Had a little OOPS at the autocross track last night. Caught on video.

[Rizzo]

Had a great time last night at our local autocross track but got a little cocky and had a small spin out. The spin wasnt the scary part but the fence getting closer scared the crap out of me. I went back and measured how far my front bumper was from the fence and it was 11 inches. Lucked out and the car was fine other than some grass on the tires. All constructive criticism is welcome as Im not exactly sure what went wrong other than trying to go too fast through the pilons. Other than that mishap the night was great and I had the fastest time of the night on another run.

Here is the link
YouTube - motorbuilder22's Channel

 

[RTTTTed]

You still have runcraps on that car?

Ted

 

[mykes]

Cold tires?It looks like fun.Are you coming to cow town for some track time?See ya there.Myke

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

Close call. I did that with a track wall that didn't end happy.

I feel for your Viper though. That poor car could never really stretch it's legs.

It's like a boxer warming up in a phone booth. These Vipers need big race tracks.

 

[Rizzo]

Not only run craps but cold run craps..LOL. Going to burn these off and replace them but they were like new so I thought I'd wear em out first. They are very slippery in the corners.

 

[RTTTTed]

Not only run craps but cold run craps..LOL. Going to burn these off and replace them but they were like new so I thought I'd wear em out first. They are very slippery in the corners.

Be careful. I blame runcraps on my hydroplaning and hitting a Semi headon. Not sure I'd ever drive a runcrap car again. I'd just put the runcraps up for sale (like to a museum for originality) and just buy PS2s. Like maybe before you scratch your car with that fence?

Ted

 

[AZTVR]

Stock brakes ? Lucky that you didn't hit anything.

 

[Bobpantax]

Strange. It looks like you were going in a straight line when it happened. When is the last time you had your brakes bled of air? It looks like the top speed of the entire run was probably 45 MPH or less. Correct? The bottom line is I doubt that what happened had much to do with the run craps since it did not happen in a corner and it does not look like your rear end kicked out due to acceleration since you seem to have lost control while decelerating.

 

[plumcrazy]

does look like fun except the spin. glad youre ok

 

[Rizzo]

Strange. It looks like you were going in a straight line when it happened. When is the last time you had your brakes bled of air? It looks like the top speed of the entire run was probably 45 MPH or less. Correct? The bottom line is I doubt that what happened had much to do with the run craps since it did not happen in a corner and it does not look like your rear end kicked out due to acceleration since you seem to have lost control while decelerating.

I wish I could blame it on tires or brakes but this was purely driver error. If you look closely you can see 3 sets of pilons. You have to brake to go through them and I was simply trying to go too fast for my skills. When I got through the 2nd set the car just lets go and away I went. The brakes work great and the run craps are fun as they let me slide the car around a bit. I wouldnt buy another set but they will do for now. Just have to be a little more careful around those pilons...LOL.,

 

[Bobpantax]

I wish I could blame it on tires or brakes but this was purely driver error. If you look closely you can see 3 sets of pilons. You have to brake to go through them and I was simply trying to go too fast for my skills. When I got through the 2nd set the car just lets go and away I went. The brakes work great and the run craps are fun as they let me slide the car around a bit. I wouldnt buy another set but they will do for now. Just have to be a little more careful around those pilons...LOL.,

I call that kind of error a "lack of smoothness" error. It has happened to all of us at one time or another. It is part of the learning process. The first time I went to Homestead, I was decelerating into a right hand corner and braked a bit late. The car did not accomplish weight transfer properly and the rear lost traction to the left - fortunately on a paved apron with no wall contact. It was a bit embarrassing but I learned my lesson. You will do better next time. Enjoy!

 

[Garron]

get rid of those tires. Take the money you would of used if you hit the fence and buy tires with it.

 

[GDog]

Rizzo, sorry to say but you were braking and turning (0.42sec) at the same time. Due to weight transfer from braking the back goes light then add in the direction change = the spin. There are contributing factor such as the Runflats and an assumed cold tire temp but the main issue is adding steering while braking.

All things considered this was a great learning experience and no harm done so, win. You are doing the right thing by learning your car at the track thus - good job!

Lesson: Brake in a straight line, come off the brakes smoothly and then turn in.

Geoff

 

[Twister]

I think he was doing quite a bit more than 45..Id say closer to 65 mph or more..

I like this vid a lot better..Kudos for your video man!

YouTube - motorbuilder22's Channel

 

[ViperCollector]

GDog is correct, no reason to be on the brakes during a slalom, in fact you should be on the gas slightly to maintain speed. You just came into the slalom too fast and were turning when braking.

 

[TrackAire]

Wow...I think the moral of this story is not to put a 500 hp car on what appears to be a go kart track!!

Actually, you're a pretty damn good driver considering all the hard objects you could have slide off and hit at just about 90% of that track. It looks to me you were going a lot faster than you think. Even a slow skid into a tire wall could cost thousands of $$.

You had everything from concrete walls, tire walls, trees, steel storage containers, a mud hole, three steel flag polls and chain link fences to contend with. I don't think that track would have qualified for SCCA insurance down here

Glad you didn't hit the fence and congrats on the FTD!

George

 

[nodoor]

I felt my back end slide yesterday a little bit underbraking with just a little turn of thr wheel. I will not do that again! I think the weight transfer got you. You probably go up to 70-75 right there when you started to break. I have runflats as well and I'm trying to wear them out before swapping. It might not be the best idea.

 

[Viper X]

I felt my back end slide yesterday a little bit underbraking with just a little turn of thr wheel. I will not do that again! I think the weight transfer got you. You probably go up to 70-75 right there when you started to break. I have runflats as well and I'm trying to wear them out before swapping. It might not be the best idea.

It's not.....

 

[racerjim]

I'll bet with a new set of ps2's you would have been even faster.

 

[Phun70]

With good tires it probably wouldn't have happened, **** can the runcraps!! You were definitely going over 45. When in doubt, let the engine do the braking, it's less likely to allow the ass end try to swap places with the front end.

 

[Rizzo]

Well with the weather we have been having I'll be putting the car away for the winter soon. What an incredibly SH*%ty summer we have had and its not getting any better. Cold and rainy, the leaves are all turning. Its depressing. Not much chance of burning off the run craps in the rain..LOL.

 

[fireball]

Sean,

Everyone seems to think it's the cars fault- or the tracks fault. It's not. I have a Viper and it's never spun by itself. Not once. Right now it's parked downstairs in my office building and I'm pretty sure it's not spinning - maybe I should check! Truth is the car is perfectly balanced until I get into it do something.



Here's what folks blamed:
runcraps
Cold tires
These Vipers need big race tracks
Stock brakes ? Lucky that you didn't hit anything
brakes bled of air
get rid of those tires
not to put a 500 hp car on what appears to be a go kart track
**** can the runcraps



My favourite kernal of advice: 'let the engine do the braking'. LOL! And I presume you should use the brakes for speeding up?

Wow.

Then you said,
I wish I could blame it on tires or brakes but this was purely driver error.

There were a few guys that got it right and the good news is that you're one of them. It's 100% your fault - big deal.

So what happened? While turning you put some weight on the front - so it turns really, really nice. That's not bad - it's called trail braking. The bad thing was that there was just to much weight transfer for the amount of turning you were doing. Any weight that gets added to the front, comes from the back and it just didn't have enough weight for the conering force you were asking it to do. Remember - you were also asking the rear to do some braking too.

The limit of the car changes with the type of tires, the condition of the tires, the brake pads, the road surface, the humidity, shock settings, spring rates, tire temp, ambient temp, 1000's of things. If you're not able to consider that when you drive your car.... well....



Anyway, it sure looked like a fun event! I would've loved to join you.

Later,
G

PS
Sean - I've been running in the 1:20.X all week! I'm not really pushing since I want to have some rubber left for Miller in a few weeks but pretty damn good in my book! Of course a ZR-1 running slicks in your rear view is always motivation!

 

[ViperGeorge]

The run craps **** when its wet or cold out. I have found them to be ok on track when it is warm and they have some heat in them. They are too heavy that's for sure.

 

[RTTTTed]

Greg and Sean are correct - driver error.

However, the idea is to have the fstest time and the runcraps won't allow that to happen. I understand the save money and don't buy new tires while there's rubber on the runcraps, but I DID wreck a beautiful 98 Roe GTS while driving in the rain on runcraps. Wouldn't have happened with other tires because my car hydroplaned when it hit a couple puddles at the speed limit. Never would have happened with the PS2s. The wet driving (broke PS2 tires in on wet and dry PIR road course)abilities of the PS2s are amazing. It's like driving on skinny tires.

If you've got the Zps on the car going to VOI and it snows or has serious rain issues - I'd get a Motel until the weather improves. Just FYI.

Ted

 

[GDog]

Drive what the car gives you and drive accordingly. Different tires will allow you to carry more speed but you only learn how to do that by going to the track and get coaching.

Sean, you are doing it right by taking your new car to track and learning it in a controlled environment. Props to you!

 

[fireball]

Drive what the car gives you and drive accordingly. Different tires will allow you to carry more speed but you only learn how to do that by going to the track and get coaching.

Sean, you are doing it right by taking your new car to track and learning it in a controlled environment. Props to you!

Right on.!
Drive what the car gives you.

Otherwise here's your fate.
Drive with runflats - spin. Blame the tires and get some PS2's
Drive with PS2's - spin. Blame the tires and get Sport Cups.
Drive with Sport Cups - spin. Blame the tires and get slicks.
Drive with slicks - spin. Hmmm - must be downforce, get a wing.
Drive with wing - spin. Blame the wing and get a splitter.

Keep going until you have a Formula 1 car or more likely that you run out of cash.

If I take my Miata to the track (which I often do) and I go into turn 1 at Viper speed and crash should I blame the car?

Drive what the car gives you - if you over drive the car, it's not the fault of the car.

Anyway Sean. It looked like a great time and I've seen your driving. It's excellent! We all make mistakes - especially in a competitive environment where you push much harder than you would on a 'track day'.

I personally think the run flats are decent tires. The PS2's are better and the Cups better yet. The cups, once up to temp are surprisingly good in the wet. I can do fater laps on a soaked track with cups than I can with PS2's! Anyway, having run flats is NOT a guaranteed crash.

Hopefully we'll see you at the track again this year!

Greg

 

[Rizzo]

Thanks for all the replies. I am under the firm belief that as the driver I am accountable. I plain screwed up and the video shows the results. Its the same as guns dont kill, people do. Speed doesnt kill but the idiot behind the wheel can sure turn a car into a lethal weapon in a hurry. I love going on the track and seeing what I can do and in this case I learned a lesson. Unfortunatley I'm a 6 or 7 hour drive from Calgary which is the only decent track anywhere near me so the glorified go kart track has to do. Its still fun but at slower speeds is all. After all was said and done I still had the fastest lap of the night out of all the cars and some of these guys are out there all the time.

Greg. If you are running consistant 1:20's then 1:19 is very possible. You better get it done before the end of next year or you'll never know. Think of it this way. You will go down in history as having the only stock car to EVER have gone around Race City in under 1:20 and after next summer no one will ever be able to beat it. They'll have to put up a monument of you and the ACR beside the new sewage laggon when they tear down the track...LOL.

 

[fireball]

Thanks for all the replies. I am under the firm belief that as the driver I am accountable. I plain screwed up and the video shows the results. Its the same as guns dont kill, people do. Speed doesnt kill but the idiot behind the wheel can sure turn a car into a lethal weapon in a hurry. I love going on the track and seeing what I can do and in this case I learned a lesson. Unfortunatley I'm a 6 or 7 hour drive from Calgary which is the only decent track anywhere near me so the glorified go kart track has to do. Its still fun but at slower speeds is all. After all was said and done I still had the fastest lap of the night out of all the cars and some of these guys are out there all the time.

Greg. If you are running consistant 1:20's then 1:19 is very possible. You better get it done before the end of next year or you'll never know. Think of it this way. You will go down in history as having the only stock car to EVER have gone around Race City in under 1:20 and after next summer no one will ever be able to beat it. They'll have to put up a monument of you and the ACR beside the new sewage laggon when they tear down the track...LOL.

Well... Remember last year when I said I wasn't giving anymore rides until I met my goal of a sub 1:20? Last August I ran a 1:19.5! BOOYA! Man I was happy. The track isn't getting any faster but with a fairly new set of tires, fresh brakes and some clear track I might be able to beat it. My car is 100% stock with the exception of a harness - even the brake pads and tires are stock. I keep checking everywhere I can and this seems to be the outright lap record for Race City in a street legal car. There's no question at all that it's the lap record for a stock car. Some race cars are faster (very, very few!) and there's one car that's NOT street legal and runs slicks that runs faster, but he does drive it to the track. Good for him.

It seems I held the previous record at 1:22.6 in a 1000hp Heffner Gallardo. I hated that car. Lot's of power, great brakes that didn't work like great brakes and a turbo hit that ruined the handling. I made the run for Modified Luxury Exotics Magazine so everything was well documented. So I beat the record by 3.1 seconds. I beat it right away but I didn't tell anyone until I'd met my goal of a sub 1:20.

Anyway, I know we'll see you at Race City again - maybe this year? I know VOI takes some time out of the season but I hope you can make it back.

BTW. FANTASTIC job getting the fast lap! It's not the best venue for a Viper but you obviously rocked it. Way to go!

Greg