Michelins new Pilor Super Sport

[Luke@tirerack]

North America release of the new Michelin Pilot Super Sport line is May 1, 2011. We are trying to get Michelin to move the date up to April 1st though.

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The Pilot Super Sport is Michelin's Max Performance Summer tire initially introduced as Original Equipment on several of the world's most sophisticated performance vehicles, including the exclusive limited edition Ferrari 599 GTO, Ferrari's fastest road car ever. Developed for drivers who care about how tire technology enhances their vehicle's performance and safety, Pilot Super Sport tires expand the Max Performance Summer tire performance envelope by delivering durability, handling and traction while increasing tread life.

Building on the development of racing tires designed to carry Prototype and GT class cars to endurance race victories at the 24 Hours of Le Mans, 12 Hours of Sebring and Road Atlanta's Petit Lemans, Pilot Super Sport tires are designed to deliver consistent performance and longevity by blending Max Performance driving characteristics with extended tread wear.

While the importance of tire treadwear in endurance racing may not be immediately apparent, Michelin tires set records during the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 2010. One of the 2010 LMP Class leaders completed 46 consecutive laps on one set of tires with an average pace just 1% off of the pole position qualifying time. That’s almost 400 racing miles on one set of tires at an average speed of 150 mph.

Additionally the overall winner used just 11 sets of tires to cover a record 3,362 miles, averaging nearly 140 mph and almost 300 racing miles per set of tires. That represented almost a 25% wear improvement compared to just one year earlier where the overall winner needed 14 sets of tires to cover 3,235 miles. By developing longer wearing racing tires without sacrificing performance, Michelin tires allowed the teams to run record race paces while converting some of the time previously spent changing tires in the pits into productive time covering more miles on the track.

While Pilot Super Sport tires are designed to allow sports cars, sporty coupes, performance sedans and supercars to achieve their full potential in dry and wet conditions, like all summer tires they are not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.

The Pilot Super Sport features multiple innovative rubber compounds molded side-by-side into an asymmetric tread design. The low-void outboard shoulder features a track-type compound to withstand the stresses of high performance cornering while the notched center ribs and inboard shoulder feature a compound designed for superior performance at very high speeds and in wet conditions.

The tire's internal structure features twin steel belts reinforced by spirally wound Twaron cord. Twaron is a polyamide cord that offers a lightweight, high-strength reinforcement above the steel belts to enhance high-speed handling, wear and durability. Michelin FAZ Technology (Filament At Zero degrees) winds the Twaron cord around the tire circumference much the same way fishing line is wound onto fishing reels to allow Michelin engineers to tune tension and strength. The Pilot Super Sport features a polyester carcass to promote a comfortable ride and responsive handling.

Pilot Super Sport tires are comparatively light, with weight savings of up to 10% compared to other tires of similar dimensions. This reduces unsprung weight to improve handling.




Pilot Sport PS3 availability will be focused on sizes used as Original Equipment in the U.S.

We will gradually see availability of the Pilot Sport PS2 size offerings diminish after the Pilot Super Sport line arrives.

 

[CitySnake]

Luke,

Can you specifically address the differences (improvements) between the PS2 and PSS's? Both in terms of traction and wear.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Luke,

Really interesting news, and wondering if there have been changes in the launching of the sizes applicable for the Viper. Sorry if that was your intention with this post, but it did appear previously that the 18's and 19s for the Gen IIIs and Gen IVs would not be in the initial run.

Better performance and better wear -- can't ask for much more than that.

Bill Pemberton
Woodhouse

 

[Luke@tirerack]

the differences are many .. .everything from the rubber compound, internal belt package and even the manufacturing processes used ...

better performance and better wear what's not to like

 

[VENOMIS]

You still did not say if the sizes were going to be available for our cars in the first run?

 

[GONABITE]

What is the treadwear number on this tire?

 

[GONABITE]

What is the treadwear number on this tire?

I found it. Its 300.... Well so much for a sticky tire for straight line accelleration for many of our cars in excess of 600 RWHP. Guess its Kumho or Pilot sport cups

 

[Luke@tirerack]

tread wear UTQG numbers are no longer and accurate indicator for amount of traction and haven't been for quite some time. If that was the case the Pirelli P Zero Asymmetrico with the 140 would have more grip than the Ecsta XS with a 180 and it is no even close in terms of shear traction.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

....... and the answer is the date for Snake shoes is May 1, but they are trying to get them launched in April . Ole Luke was just addressing us Serpent owners --- thanks Mr. Pavlik!!

 

[GONABITE]

tread wear UTQG numbers are no longer and accurate indicator for amount of traction and haven't been for quite some time. If that was the case the Pirelli P Zero Asymmetrico with the 140 would have more grip than the Ecsta XS with a 180 and it is no even close in terms of shear traction.

If you could explain that to us or at least me i would appreciate it. I mean every drag radial has a treadwear of 50 or lower and they are sticky. My PS2s have a treadwear of 220 and dont stick nearly half as well. My nittos arent even rated so 0 and they stick like glue. There has to be some relation to traction and treadwear ratings.

 

[Bird325]

Sounds like a good combination of handling and drivability. When will the 18" tires be produced and what is the approximate cost as compared to the PS2 tires?

 

[JAY]

You have a pm GONABITE .

 

[Matt M PA]

I'm no tire expert, but my understanding was that tread wear numbers were merely estimates as each tire company determines their figures. Not all companies use the same criteria...nor do they have to.

I was under the impression that a given tire is "operated" in a simulated environment for a number of miles. Then the tread wear is observed. An equation is made that determines the tread wear number. So, one tire makers ratings may not equally correspond to another's.

 

[plumcrazy]

if they stick better than the PS2's (which i love) i will be buying a set in the spring

 

[GONABITE]

if they stick better than the PS2's (which i love) i will be buying a set in the spring

Plumcrazy, you lay plenty of power to the ground. How well do the PS2's hook under straight line acceleration? I had NITTO drag radials and with my power I could take offf from a 5 or 10 mph roll on and get very little spin and even when the turbos spooled up those tires just hooked. They just are not good for cornering. Considering Kumhos for an all round tire for a new set of wheels I have coming.

 

[plumcrazy]

I dont do much of that type of racing. for me its mostly from 40,60,80

i CAN spin them at 60 in the heat of summer but have learned how to control it pretty good. i love the PS2, overall its gotta be close to a perfect tire. but like you, i can always use more grip.

i kinda prefer to regulate it with my right foot, if its too sticky of a tire, things could break.

 

[GONABITE]

I hear you on breaking things!! I toasted the stock LSD so just sent it out to get an OS Giken installed now and back to the 307s and have the CV shafts beefed up as well.

Yes same hear with the roll ons breaking loose at anywhere from 60 to 80. I guess I dont like to regulate my foot so much. HAHA Thanks for you input.

 

[Luke@tirerack]

If you could explain that to us or at least me i would appreciate it. I mean every drag radial has a treadwear of 50 or lower and they are sticky. My PS2s have a treadwear of 220 and dont stick nearly half as well. My nittos arent even rated so 0 and they stick like glue. There has to be some relation to traction and treadwear ratings.

UTQG Treadwear Grades are based on actual road use in which the test tire is run in a vehicle convoy along with standardized Course Monitoring Tires. The vehicle repeatedly runs a prescribed 400-mile test loop in West Texas for a total of 7,200 miles. The vehicle can have its alignment set, air pressure checked and tires rotated every 800 miles. The test tire's and the Monitoring Tire's wear are measured during and at the conclusion of the test. The tire manufacturers then assign a Treadwear Grade based on the observed wear rates. The Course Monitoring Tire is assigned a grade and the test tire receives a grade indicating its relative treadwear. A grade of 100 would indicate that the tire tread would last as long as the test tire, 200 would indicate the tread would last twice as long, 300 would indicate three times as long, etc.


The problem with UTQG Treadwear Grades is that they are open to some interpretation on the part of the tire manufacturer because they are assigned after the tire has only experienced a little treadwear as it runs the 7,200 miles. This means that the tire manufacturers need to extrapolate their raw wear data when they are assigning Treadwear Grades, and that their grades can to some extent reflect how conservative or optimistic their marketing department is. Typically, comparing the Treadwear Grades of tire lines within a single brand is somewhat helpful, while attempting to compare the grades between different brands is not as helpful.

race tires and street tires are completely different animals but, you will be surprised how much grip the Super Sport has ... it really make the line between race and street tires blurry.

 

[Yellow32]

Hello Luke,

Thanks for keeping us up to date.

Question on the new Super Sports, has anything been done to increase time to wear on the tire shoulders? That is the #1 one reason I have to to retire my Sport Cups, the rubber flays off the shoulder (edge of tire where the tread becomes sidewall) and the cords are exposed.

When using Sport Cups and regular PS2s (non-ZP) I get maybe 20 sessions (30 min each) before the cords start to show.

With ZP tires I went all the way to 28-30 sessions and still no cord (but the treads where getting mighty thin).

Thanks for any insight there.

 

[Dom426h]

+1 Luke,
Treadwear Grades are just that, A Grade of the treadwear.

Yes there is a relation between this and grip/stickyness as typicaly the softer/stickyer a tire is the less it lasts. However, Diff brands have diff technology in their rubber compounds. Two manufactures can make a tire with a treadwear rating of 200 meaning they last about the same but one of the manufactures could have a more advanced rubber composition giving it more grip than the other manufacture.

I personally like to think of tires in the same treadwear range to all be in a similar league when talking about grip meaning; Any tire in the 200 range is going to perform better than any allseason tire in the 400 range. However, within each range there can be a variation in performance.

 

[Dom426h]

Yellow32,

"20 sessions (30 min each) before the cords start to show"

That sounds like about 6 trackdays to me. Seams reasonable
What %/% is your acr used for on street/track???
If your mostly track use than i suggest putting some more camber in her. That would help to give your tires a bigger contact patch around turns giving you more overall grip & distributing the tirewear more evenly.
Do you know your alignment specs?
How much tread is left on the inside when you begin to cord on the outside?

 

[Yellow32]

Yellow32,

"20 sessions (30 min each) before the cords start to show"

That sounds like about 6 trackdays to me. Seams reasonable
What %/% is your acr used for on street/track???
If your mostly track use than i suggest putting some more camber in her. That would help to give your tires a bigger contact patch around turns giving you more overall grip & distributing the tirewear more evenly.
Do you know your alignment specs?
How much tread is left on the inside when you begin to cord on the outside?

Hey Dom426h,

4 sessions per day=5 days, it is "reasonable" on Sport Cups no doubt, but I am hoping the Super Sports will have a beefier "shoulder" that can last a little longer.

Car is not driven much other than the track, "street" wear is probably very little as I am not aggressive at all on the street.

The "inside" edge is never worn out, even if I put more camber in it I would start wearing the insides quicker and the result will likely be about the same except it is way harder (takes more time) to check for "cords" on the inside edge.

As for alignment, at this moment the car is 'stock' as the factory produced it (I have 5 weekends on the car and I am continuing to explore the car before I do any align changes, the car is outstanding as is, but I want to get to a peak before I dial in changes so I have a baseline)

 

[Dom426h]

ok. Trackcar nice

bottom line. If your wearing significantly more on the outside edge (which will happen to nearly any car with a stock alignment being raced on a track) then you need to align with more camber. Period

Check out this thread:
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-srt10-coupe-discussions/624201-acr-alignment.html

 

[ROCKET62]

Luke,

Thanks for the update. Can you confirm the sizes as when I last checked, they did not show stock Viper Sizes.

 

[Luke@tirerack]

the easiest to increase tread life in the shoulder add more negative camber

 

[pteam]

Are the PS3's / PSS 's out? I dont see them on tirerack when searching for my viper's tires nor do I see any threads of people talking about them. These are the next generations and based on the remarks that they have bettter traction and better wear I dont see why everybody wouldnt want these!

I dont see the PS3's / PSS's on tirerack.com when searching for viper tires for any year from 2005-2009...

I do see them for my lamborghini and the PSS's are actually like $200 cheaper than the PS2's AND it says the PS2's are at closeout pricing! The PSS's are better than the PS2's and are cheaper? That would be sweet!

 

[costanZo]

Luke, as others have stated what are the sizes???

My current PS2s are:
Michelin Pilot Sport 2, 295/30/ZR19 Front
Michelin Pilot Sport 2, 335/30/ZR20 Rear

Would they be the same sizes as these? I got my car lowered on KW2s and had the height all set up perfectly. Was wondering if they would be the same, so I could just swap them in without no extra work in adjusting the coilovers..

Thanks,
Anthony

 

[AbsolutHank]

I think the rears are 345/30R20...probably the GenV Viper tire size

Pilot Super Sport | Michelin Tires

 

[costanZo]

I think the rears are 345/30R20...probably the GenV Viper tire size

Pilot Super Sport | Michelin Tires

Really? That's actually perfect since I always wanted 345s over 335s, just could never get them being the 30 sidewall on a 20" wheel.

**I'm sorry if this was already posted, but I don't have time to scroll up and read everything....when are these for sale or are they already? And for how much per tire?

 

[AbsolutHank]

Read JonB's thread here...some already shipped: http://forums.viperclub.org/new-pro...ilot-super-sports-pss-shipped-19-20-only.html

It looks like $1895 for a set of 19/20