HEADER SCAM ...DEAL OF A LIFETIME

[Viper23]

Hey Jon:
I respect you and what you have done, but I don't think that stupidity or naive who explain this situation. I was told by what I thought was a respectful business. If a business told me that they can do something (especially that we are such a small community), I would take it as is.

Also, should you do that google search, it comes to page with the B&B headers and the Belanger headers.

I have bought stuff from you before and was very happy. The reason why I did not call you first was because I was actually looking for B&B headers and did not see them on your website so I started looking. That was how I stumbled onto that company. I will end up going back to B&B headers and buy it from one of the site supporters.

And I don't think you are taking advantage of the situation, I think you are just being a great business minded person.

 

[Torquemonster]

Viper23: It's easy to get sucked into a scam like that when you assume people are honest. It's horrible we live in a world that we can't always assume they are honest.

Thanks to those that checked back direct to source.

 

[J DAWG]

I have no idea what who said what...only what I wrote and said. So I can't vouch for someone else. I also don't know why he he would say give the CC# to me. I got about 60-70PMs total and I repleid to all of them and never did I ask for a CC#. I don't know this Scott person personally. I went onto google and put in "Dodge Viper" "B&B headers" and they are the only ones that showed up, so that is how I got their website.

[/QUOTE]

A) Google "B+B Headers and Dodge Viper" and somehow came up with Belangers?!
Google is busted!

B) "Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by [naivete or] stupidity"

C) 70 *** resulting in 50% buying = $51,800 for someone, up front. Some were vendors wanting to buy below cost? Many people have been killed for way less.

D) If there are really 60+ folks that want Belanger Gen1-2 1.75" fully coated, SS-bolted, cat-turnouts, 3" WITH 2 HF cats, delivered to your door, no tax, under $2000, please email me. No fakes. Warrateed. Contingency $$ at the drags. We even help pay for this site. My sincere thanks...

YES, I am taking advantage of this situation I guess. But 70+ mesages to an unknown with no name or address? I WANT IN !

[/QUOTE]

Here is your quote from the other thread -

JON B said

C) 3 of you who calld me for a header-cats package deal were stunned that PartsRack's package price is less than $100 off this "TOO GOOD 2 B TRU" price.

What headers cats are you talking about. This is about Belanger headers and the "Deal of a lifetime" was $1480, SOOOOOOOO if you are less than $100 from this deal.....speak up.


What are you selling as far as headers and cats for less than $1580 ???

From what I see above you have jumped to 2 grand. Did I miss something???

 

[2BADD 4U]

Good Question, as I can add more.....

 

[BigCarrot]

I think he meant that when packaged with cats, the price of the headers alone is $1580ish.

 

[J DAWG]

I think he meant that when packaged with cats, the price of the headers alone is $1580ish.

BC, after reading it several times and even speaking with him a week or so ago, he is talking about a "package" deal. Headers and cats. . I am interested to hear what 1.75 headers plus cats he can sell for LESS THAN $1580. That is what he wrote. He said he is LESS THAN $100 away from this deal on his "package price."

 

[RMSVIPER]

Posting in response to this.

1. We do not sell knock off Headers.
2. I have never scammed anyone and never will.
3. The price was between my company and the end customer. Which now I can say is wrong. $1795 is the price on the headers.

Any body is welcome to contact me directly if they would like more information. Thanks!

Scot Hail
Redline Motorsports
970-221-4805
www.4redlinemotorsports.com
Fort Collins, Colorado

 

[Big Medicine]

Once again this board arrives at a conclusion without methodically laying out all the facts & without separating fact from fiction. Maybe it's a scam, maybe it's not, but I wouldn't be patting myself on the back just yet.

Always two sides to every story, & somewhere in between is the truth.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Keep in mind folks, that when you are dealing with one of the classiest acts in the performance industry ( Lou Belanger ), he and his family have wholesalers and contacts they have built up over 50 years of unparalled service. We have supplied their systems to alot of you folks, at a very fair price, but we purchase alot from Lou and company. There is no way a highly legitimate and innovative header company would risk all of their long time partners by selling to 10 folks in a group buy at a price lower than we can get them at. I told this to Dave in Pennsylvania and he was sharp enough to check other sources. The end result is that many of us in the Viper Community may sell you products, but we also look after our own. Belanger will continue to sell what we personally feel is the best Viper Header on the market, and we suggest you all buy from those you know, as this is protection/piece of mind along with the service you desire.


Respectfully,
Bill Pemberton
Woodhouse Viper

 

[joe117]

So it look's like viper23 was scamming us after all. There never was a deal for 10 sets @ $1480 each.

RMSVIPER just told us the $1480 price was wrong and he sells the Belanger headers for $1795.
And he says these are real Belanger headers.

So there you go, it was viper23 all along.

 

[Viper23]

Joe117:
Please read RMSVIPER's post really closely. And if you have still have doubt, please let me know and I will foward something to you that I got.
And when I prove it to you, please repost or edit your post.
Thanks

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

3. The price was between my company and the end customer. Which now I can say is wrong. $1795 is the price on the headers.

Parts Rack (Jon B) and BTR Racing (Tom) beat that price last year in the Belanger header price war. I know I benefited from it. That legendary thread has to be in the archives somewhere. They even were cutting each others shipping rates to pieces if I remember right.

 

[JonB]

I think he meant that when packaged with cats, the price of the headers alone is $1580ish.

Exactly...... when packaged with HF cats, Im very close on a legit deal!
The bottom line is, Belanger hiz-self says this was never a planned or possible deal. He told this to others here before ME apparently !


NO OFFENSE PLEASE:

There is some famous attributed quote, hence my use of quotes,
"Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity"
I forget the famous person who said it......I added [ or naivete ] so as not to imply someone was stupid. I am saying I never believed you were trying to scam someone.... I believe you yourself, the unknown unnamed seller, were misled or misunderstod as you have stated.

 

[Viper23]

I think he meant that when packaged with cats, the price of the headers alone is $1580ish.

Exactly...... when packaged with HF cats, Im very close on a legit deal!
The bottom line is, Belanger hiz-self says this was never a planned or possible deal. He told this to others here before ME apparently !


NO OFFENSE PLEASE:

There is some famous attributed quote, hence my use of quotes,
"Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity"
I forget the famous person who said it......I added [ or naivete ] so as not to imply someone was stupid. I am saying I never believed you were trying to scam someone.... I believe you yourself, the unknown unnamed seller, were misled or misunderstod as you have stated.

BTW Jon:
please let me know...you can PM if you like. How much is just for the headers. I already bought HF cats from you, so I have them.

 

[JonB]

D) If there are really 60+ folks that want Belanger Gen1-2 1.75" fully coated, SS-bolted, cat-turnouts, 3" WITH 2 HF cats, delivered to your door, no tax, under $2000, please email me. No fakes. Warrateed. Contingency $$ at the drags. We even help pay for this site. My sincere thanks...

This is what I said and exactly what I meant !
"WITH 2 HF CATS" is even in caps for emphasis.
Legit deal, from a known pair of VCA vendors: PartsRack and Belanger
Dont need 10+. 1 guy, 1 deal. Under $2000 delivered.
THANKS

Again, 123, that quote was not famous enuf I guess! I think you were NOT intending to scam, but maybe just Naive. I did NOT mean to imply otherwise, I apologize.

 

[JDR]

So it look's like viper23 was scamming us after all. There never was a deal for 10 sets @ $1480 each.

RMSVIPER just told us the $1480 price was wrong and he sells the Belanger headers for $1795.
And he says these are real Belanger headers.

So there you go, it was viper23 all along.

Joe117...
I'm not taking anyone's side, BUT...
If Viper23 was scamming the group, it's awful strange that RMS is acknowleding that there was some form of a "deal" between them.

At this point, I'm seeing Viper23 saying the "deal" was $1,480, and RMS saying it was $1,795.

--- a difference in price means something is wrong, but where? ---

I just see Viper23's actions are NOT similar to what we've seen of scammers. At worst, he was into a "deal" that wasn't as real as he thought when he told everone.

Whatever it is they are BOTH at fault to some degree - we all know now, so let's move off the "blame" part...

Any chance $1,480 is the 10-buyer price for B&B's?

If Viper23 was scamming us, he'd had NEVER told us the source, and RMS would claim they know nothing... not the case.

Personlly, these "buy as a group" deals are becoming tainted...
If the Group Buy on carbonfiber Door sill covers wasn't Vipermed, I'd say SCAM without even looking at his post.

 

[joe117]

Guys,
When RMS came on the thread and said that the price was wrong and that he didn't sell knock offs,
I figured he was saying that viper23 wasn't telling us the truth.
RMS was saying that the 10 unit deal for the real belangers was never offered to viper23 by RMS.

I don't know who to believe.

So I figured if I said,
"So it look's like viper23 was scamming us after all. There never was a deal for 10 sets @ $1480 each."

Then viper23 would defend himself and dispute the RMS claim.

I don't want a PM from anyone. I'd like to see the proof posted for everyone to see.

viper23,
If you want to clean this up. Post your correspondence with RMS.
After you do that the question will be,

How could RMS offer those Belanger headers for that price?

Was RMS planning on getting you to sell knock off headers?

I don't know, but if someone made me look like a crook I'd defend myself.

 

[2BADD 4U]

This is getting interesting......Since I am the only one who called rms and talked to scott(yesterday), here goes the story.......

I sent yet another pm to viper23 asking technical questions about the headers, and about shipping charges and such.....I was becoming very skeptical

After I recieved my pm from viper23, who stated that his "partner" could answer all my technical questions, and shipping charges, etc, he gave me scotts phone # in the pm.......

I called scott and talked to him for 15 minutes, He told me that Viper23 called him looking for headers, and he had asked for a group buy...He said that he would sell 10 sets @ 1480, and viper23 has 8 buyers so far...I would be the 9th. sucker....... So we chatted about vipers and headers, cats, sound ,etc... scott told me that when viper23 gets 10 guys, he will call him(scott) and start the deal....scott told me to email viper23, and then said oh "no" you cannot email him...you have to PM him...I don't have his email address, I said I don't either...

I asked about shipping and if I would have to wait weeks for the headers, scott replied saying..we are probably going to send out 2 or 3 headers at a time...depending on your location ..we will send like 2 or 3 sets to pa, ny, nj, areas first then send other sets randomly in other states....(states being close together is how I took it.)

He could not quote me shipping costs that I asked for..I said I live in Pa, how much for shipping? scott replied as $75 maybe $100... from AZ to Pa, because the headers will be drop shipped from Belanger to your home.......

scott, then said, when you are ready to buy, pm viper23 with your info, and payment choice...then states "oh I am not sure how we are going to do the payments as of yet"...you can call me back when you are ready to pay...and we will discuss it...


Ok Goodby....so there you have it....you figure it out.


So I am ready to pm viper23 with my info and the phone rings...Bill P to the rescue...then I talked to Lou Belanger personally..and he has no knowledge or anything to do with viper23 or rms.....and states it is a scam


I have had enough of this bs and this post...I am just glad that it got cut short before anybody got the shaft...

So thats all I can say..., were they "partners"? who is lieing?

Ya know what? I really don't care anymore, This was a good edcuation...



BONUS!!!!!!! I got a "GREAT" deal on Belanger Headers and R/T High Flow Cats tonight...and bought them...

Best, Dave

 

[J DAWG]

Guys,
When RMS came on the thread and said that the price was wrong and that he didn't sell knock offs,
I figured he was saying that viper23 wasn't telling us the truth.
RMS was saying that the 10 unit deal for the real belangers was never offered to viper23 by RMS.

I don't know who to believe.

So I figured if I said,
"So it look's like viper23 was scamming us after all. There never was a deal for 10 sets @ $1480 each."

Then viper23 would defend himself and dispute the RMS claim.

I don't want a PM from anyone. I'd like to see the proof posted for everyone to see.

viper23,
If you want to clean this up. Post your correspondence with RMS.
After you do that the question will be,

How could RMS offer those Belanger headers for that price?

Was RMS planning on getting you to sell knock off headers?

I don't know, but if someone made me look like a crook I'd defend myself.

Lou Belanger told me yesterday that RMS is not one of his recognized DEALERS.


So how could they be selling Belangers? Your above statements don't mean a thing when you take into account what Mr Belanger said.

 

[J DAWG]

This is a Statement you posted-

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JON B said

C) 3 of you who calld me for a header-cats package deal were stunned that PartsRack's package price is less than $100 off this "TOO GOOD 2 B TRU" price.


So what are you offering for LESS THAN $1580??? You reference the "TOO GOOD 2 B TRU" deal which was $1480 and you say YOUR "header-cats package deal" is LESS THAN $100 off that price.


What am I missing??? Is your deal 2 good 2 b tru?


ps - The headers war last year between partsrack and BTR was $1695 for the Belangers.

 

[FrankBarba]

JonB. guess i'm in....should i email you?

 

[J DAWG]

now I am really confused. very, very interesting read.

 

[2BADD 4U]

now I am really confused. very, very interesting read.

I think its kinda funny

Dave

 

[BadVenm]

I think he meant that when packaged with cats, the price of the headers alone is $1580ish.

Is anyone selling Belanger headers alone, no cats, for this $1,580.00 price listed above?

I can only find them listed on most of the websites for $1,795.00 for headers alone.

 

[Viper23]

I hope what I say here will help clear the issue. If it doesn't then I am sorry. I am just another Viper Owner who wanted to help his fellow Viper owners. I am not here to stir up anything or cause conflicts between anyone or any business. I have a few business myself and I would hate to lose a dealer or customers.

I would like to reiterate that I can not vouch for what any one said or what anyone else did. Should anyone that I emailed or PM can come up and show me proof that I ever asked for Money or Credit card info, then I am to blame (this is about 70 or so total). I don't want this to be he said she said thing. But should anyone had any doubt that I was making up this deal, then please read 2BADD4U's post regarding his conversation. I sent 2BADD4U about 2 *** prior to him sending me a PM informing me as what he discovered. And when I did not know the answers to his questions, I thought it would be best to give him a contact info. Then the rest was history. (I would like to thank him again for doing what he did).

I don't have headers and need a good set of headers. I was just calling companies that sold them and thought it was a good idea to ask about a "group deal" because I knew that others, like myself, have been looking for headers. Everyone is always looking for a "good deal", like Jon B said, "if it is too good to be true then maybe it is not." I am not saying that I am not at fault. I do appologize for causing any problems here.

I don't know what I can do or say to prove to everyone who is interested that I have no connections with RMS. What I can say is that I have never met anyone from RMS, never lived in CO, never have bought anything from RMS, or have heard of RMS before this. I can say that I live across the Pacific Ocean. I don't know what else I can say.

But again, I am sorry for any problems this may have caused. The most important thing I learned from all this is that "I should never judge anyone unless I know them personally". I have been on the otherside from you guys who what to know the truth. And I would make assumptions before I knew all the facts. All I can tell you is that you will never know how much it hurts until you are in my situation.

But like anything in life, I will move on. I just wish that you guys would know me personally and find out for yourself. But that is the problem with the internet. Everyone and anyone can hide behind the computer. I am here and will be here, so if anyone wants to come to HI for a visit, PM and I will take you out for a drink and show you anything you want to prove my innocence cause I have nothing to hide.

Again...I am very sorry for all this.

 

[Hirohawa]

Viper 23 emailed me after I PMed him about this deal. So he was not trying to hide his email address.

Also he never asked for my cc#.

It seems like he was just trying to make a good deal for us.

But you should post proof if you have any to kill any residual suspicion.

 

[joe117]

I don't think we should drop this until we find out who was planning on ripping off VCA folks on their own site.

What I'm getting at is this,

viper23 came on with a deal on Belanger headers at a good price.

Belanger says the deal at that price is not possible.

RMS is not a dealer for Bellanger headers.

RMS says the viper23 price was wrong, it is hundreds more.

So,
One of these two things must be true.

1. viper23 was offering a deal that RMS wasn't offering.
OR
2. RMS was planning on filling the orders with knock offs.

 

[2BADD 4U]

Hey Joe! you got a pm!

Yea, it sounded "shady" from start to finish. It is possible that they were "both" on the take.......or rms was scamming(by himself) with conterfit headers and making a killing ....

As per what scott "told me" on the phone, about him and viper23 needing 10 guys for the $1480... , BUT NOW he changed his story...why would he need 10 guys to buy them for $1795....... duh BS BS BS .......

He isn't even a Belanger dealer and Lou knows nothing of him...It isn't hard to figure out. Maybe we should have rms checked out by the vca members out there, and since he just told me that he added Belanger headers to a 2002 FE GTS,....... shouldn't be hard to find out!!!

Duh, the headers didn't come from Lou Belanger, what does that tell you....I think I'll check into the Colorado VCA members and who has a FE 02 GTS...or knows of one...

They are both history in my book.......and in a LOT of others! I just called scott back.... "Funny" he doesn,t pick up the phone, probably has caller id

Dave

 

[joe117]

So,
One of these two things must be true.

1. viper23 was offering a deal that RMS wasn't offering.
OR
2. RMS was planning on filling the orders with knock offs.

It was either viper23 or RMS or perhaps even both.
One thing seems to be true, there was a scam attempt.

 

[jcaspar1]

Posting in response to this.

1. We do not sell knock off Headers.
2. I have never scammed anyone and never will.
3. The price was between my company and the end customer. Which now I can say is wrong. $1795 is the price on the headers.

Viper23 never asked for my CC# or pushed the sale. Only quoted me a price. It seems to me from RMS's post that there was a deal that was "between my company and the end customer" "which now I can say is wrong". I don't think we will find out the whole story till RMS is up front with us.