Latest from Edmunds. Dyno test.

[v10enomous]

Cool... I can still remember the rumblings on the forum when the rumor started that they were going back to the Ring with 2010 car The suspense leading up to the time and the video was incredible. We need that right about now

The bottom line on all of this comparo data so far is that the Chevy people have the SRT people on the defensive. SRT needs to reboot its way of thinking about marketing a bit and take actions that rapidly shift the burden of proof back to Chevy. If it were me, I would have brought a Gen V with a properly varified suspension set up with a track pack back to leguna ASAP with the appropriate witnesses and taken back the record. The burden would then shift back to Chevy and the debate going on here would be going on over there. The same thing could be done on the dyno issue. SRT says it bought a ZR1. Bring it to an independent dyno shop with a Gen V with the appropriate witnesses. Make sure both cars are set up on the dyno for the best results. Run the tests again and publish the results on twitter, Facebook, Jalopnik, etc. Corporations tend to move slowly. Sometimes TOO slowly. To me this is a no brainer strategy.

 

[v10enomous]

Go to the 1:10 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC-PQca6FJU

 

[v10enomous]

Watch this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3qgoI_OHtI

 

[SnakeBitten]

If GM did cheat with the the ZR1 like was intimated on here then the only way SRT could win is by sending out a ringer GTS too. Unless they cheat or just plain give the Viper more power with better tires and brakes[which is what I prefer they do] they will never win one of these comparos. The masses dont know about the mfg's practice of sending ringers to mag tests so the majority just see Vette kills Viper.

I wish SRT would release the lap time difference they got between these two cars in their testing. It would be at the very least eyeopening.....

Interesting ZR1 dyno numbers in those videos...

 

[ViperSmith]

I'd venture to bet you won't see much more until they start rolling off the line and shipping

 

[mnc2886]

I'd venture to bet you won't see much more until they start rolling off the line and shipping

I thought I read Ralph said SRT would go back to Laguna after the first of the year?

 

[ViperSmith]

Maybe, but I think if they rolled it with a production car, it would say a lot more than a mule. No "needs tweaking" excuses anymore.

 

[ViperSmith]

And I'd really like to know, was the Edmunds ZR1 that tested through the roof the same that was at Laguna?

 

[bushido]

And I'd really like to know, was the Edmunds ZR1 that tested through the roof the same that was at Laguna?

No different ZR1. The one at Laguna was red..

 

[commandomatt]

The bottom line on all of this comparo data so far is that the Chevy people have the SRT people on the defensive. SRT needs to reboot its way of thinking about marketing a bit and take actions that rapidly shift the burden of proof back to Chevy. If it were me, I would have brought a Gen V with a properly varified suspension set up with a track pack back to leguna ASAP with the appropriate witnesses and taken back the record. The burden would then shift back to Chevy and the debate going on here would be going on over there. The same thing could be done on the dyno issue. SRT says it bought a ZR1. Bring it to an independent dyno shop with a Gen V with the appropriate witnesses. Make sure both cars are set up on the dyno for the best results. Run the tests again and publish the results on twitter, Facebook, Jalopnik, etc. Corporations tend to move slowly. Sometimes TOO slowly. To me this is a no brainer strategy.

You are assuming it would do better.......maybe SRT isn't as confidant as you are. What if they went back to Laguna....tried again and didn't get the record ? That would certainly be a slap in the face.

I agree with whats been said that we may not see to many more tests for awhile. SRT has some serious regrouping to do.

Matt

 

[ViperSmith]

No different ZR1. The one at Laguna was red..

Thanks




and this is to get past the 10 char min!

 

[PatentLaw]

You are assuming it would do better.......maybe SRT isn't as confidant as you are. What if they went back to Laguna....tried again and didn't get the record ? That would certainly be a slap in the face.

I agree with whats been said that we may not see to many more tests for awhile. SRT has some serious regrouping to do.

Matt

Matt,

You are exactly correct. The only thing "no brainer" about that strategy would be that you would have to have no brain to do it.

Plaw

 

[Bobpantax]

Both of you have obviously not been following Ralph's Tweets and you were not at the South Florida VCA Holiday Party - were you? Stay tuned. Contrary to popular belief, SRT does not consist of a bunch of ignorant people who did not test the ZR1 against the Gen V before the tests that were done. SRT will step up to the plate again and redeem themselves. When that occurs, I hope you like the taste of crow.

 

[PatentLaw]

Yeah....it makes sense....

Put your stock car up against a juiced car track number. Bet the farm..... why not.....

The only way to do it is to actually compare your stock car with a stock ZR1, that came off the lot, with the same driver. Even when you do that, you run the risk of others saying that YOUR car was juiced and the test bogus.

Don't you find it odd that the ZR1 never held the record for years? No major engine changes were made to the car, but then all of a sudden, a ZR1 goes out and destroys the record? And the engine that was being tested is about 8 percent stronger than the average car that comes off the lot?

Properly calibrating a suspension is not going to make up for that kind of horsepower and torque difference so easily.


The only saving grace here is if SRT has a driver who knows how to get the most out of the car and is significantly better in the car. That remains to be seen. This is a difficult problem to get out of. It can be a marketing nightmare if it goes wrong.

I can see the headline......"Even SRT race prepared Viper loses to stock, old Generation Corvette".

Sometimes the bravado has to stop and intelligence take over........

 

[v10enomous]

So we are comparing to the outgoing corvette generation anyway Things are going to heat up even more now because I'm reading that the new base < $60k corvette will only weigh 3,000lbs and actually have closer to 470hp and will run neck in neck with the C6 Z06...

 

[ACRucrazy]

Remember the hoopla the Corvette people made when the 2010 ACR smoked the record at the ring because it wasn't a current model vehicle?

 

[Bobpantax]

I say within three weeks or so, SRT will show that the Gen V is superior. I think that you are underestimating what SRT is capable of doing with the Gen V. Rest assured that the Gen V will be driven by someone who has experience driving it and that the suspension will have been checked properly. ( No alleged rear wheel toe in problem.) The most important thing is that SRT got a wake up call with regards to the meaning of the word "trust". Hopefully, from here on out, Magazine tests will be taken more seriously and controls implemented by agreement. SRT is a new Brand with a small budget and a small staff. I think that they are still on a learning curve. Street smarts is frequently harder to get than book smarts.

Yeah....it makes sense....

Put your stock car up against a juiced car track number. Bet the farm..... why not.....

The only way to do it is to actually compare your stock car with a stock ZR1, that came off the lot, with the same driver. Even when you do that, you run the risk of others saying that YOUR car was juiced and the test bogus.

Don't you find it odd that the ZR1 never held the record for years? No major engine changes were made to the car, but then all of a sudden, a ZR1 goes out and destroys the record? And the engine that was being tested is about 8 percent stronger than the average car that comes off the lot?

Properly calibrating a suspension is not going to make up for that kind of horsepower and torque difference so easily.


The only saving grace here is if SRT has a driver who knows how to get the most out of the car and is significantly better in the car. That remains to be seen. This is a difficult problem to get out of. It can be a marketing nightmare if it goes wrong.

I can see the headline......"Even SRT race prepared Viper loses to stock, old Generation Corvette".

Sometimes the bravado has to stop and intelligence take over........

 

[mnc2886]

I say within three weeks or so, SRT will show that the Gen V is superior. I think that you are underestimating what SRT is capable of doing with the Gen V. Rest assured that the Gen V will be driven by someone who has experience driving it and that the suspension will have been checked properly. ( No alleged rear wheel toe in problem.) The most important thing is that SRT got a wake up call with regards to the meaning of the word "trust". Hopefully, from here on out, Magazine tests will be taken more seriously and controls implemented by agreement. SRT is a new Brand with a small budget and a small staff. I think that they are still on a learning curve. Street smarts is frequently harder to get than book smarts.

Well said. I've been one of the critics of the Gen V, but I did keep it constructive from my point of view. I think the best thing for the Gen V is to go back to Laguna with a production car that has the aero and trak-pak packages. Not only might that redeem all the hoopla as of late, but it may help sell some aero packages.

 

[commandomatt]

Both of you have obviously not been following Ralph's Tweets and you were not at the South Florida VCA Holiday Party - were you? Stay tuned. Contrary to popular belief, SRT does not consist of a bunch of ignorant people who did not test the ZR1 against the Gen V before the tests that were done. SRT will step up to the plate again and redeem themselves. When that occurs, I hope you like the taste of crow.

You know what Bob....Ralph has said a lot of stuff but until we see real world results....its just a bunch of talk.

Never said that SRT isnt capable so dont put words in my mouth. I am certainly not thinking that this is the last we see from them. I do believe that they will come back and do something....at some point. Just saying that they better just step back, get their **** together and make sure that they can produce next time...instead of blowing a bunch of smoke.

As far as eating crow.....well, you were among those that proclaimed that 'no one' would be dissapointed with the new Generation V when finally released. Both in regards to design and performance.

Matt

 

[Bobpantax]

True. I did post that. I think the design part is mostly true. The judge is still out on the performance part. Vipers are parked for the winter in many parts of the country so threads like this give the unfortunate a way to vent a bit. I am doing my part to contribute to that process. Cheers!

You know what Bob....Ralph has said a lot of stuff but until we see real world results....its just a bunch of talk.

Never said that SRT isnt capable so dont put words in my mouth. I am certainly not thinking that this is the last we see from them. I do believe that they will come back and do something....at some point. Just saying that they better just step back, get their **** together and make sure that they can produce next time...instead of blowing a bunch of smoke.

As far as eating crow.....well, you were among those that proclaimed that 'no one' would be dissapointed with the new Generation V when finally released. Both in regards to design and performance.

Matt

 

[SnakeBitten]

You know what Bob....Ralph has said a lot of stuff but until we see real world results....its just a bunch of talk.

Never said that SRT isnt capable so dont put words in my mouth. I am certainly not thinking that this is the last we see from them. I do believe that they will come back and do something....at some point. Just saying that they better just step back, get their **** together and make sure that they can produce next time...instead of blowing a bunch of smoke.

As far as eating crow.....well, you were among those that proclaimed that 'no one' would be dissapointed with the new Generation V when finally released. Both in regards to design and performance.

Matt

Agreed. I think we have heard enough hype and talk at this point. I think its time let the Gen V do the talking and hyping with its performance on a track. Thats the best marketing SRT can do and the only way to stop the bleeding. Ralphs been around the auto industry a long time so he should have known the possible shenanigans that may have taken place with Chevy and the ZR1. You are a small, new brand in a hostile industry and you are showcasing a threat to a major player in your segment [GM]. Why did they expect fair play especially in an industry notorious for ringers.....

 

[Bobpantax]

One of the things that makes Ralph special is that he is not jaded. Let's hope this experience makes him wiser but not less fun. Keep in mind that his primary job is head of North American design for Chrysler Corp LLC. Ralph is a rarety in the industry. SRT will get it right. Ralph just has to be more like Paul Muad 'Dib and a bit less like Henry Moore when he is strategizing over marketing - including comparo tests.

 

[doctorbob]

Bob.....I just cannot resist.....do you have any dyno results from Dune vehicles? Maybe some spice to put in the tank of the Generation V?

P.S. FYI...Dune is the trilogy by Frank Herbert in 1966, won the Hugo and Nebula awards and is considered the most popular science fiction series ever.

 

[Bobpantax]

It's very hard to fit one of the worms on the dyno. Stay tuned.

Bob.....I just cannot resist.....do you have any dyne results from Dune vehicles? Maybe some spice to put in the tank of the Generation V?

 

[1BADGTS]

Usually i keep quiet but i have to address the RINGER THEORY .Having personally been involved with more mag tests than can remember unless the car is a prototype there is no such thing as a RINGER .Magazine test cars are appropriated THROUGH THE MARKETING DEPARTMENT (CHEVROLET PERFORMANCE had no clue who, where, what or when the ZR-1 WAS BEING USED FOR .The same car is often flows from one mag to the next (manys times they a EXTREMELY TIRED ) A prototype (BEFORE EMISSIONS TESTS are conducted is a different ballgame )

 

[doctorbob]

I would think Chuck would like one of those...no Nannies.(worms) and it stick driven. Plus it will not only outrace the Corvette but eat it too. Sorry..back on topic.

 

[I Bin Therbefor]

It's very hard to fit one of the worms on the dyno. Stay tuned.

It's obvious to me that you failed to use your hook to expose the sensitive parts of the worm so it wouldn't dive beneath the sand again. I suggest refresher training before you make the attempt again.

 

[TrackAire]

Usually i keep quiet but i have to address the RINGER THEORY .Having personally been involved with more mag tests than can remember unless the car is a prototype there is no such thing as a RINGER .Magazine test cars are appropriated THROUGH THE MARKETING DEPARTMENT (CHEVROLET PERFORMANCE had no clue who, where, what or when the ZR-1 WAS BEING USED FOR .The same car is often flows from one mag to the next (manys times they a EXTREMELY TIRED ) A prototype (BEFORE EMISSIONS TESTS are conducted is a different ballgame )

1BADGTS is back....now its a PARTY!!!

Welcome back, honestly it's been a little boring without your input.

Now, having said what you said and the experience you have with mags, you must tell us the other side....how many vehicles take a total crap, break, fail, go into limp mode, etc and the magazines never publish these flops? From my experience, you never get the complete honest answer. And not too many years ago, the lag time from the written article to hitting the newstand was often at least 3 months. A lot of arm twisting and advertising "persuasion" would take place before the book went to the printers.



Cheers,
George

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

A few things just don't make sense and we are expecting the new car to close the gap on a 2.7 mile track?
This is what I have gathered from all these posts.
1) The new Viper with a supposed 640 HP and approx 525 HP at the rears, 3.55 gears and tires and brakes that for the most part are already slated for the assembly line gets taken down hard by 2.0 seconds against a car that has anywhere between 505 - 512 HP at the rears and has 3.42 gears but tires and brakes that should have been on the Gen V.
2) A new Gen car with access to wind tunnel testing but shows up with one of the worst drag coefficients .38(?) even compared to an out going vette.
3) The 2 second gap if prorated on the ring would turn into a real A$$ platter handed to us as the Ring is 7.3 miles. This coupled with the superior acceleration to 150 (1 sec advantage to 150 for the vette) which can be accomplished on the Ring no problem makes for even worse of a scenario. My estimate and I have no clue as to how many places on the ring that the cars will accelerate to over 150 mph but never the less the longer track and about 5.5 seconds this makes for an absolute disaster on the ring. Not taking into consideration the 1.0 second advantage to 150 could make another 5.0 seconds extra for the vette. This totals potentially 10 seconds or more as an advantage to the Vette. Talking about a problem...SRT STAY THE HECK AWAY FROM THE RING AS YOU SERIOUSLY NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO CLOSE THIS GAP which only gets worse the longer the track is.
4) A ringer vette which is absolute BS as these specs are not even close to the new Viper. There are no ringer cars just excuses.
Yet considering all this with the better gears in the Viper as a lot of you guys have been going with 3.55's and like them, better torque in the Viper, pretty good brakes in the viper (not outstanding though). It is my feeling that after 2 separate tests that there may not be a lot left in the tank of the new Viper.
5) The Vette had a driver that was familiar with the Vette on a track but was nervous about the Viper, well yeah of course. Can anyone blame this guy? Even if SRT brought its own driver the driver still would be unfamiliar with the new gen so why is there such a big deal being made about the driver? Final point is put this Viper driver in the Vette and guess what?...He will probably still get a better time in the Vette.
6) Budget, of course there was a budget but if the SRT guys need more money since they are on a shoestring budget then ask Ferrari for a few more dollars....The budgeting excuse just doesn't fly.
7) 140K price tag for what? The premature release of a car so it can be beta tested by consumers for SRT?

Concerned, you bet I am and so should Ralph. There is no way GM has been sandbagging with their ZR1 as they really showed up and was counted. We cant depend on an ACR which may not come about to bail the SRT out of its early predicament. SRT has played all of its cards and all that is left is Jokers.

In the end this car was too pumped, too many secrets held back until it was too late. Good luck with your new SRT.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Concerned, you bet I am and so should Ralph. There is no way GM has been sandbagging with their ZR1 as they really showed up and was counted. We cant depend on an ACR which may not come about to bail the SRT out of its early predicament. SRT has played all of its cards and all that is left is Jokers.

In the end this car was too pumped, too many secrets held back until it was too late. Good luck with your new SRT.

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