Lots of SRT's on eBay w/MSO

[Tom and Vipers]

Lots of SRT\'s on eBay w/MSO

Lots for sale as new under MSO.

I think it is great how certificate holders gave their cars to their dealers so they could put them on eBay.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Re: Lots of SRT\'s on eBay w/MSO

I think there are going to be ALOT of disappointed people that are tying to sell their SRT's right off the bat. First off, the car is a half model year old almost, whose gonna pony up $115,000+ for a half year old car? I also think people want to wait and order their own car from their dealers for 2004 and they are probably waiting on new colors as well.

I was expecting to see SRT's blast through the 100K barrier on Ebay, most I've seen struggle to hit mid 90's. Is all that trouble after paying capital gains taxes really worth 10K to the people who can afford these cars? Me thinks not.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Re: Lots of SRT\'s on eBay w/MSO

Oh, I wouldn't be too sure about that. First, you have this seller who has not one, but TWO SRT-10's for sale, as well as several pricey ATV's - all ending within a day of each other. Interesting, as they have never sold a thing on eBay before and have bought low-ticket items to get their meager feedback rating:

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=clay_wendy

And then we have this guy. Registered on eBay the day he listed this car. No feedback or history. Car is on "Manufacturers Certificate of Origon" (sic). Says it is in his garage, but not a single picture. Details? "All standard Viper features." There you go. Wants $10,000 within 48 hours via wire transfer, as does the first seller with two Vipers. At least this one shows a VIN, curious to see what it brings up:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1876850733&category=6209

This one doesn't mention any MSO, but is again a brand-new seller with no feedback that wants $10,000 wired within 48 hours:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2400333536&category=6209

This one seems to be the most legit of the first bunch. Has a VON# posted, and sets a realistic time for delivery. Not much history with eBay (12 feedbacks for what appear to be low-ticket items), but been on for 3+ years:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2400475579&category=6209

Then we have a dealership that is "selling this vehicle on behalf of the original person that ordered it" and the auction appears to be 100% legit:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1876867764&category=6209

Probably a broker, and seems to be able to deliver (note that they apparently sold a Final Edition GTS for $63,000 recently). Only 5 for feedback rating. Also says, "ALSO AVAILABLE FOR IMMEDIATE DELIVERY OTHER NEW SRT10'S IN RED, BLACK AND SILVER." Currently selling TWO Vipers with no mention of MSO or any taxes. Reserve not yet met at $87,403 and $87,600 respectively:

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=randy678&rd=1

Looks to be getting sold by certificate holder while still at dealership, and on the MSO. Interestingly enough, an auto broker/dealer is the current high bidder at $85,099:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2400340178&category=6209

This one has very little feedback - 3, including one buy and one sell (listed as private, which means it *may* be adult-oriented and probably not a car). Has a "canned" picture of a silver SRT, as this one is "DUE IN JAN 17TH 2003". Even better, it shows 15 miles (how can they know that if it hasn't been delivered?) and has "ALL THE OPTIONS.," (sic). Interesting, as there ARE no options on the SRT. Also wants $5,000 within 24 hours:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1876839383&category=6209

This one has little feedback (one negative and only recent sale was a pair of college football tickets). Shows DC web site picture of black SRT. Says it has 26 miles, yet is "set to be built now" and is a "PRE-SPEC VEHICLE MADE AVAILABLE TO CURRENT VIPER OWNERS". Bid is for "AMOUNT OVER FACTORY WINDOW STICKER OF $83795.00" Currently at $20.100 ($103,895 total). Oh yeah, and wants payment in full within three days. No mention of MSO:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1876733308&category=6209

And that's all folks! Nothing against ANY of these people, as they could all be 100% bonafide. Nevertheless, if I were a buyer I think there are maybe two or three on here I would be comfortable bidding. Remember that scam artists come out of the woodwork on these types of things, and I would be surprised if at least one of these wasn't a complete "hit and run" job. While there is a little concern about MSO, most don't even mention it. I suspect the certificate holder selling with his dealer could have a little problem, as the dealership (I think) is REQUIRED to send in the completed paperwork to Dodge with the certificate holder's name upon delivery, even if they did not accept the car. Only a couple of these appear to be actual Dodge dealerships - the rest are a hodgepodge of private sellers, brokers, and the unknown.

Could be very interesting!

Chris

 

[Mike Brunton]

Re: Lots of SRT\'s on eBay w/MSO

Chris,

Wouldn't be too sure about what? About the people selling their cars on eBay?

Well, think about it - DC asked these folks not to sell the car. I bet a lot of them are names we know around here on the board. That means they don't want to be known and the easiest way is to setup a new eBay ID for that.

It's pretty easy to avoid being scammed on eBay. If you're a dope, you might get taken, but not a lot of feedback just means you don't sell much. I think I've sold two things ever on eBay. So if I listed my SRT there, it would be on an account with almost no feedback. And people would say my listing was a likely scam?

How does having not much feedback equate to a fraudulent sale? All you gotta do is put the money in escrow with someone you trust - end of problem.

It's pretty sad how many of these cars are hitting eBay. So much for the whole "give it to the dealer and they might not complain and then DC will do another cert program later on". Yeah right.

 

[Tom and Vipers]

Re: Lots of SRT\'s on eBay w/MSO

There appears to be a segment of the car buying public that buys new cars for 1 year of less.

I think they score big deals on the new purchase and then flip the car for something else.

It's amazing how many Zo6 Corvettes are for sale! I've seen more VIpers on the road than Zo6's and yet the Zo6s drawf Vipers on eBay.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Re: Lots of SRT\'s on eBay w/MSO

Mike -

My intent wasn't so much as to diss the people with low feedback, but simply point out that I can't imagine all of these are legit (and there are all of eleven out there at this writing). If you were going to sell your car, wouldn't you at least try to put in a picture instead of a default pencil drawing of a Plymouth Acclaim? And why make up miles on a car you don't even have? Many of these specify a wire transfer within 48 hours and one even lists his account number. No escrow, no nothing. Oh, and even escrow can be a problem:

http://www.auctionbytes.com/pages/abn/y02/m10/i26/s02

http://www.msnbc.com/news/773280.asp?0cb=-51a110957

I am not saying a single one of these is a scam, although I would be almost shocked if at least one wasn't questionable. Only about half mention an MSO, which was the orginal point of the post. I guess I am just skeptical. I have been buying and selling on eBay for almost seven years now and seen a lot of strange stuff. We know how there have been other scams run on Viper owners, and now is as good a time as any to run others. eBay gets 'em by the boatloads:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/784132.asp?0cb=-31a110957

This article says, in part, "The scams are easy to spot — such as a brand-new seller suddenly posting dozens of laptop computers for sale, insisting on wire transfer payment." (see the first seller I posted about. No accusations, just a "hmmmm")

I personally think that if a person, such as you or me, were going to sell his/her SRT, they would offer at least one picture, legitimate estimate of miles, and a more detailed description than "has all options" when there are none available. After all, the seller should be either a Viper owner, dealer, or maybe an auto broker. The complete lack of any information at all would lead me to believe that some could be scams. I agree with you that every one of these people could be 100% legit and that low feedback means absolutely nothing. Nonetheless, I think that there are very few legit "MSO" SRT auctions being run right now.

Chris

 

[Mike Brunton]

Re: Lots of SRT\'s on eBay w/MSO

I disagree - I think there are very very few fraudulent SRT auctions being held right now. Although eBay frequently gets raked over the coals about this, they DO try to catch this sort of stuff before it happens.

Yes, there are escrow sites that are fake, but I said the buyer should pick one. Unless the buyer is a dope, he's not going to wire $10k to some unknown account. And I don't feel all that bad for someone who is ***** enough to do that.

I think the problem with SRT auctions on eBay being lacking in info is because

1) The people auctioning the car don't want to have people know their identity - hence creating new accounts

2) Many of the people selling don't own the cars - they are dealers or brokers or individuals who have an inside track to getting one of the cars.

3) Most people don't HAVE the cars yet, and they are brand new - so what point is there to talk about mileage? And any interested buyer knows what an SRT looks like - if you're selling a USED car people wanna see it, but on a new car that has no options and 3 color choices, I don't think I'd bust my a$$ to get pics either

If you're going to scam someone on eBay, better to list a 360 spyder for sale, I'd think. Maybe it's just me though. No matter what anyone says, there are a LOT of SRT's on eBay. It's not just a surge in fraud either - there are genuinely a shatload of SRT's for sale. Considering they don't seem to be going for too much over MSRP, it makes me think that the reception is lukewarm, and it's not the lure of huge profits that has people selling either.

Just my .02

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Re: Lots of SRT\'s on eBay w/MSO

"shatload"

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Re: Lots of SRT\'s on eBay w/MSO

Well, right now there are eleven 2003 (out of 57 total) Vipers on eBay. Not a ton, and only a handful mention MSO. If I were to sell mine (and I am not), I wouldn't hesitate to post it under my regular eBay ID with all the information I possibly could, including contact information, etc. Of course, that is selling it as a SECOND OWNER car, as I would be on the MSO. Also note that there is absolutely no crime, penalty, or shame if I were to do that. There is not a single thing in any of this certificate program that prevents you from selling your titled car ten seconds after you take delivery. On the other hand, if I was trying to sell in "in cahoots" with my dealer under MSO, yep, I would probably be a bit more clandestine with my fingers crossed that DC didn't nail the dealer (and I still think that is possible).

Regardless, I still would add SOME information to the listing. Even if the prospective buyers know exactly what it is, would you want to buy any car with this little information? And as far as mileage, why make it up? Just list it as "0" (as one enterprising gentleman here did as he was roasted on the stake) and at least make it seem more logical. 26 miles on a car that hasn't even been built yet??

As this is posted with the auction links, it will be interesting to see what these auctions look like in a few weeks. I would place odds that at least one of them will come up as "invalid item" and/or the seller "not a registered user". That is not to say it will be a bunch, but I will bet there is at least one. I also think that it does scare off some folks from bidding other than brokers/dealers that know exactly what they are doing and how to avoid a scam. While the prices seem "low" for a much-hyped new car, many of these bidders are brokers/dealers themselves who know they can make more money on them. I know of one broker that offered to buy any SRT at MSRP - and that was two days ago. They wouldn't do that if they weren't planning to make a few bucks.

Again, the point was that there aren't that many MSO cars on there flaunting the certificate process. I don't care if people are selling them for a loss, if every single seller is a convicted con artist, or if they are all related to Mother Teresa. I believe DC is tracking the MSO's (and there aren't THAT many of them) and where they end up. I could be totally full of poo poo (and probably am), but I don't think there as many people flaunting the system as you might think.

Just my 2¢, and you overpaid at that.

Chris

 

[Tom and Vipers]

Re: Lots of SRT\'s on eBay w/MSO

I don't think there would be any way a dealer could get in trouble if a cert holder did a side deal to flip the car under MSO with the dealer.

Every dealer has a waiting list for these cars.

The instant someone turns it over, phone calls will be made.

It is reasonable to expect that people on that list will act immediately meaning same or next day.

So the only way a dealer could get in trouble would be if he was under surveillance because who is to say the buyer was not on the waiting list?

Or perhaps investigate the cert holder/buyer relationship?

I don't think so.

All you need a dealer who will stick to a verbal promise to do as discussed once the cert holder turns in his car.

Of course at this point, with nothing on paper, the dealer could laugh and say "It's mine! Naaa Naaa Na Naaa Naaa"

 

[Tom and Vipers]

Re: Lots of SRT\'s on eBay w/MSO

Good point!

 

[SRTRICK]

Re: Lots of SRT\'s on eBay w/MSO

Actually, most of the auctions that have closed have had a reserve price on them that was not met. If you were just trying to scam someone out of some deposit money, it would be easiest to set the reserve price low enough to be sure it would be met. Unless of course you planned on contacting all the bidders with second chance offers and taking deposits from as many as possible. Oh well, you never know.

It is possible that many of the sellers just figured that if the car were to sell for over $100k they could not afford not to sell it, but if its not that high they would just love to enjoy it themselves. That just might be the case for those buyers who have to struggle a bit to buy the car.