Initial testing of roeracing 710 camshaft

[Twister]

Before I begin, this is the preliminary testing and results from Dyno, Quartermile and Drivability based soley on the first RoeRacing tune sent via email to my SCT tuner. A rough draft tune so to speak

My viper is a 2003 SRT10




DYNO NUMBERS


In Jan 2011 with the following modifications

Stock cam
Kn air intake
Custom titanium exhaust
No cats
Harland sharp roller rockers
findanza lightweight flywheel
Under drive pully
Abs wires
Baush plugs
Sct tune
Car dynoed 487 rwhp and 522 rwt at BSMs Dynojet


Today in Dec 2011 with the added modifications

RoeRacing 710 cam
Behive springs at 600 lift
Forged pushrods
Gen4 head gaskets (slightly thinner than Gen3)
Revised sct tune
Car dynoed 527 rwhp and 556 rwt at BSMs Dynojet

Thats a 40 rwhp and 34rwt gain.

This is still on the initial tune sent from RoeRacing. The Air Fuel Ratio was a very rich and a power robbing 11.3 from 4800 rpm to 6000 rpm. We belieave that with a retune from RoeRacing that has the Air fuel Ratio at 13.0 another 25-35 rwhp will be gained


IN SHORT THE 710 CAMSHAFT IS ACTUALLY CAPABLE OF THE 50-70 HP GAIN ROERACING ADVERTISES WITH ZERO HEADWORK

Dyno testing of the revised SCT tune to have the Air Fuel Ratio at 13.0 will be conducted Saturday 24 Dec 2011






QUARTERMILE


1000 feet elevation in tropical temperatures rangeing from 73-77 degree Hawaiian night time air. Surface is non prepped and rear tire psi is 28 psi warm on all quartermile passes


Quartermile testing with stock cam and modifications at 487 rwhp revealed consistent 11.8-12.0 at 120-122 mph

Quartermile testing with 710 cam and modifications at 527 rwhp revealed consistent 11.5-11.7 at 123-125 mph

Again the 710 camshafts performance data is based on the initial SCT tune with the rich 11.3 Air Fuel Ratio




DRIVABILITY


This was my biggest concern when contemplating the 710 camshaft.

WITHOUT A DOUBT THIS IS NO CONCERN AT ALL. THE EXHAUST NOTE SOUNDS LUMPIER THAN WITH THE STOCK CAMSHAFT BUT THE 710 CAMMED SRT10 VIPER DRIVES JUST LIKE A STOCK 2003 VIPER.



VIDEO OF 710 CAMSHAFT SOUND

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=EYLyUfhT9-I



CHRISTMAS EVE redyno with new SCT tune will be posted this coming Saturday.

 

[SlayerLS1]

Good info. Look forward to the rest.

 

[Twister]

Thanks Slayer

 

[SnakeBitten]

Very nice gains even with the preliminary tune. Not too far off stock Gen IV numbers both trap speed and hp wise. With the new tune possibly picking up 25+hp as you say you will be right there with the Gen IV's. With heads you may well be into the 130's trap speed wise. Car sounds great.

 

[345s-bspinnin]

Thanks for very detailed post Twister. When you do get Sean's tune, please do post dyno curves if possible. I am curious to see what the mid-range curves look like.

 

[ulllose]

Great write up for someone thats on the fence with this Cam. Car sounds great also

 

[Twister]

345sbspinnin. The graph is actually pretty good through the midrange and I wasnt expecting my torque to be so high. Ill post the graphs from the dyno pull this saturday.

Ulllose. Thanks. Thats exactly what Im trying to do. I went into this project basically blind. I visted multiple srt10 ram sites and joined and asked questions as well as extensively searched this site and the other viper forums with negative results. I probally invested 20 hours searching for results from this camshaft. But like always when your talking about a vehicle as rare as a Gen3 viper with maybe 5K units world wide, well finding results on a camchange is like finding a needle in a hay stack.

RoeRacing personally guaranteed me 50-60 HP increase cam only. I was skepticle to say the leaste but figured as long as I picked up 20 rwhp it would be worth it. Afterall a set of headers plus shipping and install was gonna set me back 3k for what Ive been told is a 10-15 rwhp gain from multiple sources. Figured 3300$ total for the cam,pushrods,springs and gaskets plus install and tune for a 20 rwhp gain would be a better return then the headers.

BUT HEY WHAT DO YOU KNOW...ROERACING DELIVERED. Im around a 46 crank HP improvement the way shes sitting right now and my mechanic and I wouldnt be surprised if she surpasses the 50-60 crank HP mark after the retune. Weve actually got bets goin around the shop and 555 rwhp is the number most are guessing once shes leaned up.

If and thats a big IF we are correct that would be a 68 rwhp improvement and 75 crank HP improvement. RoeRacing touts the 70 HP number cam only for the 710 cam. I called them up several times and annoyed the hell out of them with questions of disbelief. Thats when I was personally guaranteed the 50-60 crank HP improvement number.

 

[351carlo]

Thanks for this data, it looks great and the car sounds healthy.

What settings was WinPep on for smoothing and correction factor? That graph was very choppy.

I've made a 40+ rwhp difference just playing with correction factors in the past. I assume your settings were the same back to back, but it's still nice to have that as a note.

 

[Twister]

It was a really rainy day when we dynoed. I played around with various settings and the lowest for the stock camshaft was 475 sae and the highest was 487 standard. The lowest for the 710 camshaft was 515 sae. 516 uncorrected. 521 DIN. 527 standard

Was a 40 rwhp jump regardless of correction factor

Smoothing seemed to make no differance. Less than 1 rwhp. The top end is extremely choppy because of being so rich jumping around from 1q. 1 to 11.4 from 4800 till 6000 rpm

540 sae is the goal. Thats gen4 power plus my car has tasteful weight reduction at 3280 pounds all fluids topped off.

Im getting tunes sent via email. I bet in your hands you could pull 65 rwhp from this cam with your tuneing knowledge.

 

[Twister]

Just got off the phone with Sean Roe. Told him about my Air Fuel Ratio being low 11s and he said he should be able to get me another 10-20 rwhp by getting it to 12.8. Hes also gonna look into the timing as I told him I can run 93 pump instead of 92. He will send me the new tune later today.

I cant dyno it till this saturday but I sure can go do some quartermile passes tomorrow to see if the new tune picks up any power.

 

[351carlo]

It was a really rainy day when we dynoed. I played around with various settings and the lowest for the stock camshaft was 475 sae and the highest was 487 standard. The lowest for the 710 camshaft was 515 sae. 516 uncorrected. 521 DIN. 527 standard

Was a 40 rwhp jump regardless of correction factor

Smoothing seemed to make no differance. Less than 1 rwhp. The top end is extremely choppy because of being so rich jumping around from 1q. 1 to 11.4 from 4800 till 6000 rpm

540 sae is the goal. Thats gen4 power plus my car has tasteful weight reduction at 3280 pounds all fluids topped off.

Im getting tunes sent via email. I bet in your hands you could pull 65 rwhp from this cam with your tuneing knowledge.

I understand your wanting to use STD numbers, but for comparisons sake SAE is preferred. SAE corrects to a given temperature, humidity and pressure allowing for relative comparisons from location to location. While your numbers are perfectly fine for back to back comparison, like you saw there is a 12 HP difference between SAE and STD for your setup. Someone may see the 527 STD number and think it's a really close runner for a 540-550 SAE Gen IV when in reality it's not as close.

For a reference, my car with just an intake, tune and catback made:

SAE
472/517

STD
486/532

Uncorrected
489/535

Now this doesn't take into account dyno differences, but for a Dynojet to Dynojet comparison we should be close. Again this means little for actual power numbers, but is the closest comparison we can get for relative improvements from person to person. If we had perfectly setup drag cars the MPH would be a great indicator, but there is even more variation in that from track to track and driver to driver.

 

[wikkid]

Car sounds pretty darn good. Love the lope you got going on. Is that a Borla exhaust hangin out past the rockers..... or some special pipe work done at Midas LOL lookin good Twister

 

[Twister]

Custom titanium. My complete exhaust system weighs 10 pounds. Weighed both sides my self. 5 pounds each side. Cross pipes and cats are deleted.

 

[Twister]

I understand your wanting to use STD numbers, but for comparisons sake SAE is preferred. SAE corrects to a given temperature, humidity and pressure allowing for relative comparisons from location to location. While your numbers are perfectly fine for back to back comparison, like you saw there is a 12 HP difference between SAE and STD for your setup. Someone may see the 527 STD number and think it's a really close runner for a 540-550 SAE Gen IV when in reality it's not as close.

For a reference, my car with just an intake, tune and catback made:

SAE
472/517

STD
486/532

Uncorrected
489/535

Now this doesn't take into account dyno differences, but for a Dynojet to Dynojet comparison we should be close. Again this means little for actual power numbers, but is the closest comparison we can get for relative improvements from person to person. If we had perfectly setup drag cars the MPH would be a great indicator, but there is even more variation in that from track to track and driver to driver.

Agreed. However one thing I have realized about the internet is that 90 percent of the numbers people post are standard/uncorrected. SAE is posted as often as average quartermile times are.

An individual can run 50, 12.1s @120 mph and have another 24 passes at 12.3-12.8 at 118-120 mph
BUT HE RUNS THAT ONE 11.8 AT 122 MPH OUT OF 75 RUNS AND GUESS WHAT GOES IN HIS SIGNATURE?

SAE 475 vs 515
STD 487 vs 527

While I have your attention.... My mechanic found some catalytic material on his dyno. We cant be certain but belieave it may be mine. So now we arent sure if the tuneing caused the running rich up top or if my converters are bad. My cat delete is the converter just before the exhaust exit. However the precat just after the headers is still in place.

Could a chocked converter robb my power and cause the low 11s AFR?

Lol... Ayways somthing....

 

[351carlo]

I'd say perpetuating the inflated numbers is just as wrong as posting them to begin with. You also don't talk about your average bowling score or marathon time, you talk about your best.

The first cat is the one you'd want to get rid of anyway. Get that thing cleared out. Yes a converter will take power, especially if it's a stock converter.

You say the converter just before the exhaust exit, but it goes Header---Cat1---Cat2---Muffler---Crossover---Tailpipe on a stock system. Are you sure the second cat was deleted and not something else?

 

[AbsolutHank]

Very good gains Twister...waiting for your dyno results this weekend.

So, for real, no problems with driveability?

 

[Twister]

Then cat2 muffler cross pipe are deleted. Cat1 still in place

And for real drivability is awesome

351carlo, Way I see it is if I said she made 475 rwhp stock cam (never mentioning sae) and then said she made 527 rwhp with the 710 cam (never mentioning STD) indicating that I gained 52 rwhp then this would be wrong.

I indicated a 40 rwhp gain that she indeed did make and used the method that most here use when they post dyno numbers. I created a bolt on Gen3 dyno list on this forum a few years back and almost no one knew their Sae numbers.

 

[Twister]

LOOK.. NOT ONE PERSON KNEW IF THEIR NUMBER WAS SAE/STD ECT. I need to update this thing!


Modified as of 12 Apr 2011 and Id love to add YOU to the list

NAME-Steve B YEAR-2003 RWHP/RWT-534/557 TYPE DYNO-Dyno Dynamics MODIFICATIONS-KN filters...American raceing headers...Corsa exhaust...A&C SCT tune

NAME-Dipapa YEAR-2005 RWHP/RWT-521/538 TYPE DYNO-Dyno Dynamics MODIFICATIONS-KN intake...headers...no cats...VEC3 tune...67mm throttle body...light weight flywheel

NAME-Dimitrios YEAR-2005 RWHP/RWT-513/569 TYPE DYNO-Mustang MODIFICATIONS-Ab's quality wires...3" Corsa...no cats...K&N Cold Air...ROE SCT Flash

NAME-Copperhead245 "Ron R" YEAR-2005 RWHP/RWT-508/522 TYPE DYNO-Mustang MODIFICATIONS-Kn filters...x metal throttle body...autolite XP985 spark plugs...Big Brakes Daves under drive pulley...corsa exhaust...SCT tune

NAME-MikeR YEAR-2005 RWHP/RWT-508/522 TYPE DYNO-??? MODIFICATIONS-green filters...m&M headers...Corsa exhaust...no cats..Big brakes Daves under drive pulley...X metal throttle body...DC tune...XP985 spark plugs

NAME-Gonabite YEAR-2006 RWHP/RWT-499/550 TYPE DYNO-Dyno Jet MODIFICATIONS-American raceing headers..High flow cats...B&B cat back exhaust...SCT tune

NAME-Shandon YEAR-2005 RWHP/RWT-492/517 TYPE DYNO-??? MODIFICATIONS-Balanger Headers...Corsa exhaust...No cats...BBK throttle body...KN filters...AB wires...Chromoly Flywheel...VEC3 tune

NAME-Trymyz YEAR-2005 RWHP/RWT-491/485 TYPE DYNO-Dyno Jet MODIFICATIONS-No cats...KN intake...VEC3 tune

NAME-Dragon rider YEAR-2003 RWHP/RWT-490/525 TYPE DYNO-??? MODIFICATIONS-corsa exhaust...high flow cats...KN intake...sct tune

NAME-Flyntgr YEAR-2005 RWHP/RWT-490/525 TYPE DYNO-??? MODIFICATIONS-Green filters...Headers...cat back exhaust...high flow cats...VEC3 tune...170 degree thermostat

NAME-Reggie YEAR-??? RWHP/RWT-490/523 TYPE DYNO-Dyno Jet MODIFICATIONS-KN filters...headers...cat back exhaust...VE3C tune

NAME-Vinny2 YEAR-2006 RWHP/RWT-482/520 TYPE DYNO-Dyno Jet MODIFICATIONS-KN intake...Mopar exhaust...VEC3 tune

NAME-Nader YEAR-2004 RWHP/RWT-482/511 TYPE DYNO-Mustang MODIFICATIONS-corsa exhaust...single blade throttle body...KN filters...DC tune

NAME-Viper Specialty YEAR-2004 RWHP/RWT-480/520 TYPE DYNO-??? MODIFICATIONS-corsa exhaust...high flow cats...Vec2 tune...RC1DECC spark plugs

NAME-Yelloh YEAR-2005 RWHP/RWT-479/528 TYPE DYNO-??? MODIFICATIONS-Bellanger headers...high flow cats...SCT tune

NAME-GripforceSRT10 YEAR-2005 RWHP/RWT-475/??? TYPE DYNO-??? MODIFICATIONS-corsa exhaust...high flow cats...findanza light weight fly wheel...170 degree thermostat...DC tune

NAME-Mark Guolinos YEAR-2006 RWHP/RWT-472/479 TYPE DYNO-Super Flow MODIFICATIONS-American raceing headers...high flow cats...corsa exhaust...SCT tune

NAME-BlueBatmobile YEAR-2006 RWHP/RWT-470/514 TYPE DYNO-??? MODIFICATIONS-American raceing headers

NAME-B767Driver YEAR-2006 RWHP/RWT-470/477 TYPE DYNO-??? MODIFICATIONS-Bellanger headers...KN intake...no cats...cat back exhaust

NAME-1dumpedviper YEAR-??? RWHP/RWT-461/480 TYPE DYNO-Dyno Jet MODIFICATIONS-comp coupe exhaust...dc tune...170 degree thermostat

NAME-Pteam YEAR-2005 RWHP/RWT-460/497 TYPE DYNO-Dyno Jet MODIFICATIONS-KN intake...corsa exhaust

NAME-Ibstone YEAR-2005 RWHP/RWT-460/470 TYPE DYNO-Super Flow MODIFICATIONS-Bellanger headers...high flow cats...cat back exhaust...3.73 gears...SCT tune

NAME-Dman YEAR-2003 RWHP/RWT-456/487 TYPE DYNO-??? MODIFICATIONS-Bone Stock down to the paper filters

NAME-Texas venom YEAR-2004 RWHP/RWT-454/474 TYPE DYNO-??? MODIFICATIONS-KN intake

NAME-Canyon707 YEAR-2004 RWHP/RWT-443/465 TYPE DYNO-??? MODIFICATIONS-KN intake...Corsa exhaust

 

[351carlo]

While your numbers are perfectly fine for back to back comparison, like you saw there is a 12 HP difference between SAE and STD for your setup. Someone may see the 527 STD number and think it's a really close runner for a 540-550 SAE Gen IV when in reality it's not as close.

Twister I'm not sure there's a need for any more back and forth. I already stated that for back to back comparisons your method is acceptable. Just note which method was used.

The difference between the two is just almost always 4%. Like I said it only matters for those of us who want to compare setups on different cars.

 

[Twister]

Gotcha. No prob

 

[plumcrazy]

SAE is what most people use when quoting rwhp numbers

 

[eucharistos]

thanks for posting your results twister and congrats on the outcome

 

[Twister]

The final testing results will be posted in SAE Plum. Already got the new tune from Sean



Thanks Eucharistos

 

[Canyon707]

I will be in Maui the last week in Jan. Maybe I will hop over and meet you.

 

[Pappa Prich]

Any reason why you didn't add headers to the setup too? Should be a great addition with the other mods.

 

[Twister]

Pappa P rich. As your name suggest we are polar opposits. I would be Pappa P poor. Thats why I dont have headers yet. LOL. Havent decided if I will add heads next year or headers plus throttle body.

 

[Twister]

That would be a pleasure. Ill let you take her for a spin.

 

[Pappa Prich]

Pappa P rich. As your name suggest we are polar opposits. I would be Pappa P poor. Thats why I dont have headers yet. LOL. Havent decided if I will add heads next year or headers plus throttle body.

If what you say is true I would have the Viper now and wouldn't be waiting until the Spring! lol Understood. Once you let that thing breath I bet you'd get another 40whp easy. Congrats on build!

 

[Twister]

ran into a problem with my passenger side catalytic converter. When the 710 cam was first installed I drove it 15 miles not knowing one of my spark plug wires had come loose and the engine was mis fireing and dumping fuel into the exhaust.

The dyno operater found lots of cat metal flakes on the dyno and I found some in my car.

So my appointment has been resheduled for tomorrow and we will be gutting both of the cats just after the headers. The cats on the exhaust are already eliminated.


We will then redyno with the same tune that got us the low 11 afr and 527 rwhp std.

If the afr is still 11s we will redyno with the new tune sent from roe racing that is supposed to get the air fuel ratio to 12.8


Pretty excited and if weather permits Ill post the new dyno numbers plus new quartermile times

 

[eucharistos]