How will the Gen V perform as a collectible that retains value over time?

Bruce H.

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I've enjoyed owning quite a few collectibles and each has either retained full value of what I paid for them, or appreciated. They were all purchased used when 5 or more years old after depreciation had worked its magic. We can see that the Gen V will depreciate as well, and perhaps at a typically rate for at least the first 2-3 years, but what do you Viper aficionados predict for the Gen V models? And perhaps you can comment on how previous Gens have performed as collectible investments that one can enjoy for those of us new to the brand.

How well have used Viper values done compared to other special interest performance cars with MSRP below $200k?

Bruce
 

FLL-B/W-GTS

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How could some thing(Gen 5) be possibility considered a collectible in the future when they can not sell them when they are new..If you want a collectible Viper,get a Gen.2 Blue and
White GTS or the White Gen.2 Special Edition...
 

ViperSmith

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Doubtful. I just hope it holds value as well as other Vipers have. Not many cars can be 16yo and worth half what you paid for it.

The FGT seems to be the exception to the rule.
 

kdaviper

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How could some thing(Gen 5) be possibility considered a collectible in the future when they can not sell them when they are new..If you want a collectible Viper,get a Gen.2 Blue and
White GTS or the White Gen.2 Special Edition...
really? because they've sold close to 600 (out of 800 built) so far, in half a model year(starting in late April) while missing out on the spring sales rush. All the comments about not selling came from the fact that CAAP slowed production during winter months, which is a normal thing.
 

kdaviper

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Can you see a special edition of the Gen V becoming collectible and holding its value once it has depreciated initially?
Yeah, peer inside that crystal ball of yours and predict the state of the economy 40 years from now and the desirability of this specific car.
 

FinalEd357

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I think an orange TA will be highly desirable if it is the only orange model they build......
 
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VENOM V

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Can you see a special edition of the Gen V becoming collectible and holding its value once it has depreciated initially?

Bruce, you're asking the wrong guy. FLL likes to come on the Gen V forum just to tell everyone how superior his Turbo Porsche and the new C7 Corvette are the to Gen V. Just ask him. You're not going to get an unbiased answer from him.

I personally have no idea if the Gen V will hold value relatively well, but certainly not in the short term with so many on the lots. I would guess long term some special models would, perhaps the Orange TA and the Stryker Red will. But I typically buy any performance car as a play toy knowing that it's probably never going to hold value. Years ago, my father kept a Ferrari for a long while (15 years?) and sold it for what he paid for it.
 

PeerBlock

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I've enjoyed owning quite a few collectibles and each has either retained full value of what I paid for them, or appreciated. They were all purchased used when 5 or more years old after depreciation had worked its magic. We can see that the Gen V will depreciate as well, and perhaps at a typically rate for at least the first 2-3 years, but what do you Viper aficionados predict for the Gen V models? And perhaps you can comment on how previous Gens have performed as collectible investments that one can enjoy for those of us new to the brand.

How well have used Viper values done compared to other special interest performance cars with MSRP below $200k?

Bruce

That's really like asking which stock you can buy for $1 a share now that will be worth $500 per share in a few years...no real way to know. You could estimate the "collectibility" value of a car by looking at the elements that known collectibles have in common.

- Tied to an interesting heritage. Check.
- Unique emotional and aesthetic appeal. Check.
- Limited production and availability. Check.
- Has a strong, devoted community that includes both owners and fans. Check.
- Famous and well-known in its time. Sorta.
- Nostalgic value. No Check because it's too new.

Some or all of these elements come into play and cars that appreciate in value do so almost entirely based on the emotional reaction they instill. I wouldn't consider a car a financial investment, ever, because it's not liquid - meaning that you would not be able to convert it to cash in a short time. You could look at it as a cultural or pleasure investment - in which case you are paying money in exchange for the awesomeness the Gen 5 exudes and that's a guaranteed return. Even so I think the Viper, and Gen 5 in particular, has a lot going for it that could knock it into the realm of collectibles...but that could take 20-30 years.
 

PeerBlock

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How could some thing(Gen 5) be possibility considered a collectible in the future when they can not sell them when they are new..If you want a collectible Viper,get a Gen.2 Blue and
White GTS or the White Gen.2 Special Edition...

FYI cars like the Toyota Supra Turbo and Nissan 300ZX Turbo did not sell very well when they were in production and sold at US dealerships, however now they command close to 60% or more of their original MSRP despite being nearly 20 years old. Whether or not a car becomes a collectible depends mostly on a community forming around it and elevating it to that point. Mass produced cars like the Porshe or Corvette have a lot less chance of ever becoming collectible simply because they're so abundant.
 

FLL-B/W-GTS

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Never said I did not like Vipers,I do,and I do like the Gen 5.But,the 3 Vipers I have owned in the past,they were the baddest machines out their.Now,the Gen.5 are way behind in many ways to the other high performance cars...I really hope SRT does some more with the Gen.5 except paint and spoilers. Thats all good ,but many of us want more performance so we can justify going buying new one..
But the Gen.5 is a very good looking machine, that is for sure... But, I do not like getting bet at the drag strip....Period
 

PeerBlock

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Now,the Gen.5 are way behind in many ways to the other high performance cars...I really hope SRT does some more with the Gen.5 except paint and spoilers.

But the Gen.5 is a very good looking machine, that is for sure... But, I do not like getting bet at the drag strip....Period

That's not true...the Gen 5 is top-of-the-pack in terms of track performance. Drag racing is not what it was designed for even though it cuts respectable ETs.

This shows just how dumb drag racing is as a way to gauge a vehicle's performance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RifBFGQoTes

Just about anything can be made to go fast in a straight line so who cares? Road race courses actually show how well a car is engineered (or isn't).
 

mnc2886

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How could some thing(Gen 5) be possibility considered a collectible in the future when they can not sell them when they are new..If you want a collectible Viper,get a Gen.2 Blue and
White GTS or the White Gen.2 Special Edition...

I wouldn't necessarily make the claim that the exact same would happen, but Shelby couldn't sell his Cobra's when they were new either. It wasn't until after they went away that people wanted them. Again, not saying the same will happen to the Viper, but the Viper is a modern Shelby Cobra and is acting like it in all facets...
 

Nine Ball

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Hemi Cudas sat on lots when new, too. They seem to do okay now.

I can see all gens of the Viper coupe doing well over time, especially the popular colors like blue/white, SSG. If the govt begins to set limits on hp and engine size, even better odds.
 
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Bruce H.

Bruce H.

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I've never consciously considered collectability and future values when purchasing a toy, but find it curious that all of mine over the years have become so, and appreciated in value after buying them. I'm curious if there's a formula, and PeerBlock listed a number of interesting criteria. I bought what and when I did because I thought they were really cool cars when I stumbled across them pretty much by accident, and not because I had a plan, or had been a fan, or even paid attention to them when new. Once discovering them I'd do all kinds of research and get really excited...or not in some cases.

I think some of the common factors for me were:

- The "cool" factor. They were all exciting cars in a variety of ways, luxury and performance were a part of that , and I was always surprised I hadn't noticed them before. I've seldom frequented new car shows, and hardly ever followed automobile magazine articles so it was easy for me to have missed anything that wasn't mainstream when new. Specific trim levels and options made the cars cool.

- The "rare" factor. They were all rather low production models, either because they were relatively expensive when new, or didn't suit the needs of many buyers in some way. Rust used to be much more of an issue than it is today, but special interest cars lost to corrosion, accidents and user abuse have made some even more rare. Try to find an unmolested Supra TT. And a car just wasn't "cool" to me if it was even remotely common in any way.

- Desirability of its successor. The Supra Turbo of the late 80's was all the rage until the new twin turbo model came out in 1994, and the market has pretty much forgotten about all of the pre-94 models. It was the best, and then its production ended...score!

- The "used car bargain" factor. They all seemed like a steal compared to what they sold for new, and what you'd currently have to pay to buy something else that cool. They generally cost less than what an average and relatively boring new car was selling for new.

-The "lust" factor. This was more something that developed as I'd research the car and learn what made it truly special. I'd say I must have generally discovered that before the used car buying public or the values would have already appreciated. Which leads to...

-Timing. Values take a huge hit when buying new of course. A good time is when average values have dropped due to age and average vehicle conditions, but while ones in exceptional condition are still available for a small premium.

-Condition. This ties together all of the other factors, and if the condition isn't great the other factors don't mean much. Restoring is expensive, and I think it's always better value to buy in great original condition...and those are the ones that become the most rare and valuable.

-Factory stock. It was the car's factory design and performance that appealed to me, and never looked at it as a canvas to paint my idea of a better version. I think the market is more accepting now of common modifications that are recognized as being desirable for some cars, but the owners of those Supras that installed body kits and huge power mods really lost big time.

I'm not sure how all this would affect anyone purchasing a Gen V Viper, but one thing is for certain...their values will likely drop a long ways before they appreciate!

Bruce
 

v10enomous

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It will be the most collectible American made 10 cylinder 8+ litre 2 seat exotic of it's era. Once they depreciate past used car status people may start to seek them out for their level of driver involvement and sheer outrageousness as new cars continue to become increasingly automated, nannified and gadgety.

Overall there are far worse cars to own or even lease from a depreciation perspective compared to say a $1,450 a month lease with $6,500 down for an S class.

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/special_offers/current#class=S
 
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ViperSmith

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I think if the car was easily tunable it would hold value much better. Look at how the FGT has held value, IMHO mostly because it is easily moddable.
 

PeerBlock

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I think if the car was easily tunable it would hold value much better. Look at how the FGT has held value, IMHO mostly because it is easily moddable.

Just be glad that you can hop into a Viper and own without having to tweak or tune it much...and doing things like changing the ECU for one that can be reprogrammed, adding forced induction, etc would have a negative effect on resale value.

-Factory stock. It was the car's factory design and performance that appealed to me, and never looked at it as a canvas to paint my idea of a better version. I think the market is more accepting now of common modifications that are recognized as being desirable for some cars, but the owners of those Supras that installed body kits and huge power mods really lost big time.

That's a good point to emphasize besides keeping the car in good working order. If you want to maintain your car's value, keep it stock or don't make changes that cannot easily be reverted back to stock. I often see people trying to sell heavily modded cars, listing what they spent on the mods as if it should add to the value...it doesn't work like that. When seeking to get the highest dollar amount for your car, the closer to stock the better.
 

Free2go

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I think tasteful mods don't hurt value. For example, on my 96 GTS, the stock brakes were hideous. Four piston calipers up front and nothing at all in the back except the parking brake. And what about the 17 inch wheels and all that wheel well gap?...to name a few.Every Viper came with some weakness that had to be corrected...IMO. I'm not bashing the new Viper, but the ZR1 left nothing to be desired at the stock level in the 100k price range. If the Viper had a stock supercharged version with those massive ZR1 style brakes in the 120-130k range they would all be sitting in garages and not dealerships.
 

slysnake

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Who knows what will happen in the future. If I did I would have bought a couple of Ford GT40s in 2005.
 

05Commemorative

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I think if the car was easily tunable it would hold value much better. Look at how the FGT has held value, IMHO mostly because it is easily moddable.

I am not sure that is the reason they hold their value. I think more on the low #'s, 2yrs only, historical tis and a great looking car. As far as easily moddable, look at the ones drawing the highest $'s. Like always in collector cars, they are the ones that are stock...
 

HobokenViper

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I am not sure that is the reason they hold their value. I think more on the low #'s, 2yrs only, historical tis and a great looking car. As far as easily moddable, look at the ones drawing the highest $'s. Like always in collector cars, they are the ones that are stock...

100% agreed. FGT is shooting up in value because it it one of the rarest and perhaps the most exotic and historically significant modern day cars built. The thing is a work of art on wheels and can draw a larger crowd of people than any Lamborghini or Ferrari. Plus they get rarer every week as more and more people wreck them.

Modded cars go down in value or do not retain their resale value as well as a bone stock car. Not sure where ViperSmith got his rationale, but if that were true then every Mitsubishi Eclipse, Camaro, Honda Civic, etc would hold their values well or go up in value, which is clearly not the case. Tunable Supercar does not equal going up in value. Just because there are some people who prefer a car that is very tunable, those are not the same people who are looking to buy an investment grade car with low miles, or hold it for future resale value. Those are the guys that drive the hell out of their cars and hope to get a few cents on the dollar back when they sell it one day. Look at Lamborghinis or Corvettes, they are all very tunable yet all plumet in value fairly quickly.
 

ulllose

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The FGT was made for 2 years and that's it. It's a bad ass car with outstanding performance and looks ...no wonder it is still appreciating.. That isn't To hard to figure out. If they quit making the gen 5 at the end of this model year ....I would assume they would hold there value and possibly appreciate. Now you can look at the 1995 zr1 and say that didn't hold value but that is because they kept making better
Corvettes. Ford never attempted to make anything better than the fGT.....boy I wish they would get back to it!
To guess what the gen 5 would be worth......let me ask you, how old are you anyways? You have time to wait and c?lol
 

Nine Ball

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One major thing to point out, that many people do not realize. A car can be rare. A car can be desirable. For it to be collectible, it must be both. I see many people thinking they have some future collectible because it may be 1 of 1. Many times, there is a reason only one car was built - it likely wasn't a desirable combo. Obscurity only matters if the option(s) that set it apart from the rest were of much higher value than the standard option, such as the JL8 disk brakes in the '69 Camaro, or the dual carb cross-ram intake manifold for such. Those were improvements that cost a lot back then, and few selected them. So, they were rare. Paint combos don't matter so much. Popular colors will always be desired more, count on it. Especially on cars like the Viper, where there weren't that many made in the first place.

As for modded vs stock, that has changed for several vehicles. I build pro-touring musclecars, which are essentially classic bodies wrapped around modern drivetrains and suspensions. They always sell for more than their bone stock restored counterparts, even with the same investment in the project. If a car is built properly, with a nice list of parts, and isn't too personalized beyond most others' tastes, then it will sell well. Tastefully modded cars will always find a buyer. Overdone cars will not.

Tony
 

v10enomous

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Splain dis Lucy...

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/06/28/1963-volkswagen-bus-hammers-at-record-setting-217-800/

At Barrett-Jackson's recent Orange County, California auctions, a 1964 Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud III James Young sedan went for $159,500, a 2005 Ford GT sold for $165,000 and a 1970 Dodge Hemi Challenger cleared $215,600. Topping them all, and every other car for the weekend: a 1963 Volkswagen Samba Microbus, sold for $217,800 inclusive of bidder's fee.

Even though Sambas, which were the top-of-the-line first generation bus and made for Alpine touring, have strong values, no one appears to be sure why this one beat everything else on offer. It's restored to "much-better-than-new condition," but that still doesn't explain why it set a record for any VW bus at auction. We can only wonder where and when it will pop up for auction again, since for that kind of coin, we don't imagine it will show up at any Magic Bus Extravaganzas or follow Phish around...
 

Silver04

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It's ironic that this ? is being asked to guys on a forum that couldn't even accurately predict the Gen 5 prices a few days before they were announced...Who cares about future value, enjoy the car or don't.
 

Paul Hawker

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If you can tell me what the price of gasoline, insurance, and if internal combustions vehicles will be allowed on the roads in 20 years, you will be better able to predict the future value of Vipers.

Best to just buy them and enjoy them. If they go up in value, so much the better.

Used Vipers have been pretty rock solid for the past couple years, maybe even going up.
 

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