Let's be real, what would it take? Only short answers please

[Bobpantax]

Well over 100. I think that Woodhouse alone may have done that many. Then you have Dan Cragin, Doug Levin, and many other capable installers. They are still being sold and installed. But this is off point and I do not want to divert Mark's thread.

How man SC units were sold for the gen3 days? >100? Anyone know? I suspect a smaller # total.

 

[05Commemorative]

wow; to even call potential buyers (most on this forum are) pretenders, you are part of the problem! I don't care who you are you sound like a ****, why don't you do us all a favor and get off the forum and go develop a blower kit. isn't that what we pay you for, mr. engineer?

I think you need to read his post again. He definitely is direct, but the points are super valid. I don't think most on the forums are buyers or in the market. if they really were, they would have been to a dealer, sat in one, convinced their dealer to let them drive it, etc. thus his request to do so, then respond with the real reason stopping you from buying. Seems like a very reasonable request. Just because he called folks out for exposed screws, fog lights, tires, lets not get upset about it.

For example, let me be the crazy forum guy for a minute as post the following:

"I am not buying the car now because it does not have fog lights, Michelin tires, and the nice interior really bothers me. Oh, one last thing, I only want one option of the car to choose from as having two makes me feel bad if I did not buy the nice one. How could I possibly brag about it if a nicer one pulled up?"

See, if you were working for SRT and really trying to solve the problem, how could you take a post like that seriously? Instead, lets assume they are watching the responses and help give them real data that will make a difference.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Mark - thanks for putting this post out there, starting the discussion, stirring the ***!

We at SRT Engineering are, of course, very interested to know what Viper owners have to say on this (and we can recognize who the owners or intenders are, vs the Pretenders...). We take to heart all of the 'legitimate' feedback we see here. Please keep it coming, thank you.

Thank you for spending time on the forums.

But guys, come on, when I see people complaining 'that there are 2 models of Viper', or claiming that they won't buy a new Viper due to 'visible wheelhouse screws', I see bull****; those are people who didn't take the question seriously. I mean, really, you didn't buy a new Viper because we offered 2 models?! Wouldn't a reasonable buyer just pick the one they liked better and get on with it?....perhaps a more honest answer for them may have been that 'I'm not in the market now and won't be soon'. That's fine (and please just pass on answering this thread at all, if that is the case, honestly).

I'll take take this one, since I did mention it in this thread. I've also mentioned it in other threads. Other forum members have mentioned it. Heck it's been mentioned several times over the last year, and I stand by my opinion, I do not like it. At all. Especially when only certain options are available on certain models. The Viper is a halo car correct? Having a "base" model IMO doesn't help. It can create confusion between buyers.

I firmly believe a GTS package/option may have been a better way to go about it. If it was such a great idea why are we now offering the SRT hood on the GTS model (yet at a $premium$) and for 2014 SRT to GTS ratio has now increased? In 2013 if someone wanted blue they had to get the GTS, if someone wanted the 6 vent SRT hood they had to get the SRT. What if I wanted a blue 2013 Viper with a 6 vent hood without the fancy stereo or leather?

We are talking $100,000+ hand built cars here. A "reasonable buyer" should be able to get what they they wan't without model restrictions. Your 2 model approach prevents that. Maybe some day a "reasonable car brand" will figure that out.

But if you are planning to buy a supercar soon, but aren't closing the deal on a Viper, take this opportunity to tell us 'why not'.

Please, be sincere. Did you really test-drive a Viper? Have you seen, or even sat in a new Viper? If so, what did you like, and what did you not like?

• I don't like the fact that I visited the dealer, they all saw me pull up in my Viper, yet I had to beg to sit in the Gen V they had that had hand written "DO NOT TOUCH" pieces of paper all over the car
• I don't like that performance wise so far, the Gen V does not seem like a huge improvement over the Gen IV. (This is not me saying I don't think the Gen V is an improvement over the Gen IV, because I do)
• I don't like dealer market adjustments (this is not an issue now like it was at the beginning of the year as the Gen V is sitting around on dealer lots)
• I don't like the pricing of options. I think they are rediculious. $5,000 for stripes for example.
• I don't like that full stripes can only be had on the GTS. What if I want them on my "base" model?
• I don't like that MOPAR is behind on any aftermarket goodies for the car that were announced a year ago now..
• Test drive?! Ha! See note 1. But SRT already knows this..
• I do like the interior, it's very nice, I miss the analog gauges however and the brief moment I spent in the car the seats felt a bit hard
• I like the looks. It's a **** car. I am waiting for something meaner.
• I like some of the colors, would like to see more, I dislike restricting certain colors to certain models (there is that pesky 2 model issue again.. Glad it's fixed for 2014)
• If I was a buyer today I would want the better brakes on the SRT model. I can't get that. For what reason?? (pesky 2 models)
• Cooled seats
• ACR
• ACR?
• ACR??

As we've well read, the Gen 5 owners on these forums REALLY like their cars. They log on here to debate "issues" here and there, but (little reminder here) they don't come to Viper forums because they hate their cars; in fact, they log on every night because they LOVE them, for reasons the intenders may too:

The Viper is a singularly passionate, and alive car, in many ways that the 'great' German cars of today are not. The car is freaking addictive to drive, so I understand the love these owners express. It is amazing to drive a 640hp rocket to work (or whereever) every day! Please forgive my brief infomercial, now I'll log off thanks for listening, and sharing your honest feedback.

I would have to say that Gen I, Gen II, Gen III & Gen IV owners REALLY like their cars too. Heck this weekend I was flipping through my mileage log and realized I put more miles on my ACR in the last 6 months than I did my "daily driver".

Sincerely,

-Someone who could be in the market and has exchanged emails with a dealership across the country Friday/Today about a Gen V. Still trying to decide if I would give up a Gen IV ACR for a Gen V.. Comments from SRT could help me with my decision.



EDIT: While I think of it, as a potential buyer the whole "BUILD YOUR OWN" should not be missing from the Viper page on drivesrt.com

 

[tattooed]

I know you asked for just one, but here are a few other things that would really help, in order of priority ...

* the exact options I want: black exterior, 6 vent SRT hood, Matte Black Sidewinder II wheels, 18 speaker system, Grand Touring package. Flexible on other options.
* good price
* 0% financing
* being able to test drive


All said, I'm leaning towards holding out for an ACR version and/or waiting to see what kind of higher performance C7 Chevy comes out with (Z06/Z07, ZR1, etc).

 

[2003 Viper]

If SRT is reading this .... I think the new Viper is BEAUTIFUL and I am so glad you brought this legend back! For me to trade in my 03 Viper you would have to bring back the convertible.

Also if SRT is reading this... THANK YOU for my 03 Viper, it has never given me problems and is a blast to drive,I have had this beauty for 8 years now.

 

[SnakeBitten]

I love the direction this thread just took. Kudos SRT

 

[heath1225]

I must be the minority here, because I stopped by a dealer after hours and not only did they unlock the showroom and take the car cover off the viper, they let me in it and they started it up. They were just happy someone was interested in it I think. LOL

 

[ohlarikd]

I agree with ACRucrazy and Tattoed that there should be one Viper and allow any combo of options. The thing is mostly handmade and in small quantities, so you should be able to order any combo you want. This is not like choosing a LX or EX Honda Accord.

Despite the talk of a 'balanced' supercar, 640 is not enough nowadays and does not fit the mold of Viper. I would say that when the Viper was announced, that is the only thing that kinda was disappointing. Spy pics were awesome, talk of the beautiful interior, the electronics... all awesome. Then the HP announcement and it was like pffffffffffffff.... all the air came out.

I should say that I understand 640 is enough on the street and on street tires, of course. But its not enough to make waves and generate excitement like the 1st/2nd Gen. Who remembers hearing 400hp back in 1992 or earlier, it was mind blowing! It was all about the engine. And looks. GenV has the looks.

 

[donk_316]

Hello. long time listener first time caller.

Im a G5 shopper so hopefully i have met SRTs requiirements to have an opinion.
This is what i said on this same post made on the alley website and I still think it rings true, even more so after SRTs post.

No one has mentioned better build quality and materials? The uneven body panel gaps all over the car?
Just because its built by hand doesnt make it fine craftmenship thats for sure. What else is wonky that i cant see besides the body gaps? The most obvious thing a person is going to see when looking at the car.
Sickly cheap plastic hood inserts?
No inovation?
Crazy price tag?
No engine update? Its the same damn engine as the gen4 but with a revised intake manifold and the cam is timed differently...

I was SOLD on the Gen5 before it was released. Then the reviews came out. Then I went to see one... But couldnt even touch it because all the dealers in town have them roped off.

Interior size. Im 6'4" 270 and fit easily in a C7, Audi R8 and a Jag XKRS (THE VEHICLES IM SHOPPING) with room to spare. The G4 and G5 i need to buy a seat lowering kit. I was in a stock G4 and nearly had to have my head sideways or it would be in the roof. In the R8 i had enough room to wave my hands above my head. Whos interiors are light years ahead of Dodge. Sidenote: the salesman at dodge made a point to tell me the power window switch is the same as the minivan... Awesome.

For the 120-140k price point, you can get into a R8V8, XKRS, DB8.

Honestly (Im not being a ********* here) but for what you get in a Viper (low-no tech everything, healthy NA V10, manual trans, RWD) I could see it being priced closer to the 80-100 mark? Geez even there im a little on the fence.

Very happy where the Gen4 market is right now. Thats where people should be putting their money.

Anyways, this has me a little worked up. I was so hyped to buy a G5.

 

[BigDawg]

More radical styling without a doubt may have led to me upping my budget. The only realistic and the most efficient way SRT can obtain this is with a widened rear. The front is fine as is. Just add 1 1/2"-2" on each side of the rear fender and have the vent flank the tail lights the same as the race car. That alone, from a design standpoint, will increase the exotic look 10 fold. It's very doable and not unreasonable. The gen V is a bad ass machine but aside from price it did not have enough to make me take the plunge. As mentioned earlier, my budget was $100k when I was car shopping. Budget doesn't mean I couldn't spend more. It means I didn't want to. The right car could have upped my budget.

 

[DMan]

How man SC units were sold for the gen3 days? >100? Anyone know? I suspect a smaller # total.

I know I've seen probably half that many myself if you include turbos. I've joked in the past that it seems if you don't have FI on the viper just park over there in the corner & leave your hood closed. LOL

 

[kratedisease]

I would cut a check for a gen 5 with 750+ HP

nothing more....the car is no longer the King of the Hill and on front page of Motor Trend WINNING performance evaluations as it did in 1996.

 

[Bobpantax]

When I responded to his question above, I forgot about all of the Gen II's with Roe superchargers on them.

I know I've seen probably half that many myself if you include turbos. I've joked in the past that it seems if you don't have FI on the viper just park over there in the corner & leave your hood closed. LOL

 

[hammerofgods]

Hello. long time listener first time caller.

Im a G5 shopper so hopefully i have met SRTs requiirements to have an opinion.
This is what i said on this same post made on the alley website and I still think it rings true, even more so after SRTs post.

No one has mentioned better build quality and materials? The uneven body panel gaps all over the car?
Just because its built by hand doesnt make it fine craftmenship thats for sure. What else is wonky that i cant see besides the body gaps? The most obvious thing a person is going to see when looking at the car.
Sickly cheap plastic hood inserts?
No inovation?
Crazy price tag?
No engine update? Its the same damn engine as the gen4 but with a revised intake manifold and the cam is timed differently...

I was SOLD on the Gen5 before it was released. Then the reviews came out. Then I went to see one... But couldnt even touch it because all the dealers in town have them roped off.

Interior size. Im 6'4" 270 and fit easily in a C7, Audi R8 and a Jag XKRS (THE VEHICLES IM SHOPPING) with room to spare. The G4 and G5 i need to buy a seat lowering kit. I was in a stock G4 and nearly had to have my head sideways or it would be in the roof. In the R8 i had enough room to wave my hands above my head. Whos interiors are light years ahead of Dodge. Sidenote: the salesman at dodge made a point to tell me the power window switch is the same as the minivan... Awesome.

For the 120-140k price point, you can get into a R8V8, XKRS, DB8.

Honestly (Im not being a ********* here) but for what you get in a Viper (low-no tech everything, healthy NA V10, manual trans, RWD) I could see it being priced closer to the 80-100 mark? Geez even there im a little on the fence.

Very happy where the Gen4 market is right now. Thats where people should be putting their money.

Anyways, this has me a little worked up. I was so hyped to buy a G5.

One of the most lucid and constructive posts on this forum (soon to be met with hostility from true Viper believers). Totally agreed on R8.

 

[myviper]

I want the Viper to be as dominant as it once was, for the Vette driver at the stoplight to be too scared to glance over at us. I agree that 700 hp needs to be met, at a reasonable price point. The Vette is now the economical supercar and best bang for the buck that the Viper once was. Even Viper's little brother, the Challenger, will be making over 600 hp with the new Hellcat engine. So I vote for 700 hp, less fancy interior, more back to basics like the Gen II. It has always been about the engine, the torque, the horsepower...that is what has made the Viper awesome since 1992.

 

[gtssnake]

The Gen5 is absolutely gorgeous inside and out. I understand the bragging rights of a 700hp car but 640hp in the street is way more than most of us can really use. OF course if you track the car I totally understand.

Just want them to sell them so they do not stop making them.

 

[Jog]

From what I can see from this thread, there are two types of Die Hard Viper Fans: The Performance Junkies and The ones more concerned with looks and styling ( such as myself ). The Viper should be a perfect blend of both worlds. Please don't misunderstand my previous posts...Fog lights would be nice but that isn't my reasoning for being disappointed with the car. I'm not happy with the Retro Throw-Back Gen II Design. The Viper hasn't been out long enough to make a Retro design. The model should be at least be 30 years old before even considering a Retro Design. Parked next to the New Vette; it just looks dated. That's my main reason for not being happy with the car.
Example:
-The New Challenger -Modeled after the 1970's Challenger = Successful Retro design
-The New Camaro -Modeled after the 1968 Camaro = Successful retro design
-The Ford Mustang -Modeled after the 1968 Mustang = Successful Retro Design
-The Benz SLS Gullwing -Modeled after the 1932 Gullwing = Successful retro design.
These are examples of successful Throw-Back Designs. The Viper is just too new a car to come out with a Retro design, I believe that SRT should've followed GM's queue on the C7 and developed a newer radical design...

With that being said; I commend Ralph and the Engineers at SRT for having the vision and the commitment to bring back Dodge's Halo Sports Car to life...We wouldn't even behaving this discussion if wasn't for SRT's commitment to breathing life back into the Viper and So I thank them for that.....

 

[ACR steve]

white ACR.....

 

[ViperSmith]

As an aside, I don't quite get the "too expensive" argument. The Viper has never been cheap.

I get the "I own a Gen IV ACR and there isn't enough to justify me spending another $20k" - but other than that, I just think the argument falls flat.

Perhaps looking at it from the prospective "Did SRT not do enough to make the Gen IV ACR owners want to jump" is valid, but then again, it is hard to pull off a ground breaking car with a $0 budget.

 

[PeerBlock]

The Viper is a singularly passionate, and alive car, in many ways that the 'great' German cars of today are not. The car is freaking addictive to drive, so I understand the love these owners express. It is amazing to drive a 640hp rocket to work (or whereever) every day! Please forgive my brief infomercial, now I'll log off

thanks for listening, and sharing your honest feedback.

You're right - now if only SRT was sharing this information with potential buyers by running ads for the Viper - and I don't mean ads for SRT's entire lineup, I mean ads specifically for the viper. I appreciate SRT's participation in racing events but that alone isn't going to translate to sales.

wow; to even call potential buyers (most on this forum are) pretenders, you are part of the problem! I don't care who you are you sound like a ****, why don't you do us all a favor and get off the forum and go develop a blower kit. isn't that what we pay you for, mr. engineer?

I'd say that most people who aren't members of the VCA are pretenders/dreamers. I didn't come to this forum before I decided to buy my Viper. Most people who know about the car either want it or don't.

And to everyone here saying that the Viper needs MORE POWER...I just want to ask, has the 640 HP that it comes with been holding anyone back in terms of winning races? Or are you all just worried about some online ******* contest about who has the highest HP figures? Really, I just want to hear from someone who pushed their viper to the limit at a race track and is hitting a ceiling specifically because of its stock power levels being "too low".

 

[VENOM V]

And to everyone here saying that the Viper needs MORE POWER...I just want to ask, has the 640 HP that it comes with been holding anyone back in terms of winning races? Or are you all just worried about some online ******* contest about who has the highest HP figures? Really, I just want to hear from someone who pushed their viper to the limit at a race track and is hitting a ceiling specifically because of its stock power levels being "too low".

Gotta agree with you here. The Viper is a beast, hard to keep the tires from roasting on the street, and it's acceleration on the track is downright explosive. Adding power is last on my list of what I'd like to see. Just look at the difference in lap times between the 505 HP Z06 Vs. the 638 HP ZR1. Not much different at all, and at some tracks the lighter Z06 will turn a faster lap. I've driven them both extensively at Spring Mountain and would take a Z06 over a ZR1. But I would take the Gen V Viper over either, it is a true driver's car. The Viper doesn't need more power. It really doesn't need much of anything at all, it truely is a masterpiece and is the king of the road course. It was not designed for drag racing especially on the street, where porky overweight AWD cars that drive themselves will win in a straight line. Boring.

The Viper is engineered for the road coarse, and that is where it shines like no other. For that, I'd add CCBs, advanced magnetic dampers, adjustable ride height, ligher weight where possible, and state of the art aero. Of course I'm talking about the ACR!

 

[donk_316]

And to everyone here saying that the Viper needs MORE POWER...I just want to ask, has the 640 HP that it comes with been holding anyone back in terms of winning races? Or are you all just worried about some online ******* contest about who has the highest HP figures? Really, I just want to hear from someone who pushed their viper to the limit at a race track and is hitting a ceiling specifically because of its stock power levels being "too low".

Agreed. I believe people use the "needs more power!" story as a blanket statement that translates to "something different than the 08-10 engine" something revolutionary or something to justify the "gen5" name besides a few tweaks here and there.

Check the classifieds on this website! 150k for a G5 Viper is about 50k too much for what you get. Fix the damn quality issues (various gaps all over the car? hello? / cheap plastic inserts? / dodge caravan power window switches?)

They should have saved the hassle on building a G5 and develop and release upgrades to the G4!!

Please stop throwing around this "hand built exotic!" around also... Whoever "hand built" and fitted the body panels should be fired or given glasses and a ruler. Go walk around a Jag dealership and check out their "hand built" quality.

I apologize if this offends anyone but as i have stated before on previous posts (here? or the alley i dont remember) i was absolutely SOLD on the G5 Viper when it was announced and pictures released. Convinced the wife it was the way to go. Then I went to see one in a dealership... Maybe you guys are used to sub par quality or american build standards I have no idea.

 

[VENOM V]

Agreed. I believe people use the "needs more power!" story as a blanket statement that translates to "something different than the 08-10 engine" something revolutionary or something to justify the "gen5" name besides a few tweaks here and there.

Check the classifieds on this website! 150k for a G5 Viper is about 50k too much for what you get. Fix the damn quality issues (various gaps all over the car? hello? / cheap plastic inserts? / dodge caravan power window switches?)

They should have saved the hassle on building a G5 and develop and release upgrades to the G4!!

Regarding quality, they had issues early on but the latest cars are exceptional. My car was one of the last 2013s built, and it is absolutely perfect. Gaps are tight and uniform, paint is flawless and show car quality. I would put the fit and finish of my Viper up against anything the italians make. Cheap plastic inserts? Not following you there. The interior is a home run in this car. The engineers use plastic for weight reduction, not to save cost.

 

[ViperSmith]

Agreed. I believe people use the "needs more power!" story as a blanket statement that translates to "something different than the 08-10 engine" something revolutionary or something to justify the "gen5" name besides a few tweaks here and there.

Check the classifieds on this website! 150k for a G5 Viper is about 50k too much for what you get. Fix the damn quality issues (various gaps all over the car? hello? / cheap plastic inserts? / dodge caravan power window switches?)

They should have saved the hassle on building a G5 and develop and release upgrades to the G4!!

Please stop throwing around this "hand built exotic!" around also... Whoever "hand built" and fitted the body panels should be fired or given glasses and a ruler. Go walk around a Jag dealership and check out their "hand built" quality.

Yet another brand new account here to tell us owners how the car is actually built.

Stop trashing marks threads with things you are making up.

Several people here bought loaded $140,000 GTS models, PeerBlock and VENOM V. So, you are barking up the wrong tree when complaining about price and quality.

Yet another magazine racer.

 

[PDCjonny]

I'd say that most people who aren't members of the VCA are pretenders/dreamers. I didn't come to this forum before I decided to buy my Viper. Most people who know about the car either want it or don't.

Simply not true. Many people here own Vipers but are not members for various reasons not the least of which is the politics. Or local club inactivity. And many people research the car here before spending the dough on one to learn the in's and out's of the various generations (including new). What better way than to research the experiences of actual owners?

 

[donk_316]

Yet another brand new account here to tell us owners how the car is actually built.
Stop trashing marks threads with things you are making up.
Several people here bought loaded $140,000 GTS models, PeerBlock and VENOM V. So, you are barking up the wrong tree when complaining about price and quality.
Yet another magazine racer.

Sorry, the 2 G5s ive gone to see (this month in show rooms) have bad gaps on the panels. cheap plastic inserts in the hood and the salesman told me "the power window switch is out of a minivan". I realize thats not earth shattering but it is still an indication of quality is it not?
What the hell is a magazine racer? Is this a forum where you need 2000 posts before people actually read what you write? I went to dodge to buy a G5. Build quality turned me away. Im leaning towards a G4 now. If i wanted to spend 140-150k on a car it wouldnt be bloody Viper!

 

[ACRucrazy]

You can buy a new Gen V for under 100k. It should be a much nicer car than a Gen IV.

 

[VENOM V]

Sorry, the 2 G5s ive gone to see (this month in show rooms) have bad gaps on the panels. cheap plastic inserts in the hood and the salesman told me "the power window switch is out of a minivan". I realize thats not earth shattering but it is still an indication of quality is it not?
What the hell is a magazine racer? Is this a forum where you need 2000 posts before people actually read what you write? I went to dodge to buy a G5. Build quality turned me away. Im leaning towards a G4 now. If i wanted to spend 140-150k on a car it wouldnt be bloody Viper!

Then why are you in the Gen V forum???

 

[ohlarikd]

Then why are you in the Gen V forum???

Why can't Gen V owners let non-Gen V owners speak up? The point of this thread seems to dictate a valid response from the new guy, Donk, as well as many other potential buyers. This is not some elitist members-only golf club. Its a message forum for the vast majority of people. Anyone who has anything bad to say is deemed a wanna be, poor, pretender, etc. This is looking like a BMW forum lately.

 

[donk_316]

Then why are you in the Gen V forum???

Because the thread is called something like "what would it take to buy a G5"....