JFurman..trade your ACR for a 2010ACR

[Twister]

you guys are kidding me with this recerftification stuff right????

rated at oly 600 HP and constantly dynoing 540-560 rwhp means the gen4 is already well over what they are listing...

I agree that if Dodge wanted to claim 620 crank HP they would have to be recertified ect...But to loosen up the pcm just a bit...Well those kinda changes get done all the time on new model years...

I know that after close to 20 years the viper is leaving with a bang..what the hell to they really have to lose?

Did you know that a 1998 camaro was labeled at 300 crank HP and would dyno 290-310 rwhp sae?

Or what about the 2003 Cobra that was labeled at 390 crank HP and dynoed 355-375 rwhp?

****..even with our own 450 hp gen2's it wasnt unherd of to have a few hit 420 rwhp...

So if the 2010 comes out and indeed hits 560 PLUS rwhp dyno's..Well thisnt anything that hasnt been done time and time again..Especially by american labels..

The SRT guys seemed VERY confidant that they were gonna beat that record with the new ACR...Because of only a 5th gear change and "slight " wing change...

im not buying it...theirs more here IMHO

 

[Twister]

No way.....without re-certification....no way

Bill

First off...man am I jelous of your garage..secondly..they dont have to claim more than 600 HP...They can dyno 570 rwhp and still be labeled at only 600 HP...Some of the 08's and 09's now hit close to 560 rwhp..So it's no big deal..

 

[1BADGTS]

When the GEN 2 ACR came out it was only 10 horsepower more (filter and smooth tubes )than a regular Viper and had to be recertified .PLEASE CHECK OUT THE FACTS AS THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY AROUND THIS

 

[bushido]

The car is still in it's devlopement phase. With that being said, this test mule ACR has to be making more power to be able to beat the Devon GTX by 2 seconds. 2 seconds is getting smoked..

 

[bushido]

The Devon GTX is powered by the same 8.4 liter Viper engine,but the power output has been increased to 650hp. This car also has a rear wing,and is most likely lighter than the ACR. But heres the BIG thing. The Devon GTX also runs on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires, and yet this new 2010 ACR beat that car at laguna seca by 2 seconds. Which tells me theres got to be more than just a gear change, and a new rear wing. Another words, this new ACR has to be making more power..

Devon at laguna
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIdXEnuPZos[/media]

2010 ACR at laguna
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyvRPQ6LOxs&feature=player_embedded[/media]

The big question is how much more..

 

[1BADGTS]

The car is still in it's devlopement phase. With that being said, this test mule ACR has to be making more power to be able to beat the Devon GTX by 2 seconds. 2 seconds is getting smoked..

IF its making more power then Dodge stepped up and spent MILLIONS(that they dont have ) on getting of all things a Viper motor recertified.Not for anything but thats beyond far fetched but in accordinance with some of the fantasy theorys mentioned in this thread it fits right in .LOL.

 

[1BADGTS]

First off...man am I jelous of your garage..secondly..they dont have to claim more than 600 HP...They can dyno 570 rwhp and still be labeled at only 600 HP...Some of the 08's and 09's now hit close to 560 rwhp..So it's no big deal..

Certifications are done on ENGINE DYNOS not chasis dynos.

 

[bushido]

IF its making more power then Dodge stepped up and spent MILLIONS(that they dont have ) on getting of all things a Viper motor recertified.Not for anything but thats beyond far fetched but in accordinance with some of the fantasy theorys mentioned in this thread it fits right in .LOL.

Then try to explain to me how it smoked the Devon GTX? Both cars with the same powerplant, same tires, both with aero+ rear wing.

The Devon which is most likely lighter and has 50 more hp than the 08/09 ACRs..

 

[1BADGTS]

Then try to explain to me how it smoked the Devon GTX? Both cars with the same powerplant, same tires, both with aero+ rear wing.

The Devon which is most likely lighter and has 50 more hp than the 08/09 ACRs..

DRIVER WEATHER gear change .What iam saying leaves no room for speculation and can easy be verifyed and proven .ANY change to a motor increasing power requires GOVT recertification and that cost millions DODGE does not have to invest in a design dating back to 2003 .The gear change was intended to benefit ROAD RACING to transpose this into results FOR drag racing forum CAN NOT BE DONE ESP SINCE 3.07 ratio GEN 4 Vipers go thru the lights in 4th gear .(EVEN IF IT COULD BE DONE FOR not PICKING UP 2 TENTHS AND 3MPH in the quarter from it)

 

[bushido]

DRIVER WEATHER gear change .What iam saying leaves no room for speculation and can easy be verifyed and proven .ANY change to a motor increasing power requires GOVT recertification and that cost millions DODGE does not have to invest in a design dating back to 2003.

So whats the big deal about Dodge spending a few million dollars to recertify something? You talk like your Dodge's accountant, and your doing their books. The reality is that your the one speculating. With that being said, 5th gear is almost never used on tight track, such as Laguna Seca. So there must be more done to the car than just 5th gear, and the new rear wing..

 

[Cop Magnet]

You can "beleave" whatever you want. It would take a "a hole lot of added performance" to make those gains happen. Of course, Dodge may have "more up their sleave" than we realize. I know it sounds "unherd" of, but I am "VERY confidant" that "theirs more here IMHO".

Well, anyway, if it's true, I'll be the first to admit I'm "jelous" of you new owners.

 

[TrackAire]

I don't know what the real answer is, but in the video interview of the driver Chris Winkler (not sure of his last names spelling), I did feel that when asked what they did to the 2010 Viper to get this performance, his first attempt at a response to explain it made me suspicious. Then he went on to say we loaded it up, trucked it out here, lowered the ride height, etc. His mannerism and delayed response to the question kinda made me not believe him.

Then again, it might just be me watching too many television episodes of "Lie to Me" and thinking I can read body language.

Cheers,
George

p.s. In one of the videos, it did look like they were bleeding the brakes when the ACR was in the garage...brakes boiling the fluid maybe? I couldn't make out what brand of brake fluid they where were putting back in, did it look like a Motul bottle?

 

[1BADGTS]

Even IF (and thats a big if ) the power were available BEATING a 10.7 on Pilots is still going to be DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE .There are quite a few modded GEN 4 (HEADERS EXHAUST MOPAR PCM GEARS ) making 600 to the tire running down dragstrips ALL over the country. Show me one just one time slips on ANY of these modded cars running 10.6s on stock tires.You cant show me because its NEVER happened .

 

[Ray W]

1BADGTS,I am sure you realize that the addition of a dry sump system and electric muffler by-passes have zero effect on air quality certifications. They could bump the hp an additional 30-40hp however.

 

[1BADGTS]

1BADGTS,I am sure you realize that the addition of a dry sump system and electric muffler by-passes have zero effect on air quality certifications. They could bump the hp an additional 30-40hp however.

Ray ,the engine was not dry sumpted to begin with because that cost too much MONEY.Once again there are quite a few Modded Gen 4s out there producing MORE power THAN YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT(6oo RWHP) show me one ,just one time slip from these modded cars in the 10.6 range on Pilots .You run a Gen 4 have you personally ever come within a half second of a 10.6 bone stock on Pilots i bet not.Power is not the only issue here as Jamie stated the Vette transfer power to the ground better than the Viper and has a better Rear end ratio.Ray since you own both DO YOU DISAGREE with the statement Jamie and other owners of both have made that the ZR-1 is noticeably faster.

 

[Ray W]

I shouldn't have said a complete dry sump/scavenging system. Rather just an electric oil pump instead of a mechanical one. ZR1 sounds and feels faster. In the mile run last week 179mph was the top speed reached in my 08 Viper and the ZR1. As soon as I get a few more miles on the ZR1 I will drag it and compare it to my best time of 11.48@ sea level and 80% humidity in the Viper.

 

[1BADGTS]

I shouldn't have said a complete dry sump/scavenging system. Rather just an electric oil pump instead of a mechanical one. ZR1 sounds and feels faster. In the mile run last week 179mph was the top speed reached in my 08 Viper and the ZR1. As soon as I get a few more miles on the ZR1 I will drag it and compare it to my best time of 11.48@ sea level and 80% humidity in the Viper.

Ray 11.48 is a great time in a stock Gen 4 obviously you have racing experiance .My problem is with these guys who come up with these outlandish theorys about what a Gen 4 Viper SHOULD run and yet have NEVER OWNED ONE OR DRIVEN ONE AT THE TRACK.To them BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO ACTUAL VIPER experiance at a drag strip a DYNO number about what a Gen 4 SHOULD run is gospal.Dyno numbers DO NOT take into consideration a cars chasis or tire ability to HOOK UP to get the power to translate into the ET needed to turn that 10 second run.

 

[Twister]

1BADGTS.....WOW...Look man, All Im saying is that I think they found a way to squeeze out some more power..Thats all...That 10.7 is new to the game..And someone will beat it...Wether another Zr1 or Viper..

I remember for years when We all thought the fastest a stock Gen3 SRT10 could go was 11.7 or 11.69...

In the past 18 months weve had two 11.5's and SEVERAL 11.6's in stock Gen3 SRT10's...

The 10.7 will fall

 

[Twister]

Ray 11.48 is a great time in a stock Gen 4 obviously you have racing experiance .My problem is with these guys who come up with these outlandish theorys about what a Gen 4 Viper SHOULD run and yet have NEVER OWNED ONE OR DRIVEN ONE AT THE TRACK.To them BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO ACTUAL VIPER experiance at a drag strip a DYNO number about what a Gen 4 SHOULD run is gospal.Dyno numbers DO NOT take into consideration a cars chasis or tire ability to HOOK UP to get the power to translate into the ET needed to turn that 10 second run.

I started out running 13.6's at 112 in my srt10 with roller rockers/kn filter and 459 rwhp..15 passes later I was running 12.2's at 120 mph...Anothger 10 passes later and I was running 11.9's at 122mph...

Trust me I know it is HARD...and that was just for an 11.9..Let alone 10.999....But I dont have a 550 rwhp Gen4 Viper and the God Given ability that some do...

so I agree with you....But were talking about Jamie hear...Jamie could run a 13 in a 2000 mustang GT

 

[1BADGTS]

1BADGTS.....WOW...Look man, All Im saying is that I think they found a way to squeeze out some more power..Thats all...That 10.7 is new to the game..And someone will beat it...Wether another Zr1 or Viper..

I remember for years when We all thought the fastest a stock Gen3 SRT10 could go was 11.7 or 11.69...
a time of
In the past 18 months weve had two 11.5's and SEVERAL 11.6's in stock Gen3 SRT10's...

The 10.7 will fall

If you have ever read Jamies comments on his 10.9 Gen 4 VIPER run he was quite adament that the car was ABSOLUTELY topped out(do you think he made that up ) What iam saying is that IF you ever were to actually go to a drapstrip in a stock Gen 4 Viper you would quickly realize that on Pilots a time of 10.6-10.7 is near IMPOSSIBLE and the statistical data backs up EXACTLY what iam saying.Years ago i set up the Drag test of Dan Blacks DLM stage 2 GTS .That car with over 750 tire was running around 10.6s on Pilots .Your theorys are predicated up your experiance with other MAKES ,MODELS ect as you have absolutely none running a Gen 4 which is a different ballgame.

 

[1BADGTS]

PS as far as Jamies driving ability hes the best i have ever seen in a Vette or a Viper and the records back that up. Iam saying its almost impossible (even for him )because to run that kind of et (10.6 )in a 550 rwhp Gen 4 (all the power is up top compared to other Vipers )would require a 60 foot time of 1.3-1.4 range..Guys running full slicks and skinnys on good runs achieve that .Running Pilots a great time is aroung 1.7 Iam telling you the tires just dont him the luxury to launch like he would need to to get that et.

 

[ViperGeorge]

The question I think is will the 2010 ACR be faster than the 2009 ACR and/or the ZR1? The answer, I think, is that (assuming the same driver) the only way for the new ACR to beat the old ACR or the ZR1 is if 1) it has stickier tires (I don't think it does), or 2) it has more HP (not sure about this but my guess is no), or 3) it has lower aerodynamic drag (this may in fact be true based on aero changes and higher top end which was probably drag limited). If my guesses are correct, is it possible that changes in aero alone may improve its 1/4 mile time sufficiently to beat the old ACR or the ZR1?

 

[1BADGTS]

The question I think is will the 2010 ACR be faster than the 2009 ACR and/or the ZR1? The answer, I think, is that (assuming the same driver) the only way for the new ACR to beat the old ACR or the ZR1 is if 1) it has stickier tires (I don't think it does), or 2) it has more HP (not sure about this but my guess is no), or 3) it has lower aerodynamic drag (this may in fact be true based on aero changes and higher top end which was probably drag limited). If my guesses are correct, is it possible that changes in aero alone may improve its 1/4 mile time sufficiently to beat the old ACR or the ZR1?

I dont think people quite realize how much 2 tenths is case being approx 2 full car lengths difference in the quarter mile. I think that MAY be be a tad too much for aero alone to overcome.

 

[MbnViper]

the ring record holder, laguna record holder ! IMHO looks way better than the ZR1 ! a driver race n streets and no match for the ACR at any ring !

what the viper needs to prove ? nothing if you ask me !

 

[F8L SNK]

Come on guys, its an aluminum frame and more weight reduction duh

 

[Twister]

the ring record holder, laguna record holder ! IMHO looks way better than the ZR1 ! a driver race n streets and no match for the ACR at any ring !

what the viper needs to prove ? nothing if you ask me !

well said....I agree 1000000000000%%%%%%%%%

But....A lil more rwhp from srt would defiently let her die with an even bigger bang....Advertising more HP would be a slap in the face to 2008 and 2009 owners....But a lil more under the table rwhp would really seal the deal of the ultimate american sports car...At the club...At the track..or on the strip..
Right now the Viper has the wow factor at the club and the overall faster times at the track..While the Zr1 is winning at the strip...

man all this talk f the new viper possibly haveing more power is really turning me on..

Think Im on Track for the ********** tonight.....Sorry..couldnt resist..

 

[1BADGTS]

well said....I agree 1000000000000%%%%%%%%%

But....A lil more rwhp from srt would defiently let her die with an even bigger bang....Advertising more HP would be a slap in the face to 2008 and 2009 owners....But a lil more under the table rwhp would really seal the deal of the ultimate american sports car...At the club...At the track..or on the strip..
Right now the Viper has the wow factor at the club and the overall faster times at the track..While the Zr1 is winning at the strip...

man all this talk f the new viper possibly haveing more power is really turning me on..

Think Im on Track for the ********** tonight.....Sorry..couldnt resist..

First of all who said the SRT is DEAD .On top of that your saying Dodge spent millions of dollars (years of time ect )for this secret recertification to get more power and will not market the increase because it would be a slap in the face to past Gen 4 Viper owners (SO EVERYTIME a cars power is increased its NEVER MARKETED because it would be a slap in the face to previous generations of owners )***

 

[ViperGeorge]

I dont think people quite realize how much 2 tenths is case being approx 2 full car lengths difference in the quarter mile. I think that MAY be be a tad too much for aero alone to overcome.

I do realize that 2 tenths is huge in drag racing. Given the three things I mentioned in my first post, stickier tires, more HP, or less aero drag, which of these items does the ZR1 capitalize on to beat the ACR? I keep reading that the ACR's engine is underrated and may not be weaker than the ZR1's. The ACR has a huge wing and clearly is aero disadvantaged in the 1/4 mile but it probably has stickier tires (the Pilot Cups). Does the ZR1 have a better torque curve? i.e. more torque lower in the RPM band? Just curious.

 

[Twister]

First of all who said the SRT is DEAD .On top of that your saying Dodge spent millions of dollars (years of time ect )for this secret recertification to get more power and will not market the increase because it would be a slap in the face to past Gen 4 Viper owners (SO EVERYTIME a cars power is increased its NEVER MARKETED because it would be a slap in the face to previous generations of owners )***

dude..The srt10 is gone with the wind bro..They said 2010 is the last year..With somthing new in 2012...That 2012 will be a totally differant car..With lots of influence from ferrari and possibly under a differant label than Viper...

Once they said engineering from ferrari I knew it was all over..I mean really...With the ACR selling much better than they ever expected for 100K a pop...Why stop makeing them????

The vipers gone after the 2010's roll out...Thats why Im bending over backwards to get a 2003 srt to add with my 91 nsx right now...Two of the first years of extinct beaste...it'll be my third viper....i wouldnt be buying it if they hadnt announced the death of the viper in 2010..

But if it's true and the viper dos die in 2010 and comes back in 2012 as a totally differant car with a 6.0 V10 ferrari influanced engine and 650 HP for a price of 125K and they call it something else......

THEN IM ANTICIPATEING THE VIPERS TO HOLD STEADY OR RISE IN VALUE..

MY bUDDY JUST SOLD HIW 2005 NSX FOR 68k...Ive had offers of 31K on my 1991 nsx...I honestly think a SRT10 is the better car in every single way..But nsx sell for MUCH more year vrs year simply because they dont make them any more...

Hopefully the viper will do the same.


Anyways..got off topic a bit..2010 Viper is gonna be F-A-S-T

 

[1BADGTS]

I do realize that 2 tenths is huge in drag racing. Given the three things I mentioned in my first post, stickier tires, more HP, or less aero drag, which of these items does the ZR1 capitalize on to beat the ACR? I keep reading that the ACR's engine is underrated and may not be weaker than the ZR1's. The ACR has a huge wing and clearly is aero disadvantaged in the 1/4 mile but it probably has stickier tires (the Pilot Cups). Does the ZR1 have a better torque curve? i.e. more torque lower in the RPM band? Just curious.

The ZR-1 is lighter ,has a better rear end ratio ,its engine makes a little more power its chasis is better suited to drag race and the car posts better aero numbers.ET represents horsepower while trap speed at the end of the quarter mile represents or is an indication of TRUE HORSEPOWER . Jamie best times WERE NOT posted in his ACR but his Gen 4 roadster.Another importantant factor here is in Jamies expert opinion that the Gen4 was ABSOLUTELY MAXED out running 10.9 at near 130 was while the ZR-1 had not reached its potential at 10.7 at near 134.