Interesting ZR1 & ACR talk on corvetteforum

[Twister]

few cylinders...LOL...

What kills me is that they had such a great platform to begin with. Imagine the same LS7 thats in the C6Z06 with a forged engine and revised heads and cam for 606 HP and 540 rwhp Naturally asperated.

They did it before back in 2002 when the 2001 Z06 went from 385 HP to 405 HP in 2002 from just a simple cam change..

Going from the 505 HP to 606 all forged HP would really just kept up with Chevy heritage and delivered what people wanted..

Instead they get the 03 cobra of the corvette world that loses 50 HP when it heat soaks and then gets beat out by the 2008 Viper in aceleration test up to 160 mph.

Would be so much more impressive if it were NA...Sure..I know I know the FGT has a supercharger and is highly respected. But Ford has needed superchargers to keep up with the competition in those baby engines they produce for a long time. that was very unchevy/dodge like on GM's part

 

[Viper X]

Have run on a couple of road courses with a few ZR1's along with other friends in their ACRs. They are relatively fast cars until they heat soak, in a couple of laps on a warm day. Then they loose about 100+ hp, more in longer sessions and hot days - and we run by them pretty easily in the straights. Due to their lack of aero, we run circles around them in high speed turns too. I think a Z06 with good tires and a good driver would outrun a ZR1 on a hot day.

The ultimate track car for the money is the Viper ACR. Very few would argue that point, unless they haven't run against one with a decent driver.

On the street, cruising, the ZR1 is pretty hard to beat for comfort and performance.

Dan

 

[Twister]

exactly..it is no secret that FI engines lose quite a bit of power due to heat..

The 606 HP badege would have been killer as well..666 would be awesome but that would be strecthing the LS7's capabilities

 

[CarDude]

Have run on a couple of road courses with a few ZR1's along with other friends in their ACRs. They are relatively fast cars until they heat soak, in a couple of laps on a warm day. Then they loose about 100+ hp, more in longer sessions and hot days - and we run by them pretty easily in the straights. Due to their lack of aero, we run circles around them in high speed turns too. I think a Z06 with good tires and a good driver would outrun a ZR1 on a hot day.

The ultimate track car for the money is the Viper ACR. Very few would argue that point, unless they haven't run against one with a decent driver.

On the street, cruising, the ZR1 is pretty hard to beat for comfort and performance.

Dan

I agree...and I that is what I wrote on the Corvette forum. As that is me that posted about the ACR vs ZR1. The ZR1 feels faster in a straight line, although many camparos don't see it that way. I guess it is the seat of the pants dyno...lying...looks like I need new pants.

 

[Sneaky Pete]

That guy JVP is a complete retard. He should be poster-boy for ZR1 cheerleader of the year! Completely clueless!!!

I'd bet he was the kid that always got his *** kicked in school and walked around saying "I know you are, but what am I?" What a F-****!

 

[CitySnake]

The ultimate track car for the money is the Viper ACR.
On the street, cruising, the ZR1 is pretty hard to beat for comfort and performance.

That's it right there! Can't understand what else there is to talk about.

 

[RTTTTed]

Twister, I understand that millions and millions were spent in the development of the ACR wing and it sells for $15,000? The ZR1 probably needs a lot more than just the wing to keep up to the ACR. (Not a $15000 upgrade).

Seems that the ACR guys figure that the ZR1 is only competitive for a couple laps so I guess the GM guys should build a 738hp engine to become competitive? Just put the blower onto the Z06 engine and lower the compression? Then add the ACR aero and the ZR1 would be a killer car?

If the "intercooled" quad rotor blower is so far superior to our Roe blowers why would it lose any more power than a n/a engine on the track? The FGT does well with it's Roe style blower.

Ted

 

[Twister]

interesting Ted. Your right I havent heard much talk of the FGT heat soaking

 

[Viper X]

interesting Ted. Your right I havent heard much talk of the FGT heat soaking

Funny you should mention this. I've run with a few FGT's on the track too and they don't seem to heat soak as bad as the ZR1's. Not sure why.....

 

[Bigsalgt]

Funny you should mention this. I've run with a few FGT's on the track too and they don't seem to heat soak as bad as the ZR1's. Not sure why.....

Larger supply of outside air via cooling ducts, ! The ZR1 has the same front fascia as the ZO6 and Grand Sport. Doesn't seem GM made any additional openings of any sort to allow fresh, cooler outside air to enter the engine compartment in aiding such intercooler heat soak.

 

[Twister]

They could have used that big ugly hood hole as a duct for kooling lol

 

[Nine Ball]

Heat soak is overrated. I've had five vehicles with a roots/PD blower on them. Yes, they perform about 10-15 rwhp less when at operating/hot temperature vs cold temps. That is about the extent of the heat soak. It doesn't just continue to get worse, it pretty much stays at that lower 10-15 hp reduced level. Big deal! Add a smaller blower pulley or some headers and pick up 100+ hp and you won't miss the 10-15 hp heat soak losses.

Ted, ZR1s have run in the 9s with less than $1,500 in modifications. Blower pulley is about $100, headers a grand, and a custom tune. That is the beauty of a factory forced induction engine, super easy to increase boost.

 

[Viper X]

Heat soak is overrated. I've had five vehicles with a roots/PD blower on them. Yes, they perform about 10-15 rwhp less when at operating/hot temperature vs cold temps. That is about the extent of the heat soak. It doesn't just continue to get worse, it pretty much stays at that lower 10-15 hp reduced level. Big deal! Add a smaller blower pulley or some headers and pick up 100+ hp and you won't miss the 10-15 hp heat soak losses.

Ted, ZR1s have run in the 9s with less than $1,500 in modifications. Blower pulley is about $100, headers a grand, and a custom tune. That is the beauty of a factory forced induction engine, super easy to increase boost.

Maybe heat soak is over-rated at a drag strip, but not on a road course. I've seen it far too may times with Shelby Mustangs, ZR1's and other FI cars. As above, FI cars loose a bunch more power than NA cars on a road course when hot. My own FI Viper (900+ rwhp) loses about 75 rwhp on the dyno when hot.

Dan

 

[Bigsalgt]

Heat soak is overrated.

Heatsoak is overrated, ? Heat soak effects any vehicle, whether on a 1/4 mile track and or a road course. Contrary to your belief, heat soak does and is proven to get worse the longer an engine stays hot and or the inability for an intercooler to cool itself. Intercooler water/methanol/nitrous kits were invented for this very reason.
Google, "Heat Soak", and see how "overrated" it is.

Maybe heat soak is over-rated at a drag strip, but not on a road course. I've seen it far too may times with Shelby Mustangs, ZR1's and other FI cars. As above, FI cars loose a bunch more power than NA cars on a road course when hot. My own FI Viper (900+ rwhp) loses about 75 rwhp on the dyno when hot.

Dan

Agreed, 100%! I had an ICS Stage 2 Turbo BMW M3 that would lose roughly the same power on a hot dyno session. Within two dyno pulls, the method of "Icing" the intake manifold and Intercooler was the only thing that would help.

 

[Bigsalgt]

ZR1s have run in the 9s with less than $1,500 in modifications. Blower pulley is about $100, headers a grand, and a custom tune. That is the beauty of a factory forced induction engine, super easy to increase boost.

There have only been a few recorded 9 second runs, all of which have more then $1,500 in modification cost.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K01BRK5vGtY[/media]
Lingenfelter's setup uses a different cam, S/C pulley, larger coolent setup for the intercooler, clutch, exhaust etc.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NuXUB94LoM[/media]
Same goes with LMR's setup! All of which cost WAY over $1,500.

 

[Twister]

Heat soak is overrated. I've had five vehicles with a roots/PD blower on them. Yes, they perform about 10-15 rwhp less when at operating/hot temperature vs cold temps. That is about the extent of the heat soak. It doesn't just continue to get worse, it pretty much stays at that lower 10-15 hp reduced level. Big deal! Add a smaller blower pulley or some headers and pick up 100+ hp and you won't miss the 10-15 hp heat soak losses.

Ted, ZR1s have run in the 9s with less than $1,500 in modifications. Blower pulley is about $100, headers a grand, and a custom tune. That is the beauty of a factory forced induction engine, super easy to increase boost.

This is by far the worst thing ive seen you post. You are usually spot on but this was just horrible..

My NA 2003 viper with a few bolt ons dynoed 445 rwhp ona hot engine and 476 rwhp on a kool engine..

NA or FI no car loses just 10-15 rwhp when ran hot...

Come on man were you jokeing or somthing???

FI cars rather the ZR1 paxtoned Gen3 cobra ect. all lose 50 PLUS rwhp when ran extensively and hot...And more like 70-100 rwhp..

Even NA engines will lose 25-40 rwhp. I have literally had hundereds of runs of the dyno with camaros and vettes and nsx's and vipers..The camero and nsx were FI and the others were NA..

No way I will belieave a ZR1 magically loses less power than all the other NA and FI cars of the world

Let the ZR1 chill for an hour with ice on the intake and she is a 133 mph vehicle...Do 10 back to back passes and she is a 128 mph vehicle..

These testing days between the ZR1 and viper usually show the viper just as fast or a lil faster..
observe that in the vid they did a practice run in the zr1 and viper for the mile before actually running the mile against the viper.
how much power did the ZR1 lose going balls out for a mile in that hot weather?

im sure this ius why the 130 mph vipers do so well against 133 mph ZR1's.. HEAT SOAk

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

The ZR1 is very fast and most car magazine comparos have it faster than the ACR in 0-60 and 0-100 times as did the Super Car challenge on TV recently. The road course which really counts IMO, the ACR has it hands down. The down side I see with the Vette is the super charger reliability down the road and that it costs/sells for more than the ACR. At least they finally smartened up and got rid of the Goodyear crap for the PS2s. Now if only Nascar would get rid if Goodyear.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Heat soak is overrated. I've had five vehicles with a roots/PD blower on them. Yes, they perform about 10-15 rwhp less when at operating/hot temperature vs cold temps. That is about the extent of the heat soak. It doesn't just continue to get worse, it pretty much stays at that lower 10-15 hp reduced level. Big deal! Add a smaller blower pulley or some headers and pick up 100+ hp and you won't miss the 10-15 hp heat soak losses.

Ted, ZR1s have run in the 9s with less than $1,500 in modifications. Blower pulley is about $100, headers a grand, and a custom tune. That is the beauty of a factory forced induction engine, super easy to increase boost.

Did you ever roadcourse any of your FI'd vehicles for extended laps? Heat soak would affect any FI car hence you see so many of them iced down at either the 1/4 mile or circuit tracks.

OT: On a roadcourse the ZR1 would have no chance against an ACR. I dont know why this is even an issue. Even if one was to swap the ZR1 tires with the ACR tires it still has to face the ACR's down force advantage. The gap may be slimmer due to a tire upgrade but the ACR will still be faster imho. We really need an unbiased test with the 2010 ZR1 vs the 2010 ACR. I love em both but I gotta say on the roadcourse my money will always be on the ACR stock to stock just as my money would always be on the ZR1 on the straights until proven otherwise.

 

[Stealth]

Funny you should mention this. I've run with a few FGT's on the track too and they don't seem to heat soak as bad as the ZR1's. Not sure why.....

FWIW, My buddy is a serious gentleman racer and has won various series many times. He has 2 FGTs and has run many times on a track with FGTs. He says FGTs heat-soak BADLY! NOT a Track car--even weekends. (He races a specially prepared Mitsubishi and also has a GT3, 2 Oreca Vipers that raced at Lemans, etc.)

I agree with those above suggesting that a Z06 is a better track car than a ZR1, although as a former owner of a modded C6Z, I would add that the Z06 needs suspension work. Also, the steering was very light on my '06 and somewhat disconcerting.

Go Viper!

 

[v10enomous]

That's why they will be making the ZO6 Carbon or ZO7. It's basically the ZR1 with the ZO6 engine... Here's a thread on the corvette forum...

ZO6 vs ZR1 again - Corvette Forum

ZO6 Carbon

2011 Corvette Z06 Carbon Limited Edition Announced

 

[v10enomous]

So he traded in the ZO6 and he is selling the 08 Viper. It's a Vert and not a coupe like I thought originally. He wanted the ZR1 but couldn't swing keeping both. Says he loved the Viper but if I drove the ZR1 I wouldn't want to drive a Viper again. He just feels that the Viper doesn't handle well. He also mentioned that the ZR1 also throws a lot of heat like a Viper. He hadn't seen the Supercar battle and wasn't even aware of it. He seemed very surprised when I explained how each competition played out. The Viper seems mint with less than 3K miles and it's for sale at his lot and he put it up on Ebay.

So here is the 2,600 mile 08 Vert that he just sold for $60k even and the ZR1 he just bought... I can see why he would like the ZR1 but he traded in an 07 ZO6 and sold the Viper and had to add money to get it... I'm glad i don't have to make tough decisions like this...

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[RTTTTed]

He sold a low mile Viper and a near new Z06 plus money? Because HIS Viper doesn't handle well?

I hope you pointed out that the ACR is so far superior handling to the ZR1 that there isn't any chance that the ZR1 will come close in any road competition.

He certainly went backwards buying a third or fourth place car (The Enzo and the M12 were both faster than the ZR1 at the Ring. It was only the OLD ACR that beat them all, while missing shifts and overrevving. I personally can't wait to hear how much faster the 2010 ACR is with the better designed wing and much better gear selection. SRT engineers figured that they could have gone aroudn the ring if they would have had a few more runs. GM had the entire day and a complete team to run the ring (it wasn't enough).

Ted

 

[johniew398]

All very interesting discussions concerning the two cars.

As I was sitting in my garage a few minutes ago looking at the two, it's like this:

The ZR1 is a sleek looking car but only car nuts know it is a ZR1 versus a Z06 or even a regular coupe.

Whereas the Viper is just bad ass!

 

[DeLViper]

Whereas the Viper is just bad ass!

+1, absolutely right!

 

[SCSViper]

All very interesting discussions concerning the two cars.

As I was sitting in my garage a few minutes ago looking at the two, it's like this:

The ZR1 is a sleek looking car but only car nuts know it is a ZR1 versus a Z06 or even a regular coupe.

Whereas the Viper is just bad ass!

Love your Black ACR . Not a big fan of the look of the ZR1. Both nice cars, though.

 

[Smokin' 2]

All very interesting discussions concerning the two cars.

As I was sitting in my garage a few minutes ago looking at the two, it's like this:QUOTE]

Man. Life is rough!

I haven't seen a ZR-1 at a road course yet. The demographic of owners I have met has been very nice gentleman in their early 60s that love the two personalities of the car. I had two describe my car as brutal after a 'spirited' ride along. They both said it with a smile.

 

[Twister]

what a sorry garage.....who am I kidding....would you happen to need a left ********?

 

[RTTTTed]

LOL, I was out to my garage and I keep my 2 Vipers (GTS and GTS/ACR) in separate garages. Paxton with Nitrous and Roe TS, Red with silver and Sapphire Blue with silver. Really different cars . I think the Paxton might be faster with the Nitrous Oxide turned on. Wife likes quiet, smooth running Paxton ACR and I like the extreme torque and loud Corsa exh of my GTS.

I'd probably drive my ACR to Cold Lake AFB since I'm too late to compete. Since the ACR is for sale (listed in classifieds) I quit driving it so that I don't add mileage to it's collector value. My GTS has 50,000mi on it and gets better mileage although it doesn't run as smooth or quiet at lower engine speeds. No vettes. 3 Stealth TTs and a BB Duster for variety. Thinking about it, ... no way I'd trade even my 1800bhp Vipers for a ZR1.

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Ted