Ok here's the story. My car was vandalized at Finishline Dodge in Glenview IL. Someone broke the rear window. The dealership went ahead and replaced the window and filed a police report. They were going to take care of everything. When I went to pick up the car they would not release the car until I paid $1500 for the replacement glass! This charge was never discussed in any of my conversations with two service writers they were going to take care of everything. I said hell no it’s your responsibility not mine and they would not release the car. Now they have removed the glass and called me to pick up the car with no rear window and have offered to pay the deductible for the repairs that they did under warranty to my vehicle. To me this is like rubbing salt in a wound I'm supposed to be happy by them crediting me $100 dollars for my warrantee work and take my car with no rear window? Somebody help. Any advice would be appreciated.
IL VCA HELP MAJOR PROBLEM WITH DODGE DEALERSHIP
- Thread starter sean4180
- Start date
Dr Roof
Enthusiast
That is bad news!!!
Not sure what to do! Call the local News or something!
good luck
Not sure what to do! Call the local News or something!
good luck
Thats a bummer
It was vandalized on their property and under their care so they should have to fix it for free. If this happend at your house thats a different story.
I have no idea what to do legally, I know what I would certainly call BBB.
I'm sorry man.
(Stu, we had to clean this one up a bit, the Mods)
It was vandalized on their property and under their care so they should have to fix it for free. If this happend at your house thats a different story.
I have no idea what to do legally, I know what I would certainly call BBB.
I'm sorry man.
(Stu, we had to clean this one up a bit, the Mods)
Kurt 97 GTS
Enthusiast
My Infiniti was held on once when at the dealership for service. The dealership paid for EVERYTHING with no questions asked!!!
Find another dealership in the future!!!
Find another dealership in the future!!!
99GTSACR
Viper Owner
A similar thing happened to me. I just paid by Credit card and disputed the charges later and won. They have insurance for that and should not charge the customer.
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Vipera Russelli
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Just some unreliable, off-the-cuff ramblings on the matter:
It's my understanding, generally, that where a bailment is created (generally, a situation where one is holding another's property) that mutually benefits both parties (e.g., pay parking lot, or perhaps a dealership doing warranty work), that the bailee (the one holding the property) owes the bailor (the owner of the property) a "duty of reasonable care" in safeguarding the chattel (the property). If so, then the issue is, at least under this analysis, did the dealership fulfill or breach its duty of reasonable care in the protection of your Viper? One might successfully argue that given the sticker price of these cars, storing it inside at night (which is the practice of my dealership) and out reach of vandals and thieves is necessary to fulfill the duty of reasonable care owed to you, and, conversely, storing it within reach of vandals is a breach of this duty of care, hence making the dealership liable to you for your damages. It would be interesting to know what the other dealerships do in your area with respect to storing expensive cars, not that that would be determinative on the issue of breach of duty, but it might give you some ammunition.
Additionally, given that the car was in their exclusive control when the damage occurred, it might be argued successfully that, under the principal of res ipsa loquitur (the thing speaks for itself), there is a rebuttable presumption that the dealership was indeed negligent so long as such things do not ordinarily happen in the absence of negligence. This principal has been used to put airlines on the defensive in a crash situation and may not be applicable to your situation. Again, just rambling here.
Also, there may be premises liability arguments and other arguments that could successfully be made.
Finally, and most importantly, I claim to know nothing of ILL law, so don't rely on the validity of any of the above. My blabberings are only to suggest that you might consider consulting an ILL attorney, which by the way, is my only actual advise to you. Just a letter or a call from him or her might just do the trick.
Good luck and sorry to hear of your misfortune.
It's my understanding, generally, that where a bailment is created (generally, a situation where one is holding another's property) that mutually benefits both parties (e.g., pay parking lot, or perhaps a dealership doing warranty work), that the bailee (the one holding the property) owes the bailor (the owner of the property) a "duty of reasonable care" in safeguarding the chattel (the property). If so, then the issue is, at least under this analysis, did the dealership fulfill or breach its duty of reasonable care in the protection of your Viper? One might successfully argue that given the sticker price of these cars, storing it inside at night (which is the practice of my dealership) and out reach of vandals and thieves is necessary to fulfill the duty of reasonable care owed to you, and, conversely, storing it within reach of vandals is a breach of this duty of care, hence making the dealership liable to you for your damages. It would be interesting to know what the other dealerships do in your area with respect to storing expensive cars, not that that would be determinative on the issue of breach of duty, but it might give you some ammunition.
Additionally, given that the car was in their exclusive control when the damage occurred, it might be argued successfully that, under the principal of res ipsa loquitur (the thing speaks for itself), there is a rebuttable presumption that the dealership was indeed negligent so long as such things do not ordinarily happen in the absence of negligence. This principal has been used to put airlines on the defensive in a crash situation and may not be applicable to your situation. Again, just rambling here.
Also, there may be premises liability arguments and other arguments that could successfully be made.
Finally, and most importantly, I claim to know nothing of ILL law, so don't rely on the validity of any of the above. My blabberings are only to suggest that you might consider consulting an ILL attorney, which by the way, is my only actual advise to you. Just a letter or a call from him or her might just do the trick.
Good luck and sorry to hear of your misfortune.
Wild Bill
Enthusiast
Yep-Vipera said it all
B
B
Supercharged Vipermad
Enthusiast
I agree with Vipera too...though I have NO idea WHAT he said...it sure sounded good!!!
A friend had his Infinity in for work and the rims and tires were stolen. The dealer claimed they had no obligation to replace them. When the bailement angle was discussed with them they said "the situation was no different than if you park in Wallmart and the car is stolen or damaged, here, read the fine print on the work order that you signed releasing the dealership from any damage."
Complaint was filed with the state auto association and things got resolved.
Complaint was filed with the state auto association and things got resolved.
Vipera Russelli
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Marv S,
I would argue that a much different situation is created when you turn your car and your car keys over to someone versus locking your car in a parking lot and walking away from it. However, kudos to the dealership for coming up with the analogy, however ill-fitting. Now rather or not an Infiniti (as opposed to a Viper) must be locked up inside at night in order to fulfill the reasonable duty of care, is another matter.
As for fine print, a lot of fine print is often not binding on the consumer signer, given that (i) consumers don't read it (which is why often times we have to actually initial certain fine print provisions), and (ii) it usually only serves to protect the drafter, in this case the dealership, and is presented in a take-it-or-leave-it fashion, which doesn't really afford the consumer to ability to agree or not agree, especially in a situation where warranty work is being performed and the customer has no other option. Also, businesses often include completely unenforceable provisions favorable to them in fine print just to have something to point to when a customer has a legitimate complaint. Doing so is enough to shake the confidence of many customers, who will then never peruse a winnable claim, which this may or may not be.
I would argue that a much different situation is created when you turn your car and your car keys over to someone versus locking your car in a parking lot and walking away from it. However, kudos to the dealership for coming up with the analogy, however ill-fitting. Now rather or not an Infiniti (as opposed to a Viper) must be locked up inside at night in order to fulfill the reasonable duty of care, is another matter.
As for fine print, a lot of fine print is often not binding on the consumer signer, given that (i) consumers don't read it (which is why often times we have to actually initial certain fine print provisions), and (ii) it usually only serves to protect the drafter, in this case the dealership, and is presented in a take-it-or-leave-it fashion, which doesn't really afford the consumer to ability to agree or not agree, especially in a situation where warranty work is being performed and the customer has no other option. Also, businesses often include completely unenforceable provisions favorable to them in fine print just to have something to point to when a customer has a legitimate complaint. Doing so is enough to shake the confidence of many customers, who will then never peruse a winnable claim, which this may or may not be.
Fiorano
Enthusiast
I had a similar situation occur to me last summer.
My car of which I no longer have was stolen. It was found about 5 days later. I called a local dealer to fix the whatever damage occurred. This dealer subcontracted out the work.
To make a long story shorter, the car was vandalized (seats, shift knob, and some suspension parts stolen) while at the repair shops lot. I was quite upset, and thought without question they would replace everything. They said no and wouldn't even call the police while I was working. So I had to go the next day to file a report. I was not going to cough up another $1000 deductible to make a claim through my insurance.
So, I said I'd sue them if they didn't pay for it. They thought I was bluffing. I went through the lot with my digital camera and took pictures of the 'secure' lot and of the damage. I tallied up the damage and it came in just under the amount for small claims court. I then had a lawyer write a letter demanding reimbursement. We settled out of court for an agreed upon amount.
Get a lawyer to write a letter. You'll get a fast response.
It's unfortunate we live in such a world where people won't do the right thing. It's cheaper for them to settle with you without going to court. Also, you can always give them a nice review on the BBB.
My car of which I no longer have was stolen. It was found about 5 days later. I called a local dealer to fix the whatever damage occurred. This dealer subcontracted out the work.
To make a long story shorter, the car was vandalized (seats, shift knob, and some suspension parts stolen) while at the repair shops lot. I was quite upset, and thought without question they would replace everything. They said no and wouldn't even call the police while I was working. So I had to go the next day to file a report. I was not going to cough up another $1000 deductible to make a claim through my insurance.
So, I said I'd sue them if they didn't pay for it. They thought I was bluffing. I went through the lot with my digital camera and took pictures of the 'secure' lot and of the damage. I tallied up the damage and it came in just under the amount for small claims court. I then had a lawyer write a letter demanding reimbursement. We settled out of court for an agreed upon amount.
Get a lawyer to write a letter. You'll get a fast response.
It's unfortunate we live in such a world where people won't do the right thing. It's cheaper for them to settle with you without going to court. Also, you can always give them a nice review on the BBB.
scottgf
Viper Owner
Sean,
Sorry to hear of your problem.
I have worked for car dealers for over 20 years (mostly in parts and service) and I must say things like this do not speak well of us dealers.
That having been said, I believe, the dealer is not legally responsible for the damage, that is what your auto insurance is for.
Now for the sake of customer goodwill, I would hope some sort of compromise would be able to be achieved.
I know at the dealer I currently work for (Cadillac/ Land Rover) if this happened here, and things like this have, we have stepped up to the plate and taken care of the customer, even though we probably didnt legally have to.
We have been owned by the same familly for over 50 years and things like this are probably how we have stayed in business so long.
At another dealer I worked at, a customer's car was stolen off the service lot, and the manager simply called the customer up and told him to call his insurance Co. (That must have been a fun call to make), the dealer assumed no liability.
I would suggest CALMLY, try to speak to the dealer principal regarding your situation, I always feel the nicer one is, more more they can expect to gain. Even if you have "gone off" on the service advisors already maybe try to say you are sorry and try to start over. This may sound wimpy, but if it achieves what you want, what the heck.
If you go in there trying to kick a$$ and take names, if there is ANY chance they can do nothing for you, they probably will. I wouldnt go with the "Ill sue you Ba$tards" just yet.
Best of luck on this....keep us posted
ps. Most insurance policies are zero deductable on vandelism (sp)
Cheers,
Sorry to hear of your problem.
I have worked for car dealers for over 20 years (mostly in parts and service) and I must say things like this do not speak well of us dealers.
That having been said, I believe, the dealer is not legally responsible for the damage, that is what your auto insurance is for.
Now for the sake of customer goodwill, I would hope some sort of compromise would be able to be achieved.
I know at the dealer I currently work for (Cadillac/ Land Rover) if this happened here, and things like this have, we have stepped up to the plate and taken care of the customer, even though we probably didnt legally have to.
We have been owned by the same familly for over 50 years and things like this are probably how we have stayed in business so long.
At another dealer I worked at, a customer's car was stolen off the service lot, and the manager simply called the customer up and told him to call his insurance Co. (That must have been a fun call to make), the dealer assumed no liability.
I would suggest CALMLY, try to speak to the dealer principal regarding your situation, I always feel the nicer one is, more more they can expect to gain. Even if you have "gone off" on the service advisors already maybe try to say you are sorry and try to start over. This may sound wimpy, but if it achieves what you want, what the heck.
If you go in there trying to kick a$$ and take names, if there is ANY chance they can do nothing for you, they probably will. I wouldnt go with the "Ill sue you Ba$tards" just yet.
Best of luck on this....keep us posted
ps. Most insurance policies are zero deductable on vandelism (sp)
Cheers,
Tom Sessions
Enthusiast
Where was the car when it was broken into.Was it inside of there shop or did they leave it outside in the parking lot?I think this makes a difference.Inside they are responsable where as if it was in the parking lot it would be left up to your insurance.Even though they should have known better than to leave a viper outside.
TOOOFST
Enthusiast
Sean,sorry to hear bud.You've had bad luck with vandels since you got the car.
You know i'm friends with you and guys at Finish Line.I've always helped/worked on your car too.
They've got a slightly different story:You called and said you'd drop your car off Monday last week.You decided to drop it off Friday(sometime after the dealer closed)and without talking with service manager or people at the dealer.You left the car in the lot.YOU know(or you should) Finish line doesn't have a closed lot.There connected to valley Lodge bar.The service manager didn't expect to see your car monday morning,especially with that damage.They would never leave a viper in the back lot over the weekend.They would put it inside,next to the other 3-4 vipers there now.You also know service doesn't work on Saturday.The service manager we know feels like **** about it even though he didn't know it was coming and had no control of any vandelism or theft outside the building after hours.
I know you to be level headed and carefull with your car since its been vandelized in the past,so whatup!
Worst case you've got to pay your deductable.I'd bet Finish Lines saved that with the work done in the past anyway,and knowing how hard you push that thing,you'll save in the future too.Shouldn't have fixed the window R/T10 rule dood.
PS.I'd like to see you dyno again next sat 24th www.illinoisvipes.com
You know i'm friends with you and guys at Finish Line.I've always helped/worked on your car too.
They've got a slightly different story:You called and said you'd drop your car off Monday last week.You decided to drop it off Friday(sometime after the dealer closed)and without talking with service manager or people at the dealer.You left the car in the lot.YOU know(or you should) Finish line doesn't have a closed lot.There connected to valley Lodge bar.The service manager didn't expect to see your car monday morning,especially with that damage.They would never leave a viper in the back lot over the weekend.They would put it inside,next to the other 3-4 vipers there now.You also know service doesn't work on Saturday.The service manager we know feels like **** about it even though he didn't know it was coming and had no control of any vandelism or theft outside the building after hours.
I know you to be level headed and carefull with your car since its been vandelized in the past,so whatup!
Worst case you've got to pay your deductable.I'd bet Finish Lines saved that with the work done in the past anyway,and knowing how hard you push that thing,you'll save in the future too.Shouldn't have fixed the window R/T10 rule dood.
PS.I'd like to see you dyno again next sat 24th www.illinoisvipes.com
Sean, You better get back on here and post a response. Man this irritates me more than anything. Here you have hundreds of people feeling sorry for you telling you how stupid and crappy this dealer is for not parking the Viper inside and they didn't even have a chance! You slam their name, city and state. That's as crappy as it gets.
Tell the whole story.
Tell the whole story.
Vipera Russelli
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Ummm, in light of the information TOOOFST has posted, if accurate, perhaps the Wal-Mart parking lot analogy was fitting after all.
scottgf
Viper Owner
hmmmmm
The plot thickens.......
Maybe my brother dealer isnt the bad guy after all.......
Whats the story Sean???
ps. It still ***** the car was messed with...Hope you find who did it.
Cheers,
The plot thickens.......
Maybe my brother dealer isnt the bad guy after all.......
Whats the story Sean???
ps. It still ***** the car was messed with...Hope you find who did it.
Cheers,
Wild Bill
Enthusiast
Gotta love half story inforamtion
O.K., Here goes. I am the service manager in question at the dealer in question. Sean had the vehicle in for service at the end of March for some concerns, one of which was a coolant leak. My tech., found the upper radiator hose clamp on Sean's silicone radiator hose was loose, after talking to Sean we agreed it would be best to replace the clamp and try again. Later that week he called me to say it was still leaking and now was overheating, I told him to bring it in the following Monday after lunch and I would have the tech. look at it immediately, Sean said he would try bleeding the system himself and if that did not work he would bring it in on Monday. Monday came and went and no Sean, so o.k. bleeding it fixed it, great. The following Monday I arrived at the dealership to open up and found Sean's car parked in back of the building, an un-gated portion of the lot, at the rear entrance to the service department with the rear glass shattered. I called the local pd and had a report made, while waiting for the cops I called Sean to let him know what had happened, and to tell him that I was going to call the glass shop we regularly use to come and install a new window. No, we did not discuss price at this time, yeah I probably should have covered my rear and given him a price but it seemed something of a mute point as the glass was gone and had to be replaced. The glass was installed and we corrected the coolant leak, timing cover gasket, and I called Sean to let him know it was done. With good reason Sean was surprised and upset at the price and told me it was the dealership responsibility to pay for the replacement. I explained that it was not and that, as MarvS pointed out, the nite drop envelope had a disclaimer that was signed by him. He told me that was b.s. and hung up on me. I, as Toofast pointed out, have helped Sean out on several occasions in the past, like when he snapped a half shaft and needed the car back asap and nobody had one, Toofast came up with a parts and I stayed late at a previous dealer to perform the repairs because the techs had all left. I know this does not have any bearing on this situation but I hope is lends to my credibility and desire to take care of viper owners and customers in general. I have a policy as Toofast stated of not leaving vipers outside even for a night, let alone a weekend. If there were anything that I could have done to keep this situation from happening I would have, but I did not even know the car was coming and certainly did not know it was there until Monday morning. Yes, we ate Sean's $100 service contract deductible, as little as that may be. The glass was installed and than at Sean's request removed after installation, later that day Sean called me to ask me to re-install the glass a second time as he had contacted his insurance and they would reimburse him directly. We reinstallled the glass and Sean picked up the car after service hours and paid his bill, I was not there as I was helping another VCA member with his Viper at his house. When I arrived this morning 15 April 2004 I found two rather wide burnout marks in the service floor where his car was parked. I was told by the sales staff that he drove the vehicle out of the service department himself, else I would be firing a porter. I was more than willing to let that slide as I understand that he was upset but after reading the post this am, I could not. Toofast's shop is a stones throw from my shop and he is here on a regular basis as are many Ill. VCA members and I think all know that I am a pretty easy going guy and will go out of my way to help a member any time I get the chance but this ticks me off. I know I am rambling but I felt that I needed to set the record straight, even though Toofast gave you the condensed version which was accurate. I never told Sean we would "take care of everything". What I said was we would get the glass installed and police report so he would not have to worry about it.
Thanks for listening and I hope this clears things up a bit.
If anyone has questions or want to e-mail me feel free.
[email protected]
Thanks for listening and I hope this clears things up a bit.
If anyone has questions or want to e-mail me feel free.
[email protected]
ChicagoGTS
Enthusiast
I've been going to finishline for about a year now and I could tell you that they are not the closest dealer to my house (30 miles). It took me 3 months last year to find a dealer I could trust and that would take care of me (Ala sig.). I've been to Elmhurst, Downers, Champion, and about 4 others within 50 miles of my house. This is not meant to be a slam, just a testimony, but you are more than welcome to explore other avenues in terms of dealers. Outside of Roanoke (never been, too far but their rep. speaks for itself). It's my opinion that Finishline is one of the most Viper friendly 
dealers I know of within 100 miles of chicago. Tom has always gone well out of his way to accomodate my needs and Mike is an top notch Viper tech. I'm sorry for the mess your in but please don't publicly slam the dealer if you know this is the truth. The Service Team at finishline works diligently to take care of us and I'm certain relies on there reputation for future business within our community. As good as this site could be for promotion purposes it could be equally as damaging.
dealers I know of within 100 miles of chicago. Tom has always gone well out of his way to accomodate my needs and Mike is an top notch Viper tech. I'm sorry for the mess your in but please don't publicly slam the dealer if you know this is the truth. The Service Team at finishline works diligently to take care of us and I'm certain relies on there reputation for future business within our community. As good as this site could be for promotion purposes it could be equally as damaging. joe117
Enthusiast
sean4180,
If tommygun's story is correct, I'd say the mods should kick you out of here.
If tommygun's story is correct, I'd say the mods should kick you out of here.
Janni
Enthusiast
Tommy,
Thank you very much for taking the time to professionally respond to this post. It speaks volumes for you and your dealership. Your business will not suffer because of this - in fact, I would guess that it would grow based on your thorough explanation.
Thank you.
Sean,
If you dropped your car off after hours in an unsecured area, you ARE 100% responsible and that's why you have insurance.
Thank you very much for taking the time to professionally respond to this post. It speaks volumes for you and your dealership. Your business will not suffer because of this - in fact, I would guess that it would grow based on your thorough explanation.
Thank you.
Sean,
If you dropped your car off after hours in an unsecured area, you ARE 100% responsible and that's why you have insurance.
scottgf
Viper Owner
I am still waiting to hear Sean's reply, but if what my dealership brother Tommygun says is true I would have to agree with what joe117 says.
Even if there is some truth to what Sean says...I REALLY dont like it when people come on this site and slam a vendor BY NAME without stating all the facts.
It is very nice that Tommygun took the time to reply, he sounds like a "stand up" guy. And if Sean had left the dealer I work at, doing a burnout, we probably would have banned him from coming back.
Good Luck to you Tommygun....running a parts or service dept at a dealer is a tough job (I know).
ps....still waiting for your reply Sean
Cheers,
Even if there is some truth to what Sean says...I REALLY dont like it when people come on this site and slam a vendor BY NAME without stating all the facts.
It is very nice that Tommygun took the time to reply, he sounds like a "stand up" guy. And if Sean had left the dealer I work at, doing a burnout, we probably would have banned him from coming back.
Good Luck to you Tommygun....running a parts or service dept at a dealer is a tough job (I know).
ps....still waiting for your reply Sean
Cheers,
Viperfreak2
Enthusiast
Honor, Integrity etc.....you gotta tell the truth if you're gonna cut someone else down for their mistake. Now if Sean comes back (still waiting) and says he talked to so and so at the dealer and that they promised they would bring the car inside after he dropped it off....and didn't. Then the argument swings back the other direction. Either way, I feel the initial post was misleading, and not the whole story. Some people just want the entire audience of the Jerry Springer show to boo them. boo.
well as far as the burn out comment we all do it when were pisst, like when i was out of state and went to a gas station to buy ciggs the guy told me he can't except my ct id so i was pisst and did a burn out as well.
I agree with what most of you have said it does speak volumes that he comes on here like a stand up guy, eager to explain what happend, so i would have to say i would bring my car to his dealer if i was in the area.
Keep in mind there are always 2 sides to a story we have both now its just a matter of who is telling the truth,so let sean reply he may totally disareee with what tommy said but lets hear it asumpions are the mother of all fukk ups always remember that.
Sean come and defend your self and tell us whats up
I agree with what most of you have said it does speak volumes that he comes on here like a stand up guy, eager to explain what happend, so i would have to say i would bring my car to his dealer if i was in the area.
Keep in mind there are always 2 sides to a story we have both now its just a matter of who is telling the truth,so let sean reply he may totally disareee with what tommy said but lets hear it asumpions are the mother of all fukk ups always remember that.
Sean come and defend your self and tell us whats up
Wild Bill
Enthusiast
I have to say that if I lived in the area I would not hesitate to take my car to Tommy. He sounds like a stand up guy. If anything this should help his business.
Now for Sean4180, giving LESS than half the story, well-who will ever believe him again?
Guess who's rep was helped and whose was hurt?
Bill
Now for Sean4180, giving LESS than half the story, well-who will ever believe him again?
Guess who's rep was helped and whose was hurt?
Bill
scottgf
Viper Owner
No we dont.
Im not saying I never lost my temper....It still doesnt make it ok...
I try to remember when im driving my Viper that I am kind of representing all Viper owners, if i flip someone the bird because he's going too slow in the fast lane or whatever...the main thing that person will remember is that Viper owners are a$$ holes and maybe the next time you leave your Viper parked behind a car dealer for the weekend, or what ever, it may be vandelized, just because another Viper owner did a burnout in a gas station parking lot or car dealership.
Think about that next time you are tempted.....They wont remember what kind of car cut them off if it was a Honda Accord, but our Vipers are very memorable.
Sorry for the rant and hijacking the thread to a degree.
....still waiting Sean.....
Cheers,
Big Medicine
Enthusiast
Meanwhile, back at the ranch.........
