If A Paddle Shifting Transmission Was Available In 2009, Anyone Buying One?
- Thread starter DodgeViper01
- Start date
xanadu
Enthusiast
To answer the original question - YES! Without a doubt, I would.
For those afraid that the Viper will somehow morph into a Vette simply because there is the "option" of having a Viper equiped with dual-clutch sequential shifting paddles - perhaps there should be removable floorboards with direct access to the ground below - get it?
Eventually "raw power" will not be enough to beat the competetion around the track. That's actually felt right now in controlled racing environments. The faster the competing cars become, the more important it is to find ways to keep up - and when horsepower is eventually not a "logical" answer - you have to turn to other options which will beat the competition. An example of this would be Ferrari and its history in developing and introducing the sequential "paddle shifted" system to their F1 cars. In the controlled environment of F1 racing, they pushed to find a faster way around the track besides "more horsepower" which can be hard to find once it's all been wrung out (of the controlled F1 engine size). So what happened following that history breaking event of Ferrari introducing this shifting system to F1? Every single team follow behind them as fast as they could - so as not to be left in the dust of the Ferrari's.
The point is - the faster the cars become, the more important it is to have shifts that are as fast as possible. Sometimes that means leaning on technology. Fred Flintstone wouldn't have cared about faster shifts - his car was slow. When Ford came along and cars started going faster, shifting faster was becoming more important. As the competition gets faster - you have to adapt if you want to compete with them, and eventually that 5,000 horsepower engine is not going to be a viable option any longer.
So, the answer comes back to having an "option". The "caveman" mentality that sequential paddle shifters will lessen the "rawness" of the Viper is simply a feeling of masculine inadequacy. If a boost in one's masculinity is needed - there's the full manual. If you are secure with your own masculinity and want the fullest performance that can be had while still having control over the shifts - sequential would be way cool.
Let's keep in mind that comparing one sequantial system to another can have huge differences. A 2007 BMW system may be worthless compared to a 2005 Lamborghini Gallardo system compared to a fast Ferrari 360 system, which seems slow to the really fast F430 system - which now is reported to be hurting somewhat from the newly released super-super-fast shifting 430 Scuderia.
(Scuderia - Superb performance both on and off the track is assured by a series of cutting-edge solutions. There is the latest F1 software - Superfast - which reduces gearchange times to just 60 milliseconds . . . .)
As for the R/D:
1) Between Chrysler, Dodge & Diamler - the R/D would be conducted for a larger range of vehicles than JUST the Viper. In fact, there are probably factory sequential systems that could be used right now on the Viper but are just not provided as an option. Anyone remember the ME 4-12?
2) There are companies that could be contracted to create the perfect sequential system for the Viper - no different than the latest Viper update done by McLaren.
Finally - here's some extra reading - as if I have not bored enough already:
Chrysler Dual-Clutch Transmissions: Automatic Manuals - 79REM & 62TEM
Chrysler designed an automatically operated manual transmission, reportedly was for trucks and minivans; these have been tried before - Mercedes, for example, had a troublesome system in the past - but never successfully applied to light-duty vehicles, and never with the degree of sophistication and cleverness being applied by Chrysler engineers. This transmission, whose development started around 1998, is now confirmed for production. The company wrote:
Unlike Toyota's sequential automatic and most other clutchless models, it had systems to avoid slipping at traffic lights (on hills), to make getting into gear very, very fast, and to make extremely fast, smooth shifts. Unconfirmed reports said it was set to go into Rams when Stuttgart objected to the cost and temporarily ended the project. The transmission will be made in a joint venture with Chrysler's traditional German partner, Getrag, to reduce up-front production costs and to make use of Getrag’s dual-clutch patents.
This is a very exciting system - think of cutting 1-2 seconds off each car's 0-60 times while raising gas mileage, and making the car more pleasant to drive.
Large parts of the dual-clutch system (as it will be referred to in most reports) are used by the Chrysler ME-412, and may show up in Mercedes supercars as well.
The 62TEM (front-wheel drive transverse electromechanical transmission) will reportedly have one overdrive with 500 Nm (370 pound-feet) maximum input torque, 10,000 lbs GVW, 210,000 miles durability, using an integrated final drive and differential.
The dual-clutch will be a major advantage for Dodge trucks and minivans, especially given that many see the Chrysler automatics as being “a reason not to buy;” some speculate that the Cummins turbodiesels are being held back in power to avoid transmission damage, costly to Dodge’s image during a truck power war. At the moment, it appears that Chrysler is giving preference to front wheel drive vehicles, and is building the 62TEM first. The 79REM, for trucks, has been developed, but may be released after the 62TEM; no announcements have been made but this does not mean that the company is not working on it.
Automatically shifted manual transmission: some Chrysler dual-clutch automatic patents
A June 4, 2000 patent with inventor Donald L. Carriere was granted for "an electro-mechanical automatic transmission having... a first input shaft and a second input shaft concentric with the first input shaft....with a pair of electro-mechanical clutch actuators for selectively disengaging dual clutches... as well as an electro-mechanical shift actuator system which operatively engage the synchronizer devices for selectively engaging the drive gears. ... The dual clutch system of the present invention includes two dry discs driven by a common flywheel assembly. Two electro-mechanical clutch actuators are provided to control disengagement of the two-clutch discs independently. Shifts are accomplished by engaging the desired gear prior to a shift event and subsequently engaging the corresponding clutch. ...The transmission of the present invention can be in two different gear ratios at once, but only one clutch will be engaged and transmitting power. To shift to the new gear ratio, the driving clutch will be released and the released clutch will be engaged. The two-clutch actuators perform a quick and smooth shift as directed by an on-board vehicle control system using closed-loop control reading engine RPMs or torque. The transmission shaft that is disengaged will then be shifted into the next gear ratio in anticipation of the next shift." Clever!
We'll also note that a May 18 patent from Jeffrey P. Cherry is for an "electro-mechanical clutch actuator system ... for a transmission having dual input shafts with respective clutches."
Patent 6,491,147 describes a way to more easily add a clutch pedal to a car with an automatic. Why? We don't know. Maybe one of the patent engineers was feeling frisky. We certainly would prefer the option to drive a stick-shift.
October 15, 2002: control of a dual clutch (manual) transmission, where the first clutch acts to transmit torque to the first driven gear, and the second clutch transmits torque to the second driven gear. Richard G. Reed, Jr.; Jeffrey P. Cherry. The goal is to make a far smoother manual transmission, while increasing efficiency and power transmission, without excessive heat buildup. But could this also be a step in creating an automatically operated manual transmission.
Patent 6,490,517 (Phillip McGrath and Yi Cheng) gets to the more mundane question of being in the correct gear: "a method for determining a maximum performance gear for an automobile when performing acceleration/deceleration maneuvers and a system for enhancing a motor vehicle's gear indicator capabilities." The target is a manual transmission but the technology could be used in an automatic.
Additional notes
Martin S. Burkle’s resume (thanks, “redhed”) shows that he worked for noted transmission maker ZF before coming to DaimlerChrylser in 2001 as a project engineer (working out of Auburn Hills). More to the point, he provides some details on the two versions of this transmission — which explains rumors of a minivan propelled by an automated manual transmission:
For those afraid that the Viper will somehow morph into a Vette simply because there is the "option" of having a Viper equiped with dual-clutch sequential shifting paddles - perhaps there should be removable floorboards with direct access to the ground below - get it?
Eventually "raw power" will not be enough to beat the competetion around the track. That's actually felt right now in controlled racing environments. The faster the competing cars become, the more important it is to find ways to keep up - and when horsepower is eventually not a "logical" answer - you have to turn to other options which will beat the competition. An example of this would be Ferrari and its history in developing and introducing the sequential "paddle shifted" system to their F1 cars. In the controlled environment of F1 racing, they pushed to find a faster way around the track besides "more horsepower" which can be hard to find once it's all been wrung out (of the controlled F1 engine size). So what happened following that history breaking event of Ferrari introducing this shifting system to F1? Every single team follow behind them as fast as they could - so as not to be left in the dust of the Ferrari's.
The point is - the faster the cars become, the more important it is to have shifts that are as fast as possible. Sometimes that means leaning on technology. Fred Flintstone wouldn't have cared about faster shifts - his car was slow. When Ford came along and cars started going faster, shifting faster was becoming more important. As the competition gets faster - you have to adapt if you want to compete with them, and eventually that 5,000 horsepower engine is not going to be a viable option any longer.
So, the answer comes back to having an "option". The "caveman" mentality that sequential paddle shifters will lessen the "rawness" of the Viper is simply a feeling of masculine inadequacy. If a boost in one's masculinity is needed - there's the full manual. If you are secure with your own masculinity and want the fullest performance that can be had while still having control over the shifts - sequential would be way cool.
Let's keep in mind that comparing one sequantial system to another can have huge differences. A 2007 BMW system may be worthless compared to a 2005 Lamborghini Gallardo system compared to a fast Ferrari 360 system, which seems slow to the really fast F430 system - which now is reported to be hurting somewhat from the newly released super-super-fast shifting 430 Scuderia.
(Scuderia - Superb performance both on and off the track is assured by a series of cutting-edge solutions. There is the latest F1 software - Superfast - which reduces gearchange times to just 60 milliseconds . . . .)
As for the R/D:
1) Between Chrysler, Dodge & Diamler - the R/D would be conducted for a larger range of vehicles than JUST the Viper. In fact, there are probably factory sequential systems that could be used right now on the Viper but are just not provided as an option. Anyone remember the ME 4-12?
2) There are companies that could be contracted to create the perfect sequential system for the Viper - no different than the latest Viper update done by McLaren.
Finally - here's some extra reading - as if I have not bored enough already:
Chrysler Dual-Clutch Transmissions: Automatic Manuals - 79REM & 62TEM
Chrysler designed an automatically operated manual transmission, reportedly was for trucks and minivans; these have been tried before - Mercedes, for example, had a troublesome system in the past - but never successfully applied to light-duty vehicles, and never with the degree of sophistication and cleverness being applied by Chrysler engineers. This transmission, whose development started around 1998, is now confirmed for production. The company wrote:
A new automated manual (dual-clutch) transmission – developed in partnership with Getrag [based on many Chrysler patents] – will be used in significant volumes in 2010 model-year vehicles. The transmission is expected to deliver a fuel economy improvement of up to six percent, based on preliminary testing.
The new transmission is equipped with two independent lay-shaft style gear sets with separate clutches, using manual transmission-based components. During shifts, the next gear is anticipated and pre-selected. Then one clutch is opened while the other is closed, allowing shifting without torque interruption. The result is quicker acceleration and refined shift quality.
First, third, and fifth gear will be operated by one clutch; second, fourth, and sixth, by the other. The transmission will be used with the Phoenix V6 to create one of the world’s most advanced powertrains. If it works well, and sees customer acceptance, it could replace both conventional automatics and CVTs at Chrysler. Production is currently set at 700,000 units per year, according to Frank Klegon, as quoted in Automotive News (July 2, 2007). That would be enough for every nearly Dodge made for the first six months of 2007 (Chrysler as a whole made 1.36 million vehicles across all brands in the first half of 2007, so 700,000 transmissions per year could equip over one quarter of Chrysler’s fleet - in its second year). Unlike Toyota's sequential automatic and most other clutchless models, it had systems to avoid slipping at traffic lights (on hills), to make getting into gear very, very fast, and to make extremely fast, smooth shifts. Unconfirmed reports said it was set to go into Rams when Stuttgart objected to the cost and temporarily ended the project. The transmission will be made in a joint venture with Chrysler's traditional German partner, Getrag, to reduce up-front production costs and to make use of Getrag’s dual-clutch patents.
This is a very exciting system - think of cutting 1-2 seconds off each car's 0-60 times while raising gas mileage, and making the car more pleasant to drive.
Large parts of the dual-clutch system (as it will be referred to in most reports) are used by the Chrysler ME-412, and may show up in Mercedes supercars as well.
The 62TEM (front-wheel drive transverse electromechanical transmission) will reportedly have one overdrive with 500 Nm (370 pound-feet) maximum input torque, 10,000 lbs GVW, 210,000 miles durability, using an integrated final drive and differential.
The dual-clutch will be a major advantage for Dodge trucks and minivans, especially given that many see the Chrysler automatics as being “a reason not to buy;” some speculate that the Cummins turbodiesels are being held back in power to avoid transmission damage, costly to Dodge’s image during a truck power war. At the moment, it appears that Chrysler is giving preference to front wheel drive vehicles, and is building the 62TEM first. The 79REM, for trucks, has been developed, but may be released after the 62TEM; no announcements have been made but this does not mean that the company is not working on it.
Automatically shifted manual transmission: some Chrysler dual-clutch automatic patents
A June 4, 2000 patent with inventor Donald L. Carriere was granted for "an electro-mechanical automatic transmission having... a first input shaft and a second input shaft concentric with the first input shaft....with a pair of electro-mechanical clutch actuators for selectively disengaging dual clutches... as well as an electro-mechanical shift actuator system which operatively engage the synchronizer devices for selectively engaging the drive gears. ... The dual clutch system of the present invention includes two dry discs driven by a common flywheel assembly. Two electro-mechanical clutch actuators are provided to control disengagement of the two-clutch discs independently. Shifts are accomplished by engaging the desired gear prior to a shift event and subsequently engaging the corresponding clutch. ...The transmission of the present invention can be in two different gear ratios at once, but only one clutch will be engaged and transmitting power. To shift to the new gear ratio, the driving clutch will be released and the released clutch will be engaged. The two-clutch actuators perform a quick and smooth shift as directed by an on-board vehicle control system using closed-loop control reading engine RPMs or torque. The transmission shaft that is disengaged will then be shifted into the next gear ratio in anticipation of the next shift." Clever!
We'll also note that a May 18 patent from Jeffrey P. Cherry is for an "electro-mechanical clutch actuator system ... for a transmission having dual input shafts with respective clutches."
Patent 6,491,147 describes a way to more easily add a clutch pedal to a car with an automatic. Why? We don't know. Maybe one of the patent engineers was feeling frisky. We certainly would prefer the option to drive a stick-shift.
October 15, 2002: control of a dual clutch (manual) transmission, where the first clutch acts to transmit torque to the first driven gear, and the second clutch transmits torque to the second driven gear. Richard G. Reed, Jr.; Jeffrey P. Cherry. The goal is to make a far smoother manual transmission, while increasing efficiency and power transmission, without excessive heat buildup. But could this also be a step in creating an automatically operated manual transmission.
Patent 6,490,517 (Phillip McGrath and Yi Cheng) gets to the more mundane question of being in the correct gear: "a method for determining a maximum performance gear for an automobile when performing acceleration/deceleration maneuvers and a system for enhancing a motor vehicle's gear indicator capabilities." The target is a manual transmission but the technology could be used in an automatic.
Additional notes
Martin S. Burkle’s resume (thanks, “redhed”) shows that he worked for noted transmission maker ZF before coming to DaimlerChrylser in 2001 as a project engineer (working out of Auburn Hills). More to the point, he provides some details on the two versions of this transmission — which explains rumors of a minivan propelled by an automated manual transmission:
Designed and engineered the 79REM (rear-wheel drive electromechanical transmission) seven speed, with two overdrive for 850 Nm diesel input torque, 26,000 lbs GVW with 120 mm centerdistance and 300,000 miles durability, input constant design. ... Designed and engineered the 62TEM (front-wheel drive transverse electromechanical transmission) six speed, with one overdrive for 500 Nm diesel input torque, 10,000 lbs GVW with 95 mm centerdistance and 210,000 miles durability, integrated final drive and differential.
mike & juli
Enthusiast
Wowwww....lots of reading there!! I am one of the ones who would LOVE to try out paddle shifters...whether it be in a Viper or another car, doesn't matter to me, the Viper stays a Viper...the debate will go on and on about that...sounds like FUNNNNN to me!!!!
~juli
*****Can you say QUICKER SHIFTS?!!*****
~juli
*****Can you say QUICKER SHIFTS?!!*****
black mamba1
Enthusiast
no. When Nascar goes to paddles shifters, so should Vipers.
DodgeViper01
Enthusiast
My brother just got a M3 SMG, and I must say, I am in love!
mike & juli
Enthusiast
KEITH!!!!~~~You got your beauty back!~! (Not Crystal, the Viper!!) Will you be at Chuck's Saturday do you think? We hope so! We'd love to see your *improved* BEAST!!
~juli
DodgeViper01
Enthusiast
I should be there. Have to pick up my car. Chuck has had it for a week to tune up and do routine maintance.
mike & juli
Enthusiast
Very cool!! Looking forward to meeting you, seeing the others we know, and meeting the others we don't as of yet. So far, seems it will be a good, if not excellent, driving day! What more can we ask in October?!!
See ya there...keep up your post count! 
~juli
DodgeViper01
Enthusiast
It should be a blast. 60 Degrees and sunny is always great.
mike & juli
Enthusiast
We've heard 50 and showers...but that's subject to change! I'll take your forecast!
~juli
DodgeViper01
Enthusiast
We've heard 50 and showers...but that's subject to change! I'll take your forecast!
~juli
Yeah always take the higher one.
xanadu
Enthusiast
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
The ol' "all or nothing" logic. How witty.
Let me see if I can use that logic...buy a Vette, it has all the crap you want.
xanadu
Enthusiast
The ol' "all or nothing" logic. How witty.
Let me see if I can use that logic...buy a Vette, it has all the crap you want.
Uhhh, I don't like the cookie cutter Vettes. I do like Gen III Vipers. I love Ferrari's - but I won't spend that kind of money on a car when it could be used for more important issues.
I would like Vipers even more if there were a couple more "options". Others say that they would not like to see "things" happen, but I seriously doubt many - if even any - die-hard Viper owners would turn their back on the Viper if performance was increased through "optional" accessories.
I would be willing to go the aftermarket route - if there was a decent aftermarket sequential system - but there is not one with the high quality/smooth shifts/super-fast shifts that I expect and desire. A system has been developed already by Daimler/Chrysler/Dodge. I would love to see what a super-fast (100 milliseconds or less) shifting system would be like say at Road Atlanta or LeMans when compared to a standard manual "stick & clutch pedal" system - especially after the same driver has been pushing as hard as possible after 3 hours.
Warfang
Enthusiast
The whiners sing the same song. I'd rather watch cars go left all day. yawn
mike & juli
Enthusiast
I'm with you there...as I said, think "FASTER SHIFTS"!!!!! I'd just LOVE to TRY out paddle shifters, doesn't matter if it's in the Viper or not...but I can certainly imagine the shifting being faster as you mentioned above. Something *new* and a change certainly, but some changes can be good! ~juli
mike & juli
Enthusiast
Aw, come on Josh...wouldn't you just LOVE to TRY a paddle shifting car?? No matter if it's a Viper or not? And, not necessarily a Corvette either...probably a Ferrari...I just wanta see what it's like, that's all!!! Sounds like quicker shifts and MUCH MORE FUN to me~~~juli
Zan186
Viper Owner
Xanadu has a really good point. I am in favor of some options that make the car a bit safer. ABS, Traction control would definately be a plus. Yes TC should be on an on/off switch. Yes the Viper is a raw car, a driver's car but sometimes I think we as Viper owners use the "raw" as a self defense mechanism to counter the vastly superior technological wonder known as a Vette. Let's face it the Vette pretty much is 100x as refined as a Viper is.
Yeah I love my snake and would never trade it for a Vette. Why? I love it because of many reasons: It is rare, It has an exotic appearance, It is loud, It is beefy under the hood, it is expensive (status), It is a drivers car.
That being said, having the option for TC would be a nice feature to have. How many accidents could be avoided with it on the road? Yeah for racing I would disable it, but for driving on the road, or If I was caught in the rain (yes happened to me twice this year) I would have it on.
Paddle shifters - no way, that is for an elegant car or for a Ferrari.
Yeah I love my snake and would never trade it for a Vette. Why? I love it because of many reasons: It is rare, It has an exotic appearance, It is loud, It is beefy under the hood, it is expensive (status), It is a drivers car.
That being said, having the option for TC would be a nice feature to have. How many accidents could be avoided with it on the road? Yeah for racing I would disable it, but for driving on the road, or If I was caught in the rain (yes happened to me twice this year) I would have it on.
Paddle shifters - no way, that is for an elegant car or for a Ferrari.
Warfang
Enthusiast
Aw, come on Josh...wouldn't you just LOVE to TRY a paddle shifting car?? No matter if it's a Viper or not? And, not necessarily a Corvette either...probably a Ferrari...I just wanta see what it's like, that's all!!! Sounds like quicker shifts and MUCH MORE FUN to me~~~juli
So go rent a vette with paddles. Go test drive a mitsubishi. They have paddles too, and much cheaper than a ferarri, and they'll let you test drive one, unlike a ferarri.
You're going to demand a company dilute a carefully crafted brand to suit your curiosity or an inferiority complex due to lack of pointless tech? This is the epitome of being out of touch with reality. Will a ferarri come as a hybrid? Will Bugatti make an under $30k 4-seater v6 version of the Veyron in a jetta frame and only 1 SC? Will the Corvette come in a slower version? (Oh wait... they do).
The people that insist on the gizmos just want the bad@$$ image of the Viper with the laziness of driving a vette. The Viper should be a V-10 front engine 2-seater supercar that is more racecar than sportscar. It should be the most outrageous and most low tech car FOR IT'S TIME.
Buy a car that suits your needs. The day Dodge has a Viper with 4 cylinders and TC and paddles... I won't be buying. I'm sure some of you will jump at the chance. And that's ok. There are other cars that fit the bill.
mike & juli
Enthusiast
So go rent a vette with paddles. Go test drive a mitsubishi. They have paddles too, and much cheaper than a ferarri, and they'll let you test drive one, unlike a ferarri.
You're going to demand a company dilute a carefully crafted brand to suit your curiosity or an inferiority complex due to lack of pointless tech? This is the epitome of being out of touch with reality. Will a ferarri come as a hybrid? Will Bugatti make an under $30k 4-seater v6 version of the Veyron in a jetta frame and only 1 SC? Will the Corvette come in a slower version? (Oh wait... they do).
The people that insist on the gizmos just want the bad@$$ image of the Viper with the laziness of driving a vette. The Viper should be a V-10 front engine 2-seater supercar that is more racecar than sportscar. It should be the most outrageous and most low tech car FOR IT'S TIME.
Buy a car that suits your needs. The day Dodge has a Viper with 4 cylinders and TC and paddles... I won't be buying. I'm sure some of you will jump at the chance. And that's ok. There are other cars that fit the bill.
No, No, NO....you missed my point. BUT, brought up a GOOD point...yep, to satisfy my curiosity about paddle shifters, I oughta rent a vehicle that has POWER and paddle shifters...I TOTALLY AGREE about the Viper and have stated it over and over again that the VIPER REMAIN a Drivers' car...takes ALL the driver's attention as it should. It should stay the RAW BEAST that it is, and I've ALWAYS said that....I was just jumping on the bandwagon for trying something new and possibly improved...who knows? I haven't tried paddle shifters yet, have you? I'd LOVE to!~!~! Okay, NOT in a Viper...agreed-truce!
~juli
xanadu
Enthusiast
So, how do you feel about all of the "racecars" that have sequential shifting transmissions - whether paddle or floor mounted stick? I suppose those cars are not "manly" racecars, right? Only redneck NASCAR is "manly" racing? Yeah, I guess there's no point in wanting faster shifts when NASCAR is your gig - considering there is no Viper on the NASCAR track and those cars probably don't need shifting gears more than a dozen times anyway on the typical race day while driving around in (yaaaawn) circles.
And what happens if Dodge DOES offer say, "the same 2008 Viper" - only with an optional sequential transmission - does that mean you are out and never wanting another "newer" Viper again?
bluestreak
Enthusiast
- Joined
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What a surprise, the same two people arguing about purism vs the voice of the people. I would have never expected that.
Warfang
Enthusiast
It's purism and the voice of the people with common sense vs the few whiny trolls that don't understand what a Viper is.
mike & juli
Enthusiast
It's purism and the voice of the people with common sense vs the few whiny trolls that don't understand what a Viper is.
Ah, if you're speaking about ME, I MORE than understand the Viper and WANT to keep it the pure, raw, BEAST that it is...I've never wavered from that!!! It's gotta stay in its own niche that it is in now, that's what makes the Viper wellll, the VIPER!!! Hands down, best muscle car. Now for going out today and enjoying the BEAST--yesssss!!!
~julidave6666
Enthusiast
Who woke this thread up from the morgue?
xanadu
Enthusiast
When racing the oval circuit, gear shifts are basically a non-paramount issue. Once the speed of the circuit is achieved, there's not much gear changing going on.
However, what would the Viper be more in tune with:
1) a NASCAR based automobile (family sedan-ish)?
2) a road racing automobile made for high performance in multiple areas - such as speed, bi-directional handling/cornering & acceleration?
So, as best as I know - here are the racing leagues where sequential transmissions are by VERY far the chosen application in gearbox selection:
Formula 1
A1GP
FIA GT Championship
FIA GT3 Championship
FIA European Touring Car Championship
FIA World Touring Car Championship
LeMans LMP1
LeMans LMP2
LeMans GT1
LeMans GT2
American LeMans Series LMP1
ALMS LMP2
ALMS GT1
ALMS GT2
Daytona Prototype
Ferrari Challenge
Porsche Cup
GT3 / Grand Am Cup
Indy Car
Champ Car
Star Mazda Championship
DTM / German Touring Car Championship
BTCC / British Touring Car Championship
World Rally Championship
International Rally Championship
SPEED Challenge* (Kind of an odd racing series to begin with, but anyway . . . Some have mandatory H pattern gearboxes & at least two cars (maybe more)are approved for a sequential gearbox)
Total = 26 series with 1 being split due to regulations
And now for the series that uses the ole fashioned clutch pedal and H pattern stick shift:
NASCAR
Total = 1
So, which group was it that best exemplified the Viper??? Hmmm, I think the logical answer would be the road racing category.
If the current Viper community as a whole believes that having an "option" such as a sequential gearbox would kill the "rawness" of the Viper - and sans such gearbox keeps it more in tune with the "family car" racing series - where 95% of the races are done by going round and round and round in a circle - I would say that the priorities are vastly mixed up.
By offering an "optional" sequential gearbox - the Viper would actually be put into a MIXTURE of two catagories:
1) Raw "old school" road race driving reminiscent of the 20th century
2) 21st century "New school" road-racing style competitiveness coinciding with almost every (95% +) modern sports-car racing series.
It would be nice if the buyer could make the choice of which version he/she wanted!
Note: Some racing series championships may have been unaccounted for, but it is strongly believed that it would weigh even more heavily on the side of the "sequential" style gearbox as the chosen type of transmission.
However, what would the Viper be more in tune with:
1) a NASCAR based automobile (family sedan-ish)?
2) a road racing automobile made for high performance in multiple areas - such as speed, bi-directional handling/cornering & acceleration?
So, as best as I know - here are the racing leagues where sequential transmissions are by VERY far the chosen application in gearbox selection:
Formula 1
A1GP
FIA GT Championship
FIA GT3 Championship
FIA European Touring Car Championship
FIA World Touring Car Championship
LeMans LMP1
LeMans LMP2
LeMans GT1
LeMans GT2
American LeMans Series LMP1
ALMS LMP2
ALMS GT1
ALMS GT2
Daytona Prototype
Ferrari Challenge
Porsche Cup
GT3 / Grand Am Cup
Indy Car
Champ Car
Star Mazda Championship
DTM / German Touring Car Championship
BTCC / British Touring Car Championship
World Rally Championship
International Rally Championship
SPEED Challenge* (Kind of an odd racing series to begin with, but anyway . . . Some have mandatory H pattern gearboxes & at least two cars (maybe more)are approved for a sequential gearbox)
Total = 26 series with 1 being split due to regulations
And now for the series that uses the ole fashioned clutch pedal and H pattern stick shift:
NASCAR
Total = 1
So, which group was it that best exemplified the Viper??? Hmmm, I think the logical answer would be the road racing category.
If the current Viper community as a whole believes that having an "option" such as a sequential gearbox would kill the "rawness" of the Viper - and sans such gearbox keeps it more in tune with the "family car" racing series - where 95% of the races are done by going round and round and round in a circle - I would say that the priorities are vastly mixed up.
By offering an "optional" sequential gearbox - the Viper would actually be put into a MIXTURE of two catagories:
1) Raw "old school" road race driving reminiscent of the 20th century
2) 21st century "New school" road-racing style competitiveness coinciding with almost every (95% +) modern sports-car racing series.
It would be nice if the buyer could make the choice of which version he/she wanted!
Note: Some racing series championships may have been unaccounted for, but it is strongly believed that it would weigh even more heavily on the side of the "sequential" style gearbox as the chosen type of transmission.
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dave6666
Enthusiast
Warfang
Enthusiast
Most cars can carry 4 passengers too. There should be a 4 seater option.
Viper have won many of the above mentioned races WITHOUT paddles. A man accomplishes more by doing it with less.
xanadu
Enthusiast
Many? Maybe, MAYBE a few listed, but no where near many. Keep in mind that most of the latest Vipers winning in top European championships were driven with fitted Sequential Gearboxes (ie, Oreca in the last Viper win at LeMans, etc.).
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