of the day was a late-model M3 with a big wing on the back, a splitter, coilovers and R compounds. The driver has been tracking for 20 years. He claims his aero shaves 3 full seconds off of his lap times at Buttonwillow, which is a much slower track than Laguna Seca. Aero would shave more time off at Seca. So aero plays a huge role.

I'm more optimistic than many about the prospects of a Gen V ACR at the Ring. 1500 pounds of downforce at 150 MPH is what I've heard may be the ACR aero package, much greater than the 300 pounds of the currently-available carbon aero package. Add to that some new bad ass R compounds on it to replace the mediocre Corsas and carbon ceramic brakes, and the Gen V ACR could be competitive at the Ring.

 

[Ev1E9]

What would be interesting to see is how fast a GTS would be with the carbon aero package, which is a relatively tame aero package and on par with the ZR1's. The GTS with aero may be nearly as fast as the TA, and would remain a GT car. Aero is powerful, as the ACR shows.

Two weeks ago when I was tracking my Camaro against cars with big wings and splitters, I was faster than all of the cars but the big-wing cars. The fastest car of the day was a late-model M3 with a big wing on the back, a splitter, coilovers and R compounds. The driver has been tracking for 20 years. He claims his aero shaves 3 full seconds off of his lap times at Buttonwillow, which is a much slower track than Laguna Seca. Aero would shave more time off at Seca. So aero plays a huge role.

A GTS, with the carbon aero package, and equivalent tires. It would be a much different story.

 

[VENOM V]

A GTS, with the carbon aero package, and equivalent tires. It would be a much different story.

Agreed, Ralph says the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups are 2 seconds per lap faster than the Corsas.

 

[VENOM V]

Does anyone remember the following test? It's Motortrends initial workout of the C6 ZR1 at Laguna Seca during their '09 Best Driver's Car Competition. Randy Pobst is the driver, and he makes many of the same comments about the early ZR1 that he made about the GEN V Viper during the comparo.

It just goes to show the handling of the C6 ZR1 wasn't to his liking initially either. GM honed the C6 ZR1's handling as it matured. SRT will do the same. Plus, the TA will be hitting the market soon, and hopefully the market will bare a GEN V ACR.

SRT has already improved the handling in production GTSs and SRTs, and the improvements were detailed in later Motortrend tests. Unfortunately, the damage was already done, and the ZR1 comparo went viral, and the results became gospel. I won't even mention the SLS Black Series comparo. That was an apples to oranges comparison as far as I'm concerned.

Watch the video. All I could do was smile because if you just listen to Pobst's comments his criticisms of the early production ZR1 are almost identical to the GEN V Viper. It puts the early GEN V results in perspective for me. Oh yeah! The ZR1 turned in a 1:35.8 lap time at Laguna Seca during Motortrend's original test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ObFBtVbe-ug#t=17

Good post! I came to the same conclusion when I saw that video a while back.