Head Scratcher ... Dodge Can't Help ... Drive Cycle Readiness. Help?

[xRUSTYx]

Hey Guys ...

Background. Bought a 2003 Dodge SRT10 Vert almost a month ago. Clean Carfax/Auto Check (Serviced regularly throughout its life). No paint/body work and 100% stock. The car came with a Total of 5,100 miles. Last owner was the Dodge Dealership's owner.

Now, on to the head stumper.

Went to smog here in TN about 2 weeks ago. Failed due to "System/OBDII Readiness Test" .... Told me to go drive it around another 100-200 miles, and come back.

In the meantime, hooked up my scan gauge, no CEL's, but indeed, the system read's "Not Ready"

So, last week, put a good 200 miles on it alone, along with printing out directions on an OBDII Drive Cycle. Completed it 3 different times ....

Fast forward, I am now at almost 5,800 miles, system is still not ready.

Took it by our local dodge dealership ... They told me they'd try and do the same thing I was doing, and that was running a drive cycle.

Stopped by AutoZone for a more indepth OBDII Scan ... All (4) System Ready requirements are coming back as "INC" or Incomplete I believe. Read about a possible bad battery causing this -- Check battery health ... The battery is only 10 months old, and reads out perfect at 100% (12.7v).

So, now I sit her stumped. My temp registration ends on July 1st. I can get this system ready, and Dodge seemed less then helpful. Don't know where to go or what needs to be fixed if something does.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thank you in advance!

 

[Wolfc2e]

FYI: Not all drive cycles are created equal. Are you sure the drive cycle you printed out is correct for the Viper?

Consider posting this thread in the "Grail Trail" section Herb may have access to the correct cycle.

Also, you could consider a "readiness monitor" like the one described in the patent linked below:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=F8...AQ&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=obd-II&f=false

 

[Steve-Indy]

Did the dealer hook Viper to THEIR scan tool??

Might read through this link: http://www.aa1car.com/obd2help/

Good luck !!

 

[Wolfc2e]

Someone found success with this post:

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads...g-incomplete?p=2966462&viewfull=1#post2966462

 

[xRUSTYx]

FYI: Not all drive cycles are created equal. Are you sure the drive cycle you printed out is correct for the Viper?

Consider posting this thread in the "Grail Trail" section Herb may have access to the correct cycle.

Also, you could consider a "readiness monitor" like the one described in the patent linked below:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=F8...AQ&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=obd-II&f=false

Didn't find a "Drive Cycle" per say for a Dodge Viper. Found a couple for Dodge Viper Trucks, and tried those. Also tried a Generic OBDII Drive Cycle a couple times. Both didn't help, and not a single system - according to (2) scanning tools reports not a single monitor is "ready" ... I'd understand if 1 or 2 were holding it back, but not all of them.

I'll cross post this there, thanks Wolf

Did the dealer hook Viper to THEIR scan tool??

Might read through this link: http://www.aa1car.com/obd2help/

Good luck !!

No, the dealership didn't. I figured the Dodge Dealership just had a standard OBDII Scanner like an Actron or Innova.

AA1Car is where I got one of the "Drive Cycle" examples. Didn't help

 

[xRUSTYx]

Someone found success with this post:

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads...g-incomplete?p=2966462&viewfull=1#post2966462

Yup, that's the exact same Drive Cycle I ran about 2-3 times. No success.

 

[Brian E]

For some reason I can't open the link to the drive cycle above, but in case what I have is different, I will post it below. I had a battery change on my 2010 and it took about 150 miles of driving before it showed the systems were ready. One quick note. You don't have to hook up a scan tool to know if the system is ready. When you turn your key to the on position the MIL will flash 4 times after 15 seconds if it isn't ready. If it remains solid, you are good to proceed for testing.To perform an OBDII Driving cycle do the following:1. Cold StartIn order to be classified as a cold start the engine coolant temperature must be below 50ºC (122ºF) and within 6ºC (11ºF) of the ambient air temperature at startup. Do not leave the key on prior to the cold start or the heated oxygen sensor diagnostic may not run.2. IdleThe engine must be run for two and a half minutes with the air conditioner on maximum and rear defroster on. The more electrical load you can apply the better. This will test the O2 heater, Passive Air, Purge "No Flow", Misfire and if closed loop is achieved, Fuel Trim.3. AccelerateTurn off the air conditioner and all the other loads and apply half throttle until 88km/hr (55mph) is reached. During this time the Misfire, Fuel Trim, and Purge Flow diagnostics will be performed.4. Hold Steady SpeedHold a steady speed of 88km/hr (55mph) for 3 minutes. During this time the O2 response, air Intrusive, EGR, Purge, Misfire, and Fuel Trim diagnostics will be performed.5. DecelerateLet off the accelerator pedal. Do not shift, touch the brake or clutch. It is important to let the vehicle.coast along gradually slowing down to 32km/hr (20 mph). During this time the EGR, Purge and Fuel Trim diagnostics will be performed.6. AccelerateAccelerate at 3/4 throttle until 88-96 km/hr (55-60mph). This will perform the same diagnostics as in step 3.7. Hold Steady SpeedHold a steady speed of 88km/hr (55mph) for five minutes. During this time, in addition to the diagnostics performed in step 4, the catalyst monitor diagnostics will be performed. If the catalyst is marginal or the battery has been disconnected, it may take 5 complete driving cycles to determine the state of the catalyst.8. DecelerateThis will perform the same diagnostics as in step 5. Again, don't press the clutch or brakes or shift gears.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Dodge dealer's scan tools (DRB III, StarSCAN, StarMOBILE, wiTECH) are quite specific...may be able to see stored codes before MIL turns on...and, can see "live action" in many cases which might be of help. Just a thought.

You could also move to Indiana !!!

 

[ViperGeorge]

The EVAP system is the one that takes the longest to run. I believe, in addition to what Brian E says above, the gas tank must be between 15 and 85% full. Over or under and the test will not run. I drove like a 1000 miles in my Gen 3 and this stupid test never ran, fortunately in MA where I used to live, it didn't have to run to pass.

 

[swexlin]

Are you sure it has the stock PCM? Because if it has the Mopar Race PCM (and you weren't aware of it) it will NEVER show ready. Don't ask me how I know....

 

[345s-bspinnin]

I had a similar experience whereby the I/M Readiness where never ready. Check your odometer and see if it is getting reset after each drive cycle. If so, its an indicator that there is very low voltage drop at start-up and thus causing the PCM and odometer to reset. My car never started heavy, but yet I was having deep voltage drops at start-up. I purchased a new battery, and all my I/M Readiness were ready after a few short drives totaling less than 200 miles.

Good luck.

 

[Viper Specialty]

As said above, confirm it is a stock PCM. However, it is also possible it has been reflashed with an SCT tool- if you turn off certain Cat functions, you have the same issue you are having.

 

[ninjakris]

Final GTS has a good point. Does your skip-shift light come on? Most people have their skip-shift dissables when using a SCT tuner (I know I did). It might be a quick way to tell if you are running stock or not. You might also have the dealership flash your PCM - if it is possible. Keep us updated.

 

[bluesrt]

The EVAP system is the one that takes the longest to run. I believe, in addition to what Brian E says above, the gas tank must be between 15 and 85% full. Over or under and the test will not run. I drove like a 1000 miles in my Gen 3 and this stupid test never ran, fortunately in MA where I used to live, it didn't have to run to pass.

correct, and also 1 freebee drivecycle is start up car cold,let idle for about 10 to 15 minutes, this should set one of them, the converters also take a long time, i usually drive around 55 to 60 mph on hiway for about 35 40 minutes without stopping..

 

[xRUSTYx]

Thanks for all the help so far guys!

1) The battery - Mopar Battery - Is about 10 months old. With that said, I'm gonna replace it with a Diehard Platinum tomorrow. Thinking this COULD be the culprit.

2) Yes, the skip-shift light does come on. How am I able to tell if its a stock PCM or Mopar Race? As stated, car was entirely stock down to the stock runflat tires [Manuf: 8/2003] (which are getting replaced) I highly doubt its not a stock PCM

3) Hoping to figure this out by myself. The Dodge Dealership seemed like they really didn't care to help ... :-/ ...

 

[xRUSTYx]

The EVAP system is the one that takes the longest to run. I believe, in addition to what Brian E says above, the gas tank must be between 15 and 85% full. Over or under and the test will not run. I drove like a 1000 miles in my Gen 3 and this stupid test never ran, fortunately in MA where I used to live, it didn't have to run to pass.

Done ... Kept it at right around 50% full

correct, and also 1 freebee drivecycle is start up car cold,let idle for about 10 to 15 minutes, this should set one of them

Done & Done ... Went overboard with this - Had to feed the newborn and sat it idling yesterday morning for a good 20-30 minutes! lol

 

[HPATTERN]

Had same problems with my Viper. Installed Sears Platinum battery problem fixed. Which dealer did you go to?

 

[Camfab]

In CA it's the sellers responsibillity to have the car smogged. I suspect it's the same in your state, check your DMV. Did the transaction go through the dealership? I don't believe a vehicle can be transferred without the smog, even if it's sold without a warranty. Your state may be different, but I would check on this.

 

[xRUSTYx]

Had same problems with my Viper. Installed Sears Platinum battery problem fixed. Which dealer did you go to?

Dodge Dealership in Madison. Who do you use HPattern? Also - You're Local! Would love to meet up with you some time! I'm up in Hendersonville/Goodlettsville.

Picking up a new battery, but also getting new tires, so the SRT will be up in the air for a week or two.

In CA it's the sellers responsibillity to have the car smogged. I suspect it's the same in your state, check your DMV. Did the transaction go through the dealership? I don't believe a vehicle can be transferred without the smog, even if it's sold without a warranty. Your state may be different, but I would check on this.

Huh? When I lived in California - I always smogged as the buyer. Then again, it was always private party. Did laws change?

Viper was picked up in AR (they don't have smog reg's there) ...

 

[Dan Cragin]

It seems to me there was a reflash for the early 03 Viper's to get the car to pass the evaporative monitor. Do you want me to check?

 

[xRUSTYx]

Looks like my PCM was reflashed in Dec 2003. No details though, and found this today while poking around. Tucked up on the hood.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Steve-Indy]

FYI...I remembered that our 2003 had a PCM re-flash early on...as many
owners of 2003's reported a "bog" during medium acceleration. Your Viper MAY
have had the same one.

Here is a quote from page 4 of an old thread in Nov. 2003 that is the first
real indentification of the TSB for the issue:

Re: Bog between 1st and 2nd gear

"I checked with my local dealer recently... There is a TSB out with
the following title:

It's for the 2003MY Viper V-10:

18-035-03 HESITATION ON THROTTLE
TIP-IN AFTER PROLONGED CLOSED THROTTLE

It reflashes the engine controller
with all prior updates and an update to "De-Bog" your bog... and it updates the
part number to 04865501AI (The AI part is the important part). Go get it if you
need it. "
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Below is a link to that original thread. NOTE that "PVO" was the
new name assigned to the old "Team Viper"...all of which was finally renamed
"SRT" at a later date. Note also that "GR8 ASP" (Ron, who as I recall, worked
in the engine cooling area at Chrysler) did a LOT to articulate this problem and
document the issue (along with MANY Viper owners ...especially Vic, Russ,
others)... to provide PVO with REAL data !!

Here is the original thread: http://forums.viperclub.org/threads...t-and-2nd-gear?highlight=mid-range+hesitation
​

 

[xRUSTYx]

Thanks Steve!

I tried googling the TSB but didn't come back with anything. Didn't think to add a "0" before the "4"!

Thanks ... & I wonder if the reflash did something to where it won't smog. From the carfax, this car has never been in a state where emissions had to be tested. So I would be the first to notice if indeed the reflash did something...

Hmmmm .....

 

[Steve-Indy]

Here is a link to the NHTSA site for TSB's...plug in your model info and see a brief notation on all of them for your year:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/tsbsearch.cfm

 

[ViperGeorge]

Thanks Steve!

I tried googling the TSB but didn't come back with anything. Didn't think to add a "0" before the "4"!

Thanks ... & I wonder if the reflash did something to where it won't smog. From the carfax, this car has never been in a state where emissions had to be tested. So I would be the first to notice if indeed the reflash did something...

Hmmmm .....

Very unlikely in my opinion.

 

[Garron]

This is very easy to solve with a Chrysler scan tool and someone who knows how to use it. You can see what has not passed and the tool will actually tell you under what conditions to drive the vehicle so it can do it's tests. I can pass all the monitors on a viper with a ten minute drive.

Take the car to someone who will not waste your time, re-flash the computer if it has a tune.

Good luck

 

[xRUSTYx]

Alright guys ...

After *numerous* drive cycles .... And about 800 miles, we are down to 1 last system that needs to be readied. The EVAP System is currently "Incomplete". All other systems are "Ready/OK"

Any other ideas on how to get the EVAP system readied?

 

[Garron]

The enabling conditions are:

Fuel level between 15% to 85%
Engine coolant temperature sensor and intake temperature sensor have to read within 10f of each other
Ambient temperature between 40-90F

If you have covered all of the above you have a problem with something in the evap system. A detection pump, purge valve, line leak or gas cap.

If it is the leak detection pump do not let the tech cut the trunk pan like the instructions say in the shop manual, you can get it from under the car.

A Chrysler technician can force the monitor with a factory scan tool. He would be able to see exactly what the problem is after a 15 min test.

Garrett

 

[xRUSTYx]

Thanks Garron ...

If there was a pump or valve issue, wouldn't a CEL show up? I'm getting no CEL's and everything looks A OK outside of the readiness

 

[Garron]

Evap stuff can take while to set and it has to fail twice to set a light.