Lets Settle This Once And For All

[black mamba1]

It seems Paxton is the way to go. I have had my lower end built to withstand approx 800 rwhp. At what point in rwhp do I need to upgrade the drive shaft components?

 

[Joseph Dell]

...At what point in rwhp do I need to upgrade the drive shaft components?

When you break 'em.

If you are like 90% of viper owners with high HP cars, you DON'T track the car so your stock rear-end stuff may last. On the other hand, if you street race every weekend and your average RPM is 5k+ in the car (or if you treat the gas pedal like an ON/OFF switch), them you might want to call Devon @ Unitrax to get some pricing on stuff...

JD

 

[Viper X]

Yep,

Call Devin, good advice. They make an upgraded CV joint set up for our SRT's half shafts. The "cage" is what breaks in the SRT half shafts. They can also build a Quaife diff for you. They did this for my car after I broke both 1/2 shafts and several diffs.

The AEM is cool if you go dark side (over 1000 hp) and not hard to learn, but not necessary with a basic Paxton kit.

Dan

 

[black mamba1]

I just got a pm from a Paxton guy w/ over 650 rwhp that says that the reason guys w/ 700-800 plus rwhp w/ Paxtons never post their times is b/c these Vipers do not produce low 1/4 mile times. His best time is low 11's. The 08 is running 10.77 at 134 mph w/ only 608 rwhp (see Hennessey post) w/ drag radials, and low 11's w/ street tires. He is a TT fan as well because of how quickly the boost comes on, leading me to believe the lag in boost build for the Paxtons might be responsible for lackluster performance? This gives the Roe debate new life.

Are there any Paxton equippd Vipers out there running sub 11's in the 1/4 on street tires?

 

[Joseph Dell]

I just got a pm from a Paxton guy w/ over 650 rwhp that says that the reason guys w/ 700-800 plus rwhp w/ Paxtons never post their times is b/c these Vipers do not produce low 1/4 mile times. His best time is low 11's. The 08 is running 10.77 at 134 mph w/ only 608 rwhp (see Hennessey post) w/ drag radials, and low 11's w/ street tires. He is a TT fan as well because of how quickly the boost comes on, leading me to believe the lag in boost build for the Paxtons might be responsible for lackluster performance? This gives the Roe debate new life.

Are there any Paxton equippd Vipers out there running sub 11's in the 1/4 on street tires?

Sounds like someone doesn't know how to drive.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

Sounds like someone doesn't know how to drive.

I agree Joseph. Whoever, told him that can't drive.

 

[black mamba1]

1.With the stock Paxton kit and stock runflats, you have to roll into the pedal at launch or you will go up in smoke. Depending on the temperature, some traction loss can sometimes occur from first to second and even from second to third. With pedal modulation and the proper shift points, the Viper with the stock Paxton is incredible. It is a matter of practice, practice, practice and making sure you heat up the tires first.

2. A stock Paxton kit properly installed and tuned is very reliable. It is also capable of being serviced by many tuners and some dealers. e.g. Woodhouse. I believe that there are relatively few tuners capable of properly servicing and maintaining a twin turbo setup - especially with an AEM controller like the Heffner setup which is widely regarded as the best TT setup. Go to his web site for more data.

3. An AEM controller, from what I understand, is a pretty complex piece that requires more than your typical tuner's skill level to program, etc. (I think that Joseph Dell knows quite a bit about the AEM and perhaps he will comment on it.)

4. From what you say about your budget, the Paxton kit appears to be what you can afford to do and, from a tried and true point of view, the Gen III stock Paxton kit is your best bang for the buck. I have had mine since I received the car and have driven Monsta a bit over 9000 miles. The only thing more I could ask for is four wheel drive so it launches like my 2008 Jeep SRT8. LQ.

Hey Bob, my wife and I will be relocating to Tamarac, FL in a few months (about 40 miles from you). Any problems w/ heat or heat soak w/ your Viper and the Paxton? Do u track your car in the Miami area? Are there good tuners in your area?

Also, I dont really have a budget for my mods. While I am not made of money I will spend what it takes to get it right the first time. I already have over $30,000 in mods in my Viper, rather I spend 10k, 20k, or 40k is not what matters. But I dont want to spend 40k and have no more performance than I could have had for 10k....been there done that. I simply want the best balance of power and performance for my investment. It seems most Viper owners are fans of the TT, but I agree w/ you that the TT is less common and more involved than the Paxton set up, therefore could be harder to maintain, especially since I drive my Viper frequently.

 

[MikeR]

Like others said, I dont think most running 11's with a Paxton can drive. I would bet that a Paxton car can run 10's. Ive read of many guys doing it, high 10's but doin it. I ran a 11.6 with 490rwhp, I will guarantee 10's on street tires when I put the Paxton on, which will give me 200 more rwhp.

Its just all in how you use the power. Im not braggin to be the best, Im no where close, but it can be done. I drove my buddies Paxton car today for first time. It was awesome, really pulled hard. With the 335/30/20 PS2's it sticks from a stand still pretty well. At the strip , you just need to get out of the hole without spinning them up, I believe you would make up most of your time after your into 2nd gear.

So after actually driving a 700 rwhp paxton, im very pleased and looking forward to installing on my own car. I think you would be very happy with paxton, especially if you dont want to blow a ton of money with a TT.

 

[black mamba1]

Like others said, I dont think most running 11's with a Paxton can drive. I would bet that a Paxton car can run 10's. Ive read of many guys doing it, high 10's but doin it. I ran a 11.6 with 490rwhp, I will guarantee 10's on street tires when I put the Paxton on, which will give me 200 more rwhp.

Its just all in how you use the power. Im not braggin to be the best, Im no where close, but it can be done. I drove my buddies Paxton car today for first time. It was awesome, really pulled hard. With the 335/30/20 PS2's it sticks from a stand still pretty well. At the strip , you just need to get out of the hole without spinning them up, I believe you would make up most of your time after your into 2nd gear.

So after actually driving a 700 rwhp paxton, im very pleased and looking forward to installing on my own car. I think you would be very happy with paxton, especially if you dont want to blow a ton of money with a TT.

I would be shocked if you can get into the 10's on street tires w/ 700+ rwhp, most times I see hover around the high 11's w/ that much rwhp even (Motor Trend) w/ the 1000 rwhp TT Hennessey set ups. But if you can get in the 10's on street tires w/ that much power that is really exciting! I think most guys start changing to BFG slicks and going to 18" wheels etc to get ultimate traction in that power range. Are you going for the maximum hp setup w/ yer Paxton?

 

[B767DRIVER]

My wife and I will be relocating to Tamarac, FL in a few months . Are there good tuners in your area?

Doug Levin is located 14 miles to the south in Davie, FL. Jason Heffener is over in Sarasota. Two of the best.

 

[MikeR]

I would be shocked if you can get into the 10's on street tires w/ 700+ rwhp, most times I see hover around the high 11's w/ that much rwhp even (Motor Trend) w/ the 1000 rwhp TT Hennessey set ups. But if you can get in the 10's on street tires w/ that much power that is really exciting! I think most guys start changing to BFG slicks and going to 18" wheels etc to get ultimate traction in that power range. Are you going for the maximum hp setup w/ yer Paxton?

I'll shoot for a conservative tune around 650-700 rwhp. ILLSMOQ's dyno's right around 700 and is very safe, only Paxton upgrades he did was the DLM tensioner and intercooler. Otheriwse, just headers and exhaust.

Again, with the PS2's its possible as with other sticky tires. The PS2 in the 20" is actually .7" bigger circumference then stock. It bites good. I'll be sure to take video footage in the spring/summer if i can get it done by then otherwise ill wait till fall when its cooler. Either way it wont be a first, its been done plenty by others.

 

[black mamba1]

Doug Levin is located 14 miles to the south in Davie, FL. Jason Heffener is over in Sarasota. Two of the best.

thanks! I will call both of them.

 

[Casey]

I've had both, TT all the way.

 

[black mamba1]

I've had both, TT all the way.

Many say this....but WHY exactly? What better performance are you achieving in the 1/4 on street tires and at the track?

 

[black mamba1]

I'll shoot for a conservative tune around 650-700 rwhp. ILLSMOQ's dyno's right around 700 and is very safe, only Paxton upgrades he did was the DLM tensioner and intercooler. Otheriwse, just headers and exhaust.

Again, with the PS2's its possible as with other sticky tires. The PS2 in the 20" is actually .7" bigger circumference then stock. It bites good. I'll be sure to take video footage in the spring/summer if i can get it done by then otherwise ill wait till fall when its cooler. Either way it wont be a first, its been done plenty by others.

Do you know if your buddy ILLSMOQ has done a 1/4 mile timed run? if so, what were his numbers?

 

[ILLSMOQ]

Do you know if your buddy ILLSMOQ has done a 1/4 mile timed run? if so, what were his numbers?

no. I've blown the transmission twice before the paxton even went on...I'm not interested in rebuilding the transmission again.

 

[black mamba1]

no. I've blown the transmission twice before the paxton even went on...I'm not interested in rebuilding the transmission again.

Time for Unitrax or some other drive train upgrade?

 

[ILLSMOQ]

Time for Unitrax or some other drive train upgrade?

05 and newer t56 is stronger, the gears are made with a different steel. Also the G-force parts are available +- $2500.00

Then we have the newest version in the 08....parts may be interchangeable or maybe swap the whole transmission.

Anyway, pulling a ten second ET is not high on the priority list for me(I'm sure it's capable of running the number)...I'm having plenty of fun smackin 'em down on the street

I told Mike he is welcome to take it to the track and try for a 10 on the PS2's....my only stipulation is that if he breaks it he has to pay for fixing it.

 

[black mamba1]

Ok, I dont want to turn this into another Roe vs Paxton vs TT debate..but I just received some graphs showing a 650+ rwhp Paxton car and how it makes its peak hp at 6000 rpm, whereas the naturally aspirated Z06 and even the new 08 will make much more average power along the curve. So his average power along the curve is like 440 rwhp, whereas even though other cars he races peaks at lower hp, their average hp (480 avg rwhp for one car) along the curve is higher. That is why his 502 rwhp n/a car is kicking his 666 rwhp Paxton car's ass.

This seems like a valid explanation why a high rwhp Paxton will lose to a lower rwhp Z06 or even a naturally aspirated Gen 3 or Gen 4 w/ headwork and exhaust mods and good tune, but still w/ 75 to 90 less rwhp....thoughts?

 

[plumcrazy]

didnt UGR kevin make a world record in a paxton powered SRT this year ?

from his sig on the other site....Home of the Fastest Supercharged Viper!! 9.20 and it was a paxton

 

[black mamba1]

didnt UGR kevin make a world record in a paxton powered SRT this year ?

from his sig on the other site....Home of the Fastest Supercharged Viper!! 9.20 and it was a paxton

Amazing! I would like to know what times guys w/ say 650-750 rwhp are running in the 1/4.

 

[Joseph Dell]

There are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many variables to make these types of generalizations. i've seen 14 sec 1/4 mile times and 10 sec 1/4 mile times in the same car, let alone blower/TT/HC setups. what is important is what YOU want to use the car for.

Why 650-700hp (as a magic #)? i can tell you that over 650-700 then you have to start to upgrade _other_ stuff... but whether it is TT or SC, you still gotta do it.

fuel system
driveline (clutch and tranny all the way back)
pistons (on 00+ Gen 2's and SRT's)
fuel system
heads

so the sky is the limit on the $$$. what are your goals? As Stephen Covey says "Begin with 'The End' in mind". so what's the end-goal here?

JD

 

[MikeR]

Ok, I dont want to turn this into another Roe vs Paxton vs TT debate..but I just received some graphs showing a 650+ rwhp Paxton car and how it makes its peak hp at 6000 rpm, whereas the naturally aspirated Z06 and even the new 08 will make much more average power along the curve. So his average power along the curve is like 440 rwhp, whereas even though other cars he races peaks at lower hp, their average hp (480 avg rwhp for one car) along the curve is higher. That is why his 502 rwhp n/a car is kicking his 666 rwhp Paxton car's ass.

This seems like a valid explanation why a high rwhp Paxton will lose to a lower rwhp Z06 or even a naturally aspirated Gen 3 or Gen 4 w/ headwork and exhaust mods and good tune, but still w/ 75 to 90 less rwhp....thoughts?

I dont know if thats a accurate assumption. Like others said so many variabls come into play. Mostly the driver. But if your going to compare , I have a 500rwhp Viper, running against my buddies Paxton Viper. From a stop, its whoever gets the better launch and then by 3rd gear he passes me. On the freeway, I drop to 2nd gear and he usually stays in 3rd because of his power. If I get a jump, it takes hime a gear to catch me. If we both start in 2nd gear and he hooks up on a 60 mph roll on, he KILLS me.
And I beat Z06 s all day long with my measly 500 rwhp. So it really comes down to who gets the jump and driver.

 

[black mamba1]

Ok,

1. My plans are to put on the ACR Aero kit incl the rear wing. I know that rear wing acts like an air brake and I will need extra power to overcome that drag at speeds higher than 100 mph.
2. I plan to race my car primarily in the 1/4 mile, and in similar situations (know what I mean?).
3. I plan to do roll on races.
4. I plan to track the car 3, maybe 4x per year on road courses. Heat soak is a concern for me. The last road course I did at Limerock, I noticed how concerned the s/c guys were w/ keeping their cars from overheating between races.

What bothers me about the 850-1000 hp cars is that it seems most of that power goes up in tire spin at speeds under 100 mph, where most driving is done, even on road courses.

Ok, so these are many and different scenerios. I am looking for the best balance for all such scenerios.

 

[black mamba1]

I dont know if thats a accurate assumption. Like others said so many variabls come into play. Mostly the driver. But if your going to compare , I have a 500rwhp Viper, running against my buddies Paxton Viper. From a stop, its whoever gets the better launch and then by 3rd gear he passes me. On the freeway, I drop to 2nd gear and he usually stays in 3rd because of his power. If I get a jump, it takes hime a gear to catch me. If we both start in 2nd gear and he hooks up on a 60 mph roll on, he KILLS me.
And I beat Z06 s all day long with my measly 500 rwhp. So it really comes down to who gets the jump and driver.

Excellent analysis. The last time I dropped into second on the freeway I fishtailed something crazy!! You got a set of huge brass ones if you are dropping into second at highway speeds! Its usually 3rd for me.

 

[MikeR]

If I drop to 2nd gear , Im at 4k rpms, I take it to 6k rpms and power shift, used to fishtail with runflats. The PS2's STICK. But I have to shift hard and precise and beat on the car to make it go. Yet with my buddies Paxton, he is beating me and granny shifting. He said he actually drives the thing easier because of all the power and still wins races.

I guess your only issue with paxton would be the heat soak at road course, otherwise I think you will be very pleased. Save the extra money and get some sweet wheels. Either get some 18's that will help you hook up, or go my route and get the 19/20 wheels for the looks. With the 20" PS2 you will definately hook up.

And lastly, really look into the wing option, maybe a photoshop. Unless you saw that green vert with wing already. I personally think a wing looks bad on a vert. Your car looks really good with the 08 type hood, would look great with wheels, dont ruin it with a bad wing. Once its on, you have holes in your trunk.

 

[black mamba1]

If I drop to 2nd gear , Im at 4k rpms, I take it to 6k rpms and power shift, used to fishtail with runflats. The PS2's STICK. But I have to shift hard and precise and beat on the car to make it go. Yet with my buddies Paxton, he is beating me and granny shifting. He said he actually drives the thing easier because of all the power and still wins races.

I guess your only issue with paxton would be the heat soak at road course, otherwise I think you will be very pleased. Save the extra money and get some sweet wheels. Either get some 18's that will help you hook up, or go my route and get the 19/20 wheels for the looks. With the 20" PS2 you will definately hook up.

And lastly, really look into the wing option, maybe a photoshop. Unless you saw that green vert with wing already. I personally think a wing looks bad on a vert. Your car looks really good with the 08 type hood, would look great with wheels, dont ruin it with a bad wing. Once its on, you have holes in your trunk.

yeah, I am not 100% sold on the rear wing, it is kinda ostentacious. There is an engine for sale in classifieds making 700 hp for the SRT's, naturally aspirated. That is what I am supposed to be closer to already, got some tuning to do. My curiousity is that the parasitic power loss at the low rpm range w/ Paxtons may actually hurt performance. If it takes 150 hp to spool the thing up, then until you are past say 3500 to 4000 rpm, you can actually have a slower car w/ the extra weight of the s/c. Throw in some heat soak, now you got a 500 rwhp car that has an extra 200 rwhp w/ a major Paxton install. 200 hp -150 hp to spool the charger, less power for heat soak, plus 100 extra pounds...I can see a car that is slower than a na car w/ 100 less rwhp.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

yeah,.................you can actually have a slower car w/ the extra weight of the s/c. Throw in some heat soak, now you got a 500 rwhp car that has an extra 200 rwhp w/ a major Paxton install. 200 hp -150 hp to spool the charger, less power for heat soak, plus 100 extra pounds...I can see a car that is slower than a na car w/ 100 less rwhp.

do your fingers ever get tired? No heat soak with the DLM intercooler. It's way fast, and I can get it to hook in 2nd....once even got it to hook in first and left Mike like he was standing still.

it makes more power across the board where do you come up with less power below 4000 rpm?

there is always someone faster. you wont be sorry with the paxton.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

Amazing! I would like to know what times guys w/ say 650-750 rwhp are running in the 1/4.

http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-srt10-coupe-discussions/607566-id-like-welcome-myself-10s.html

 

[black mamba1]

http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-srt10-coupe-discussions/607566-id-like-welcome-myself-10s.html

Hey I'll smoke U, this is really an exciting post and good info...cant see how I missed it!

I read the entire post, and it seems as if traction is the biggest problem to guys getting in the 10's w/ Paxtons as opposed to power.

But there is one very interesting post there of about why he only trapped 131 mph w/ the Paxton, when "stock" Z06's have done similar speeds, and we know that the 08 SRT w/ 546-608 rwhp is trapping at 133 mph.

Honestly, if the Roe were available I would probably take it over the Pax, and get me some really sticky tires. But I do like how the Paxton kicks in after you have already achieved grip later in the power band...but it does seem peaky. But it is still the best bang for the buck. I see u are putting one on for one of my buddies....care to take on another project? I have heard that your Paxton SRT is kicking some serious ass!