Going to the track with my GTS any advice?

[Timnineside]

We had a instructor all set to go, but he had something come up so maybe next time!


Anyways can anyone give me any tricks/tips/advice to flushing the brake system?? Doing that today!

Tools needed etc.

And thanks MTGTS the for the Toyo's, tracking infor started working (of course now that they are in my home city)

You guys/gals are great!

-Tim

 

[GTS Dean]

Small funnel, 7/16" wrench, rubber tubing, a container to catch the old fluid, and someone to pump the brakes. I use a turkey baster to **** out as much old MC fluid as possible before starting. Front calipers have inboard and outboard bleed screws. I do inboard 'til clear, then outboard. Bleed order: RR, LR, RF, LF. Be sure and keep the MC level up, and put the cap back on squarely in between refills.

 

[Timnineside]

So I understand that I don't want to completly flush the fluid out because I will get air in the line correct? At some point during this I will be mixing fluid in a way right? Is that Okay? I assume stock fluid is still in there, and I am putting in the Motul. At what point will I be able to tell the correct fluid is coming out?

Also I have 3 pints of Motul just in case

Turkey baster is a great idea.

-Tim

 

[GTS Dean]

As you flush the system and replenish the reservoir, 99% of the old fluid should be replaced. If you don't watch the MC level closely, it is possible to introduce air into the uphill side of the unit.

FYI - if you replace pads, make sure your MC is not too full. When the pistons are pushed back into the calipers, it forces that volume of brake fluid back into the MC reservoir. Another good reason to have a turkey baster in the toolbox.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

**** the fluid out of the reservoir. Refill. Then start bleeding.

 

[Timnineside]

Brake system FLUSHED~! Thanks a million guys! Finally figured out what that "piece" of hose was for. I was going to ask then forgot, started then realized! To point the fluid downwards ( GOT IT!)

Anyways I just found two more problems with the car.

1-Speedo seems to be quite far off at 100 mph+

2-Parts fly off at 170mph....... (that small V shaped body piece that lets air in decided to brake off at or around 170 (closed course) so anyone have an extra one laying around? Matte black or gloss black would be nice!)


Any tips/tricks to flusing the power steering fluid?? I picked up two quarts Mopar fluid today!

Thanks a ton guys!

And BIG thanks to MTGTS for the Toyo's I had to go to the post office and raise hell to find them but eventually they produced them for me!

-Tim

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Power steering. **** it all out. Refill. Run the motor and turn the wheel left and right to full lock a few times. **** out fluid, refill and repeat until the fluid looks clean.

 

[Timnineside]

Brake system FLUSHED~! Thanks a million guys! Finally figured out what that "piece" of hose was for. I was going to ask then forgot, started then realized! To point the fluid downwards ( GOT IT!)

Anyways I just found two more problems with the car.

1-Speedo seems to be quite far off at 100 mph+

2-Parts fly off at 170mph....... (that small V shaped body piece that lets air in decided to brake off at or around 170 (closed course) so anyone have an extra one laying around? Matte black or gloss black would be nice!)


Any tips/tricks to flusing the power steering fluid?? I picked up two quarts Mopar fluid today!

Thanks a ton guys!

And BIG thanks to MTGTS for the Toyo's I had to go to the post office and raise hell to find them but eventually they produced them for me!

-Tim

 

[viperracer77]

New brakes, drilled and slotted. New brake lines, flush and replace your fluids, tow hooks (just incase). A set of slicks and light weight wheels, five point harness, air duct to the brakes. And o ya HAVE FUN.

 

[RevHeat]

New brakes, drilled .

Noooooo, please do not get drilled rotors............they are prone to crack...

 

[Timnineside]

I have rotors that are slightly slotted, going to give them a whirl but brings tools/stockies just in case.

Thanks Chuck for the PS flush, that helps out a lot!! Doing that ASAP!!!!

I guess I could use some tow hooks, but ahh fudge it too late now!! I will be racing FRIDAY!!!!

Hopefully post some vids with the GoPro over the weekend!

-Tim

 

[viperracer77]

Noooooo, please do not get drilled rotors............they are prone to crack...

My first set I had cracked, but I sent them back to Bear and they sent me new ones and they have not cracked and I check them after every event. I thought they were just a bad set but thanks for the heads up I'll have to make sure it docent happen again. But I'm sure they would have by now because I'm running on some pretty fast tracks that also have a lot of sort straights and tight turns.

 

[DrumrBoy]

Two sessions on EBC "dimpled" (not even drilled) and slotted

Not sayin' it always happens but it certainly can.

 

[BigBadViper]

Don't know if you are running at a Viper event, but I but a good set of used Hoosers from Archer racing for damn cheap for all 4 and they hooked pretty good. They wouldn't even let me on the track with Drag Radials.

 

[RevHeat]

Two sessions on EBC "dimpled" (not even drilled) and slotted

Not sayin' it always happens but it certainly can.

wow, you must have been getting on it in those two session......

 

[DrumrBoy]

wow, you must have been getting on it in those two session......

I got a gag award for "best braking" but I think it was less to do with my expert braking and more to do with all the sparks that flew on the run where this crack developed

 

[Dom426h]

Drumr, a few Q's for you regarding your cracked rotor situation:

-about how much power does your viper make?
-were you using street or track pads?
-were your pads properly bedded in?
-did you do a warmup lap before hotlaps? coodown lap?
-did you have any brake cooling mods? do you now?
-What rotors do you now run? Two-piece?

 

[DrumrBoy]

Drumr, a few Q's for you regarding your cracked rotor situation:



-about how much power does your viper make? The car with these rotors (pictured in the avatar) makes 585 RW
-were you using street or track pads? Hawk blues....not real aggressive but better hot than street pads
-were your pads properly bedded in?....yep. Everyone has a different regimen, mine is 60-10, 50-10, 40-10 and repeat a few times,
-did you do a warmup lap before hotlaps? coodown lap? In Time Trials the first lap is quite slow.....have to drag the brakes a little to get heat into 'em, then its 2-3 flying laps, 1 cooldown and in
-did you have any brake cooling mods? do you now? Not then. Do now
-What rotors do you now run? Two-piece?

I run Porsche GT2 2-piece rotors and calipers and Porsche DT-70 equivalent pads....pretty aggressive. (I don't run the V650 on the track anymore, I run an old VRL/SCCA GTS with alot of mods). I posted the result from the street car since that was likely comparable to what a stock GTS brake set up would look like. The rotors always seemed to crack at a point initiated by the drilled hole or dimple. Not a metallurgist but I think the heat retention/dissipation around those things is funky.....and can cause cracks pretty easily if you get them real hot. Never had a problem with 'em on the street, but the Road Atlanta 160-50 braking zones and the CMP dragstrip-hairpin-dragstrip-hairpin layout toasted the rotors pretty consistently inside of a day. When I tracked the street car I used to carry two extra sets....believe it or not the best I found were cryo-treated OEM rotors!

 

[DrumrBoy]

Sorry....I goofed that up....the answers to your Q's are in the quote box....except for the last one.

To maintain "Dodgeness" the calipers (also brembos that used to say "Porsche") now have painted "Viper" logos.....but Viper folk still ask *** when they see the rotors.....

Fronts (with spacer plate obfuscating the 11 holes!)

and the rears where you can see the tell-tale 11 holes....

The interesting thing is that this car is driven harder and faster than the street car ever was, and even though the rotors have the poop drilled out of them, they last a long time and never crack. I assume its that German metallurgy or something because there is a huge difference between the Viper rotors and the Porsche rotors in terms of longevity and heat management.

All of this is irrelevant to the street-GTS-on-the-track question.....I was just trying to help a brother avoid messing up blingy rotors at a track day

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

All tracked rotors will crack eventually. Here are my slotted Stoptechs. As you can see I "braked the slot out of them" (pun intended) and were ready to swap out anyway.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

believe it or not the best I found were cryo-treated OEM rotors!

Did somebody say OEM rotors? Seriously, I'm not hoarding them. It just seemed a shame to throw them out when guys were upgrading. I think I have enough for my street Viper to last a million miles.

 

[DrumrBoy]

Nice stash Chuck. You're the Nelson Bunker Hunt of OEM Viper rotors!

 

[Timnineside]

Alright here is the update. Track day went AMAZING!!!! Tons of fun with great people. The Toyo 888's that I got used were great and did everything I needed them too.

Had a lot of fun, and looking forward to doing it again. I would really love to do some Viper club events, but they seem to always conflict with my business events.

Anyways GREAT advice from everyone, I know it really helped a lot.

And the outcome:

Used tires: Held up great, and will be using them a few more times.

Motul Brake Fluid: No boiling, no problems

Power Steering: No problems

Bling Rotors (yes I left them on): No cracking, but did have overheat issues here. They were smoking pretty bad after about 5-7 laps and I feel I was beating on them pretty hard trying to figure out the track.

Brake pads(cheapies): Also getting pretty hot and probably causing the smoke/steam to pour out.

Any advice to my brake issues here? I would prefer to do something that is a touch more cost effective. No to be cheap, but don't want to drop loads of money on something I may only do 1-2 times a year!

Thanks a million!

-Tim

 

[GTS Dean]

Pad/rotor combination takes lots of laps and seat time to sort out. As your driving skills improve, you should be braking less (timewise), but much harder. This will increase peak thermal loading, but also allow more time for components to cool between applications. Grippier pads will help, but you'll need to develop your drivng style to minimize tire flatspots if non-abs equipped. There's always a tradeoff between bite, heat, wear and dollar$. Eventually, your skills will improve beyond stock-ish components and you'll be ready for the step up to big brakes.

 

[Timnineside]

Ahhhhhh Great advice! No ABS on my 99. Any recomendations for pads/rotors for my novice skill level? I do undertand that I need to learn the track/driving skills better, and I do notice riding with instructors etc that you do the harder braking sooner. I just couldn't get the hang of it because I was starting to lose pedal slightly and didn't want to run the risk of over shooting or not stopping all together. I figured better safe than sorry on that one.

-Tim

 

[DrumrBoy]

A first step toward better bite and greater performance-when-hot is stock rotors and Hawk Blue pads. As Dean said, there are a million combinations....I just offered you one datapoint, there will probably be plenty more differing views in this thread!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Get the most out of what you got before going crazy with mods. And to do that you'll need a good lap timer.

 

[Timnineside]

Looking into pads ASAP for sure!!


Also what is your guys opinions on running those TOYO 888's on the 1/4? Good idea? Bad idea??

Thanks!

 

[MTGTS]

I just couldn't get the hang of it because I was starting to lose pedal slightly and didn't want to run the risk of over shooting or not stopping all together. I figured better safe than sorry on that one.

-Tim

Do you have SS lines? You prob didn't get all the old crappy fluid out. Just bleed all of them some more

As far as pads go. I run Carbotechs. As a beginner you can just throw some XP8's on and use them for DD as well if you don't mind the dust.

 

[IDM]

whoever suggested overfilling engine oil by 1 quart was off, dont do that ever in my opinion on any car.