Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
What the **** happened? C'mon Jon, we need your wit here.
Moderation is best when taken in moderation
- Thread starter Chuck 98 RT/10
- Start date
- Status
CAP
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JMcGuire:
.
I'm outta here. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No way!!!!
I understand the frustration. But, as they say, ya gotta fight it within the system.
Again, NO WAY!!
Common guy.
.
I'm outta here. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No way!!!!
I understand the frustration. But, as they say, ya gotta fight it within the system.
Again, NO WAY!!
Common guy.
Craig 201 MPH
Enthusiast
You will lurk and you will come back. it's a disease. i tried leaving awhile ago, I just couldn't. Glad I didn't though.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Craig A. Petersen:
Common guy.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
C'mon Craig, did you go to MSU like FFF???
Common guy.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
C'mon Craig, did you go to MSU like FFF???
Birvini
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck 98 RT/10:
What the **** happened? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
??????
What the **** happened? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
??????
CAP
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck 98 RT/10:
C'mon Craig, did you go to MSU like FFF???
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Common Chuck, ya think I'm stoopid.
C'mon Craig, did you go to MSU like FFF???
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Common Chuck, ya think I'm stoopid.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
I can't imagine Jon writing anything questionable. Certainly not multiple questionable post. Not that my input counts for anything but I hope the mods will ***** whatever was written and swallow the appropriate amount of pride if need be.
CAP
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ViperJim:
What does fight it within the system mean?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Man, I'm chasing this thread all over the place.
It means: Don't give up talking about the issues here. Don't bail out because things are f'd up. Deal with compromise, negotiation, empathy....etc. Who's stonger here? Who's values will prevail? The posts will define the values of this forum. Tell me that the pressure exerted by the posters is of no value.
"Within the system!!"
What does fight it within the system mean?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Man, I'm chasing this thread all over the place.
It means: Don't give up talking about the issues here. Don't bail out because things are f'd up. Deal with compromise, negotiation, empathy....etc. Who's stonger here? Who's values will prevail? The posts will define the values of this forum. Tell me that the pressure exerted by the posters is of no value.
"Within the system!!"
Jay Herbert
Enthusiast
PG is the general guideline that the VCA Board of Directors voted to follow, this was approved unanimously by the VCA DAL's, Zone Directors and Board of Directors.
The proper way to suggest a change to the policy is to contact your regional president, DAL, and Zone Director with specific suggestions and comments. An individual is also encouraged to contact the VCA National officers (listed at the bottom of the Regions Page ) or myself.
For the most part, the mods are pretty lenient, particularly in the off topic area (although some may not think so). Biggest issues are personal assualts (including threatening physical harm to a person or their family), profanity, and gross or otherwise inappropriate discussions for a PG audience.
This is at the top of the page, every time an individual posts.
Posting Policy:
The following types of messages are UNACCEPTABLE:
Profane, gross, ****** (language and images). Inflammatory statements, Inappropriate posts - Examples: Inaccurate or incorrect information, Non-viper by non-members, Commercial non-viper announcements, Test posts or posting mistakes, "Cry-baby" posts, Forgery, impersonation or invalid return e-mail. Anything retracted by poster, Personal assaults or name calling, Posts of no interest to members of the Viper community, Ads (Site includes free classifieds for members) No return E-mail (this is post dependent and at moderator discretion). ANY complaint regarding a tuner/vendor, or their products, will be removed if it is found that no effort has been made to solve the problem directly with said tuner/vendor prior to posting.
If any person, (or computer equipment or address assigned to them,) can be determined, by the best information available to message board administrators, to be responsible for fraudulent, non-factual, confrontational, or posts contrary to stated message board policy, the person or business involved may be banned from board participation or advertising for a period of time deemed appropriate by board administrators, in their complete discretion.
The proper way to suggest a change to the policy is to contact your regional president, DAL, and Zone Director with specific suggestions and comments. An individual is also encouraged to contact the VCA National officers (listed at the bottom of the Regions Page ) or myself.
For the most part, the mods are pretty lenient, particularly in the off topic area (although some may not think so). Biggest issues are personal assualts (including threatening physical harm to a person or their family), profanity, and gross or otherwise inappropriate discussions for a PG audience.
This is at the top of the page, every time an individual posts.
Posting Policy:
The following types of messages are UNACCEPTABLE:
Profane, gross, ****** (language and images). Inflammatory statements, Inappropriate posts - Examples: Inaccurate or incorrect information, Non-viper by non-members, Commercial non-viper announcements, Test posts or posting mistakes, "Cry-baby" posts, Forgery, impersonation or invalid return e-mail. Anything retracted by poster, Personal assaults or name calling, Posts of no interest to members of the Viper community, Ads (Site includes free classifieds for members) No return E-mail (this is post dependent and at moderator discretion). ANY complaint regarding a tuner/vendor, or their products, will be removed if it is found that no effort has been made to solve the problem directly with said tuner/vendor prior to posting.
If any person, (or computer equipment or address assigned to them,) can be determined, by the best information available to message board administrators, to be responsible for fraudulent, non-factual, confrontational, or posts contrary to stated message board policy, the person or business involved may be banned from board participation or advertising for a period of time deemed appropriate by board administrators, in their complete discretion.
CAP
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ViperJim:
Who is it that reads these threads, makes value decisions, and deletes the ones they do not like????????
That person needs to come to the front, post here and explain the whole situation.
Anything less is inadequate.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hear, hear.
Who is it that reads these threads, makes value decisions, and deletes the ones they do not like????????
That person needs to come to the front, post here and explain the whole situation.
Anything less is inadequate.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hear, hear.
Craig 201 MPH
Enthusiast
I think it's hilarious how we need to keep this place PG. Why? who are we going to offend going to MA-17 the odd time? You guys need to give your heads a shake if kids aged 13 and younger are coming to a viper message board to find out where babies come from. We are all alot older here and can handle it. I don't think the VCA messageboard has any effect on how a 13 year old kid views DC corp. paaalease.
SmokinV10
Enthusiast
I am going to respond to this thread with my upmost respect and seriousness. I have found the upmost respect for JMcGuire from the actions he has taken here today. Like him, I believe that many of the members of this board are far too serious. I am dumbfounded by the inability of many here to find a smile in basic humor. Whether the humor comes from name calling, playful prodding, or some traditional "good ol' smack". When I took actions to make this known to the board weeks ago. Many thought my "crusade" was too extreme. I use this board for entertainment purposes and as an OCCASIONAL tool for getting information. By in large it is a collection of members with similar insterests and who can have a good time. However, the random unexplained censorship that has occured here has only hurt this board severely. Let me make it CLEAR that I BELIEVE that the moderators we know of (Tony Rickard, Michael Pierce, Chris Marshall) do a responsible job of moderating this board with fairness. However there are others that have political and minor monetary gains by enforcing this seemingly unreasonable form of sensorship.
I believe that I am known on this board for my somewhat "out there, extremist posts". Some find the style of my "acidic brutal blunt responses funny". These are the guys that have a sense of humor. They can take name calling amongst frineds and "dish it back". I take many of the ideas and activities that occur on this board from an entertainment only perspective. However the humorless, overly serious attitudes here have taken much of the fun out of this board. I am surprised that many of the successful individuals have come so far in their carreers with such a minimal ability to have fun interactions with others.
Imagine if all the "fun guys", the ones who dish out the smack, the laughs...the ones who stirred it up in the snake pit all followed JMcguire. What would be left? No more laughs. I HONESTLY believe the snake pit would become a "ghost town". Hopefully the hidden mods will take a long look at the actions they have taken and re-evaluate the way they treat posts and fun on this site. We are all here to have fun. Its only business and politics for them. If they let their "alterior motives" continue to cloud their judgement. We will all watch this site fail.
I believe that I am known on this board for my somewhat "out there, extremist posts". Some find the style of my "acidic brutal blunt responses funny". These are the guys that have a sense of humor. They can take name calling amongst frineds and "dish it back". I take many of the ideas and activities that occur on this board from an entertainment only perspective. However the humorless, overly serious attitudes here have taken much of the fun out of this board. I am surprised that many of the successful individuals have come so far in their carreers with such a minimal ability to have fun interactions with others.
Imagine if all the "fun guys", the ones who dish out the smack, the laughs...the ones who stirred it up in the snake pit all followed JMcguire. What would be left? No more laughs. I HONESTLY believe the snake pit would become a "ghost town". Hopefully the hidden mods will take a long look at the actions they have taken and re-evaluate the way they treat posts and fun on this site. We are all here to have fun. Its only business and politics for them. If they let their "alterior motives" continue to cloud their judgement. We will all watch this site fail.
Birvini
Enthusiast
To everyone who is actually "visiting" the Board Site Questions, I'm glad you are posting or even looking for that matter. I'm assuming that the reason you are posting or looking to this forum is because of McGuires thread on Snake pit because it was moved here. Since it's been moved here, I believe they hope very few see it.
Jon has had over 2,100 posts on this board. Unlike Smokin and Fooley (sorry guys, your the only ones I know of in recent history to be banned) I have never read anything by Jon that has been remotly offensive, nor has he been banned to my knowledge.
He is obviously fed up with being dealt with unfairly. I'm assuming he never posted anything that would violate the rules that are clearly posted. If I'm wrong on this, post it here. If I'm right on this, post it here.
To who deleted Jon's posts, remember that this board is only as good as it's users.
Jon has had over 2,100 posts on this board. Unlike Smokin and Fooley (sorry guys, your the only ones I know of in recent history to be banned) I have never read anything by Jon that has been remotly offensive, nor has he been banned to my knowledge.
He is obviously fed up with being dealt with unfairly. I'm assuming he never posted anything that would violate the rules that are clearly posted. If I'm wrong on this, post it here. If I'm right on this, post it here.
To who deleted Jon's posts, remember that this board is only as good as it's users.
ParB
Viper Owner
Jay,
as a paying member of the VCA, i assume that i can get a transcript of all decisions the board of directors are making?
Are transcripts or minutes of the board meetings published on the VCA website somewhere?
If i had access to those decisions, such as the above quoted posting guidelines on the VCA members forum, i could understand how these decisions are made and more importantly i can ensure that the official representing my voice is representing me correctly.
Thanks,
Par
as a paying member of the VCA, i assume that i can get a transcript of all decisions the board of directors are making?
Are transcripts or minutes of the board meetings published on the VCA website somewhere?
If i had access to those decisions, such as the above quoted posting guidelines on the VCA members forum, i could understand how these decisions are made and more importantly i can ensure that the official representing my voice is representing me correctly.
Thanks,
Par
1TONY1
Enthusiast
We have a name for the moderators of a few of the outlaw drag race boards I visit. (one is a good friend)
"web **** " damm you can't even say nazzi...who does that offend
not that it fits all or any moderators on this board but the post of the conversation that USAF had with a mod is very troubling to me. I havn't been on to long..Dec.2001...and was watching a few months before and if it wasn't for some of the smack, ribbing etc. I would not have stayed around. I would have just checked in from time to time to look at tech stuff or to ask a quetion. Maybe its time the mods looked at their peers and made a few changes.
"web **** " damm you can't even say nazzi...who does that offend
not that it fits all or any moderators on this board but the post of the conversation that USAF had with a mod is very troubling to me. I havn't been on to long..Dec.2001...and was watching a few months before and if it wasn't for some of the smack, ribbing etc. I would not have stayed around. I would have just checked in from time to time to look at tech stuff or to ask a quetion. Maybe its time the mods looked at their peers and made a few changes.
kowalski vanishing point
Enthusiast
"Mirth is Satan's seeing eye dog."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Anonymous
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Anonymous
Serious Eric
Enthusiast
Step up and tell us who yanked the Snake Pit posts today Officers? I'll say straight out that I suspect it was Tony Estes. I saw him on the board right around the time the "Who Deleted the Smack King" thread disappeared. He and Michael Pierce were the only mod-empowered folks there. And I don't think it was Pierce. I know him and high-handed mystery disappearances are not his style. This is only the dreary umpteenth time that one of you arrogant officers has done that and we are darned tired of it!
There was nothing at all wrong with that thread except that it questioned your abuse of authority. No cussing, no fighting, just people wondering why the first thread got nuked. You guys with your high-handedness really make us members mad! You'll delete this post I'm sure since you're so insecure that you can't stand criticism of any sort, but I'll tell you this anyway. You officers act like clowns. Those suggestions from Herbert about how to contact your regional DAL representative sound like the kind of bureaucratic blow-off speak that you'd expect to get filing a claim against some byzantine insurance company. WHo the heck do y'all think you are? You're officers in a stupid little car club for crying out loud!! Not board members of MEGA CONGLOMO MULTINATIONAL INC, with financial tentacles into the highest seats of power in the land! Get real.
I don't like how you guys act on this board. A bunch of us don't like your behavior ... A whole bunch of us!! Is that straight enough? And I'm not going to crawl through your bureaucracy on hands and knees to tell you that. Here it is, from me to you! If only we could break down your old boy club and throw you all out this minute, by God we would. But of course we have no power. If we aren't clubby with our regional presidents and pan-district super-regional DALs (whatever), which none of us are then we're screwed ... which we are.
Why don't you little faceless gray men come forward and speak to the users of the Snake Pit and tell us all why you do what you do? Face your critics like men for once instead of all this sneaking around arbitrarily enforcing some rules that nobody understands and that only piss off the members that THIS BOARD IS FOR!!!
There was nothing at all wrong with that thread except that it questioned your abuse of authority. No cussing, no fighting, just people wondering why the first thread got nuked. You guys with your high-handedness really make us members mad! You'll delete this post I'm sure since you're so insecure that you can't stand criticism of any sort, but I'll tell you this anyway. You officers act like clowns. Those suggestions from Herbert about how to contact your regional DAL representative sound like the kind of bureaucratic blow-off speak that you'd expect to get filing a claim against some byzantine insurance company. WHo the heck do y'all think you are? You're officers in a stupid little car club for crying out loud!! Not board members of MEGA CONGLOMO MULTINATIONAL INC, with financial tentacles into the highest seats of power in the land! Get real.
I don't like how you guys act on this board. A bunch of us don't like your behavior ... A whole bunch of us!! Is that straight enough? And I'm not going to crawl through your bureaucracy on hands and knees to tell you that. Here it is, from me to you! If only we could break down your old boy club and throw you all out this minute, by God we would. But of course we have no power. If we aren't clubby with our regional presidents and pan-district super-regional DALs (whatever), which none of us are then we're screwed ... which we are.
Why don't you little faceless gray men come forward and speak to the users of the Snake Pit and tell us all why you do what you do? Face your critics like men for once instead of all this sneaking around arbitrarily enforcing some rules that nobody understands and that only piss off the members that THIS BOARD IS FOR!!!
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
Eric,
WOW!
I don't disagree with everything you said, either. I know most of the mods and I do believe they are acting in the best interests of the board... wait, let me rephrase that. I believe they are acting in what they believe are the best interests of the board.
I think the smack that was happening on the board a couple of weeks back got out of hand. I decided to back out of the site for a few days until it died down, as did others. I personally think insulting other members directly is a slippery slope to go down, because each ego tries to outwit the other ego, and inevitably, someone takes genuine offense, even if it's not the two people engaging in 'the smack'.
Now, if you accept that there must be limits, and those limits must be established and followed, that's Ok. I guess you could put me in the list that thinks friendly ribbing is Ok, but if it goes beyond that to what is (or appears to be) genuine insulting or harassment, it should be stopped.
But whatever, that's a personal feeling of mine - others will vary.
What I *have* argued all along is that whenever something is removed, i think the person removing it should *LOCK* the thread and the last post should be the reason it was locked. The whole ***** and it's gone* form of moderation is not good, IMO. I am on a lot of discussion boards, and usually the lock function with an explanation is used quite a lot - and while people may not always agree with the decision, at least it doesn't appear as underhanded in any way.
Anyways, I am rambling. I am going to bring up a suggestion I originally made a while ago.
Why doesn't the board administration hold a conference call whereby multiple parties can call in to discuss this matter? I think part of the problem is nobody knows who is doing what, and surely you mods must also know that sometimes you disagree amongst yourselves. I think it would go a LONG way to settling things if the members who were genuinely concerned could call into a conference and discuss this.
I suggested this before, and I was told that I was trying to "gang up" on the moderator who was removing the posts. That was untrue back then, and it is untrue now. My motive is simply that whenever things are handled between individuals, some folk feel left out and that they're not getting the whole story. How many hours total are being spent on the phone between various people discussing this very issue?
Why not just have a conference call and let everyone bring up their issues to the board administration? Maybe even quarterly conference calls would be a good idea? If not, at least one for now is required, IMO.
WOW!
I think the smack that was happening on the board a couple of weeks back got out of hand. I decided to back out of the site for a few days until it died down, as did others. I personally think insulting other members directly is a slippery slope to go down, because each ego tries to outwit the other ego, and inevitably, someone takes genuine offense, even if it's not the two people engaging in 'the smack'.
Now, if you accept that there must be limits, and those limits must be established and followed, that's Ok. I guess you could put me in the list that thinks friendly ribbing is Ok, but if it goes beyond that to what is (or appears to be) genuine insulting or harassment, it should be stopped.
But whatever, that's a personal feeling of mine - others will vary.
What I *have* argued all along is that whenever something is removed, i think the person removing it should *LOCK* the thread and the last post should be the reason it was locked. The whole ***** and it's gone* form of moderation is not good, IMO. I am on a lot of discussion boards, and usually the lock function with an explanation is used quite a lot - and while people may not always agree with the decision, at least it doesn't appear as underhanded in any way.
Anyways, I am rambling. I am going to bring up a suggestion I originally made a while ago.
Why doesn't the board administration hold a conference call whereby multiple parties can call in to discuss this matter? I think part of the problem is nobody knows who is doing what, and surely you mods must also know that sometimes you disagree amongst yourselves. I think it would go a LONG way to settling things if the members who were genuinely concerned could call into a conference and discuss this.
I suggested this before, and I was told that I was trying to "gang up" on the moderator who was removing the posts. That was untrue back then, and it is untrue now. My motive is simply that whenever things are handled between individuals, some folk feel left out and that they're not getting the whole story. How many hours total are being spent on the phone between various people discussing this very issue?
Why not just have a conference call and let everyone bring up their issues to the board administration? Maybe even quarterly conference calls would be a good idea? If not, at least one for now is required, IMO.
Vic
VCA Venom Member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2000
- Posts
- 6,764
- Reaction score
- 1
This isn't a free speech site. Its a private site. You don't have free speech right here, and that's a good thing. IF this site weren't moderated at all, eventually the lowest common denominator will lower the site to the scummy stature of the Supra forum, or worse.
I for one like the positive atmosphere of our VCA forum. As long as I am free to express my religious freedom, I don't feel like I am being censored.
You can get your posts deleted for being a general pain in the butt, so why cast yourself constantly in the role of the protagonist?
Does anyone shout "HI" to their friend Jack on a plane? (Hi, Jack)
Do you have a right to talk about feces during dinner? Of course you do, but why would you want to?
Some things are just not appropriate. If you wanna talk nasty, go to another board. This board is run very well. If anyone doesn't think there posts deserve to be pulled, you can talk to Jay, Tony, they are reasonable people, and have done a lot to make the VCA what it is. Jay Herbert started this board, and donated it to the VCA. What we have is great because someone put some effort in and created something. Its easy to criticise, and much harder to create. What have you done to benefit the VCA? Are you a member?
When I first came here, I was critical of Vipers. I made some enemies, but I couldn't deny I liked Vipers. Then I bought one, largely due to the great people I met here of the VCA.
Stick around, folks, things get better.
I for one like the positive atmosphere of our VCA forum. As long as I am free to express my religious freedom, I don't feel like I am being censored.
You can get your posts deleted for being a general pain in the butt, so why cast yourself constantly in the role of the protagonist?
Does anyone shout "HI" to their friend Jack on a plane? (Hi, Jack)
Do you have a right to talk about feces during dinner? Of course you do, but why would you want to?
Some things are just not appropriate. If you wanna talk nasty, go to another board. This board is run very well. If anyone doesn't think there posts deserve to be pulled, you can talk to Jay, Tony, they are reasonable people, and have done a lot to make the VCA what it is. Jay Herbert started this board, and donated it to the VCA. What we have is great because someone put some effort in and created something. Its easy to criticise, and much harder to create. What have you done to benefit the VCA? Are you a member?
When I first came here, I was critical of Vipers. I made some enemies, but I couldn't deny I liked Vipers. Then I bought one, largely due to the great people I met here of the VCA.
Stick around, folks, things get better.
SmokinV10
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eric Schieve:
Step up and tell us who yanked the Snake Pit posts today Officers? I'll say straight out that I suspect it was Tony Estes. I saw him on the board right around the time the "Who Deleted the Smack King" thread disappeared. He and Michael Pierce were the only mod-empowered folks there. And I don't think it was Pierce. I know him and high-handed mystery disappearances are not his style. This is only the dreary umpteenth time that one of you arrogant officers has done that and we are darned tired of it!
There was nothing at all wrong with that thread except that it questioned your abuse of authority. No cussing, no fighting, just people wondering why the first thread got nuked. You guys with your high-handedness really make us members mad! You'll delete this post I'm sure since you're so insecure that you can't stand criticism of any sort, but I'll tell you this anyway. You officers act like clowns. Those suggestions from Herbert about how to contact your regional DAL representative sound like the kind of bureaucratic blow-off speak that you'd expect to get filing a claim against some byzantine insurance company. WHo the heck do y'all think you are? You're officers in a stupid little car club for crying out loud!! Not board members of MEGA CONGLOMO MULTINATIONAL INC, with financial tentacles into the highest seats of power in the land! Get real.
I don't like how you guys act on this board. A bunch of us don't like your behavior ... A whole bunch of us!! Is that straight enough? And I'm not going to crawl through your bureaucracy on hands and knees to tell you that. Here it is, from me to you! If only we could break down your old boy club and throw you all out this minute, by God we would. But of course we have no power. If we aren't clubby with our regional presidents and pan-district super-regional DALs (whatever), which none of us are then we're screwed ... which we are.
Why don't you little faceless gray men come forward and speak to the users of the Snake Pit and tell us all why you do what you do? Face your critics like men for once instead of all this sneaking around arbitrarily enforcing some rules that nobody understands and that only piss off the members that THIS BOARD IS FOR!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
AMEN!!!!! AMEN!!!!! AMEN!!!!! I do not disagree with ANYTHING you said at all Eric. Well said. Well put. This post is to the point and voices opinions of AT LEAST 10 VCA members I had on AIM in the last 3 hours!!!! The sad fact is that the "hidden" mods feel that they are so much better than us, that they are so powerful that we cant do anything about their unfair, un-democratic, un-American actions. They obviously forget that WE, VIPER NATION make their board possible. Without us their site is NOTHING. They seem to play these silly politics so that their site can get more "noticed" and accepted by DC as an "official" DC site (what I have heard). Eric, the name you named above is correct. However I believe,...let me correct that, I know there is more than just Tony Estes. There are 3. Fooley named the other 2...hmmmm. So for those of you "hidden mods" hiding behind your keyboard. Notice that you have made us VERY ANGRY, Disgruntled, unsatisfied, and Wary. You will undoubteldly try to shut us up by deleting this thread in a cowardly manner. I challenge you to have the guts to keep it up, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!. Remember for every one of us that actually responds to this,there are 10 reading, and 10 agreeing, and if you deleted it MANY who will just notice how true our observations are. If you make enough of us mad, if enough of us follow in JMcGuires footsteps, there will be nothing left. No more fun, no mroe snake pit. But probably enough people to actually make another more competitive site successful! Everyone, keep on chiming in. They need to notice!! They need to wake up!
Step up and tell us who yanked the Snake Pit posts today Officers? I'll say straight out that I suspect it was Tony Estes. I saw him on the board right around the time the "Who Deleted the Smack King" thread disappeared. He and Michael Pierce were the only mod-empowered folks there. And I don't think it was Pierce. I know him and high-handed mystery disappearances are not his style. This is only the dreary umpteenth time that one of you arrogant officers has done that and we are darned tired of it!
There was nothing at all wrong with that thread except that it questioned your abuse of authority. No cussing, no fighting, just people wondering why the first thread got nuked. You guys with your high-handedness really make us members mad! You'll delete this post I'm sure since you're so insecure that you can't stand criticism of any sort, but I'll tell you this anyway. You officers act like clowns. Those suggestions from Herbert about how to contact your regional DAL representative sound like the kind of bureaucratic blow-off speak that you'd expect to get filing a claim against some byzantine insurance company. WHo the heck do y'all think you are? You're officers in a stupid little car club for crying out loud!! Not board members of MEGA CONGLOMO MULTINATIONAL INC, with financial tentacles into the highest seats of power in the land! Get real.
I don't like how you guys act on this board. A bunch of us don't like your behavior ... A whole bunch of us!! Is that straight enough? And I'm not going to crawl through your bureaucracy on hands and knees to tell you that. Here it is, from me to you! If only we could break down your old boy club and throw you all out this minute, by God we would. But of course we have no power. If we aren't clubby with our regional presidents and pan-district super-regional DALs (whatever), which none of us are then we're screwed ... which we are.
Why don't you little faceless gray men come forward and speak to the users of the Snake Pit and tell us all why you do what you do? Face your critics like men for once instead of all this sneaking around arbitrarily enforcing some rules that nobody understands and that only piss off the members that THIS BOARD IS FOR!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
AMEN!!!!! AMEN!!!!! AMEN!!!!! I do not disagree with ANYTHING you said at all Eric. Well said. Well put. This post is to the point and voices opinions of AT LEAST 10 VCA members I had on AIM in the last 3 hours!!!! The sad fact is that the "hidden" mods feel that they are so much better than us, that they are so powerful that we cant do anything about their unfair, un-democratic, un-American actions. They obviously forget that WE, VIPER NATION make their board possible. Without us their site is NOTHING. They seem to play these silly politics so that their site can get more "noticed" and accepted by DC as an "official" DC site (what I have heard). Eric, the name you named above is correct. However I believe,...let me correct that, I know there is more than just Tony Estes. There are 3. Fooley named the other 2...hmmmm. So for those of you "hidden mods" hiding behind your keyboard. Notice that you have made us VERY ANGRY, Disgruntled, unsatisfied, and Wary. You will undoubteldly try to shut us up by deleting this thread in a cowardly manner. I challenge you to have the guts to keep it up, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!. Remember for every one of us that actually responds to this,there are 10 reading, and 10 agreeing, and if you deleted it MANY who will just notice how true our observations are. If you make enough of us mad, if enough of us follow in JMcGuires footsteps, there will be nothing left. No more fun, no mroe snake pit. But probably enough people to actually make another more competitive site successful! Everyone, keep on chiming in. They need to notice!! They need to wake up!
SmokinV10
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vic:
This isn't a free speech site. Its a private site. You don't hace free speech right here, and that's a good thing. IF this site weren't moderated at all, eventually the lowest common denominator will lower the site to the scummy stature of the Supra forum, or worse.
I for one like the positive atmosphere of our VCA forum. As long as I am free to express my religious freedom, I don't feel like I am being censored.
You can get your posts deleted for being a general pain in the butt, so why cast yourself constantly in the role of the protagonist?
Does anyone shout "HI" to their friend Jack on a plane? (Hi, Jack)
Do you have a right to talk about feces during dinner? Of course you do, but why would you want to?
Some things are just not appropriate. If you wanna talk nasty, go to another board. This board is run very well. If anyone doesn't think there posts deserve to be pulled, you can talk to Jay, Tony, they are reasonable people, and have done a lot to make the VCA what it is. Jay Herbert started this board, and donated it to the VCA. What we have is great because someone put some effort in and created something. Its easy to criticise, and much harder to create. What have you done to benefit the VCA? Are you a member?
When I first came here, I was critical of Vipers. I made some enemies, but I couldn't deny I liked Vipers. Then I bought one, largely due to the great people I met here of the VCA.
Stick around, folks, things get better.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Vic,
You dont have the whole picture. What started all of this was perfectly fine posts getting deleted. Why cant we have fun? If you are one of those people who are so uptight that you cant take a little fun, I dont want to meet you. Actually I believe most of the regulars would probably feel the same. Viper owners are by-in-large, adults. It would seem that most of us are successful because we have good personalities and can take some joking and prodding. Some, however, are obviously sit behind a desk all day and are lacking in the people skills department.
I dont commend Jay for the beaurocratic post he made. Yes, that is his viewpoint but that doesnt make the rampant unfair deletion of perfectly sane posts right. From what I know, He didnt donate this site, he was compensated for it, and is STILL compensated for it. Im not going to go too far by saying more. But put it this way, things arent as nice as you think they are. Vic, Now if you are one of those people who just lets things get by you because you want a peaceful atmosphere, because you want to avoid conflict, even if its wrong....well, SHAME ON YOU! I for one dont like fun posts that are HARMLESS being deleted. It destroys the fun atmosphere. If you dont like to have fun, and just want to talk cars, smooth tubes, exhaust systems, slicks, superchargers, nitrous, heads, cams and roller rockers, stay out of the Snake Pit, you dont belong! Whats wrong with "the VCA King of Smack" thread? Its not fun for you? Why is that being a "pain in the butt". Maybe you are one of those people that needs to LIGHTEN UP too! No one was shouting anything inflammatory. No one was name calling. if you cant have fun with a thread like that,...that is just sad. Were you one of those kids who wouldnt share his HW with other kids? Are you the guy in the office who wont go to an office party because "beer is bad for you?" sad sad sad
Hiddens, if you want me to shut up, email me. But as a disclaimer, I dont think Ive said anything wrong here. Its just my opinion and the opinion of many others.
This isn't a free speech site. Its a private site. You don't hace free speech right here, and that's a good thing. IF this site weren't moderated at all, eventually the lowest common denominator will lower the site to the scummy stature of the Supra forum, or worse.
I for one like the positive atmosphere of our VCA forum. As long as I am free to express my religious freedom, I don't feel like I am being censored.
You can get your posts deleted for being a general pain in the butt, so why cast yourself constantly in the role of the protagonist?
Does anyone shout "HI" to their friend Jack on a plane? (Hi, Jack)
Do you have a right to talk about feces during dinner? Of course you do, but why would you want to?
Some things are just not appropriate. If you wanna talk nasty, go to another board. This board is run very well. If anyone doesn't think there posts deserve to be pulled, you can talk to Jay, Tony, they are reasonable people, and have done a lot to make the VCA what it is. Jay Herbert started this board, and donated it to the VCA. What we have is great because someone put some effort in and created something. Its easy to criticise, and much harder to create. What have you done to benefit the VCA? Are you a member?
When I first came here, I was critical of Vipers. I made some enemies, but I couldn't deny I liked Vipers. Then I bought one, largely due to the great people I met here of the VCA.
Stick around, folks, things get better.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Vic,
You dont have the whole picture. What started all of this was perfectly fine posts getting deleted. Why cant we have fun? If you are one of those people who are so uptight that you cant take a little fun, I dont want to meet you. Actually I believe most of the regulars would probably feel the same. Viper owners are by-in-large, adults. It would seem that most of us are successful because we have good personalities and can take some joking and prodding. Some, however, are obviously sit behind a desk all day and are lacking in the people skills department.
I dont commend Jay for the beaurocratic post he made. Yes, that is his viewpoint but that doesnt make the rampant unfair deletion of perfectly sane posts right. From what I know, He didnt donate this site, he was compensated for it, and is STILL compensated for it. Im not going to go too far by saying more. But put it this way, things arent as nice as you think they are. Vic, Now if you are one of those people who just lets things get by you because you want a peaceful atmosphere, because you want to avoid conflict, even if its wrong....well, SHAME ON YOU! I for one dont like fun posts that are HARMLESS being deleted. It destroys the fun atmosphere. If you dont like to have fun, and just want to talk cars, smooth tubes, exhaust systems, slicks, superchargers, nitrous, heads, cams and roller rockers, stay out of the Snake Pit, you dont belong! Whats wrong with "the VCA King of Smack" thread? Its not fun for you? Why is that being a "pain in the butt". Maybe you are one of those people that needs to LIGHTEN UP too! No one was shouting anything inflammatory. No one was name calling. if you cant have fun with a thread like that,...that is just sad. Were you one of those kids who wouldnt share his HW with other kids? Are you the guy in the office who wont go to an office party because "beer is bad for you?" sad sad sad
Hiddens, if you want me to shut up, email me. But as a disclaimer, I dont think Ive said anything wrong here. Its just my opinion and the opinion of many others.
FUSCUCLA1
Enthusiast
OK its late and I have been skimming this thread.
I have been coming to this board for years, I had originally signed up when it was just a mailing list. I have to say that it has become better recently with all the fun and comeraderie (sp?). I see two issues here.
The first is posts that don't violate the board's guidlines being deleted. This shoul dbe a no brainer to everyone. It should not happen and anyone who is doing it should not be a moderator. Using a position of power to push around someone you don't like is not acceptable. I dunno if it is happening, but if it is it needs to STOP.
The second issue is posts that are questionable being deleted. Well, I can understand the reason for not allowing a free for all. Afterall, it will result in a board that is counter productive. BUT allowing MarkO to post certain pics, or for Smokin' to say extreme things is different. We are this board, we are Viper owners and I really don't understand this requirement for PG-13. Its all in fun AND I do come here to have some fun, get away from my everyday life and laugh a little with "friends". Certainly i am not suggesting that the mods allow everyone and anyone to post anything, but why is it sooo strict.
Anyways, I am rambling, but my main concern is posts that are in no way inflammatory being deleted.
I have been coming to this board for years, I had originally signed up when it was just a mailing list. I have to say that it has become better recently with all the fun and comeraderie (sp?). I see two issues here.
The first is posts that don't violate the board's guidlines being deleted. This shoul dbe a no brainer to everyone. It should not happen and anyone who is doing it should not be a moderator. Using a position of power to push around someone you don't like is not acceptable. I dunno if it is happening, but if it is it needs to STOP.
The second issue is posts that are questionable being deleted. Well, I can understand the reason for not allowing a free for all. Afterall, it will result in a board that is counter productive. BUT allowing MarkO to post certain pics, or for Smokin' to say extreme things is different. We are this board, we are Viper owners and I really don't understand this requirement for PG-13. Its all in fun AND I do come here to have some fun, get away from my everyday life and laugh a little with "friends". Certainly i am not suggesting that the mods allow everyone and anyone to post anything, but why is it sooo strict.
Anyways, I am rambling, but my main concern is posts that are in no way inflammatory being deleted.
Eddie N
Enthusiast
IT WAS MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!! just kidding..i just needed a reason to post so i can say NICE CAR VIPERJIM!!
thanks,
- eddie -
thanks,
- eddie -
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SmokinV10:
The sad fact is that the "hidden" mods feel that they are so much better than us, that they are so powerful that we cant do anything about their unfair, un-democratic, un-American actions. They obviously forget that WE, VIPER NATION make their board possible. Without us their site is NOTHING. They seem to play these silly politics so that their site can get more "noticed" and accepted by DC as an "official" DC site (what I have heard). Eric, the name you named above is correct. However I believe,...let me correct that, I know there is more than just Tony Estes. There are 3. Fooley named the other 2...hmmmm. So for those of you "hidden mods" hiding behind your keyboard. Notice that you have made us VERY ANGRY, Disgruntled, unsatisfied, and Wary. You will undoubteldly try to shut us up by deleting this thread in a cowardly manner. I challenge you to have the guts to keep it up, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!. Remember for every one of us that actually responds to this,there are 10 reading, and 10 agreeing, and if you deleted it MANY who will just notice how true our observations are. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Smokin,
For once, I'm being sincere with you.
I really think the attitude displayed here hurts your case more than helps it. You're overstating your case to make a point. The mods aren't sitting at their homes laughing at the little worker ants doing their beck and call and gaining pleasure from their frustration, yet this is how you are making them out to be. I think most of us are pretty intelligent, and anyone who is going to be reasonable about the whole thing knows that this isn't the truth of what is going on. By taking the stand that they are natsis (yeah misspelled I know), and this is communist Russia, and that we are being opressed, you close off the possibility of productive dialogue. If you don't press for change in a reasonable manner, then you'll be brushed off as an unreasonable person, and hence won't be heeded.
I will say again that I think the "smack" the took place a while back was out of line - way out of line. I think it's a slippery slope. People have different types of humor - I think it's pretty clear that the blatant NC-17 "your momma *****" humor is not tolerated or appreciated. Fair enough. Others have a good time without stooping to that sort of laugh. I'd much rather go see George Carlin than Jackie Martling.
I also think you'd be surprised how many folks disagree with the free-for-all type smacking in the off-topic section.
Jay and the moderators, in conjunction with Dodge, are tasked with operating a site that is informative for Viper owners and other interested parties. They have set the level of the board at PG-13... you or I may not agree, but regardless that is the level that has been set. It appears many of us (including yourself, most of the time) operate within those guidelines. So what is the REAL problem? Is it the lack of freedom to act the way we want? That's not going to change, so we need to deal with that. Is it the perceived unfair removal of threads with no notice? I think that is a big BIG part of the problem.
You need to push for reasonable changes, and do it in a manner that opens a CONSTRUCTIVE dialogue with the folks in charge. I think the locking of objectionable threads with a note from the moderator would go a long long loooong way towards making things better.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
The sad fact is that the "hidden" mods feel that they are so much better than us, that they are so powerful that we cant do anything about their unfair, un-democratic, un-American actions. They obviously forget that WE, VIPER NATION make their board possible. Without us their site is NOTHING. They seem to play these silly politics so that their site can get more "noticed" and accepted by DC as an "official" DC site (what I have heard). Eric, the name you named above is correct. However I believe,...let me correct that, I know there is more than just Tony Estes. There are 3. Fooley named the other 2...hmmmm. So for those of you "hidden mods" hiding behind your keyboard. Notice that you have made us VERY ANGRY, Disgruntled, unsatisfied, and Wary. You will undoubteldly try to shut us up by deleting this thread in a cowardly manner. I challenge you to have the guts to keep it up, LIKE IT SHOULD BE!. Remember for every one of us that actually responds to this,there are 10 reading, and 10 agreeing, and if you deleted it MANY who will just notice how true our observations are. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Smokin,
For once, I'm being sincere with you.
I really think the attitude displayed here hurts your case more than helps it. You're overstating your case to make a point. The mods aren't sitting at their homes laughing at the little worker ants doing their beck and call and gaining pleasure from their frustration, yet this is how you are making them out to be. I think most of us are pretty intelligent, and anyone who is going to be reasonable about the whole thing knows that this isn't the truth of what is going on. By taking the stand that they are natsis (yeah misspelled I know), and this is communist Russia, and that we are being opressed, you close off the possibility of productive dialogue. If you don't press for change in a reasonable manner, then you'll be brushed off as an unreasonable person, and hence won't be heeded.
I will say again that I think the "smack" the took place a while back was out of line - way out of line. I think it's a slippery slope. People have different types of humor - I think it's pretty clear that the blatant NC-17 "your momma *****" humor is not tolerated or appreciated. Fair enough. Others have a good time without stooping to that sort of laugh. I'd much rather go see George Carlin than Jackie Martling.
I also think you'd be surprised how many folks disagree with the free-for-all type smacking in the off-topic section.
Jay and the moderators, in conjunction with Dodge, are tasked with operating a site that is informative for Viper owners and other interested parties. They have set the level of the board at PG-13... you or I may not agree, but regardless that is the level that has been set. It appears many of us (including yourself, most of the time) operate within those guidelines. So what is the REAL problem? Is it the lack of freedom to act the way we want? That's not going to change, so we need to deal with that. Is it the perceived unfair removal of threads with no notice? I think that is a big BIG part of the problem.
You need to push for reasonable changes, and do it in a manner that opens a CONSTRUCTIVE dialogue with the folks in charge. I think the locking of objectionable threads with a note from the moderator would go a long long loooong way towards making things better.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipermad:
In the thread with DevilDog...it was YOU GUYS who basically made the point to him that he shouldn't have messed with you on YOUR turf....when in fact it is NOT your turf. I have spoken with Jim, just as I have spoken with several of you...he is no different.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sheesh, one of the few times I dish it out and all **** breaks out.
In the thread with DevilDog...it was YOU GUYS who basically made the point to him that he shouldn't have messed with you on YOUR turf....when in fact it is NOT your turf. I have spoken with Jim, just as I have spoken with several of you...he is no different.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sheesh, one of the few times I dish it out and all **** breaks out.
- Status
