Head Scratcher ... Dodge Can't Help ... Drive Cycle Readiness. Help?

[TrackAire]

Hey Swexlin,

That's what I'm afraid of

No, there is no exemption, atleast from talking with the DMV/County Clerk/Smog Check. Been to the county clerks office 3 times. The last time, I begged just to title the car as a non operation vehicle in my name so I could pay tax. Once I get it titled in my name, I can offload it (trade it in) -- I can't trade it in until that point. The clerk told me, to title the vehicle, it must pass smog - period. The sad part is, she only has 6400 total miles now, and is in brand new shape.

Do not waste your time trying to sue Dodge, your problem is with the person that sold you the car. You'll have much better luck suing them. If they are a dealer, it's a done deal.

Good luck,
George

 

[bluesrt]

cat and evap are the hardest to set, you have to drive the car with over half tank of gas but not full for evap or it wont set, cat- and evap, drive the car about 60 mph for 45 minutes without stopping, should go. i dont think you need a computer if those are the only two still not set....

 

[Mike Adams]

The Results - Readiness Monitors are still resetting. Voltage is dropping to 9.1v upon startup (12.6v prior -- 13.7v during). The weird part - The entire PCM isn't resetting, just the monitors. Radio station's along with trip computer are not resetting.

That is still a large drop on start up. Have you buddy a chrysler check you starter draw. Car has been sitting allot, startermay be seizing up causing starter to draw allot. i found AC Delco Batteries to work best. Alarm system draws battery down when stilling, plug a battery tender in when sitting and not being used between drive cycles.

 

[bluesrt]

yes that battery can show good on top, when loading it, it can break down and reset the moniters in your computer. get the volt problem solved,then set the moniters, read my post up a few on the cat and evap

 

[xRUSTYx]

Do not waste your time trying to sue Dodge, your problem is with the person that sold you the car. You'll have much better luck suing them. If they are a dealer, it's a done deal.

Good luck,
George

Not sure how that would work, considering the dealer I purchased it from in Arkansas doesn't require smog :-/

cat and evap are the hardest to set, you have to drive the car with over half tank of gas but not full for evap or it wont set, cat- and evap, drive the car about 60 mph for 45 minutes without stopping, should go. i dont think you need a computer if those are the only two still not set....

1,500 miles on the car since I've owned it trying to get these monitors set. Monitors reset after 2-3 startups -- Confirmed via the DRB tool. It shows a reset taking place after every 2-3 startups. Most monitors never set, but on rare occassions -- the PCM won't reset for 4-5 runs, and normally the EVAP and Htd Oxygen are left. I'll run through the suggest drive cycles posted here, run back to dodge, and by that time, its been reset again. This is more a PCM reset issue over the monitor readiness issue.

That is still a large drop on start up. Have you buddy a chrysler check you starter draw. Car has been sitting allot, startermay be seizing up causing starter to draw allot. i found AC Delco Batteries to work best. Alarm system draws battery down when stilling, plug a battery tender in when sitting and not being used between drive cycles.

I'm familiar with classic starter symptoms, but I've had none with this viper. I check the starter current draw today

yes that battery can show good on top, when loading it, it can break down and reset the moniters in your computer. get the volt problem solved,then set the moniters, read my post up a few on the cat and evap

The battery is a brand new Diehard Platinum. The one everyone on these boards recommends.... No mattery what battery is in the vehicle, this issue still occurs.

 

[Mike Adams]

Just talked to my mechanic who just completed testing yesterday with Ontario testing. Chyrsler computer has no watch battery incase it drops too low. You need to find out how low it can drop according to chrysler. Most cars cannot go below 11 volts on start up according to his repair manauls. Worse on this car battery cable is so long more resistance.

 

[InjectTheVenom]

Another guy on here seems to have a problem with his EEM drawing too much of a charge maybe that is your problem also?

 

[TAXIMAN1]

XRusty, maybe a dumb question. But, did you check your cigarette lighter fuse? I had a 2006 Coupe that failed NJ inspection for this exact reason. And it was a blown fuse that would not power the OBD connecton, which is linked to your cig lighter. just a thought.

 

[xRUSTYx]

Just an update ...

Chrysler has shipped the dealership (2) different PCM's. The issue being, neither one has the correct software, and throws codes immediately upon installation. The funny part, each one throws a different set of codes. I put my original back in = No codes, just the monitor issues ...

We've hooked it up to the DRB plenty of times to confirm it is a PCM issue.

We are now waiting on PCM #3

 

[JAY]

WOW ! Interesting article , good luck with the new pcm !

 

[xRUSTYx]

We are at 5.5 months and counting ...

Atleast I got to wash her on Saturday. She's lonely sitting in the garage week after week, month after month ...

 

[bluesrt]

Just an update ...

Chrysler has shipped the dealership (2) different PCM's. The issue being, neither one has the correct software, and throws codes immediately upon installation. The funny part, each one throws a different set of codes. I put my original back in = No codes, just the monitor issues ...

We've hooked it up to the DRB plenty of times to confirm it is a PCM issue. ((((((((((((( DOES THE PCM RE-SET DRIVEING DOWN THE ROAD? HAVE YOU DETECTED THIS WITH A MONITER? OR IS IT RE-SETTING UPON START-UP? if its on start-up, i would say its loosing proper battery voltage and clearing the computer each time

 

[Viper Specialty]

For what its worth, we can re-flash your software with SCT any time you want, and simply over-write any of the PCM's with the correct software for the car.

However, I for one am very curious to know what the PCM processor code [PCM Part Number] was on the replacement PCM's that were wrong, as well as which MIL codes they were popping on installation.

Mark my words, there is more going on here than meets the eye.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Check your battery cables. One of our local guys had his car going dead. He replaced battery but the problem turned out to be a loose battery cable somewhere near the battery but not on the battery.

 

[NO HEMI]

Did you call chuck tator???

 

[Dan Cragin]

This should be an easy fix. I deal with CARB readiness failures all the time. We put the car through a drive cycle on the dyno, then force it to run the evaporative tests. Unless there is something else wrong with the car, its pretty simple.

 

[Viper Specialty]

This should be an easy fix. I deal with CARB readiness failures all the time. We put the car through a drive cycle on the dyno, then force it to run the evaporative tests. Unless there is something else wrong with the car, its pretty simple.

I don't know Dan, this seems suspect. The first thing that crossed my mind is that the PCM in the car has been reflashed at some point to eliminate certain CEL's, and as a result, will no longer run the monitors. That would also explain why going back to a different PCM would cause immediate CEL's. You can put any 2003/4/5/6 PCM in the car, and it should not pop a CEL immediately in just about any case I can think of, and I find it hard to believe they supplied him a Gen-1/2 PCM by mistake. The only loophole that could make sense would be a truck PCM rather than a car by accident, but the correct year.

Either way, but not engaging someone from the aftermarket like yourself or us, and relying on a dealer that does not know about aftermarket possibilities- its no wonder this is sitting unsolved.

 

[ViperGeorge]

I don't know Dan, this seems suspect. The first thing that crossed my mind is that the PCM in the car has been reflashed at some point to eliminate certain CEL's, and as a result, will no longer run the monitors. That would also explain why going back to a different PCM would cause immediate CEL's. You can put any 2003/4/5/6 PCM in the car, and it should not pop a CEL immediately in just about any case I can think of, and I find it hard to believe they supplied him a Gen-1/2 PCM by mistake. The only loophole that could make sense would be a truck PCM rather than a car by accident, but the correct year.

Either way, but not engaging someone from the aftermarket like yourself or us, and relying on a dealer that does not know about aftermarket possibilities- its no wonder this is sitting unsolved.

Dan, Based on what the OP said it sounds like the PCM is spontaneously reseting itself. Like it suddenly sees a very low voltage as though the battery was disconnected. It appears, based on what he has posted, that the voltage drops or the PCM resets after starting.

 

[Garron]

We are at 5.5 months and counting ...

Atleast I got to wash her on Saturday. She's lonely sitting in the garage week after week, month after month ...

This frustrating to watch, this just keeps getting dragged on. You need to take this car to someone who works on and is familiar with a viper. You are wasting your time.

 

[Dan Cragin]

The easiest way to see if the computer is reseting at start-up is to look at "starts since reset". If it reads 0 then the computer is reseting. PCM voltage can be checked at the PCM during cranking. If it drops too low you have a supply or voltage drop issue. This is all stuff that the dealer techs should be to check quickly.


Dan is correct, either they are sending the wrong computer or the present computer has been flashed to get rid of a hard fault.


I would be happy to this computer tested, read the file and test it on another car.

 

[vpower01]

You said its stock? No after market exhaust? Because if there are no cats maybe the dealer did something to the PCM to pass smog.
I would just send it to dan and have him test it out then you know for sure if you have a PCM problem or not.

 

[viper04]

You said its stock? No after market exhaust? Because if there are no cats maybe the dealer did something to the PCM to pass smog.
I would just send it to dan and have him test it out then you know for sure if you have a PCM problem or not.

+1 on that one. He know what he's talking about.

 

[vprtech]

I've diagnosed many of these reset issues (on Vipers), and I think most everyone here has outlined many of the possible causes. I will add that your are potentially dealing with two separate issues. Regarding the reset, I have run across faulty ecus having this issue, but normally not on a GEN3, in fact, I don't think I've ever seen a GEN3 have this problem due to a faulty ecu, only GEN2's. When diagnosing a reset issue, what I typically do is use the lab scope to record the voltage trace while cranking at the ecu. If memory serves me correctly, the voltage cannot dip below eight volts without getting a memory reset. It's important to measure this voltage first at the ecu, and if you have a problem with low voltage, then work yourself back and check the voltage drop through the ground and power feed side until you find the culprit. If you don't have access to a lab scope, you can use a good multimeter that has a min/max feature which will record the minimum and maximum voltage peaks.

Regarding the monitors themselves, evap is, as others have mentioned, the hardest one to pass. Also keep in mind that if you have downstream O2 sims, your heater monitor will never run. Also, the heater monitor will only run if the engine coolant temp is within a few degrees of ambient temp, and the throttle is closed. In other words, to run the heater test, start the car after it has sat overnight and let it sit and idle for at least a minute.

 

[xRUSTYx]

Well, PCM #3 came in -- and it's throwing codes left and right. This case has been escalated via the Star system, and now Mopar is looking in to their parts suppliers.

The problem lies in the software we are getting with the new PCM's. Many come in as AJ/AK/etc... when what is needed is AI (or an older version). From my understanding, dealerships can flash or update software, but they can't backtrack. Now, if this car were an 04 or 05 with newer software, the new PCM's with the updated software may infact work. They just don't on my 03.

As soon as a new PCM is installed with new software, 2-4 DIFFERENT CEL's go off. The funny part, each PCM has DIFFERENT CEL's that go off. We've gone over every nook, cranny, and sensor in this car. All are up to ***** and the car itself now has a whopping, 6,000 miles on it.

The problem with the original PCM is this. Readiness monitors would not "OK" themselves. After 3-4 startups, the PCM would spontaneously reset. There were no underlying issues as far as voltage drop, battery, starter, cable issues. All were checked, rechecked, and I even replaced the battery with a new Diehard Platinum. When a DRB would be hooked up, it would show, no ill signs or issues ... After 3-4 startups, a reset would occur. Now, I'm not sure if this reset took place on startup, or while driving. I have wanted to risk driving the vehicle around UNTITLED and trying to explain my way out of it. For now, its only been going back and forth to the dealer which is about a 10 mile round trip drive via country roads.

Dan ... Next time I stop by the dealership, I'll get the CEL #'s for you. As stated, they have all been different on all 3 PCM's. This last one wouldn't even kick on the fan when needed. Supposedly, these PCM's were ALL Brand New, not refurbs.

I'm pushing for a Mopar tech from HQ to fly out and take care of.

 

[xRUSTYx]

I've diagnosed many of these reset issues (on Vipers), and I think most everyone here has outlined many of the possible causes. I will add that your are potentially dealing with two separate issues. Regarding the reset, I have run across faulty ecus having this issue, but normally not on a GEN3, in fact, I don't think I've ever seen a GEN3 have this problem due to a faulty ecu, only GEN2's. When diagnosing a reset issue, what I typically do is use the lab scope to record the voltage trace while cranking at the ecu. If memory serves me correctly, the voltage cannot dip below eight volts without getting a memory reset. It's important to measure this voltage first at the ecu, and if you have a problem with low voltage, then work yourself back and check the voltage drop through the ground and power feed side until you find the culprit. If you don't have access to a lab scope, you can use a good multimeter that has a min/max feature which will record the minimum and maximum voltage peaks.

Regarding the monitors themselves, evap is, as others have mentioned, the hardest one to pass. Also keep in mind that if you have downstream O2 sims, your heater monitor will never run. Also, the heater monitor will only run if the engine coolant temp is within a few degrees of ambient temp, and the throttle is closed. In other words, to run the heater test, start the car after it has sat overnight and let it sit and idle for at least a minute.

Thanks for chiming in vprtech .... We've checked voltage via a multimeter at grounding points, cable leads, the battery -- Cranking/recranking. There's no drop large enough to reset the PCM.

The car starts up great at the first crank. No huffing/puffing/sputtering or retries.

She may be a brick sitting in my garage, but she is MY brick, and I still love her just the same I have no doubt the issues will get resolved one way or another, I just wish they were sooner rather than later

Thanks everyone for your continued support through this! Its been great, and I've learned more about my Viper NOT driving it & trying to diagnose everything, than probably most viper owners/drivers LOL ... I can pick apart just about everything under the hood ... It's certainly been a learning experience, and when the time comes that I can actually drive & enjoy it, I'll be SUPER stoked!

 

[InjectTheVenom]

Looks like the bug is somewhere else in the electrical system, kind of feels like something is shorting out somehow.

 

[eucharistos]

.....She may be a brick sitting in my garage, but she is MY brick, and I still love her just the same ......

good man

please keep posting up your progress

 

[xRUSTYx]

Looks like the bug is somewhere else in the electrical system, kind of feels like something is shorting out somehow.

I could see this as a possibility. Especially seeing no added resistance anywhere ... But I'm believe the PCM is just faulty or the electrical issue is sitting within its metal housing

good man

please keep posting up your progress

Thanks eucharistos

I get to see her beauty when I wash her Here she is in all her glory

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[Herc]

I am having similar issues with an 06 coupe I just bought, had 3 sensors "not ready" o2, o2 heater and evap. The o2 is ready now after a few drives but the os heater and
evap still show not ready, I have full Belanger with rear o2 sims so it sounds like the os heat will never show ready. In Utah they will pass with one not ready so I need to get
the evap ready, will try the idle for longer than a few minutes.

Herc

 

[Viper Specialty]

Dan ... Next time I stop by the dealership, I'll get the CEL #'s for you. As stated, they have all been different on all 3 PCM's. This last one wouldn't even kick on the fan when needed. Supposedly, these PCM's were ALL Brand New, not refurbs.

And I can get you a proper working code on an SCT device to reflash ANY of them in less than 10 minutes, and test this theory. I am betting there is still more than meets the eye, but its not impossible.

For what its worth; If you want your car fixed, ask businesses who specialize in Vipers. If you want the run-around and a nice garage ornament, keep dealing with the dealership on this one. Most dealerships do not have the knowledge or resources to solve something like this, and even fewer have knowledge of the aftermarket offerings and solutions.

You have been dealing with this issue since June- how much is driving your car worth to you? I can gaurantee I could have solved this issue, parts ordering, all-in... in less than a week, without poking, proding, waiting, and guessing.