mods waste of money

[fast?]

2001 rt/10 ran 12.76 stock. $7000 later(without install) K&N AIRBOX AND FILTERS -3" HOSES -70mm THROTTLE BODIES -T&D 1.7 ROCKER ARMS -BB 1 3/4 HEADERS -NO CATS -CORSA EXHAUST. Dynoed the car 395rwhp 405rwtq(with the engine light on at 100 degrees out in the desert). Got engine light off and ran a whooping 12.4 I know i need to practice my launching(2.14 60' times). Did i waste too much money or do i need to add more(haha).
any advice on why my car dynoes so bad.
Any advice on launchin? Also since my mods I run through the trap @116mph in 3rd gear.

 

[USAF BAD ASP]

you need nitrous man.. it's cheap and will really drop those times down alot

 

[KenH]

Those numbers are on the low end of the typical stock dyno number range. My '01 GTS dyno'd at 394hp/414tq corrected which is on the lower side from what I have seen.

If the numbers weren't SAE corrected, the 100 degree temp will lower your dyno numbers significantly. Also having the check engine light on will cause the Viper to run rich and **** some power as well. Lastly, I think most people would recommend that the 70mm TBs with a near stock engine are overkill and may actually hurt your performance at this mod level.

--- Ken

 

[ronviper]

Trent you have a problem, with k&n filters, hennessey airbox, b&b headers, mopar computer my 2000gts made 441rwhp and 481rwtq. Mine is about average with most with similar mods. Maybe 70mm throttle bodies is hurting the performance. Stock i made 410 rwhp and 448 rwtq

 

[fast?]

The reason I put 70mm throttle bodies is because I intend to install nitrous as soon as nx ships out the kit. I plan to go back to the dyno ,now that my engine light is off.How much do you guys think the 70mm are affecting my performance without the n20??? With my engine light off should my car pull about 450+ with my mods????

 

[Joel]

I tried several different approaches to the quarter recently... still learning, but in 3rd gear I hit the rev limiter just before the line. That run got me a 12.6. Think its best to change at about 5500 and into 4th gear before the line.

 

[varanus]

trent, why are you running the 70mm with nitrous?

I heard 70 mm is overkill with headwork to open up breathing and robs you of torque

I just put on the nx kit on a 97 gts

 

[fast?]

Should i put the stock throttle bodies back on or leave the 70mm ??? If my car is going to run more power with the stock ones then i'll swap them back.
What rpm is everyone shifting ??
Should i put my hiflow cats back on too??

Is my setup in my car good or bad?
What should i change?

 

[King GTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by trent:
2001 rt/10 ran 12.76 stock. $7000 later(without install) K AIRBOX AND FILTERS -3" HOSES -70mm THROTTLE BODIES -T 1.7 ROCKER ARMS -BB 1 3/4 HEADERS -NO CATS -CORSA EXHAUST. Dynoed the car 395rwhp 405rwtq(with the engine light on at 100 degrees out in the desert). Got engine light off and ran a whooping 12.4 I know i need to practice my launching(2.14 60' times). Did i waste too much money or do i need to add more(haha).
any advice on why my car dynoes so bad.
Any advice on launchin? Also since my mods I run through the trap @116mph in 3rd gear.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm really confused by your post. (without install) what in the world does that mean? If you only got 395 to the ground with those mods then something's drastically wrong! And that would be the cause of the 12.4 ET. You should have at least 459 to the ground with that set up. I had 459 RWHP when I had that exact same set-up & I know of several Viper owners w/ 2001's that made more than that. You & I seem to have the similar skills behind the wheel (I'm not a pro like a lot of guys on here) and I had a best time of 12.0 with those mods......on regular tires. I'd definitely keep the 70 mm throttle bodies. Jason Fontenot has them & I don't......he pulled me because of that added HP. We have the exact same cars w/ the exact same mods. 2001 just like you. I'll be adding them this week. Take a look at your dyno graph & that should tell you exactly when you should be shifting.
Who did the work on your car?

 

[varanus]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by trent:
Should i put the stock throttle bodies back on or leave the 70mm ??? If my car is going to run more power with the stock ones then i'll swap them back.
What rpm is everyone shifting ??
Should i put my hiflow cats back on too??

Is my setup in my car good or bad?
What should i change?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only the dyno will tell if the tbs work.
If you are running nitrous, you probably will be shifting lower rpm (like around 4500) because nitrous moves the powerband lower. Once again a dyno on the nitrous will helpyou calculate shift points

 

[1 Bad Snake]

I would also find out what gear they did your dyno in, if it was third you probably got an incorrect dyno reading. The car should be dynoed in fourth. My gen 1 with basically the same mods put 424 to the wheels. The mods you made are a great starting point.

 

[Jerry Dobson]

Just remember the HUGE difference in all Vipers. During Dyno Days I see STOCK cars going from 390 to 435 HP.

So from car to car, even the same year, there is a difference.

The high mileage cars are always the strongest ones. Most of our cars are not even broke in yet.

 

[King GTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jerry Dobson:
Just remember the HUGE difference in all Vipers. During Dyno Days I see STOCK cars going from 390 to 435 HP.


So from car to car, even the same year, there is a difference.


The high mileage cars are always the strongest ones. Most of our cars are not even broke in yet.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree whole heartedly but there's something wrong with his. I had barely no miles on my 01 when I hit that #. There's too big of a disparity.

 

[THEMASH]

Take the 70mm TB out, and install the stock back on. Even with NOS you dont need 70mm TBs.
A Viper with headwork might run 65mm, maybe 68. 70mm on stock heads is overkill, am pretty sure you are losing some hp/tq using those.
I have your exact same mods but without the TBs and the T&D rockers, and i dynod at 438rwhp/488rwtq.
Just to give you an idea of some times for an average driver like me, and was able to run 12.03 @ 120.7 while track was still a bit damp "it had just rained and track did not dry completely" with "headers + exhaust + no cats". I ran a 12.13@119 stock. my car is an ACR so i already have the intake and smooth tubes.

 

[ElDiablo Viper]

What you need is sims for the cats that you took off. I removed cats from my car that dynoed at 430RWHP 1300 miles Corsa/K&N only. After taking the cats out the car I lost 6HP because it run VERY FAT. I'm instaling the sims and also adding Sean's VEC1.

 

[Tom Welch]

Those Throttle bodies will make nice Cacti Planters. Otherwise they are killing your torque.

Did you have an a/f meter connected for your pulls. You could have an excessive rich mixture which hurts performance.

You will run more mph by shifting into 4th gear.

As you increase horsepower, if you do not increase traction you will not LOWER ELAPSED TIMES. 1/4 mile elapsed times are directly proportional to 60' times.

There is no doubt that Nitrous is the best performance gain for the dollar. Even with refilling bottles it will take years to overcome the price of other products that make similar power gains. Also consider the resale value of aftermarket items once used.

Good luck with your Viper,

Tom Http://btrviper.com

 

[fast?]

Thanks for the reply Tom. Im going to put the stock tbs back on and check out the dyno results.How bad are the bigger throttle bodies? think it will be ok to run 3.55 gears with nitrous or will it be too squirley ?

 

[Tom Welch]

That 3.55 gear will work ok for a mildly modified non nitrous car. Add nitrous and you will have to go back to 3.07 in order
to complete a 1/4 mile pass without using 5th gear(overdrive that will kill e.t and mph)not to mention the fact that you will be shifting like a Monkey on Crack!

Your engine will accelerate much faster on Nitrous and makes peak power at LOWER RPMs than without nitrous which means that you will be shifting sooner.

Please feel free to contact me via email or phone with any questions that you may have regarding adding nitrous to your Viper.

Tom
Http://btrviper.com
(407) 359-2223

 

[fast?]

just got back from the dyno,another dissapointing day. Installed the stock throttle bodies and got the engine light off with some sims. Results were 434.6rwhp 450.9rwtq Are those bad numbers for all the mods i did to the car? Should i run the car a few hundred miles so the computer resets the mod changes? The temp outside is 112 degrees but inside the shop was 91.5 elevation 2100 ft. Most of the other cars on this site are running alot higher hp and torque numbers with even less mods than me. Whats my next move with these mods to get in the 445-470hp range with 470-485 torque range?
My torque curve seems to dip from 390@2500rpm to to 360@3000rpm
then climbs to 445@3750 then peaks at 4500rpm. Other modified vipers that were dynoed there seemed to have a smooth upward increase in torque but mine looks like a snake(sideways S pattern) instead of a rainbow.

 

[FUSCUCLA1]

Whats the difference if the pull is in 3rd or 4th. My pull was done in 3rd when I got 370 and 432. Anyone know what it woul dbe if done in 4th???

 

[MW]

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<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by MW on 07-13-2002 at 04:26 AM</font>

 

[Tom Welch]

Dyno Pulls need to be done in 4th gear as 4th gear is the 1 to 1 ratio in the Viper.

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[treynor]

OK, a few thoughts --
Your RWHP is actually about right at this point -- '00-'02 cars don't pick up as much peak HP as earlier models when you do intake / exhaust mods. My '01 RT in a similar state of modification (minus the T&D rockers) made 438 RWHP. However, your torque is definitely down from where I'd expect -- typical is 475 - 485 RWTQ at around 4200 RPM.

Questions:
1) What coolant temp are you running (a) before the dyno pull and (b) right after the dyno pull ?
2) What air/fuel are you seeing throughout the pull?
3) Did you upgrade lifters, pushrods and valve springs when you had the T&Ds installed?

If you have a dyno sheet, please scan & post it. If you can't, email me and I'll do it for you.

 

[fast?]

My temperature was about 190-200. I upgraded my pushrods when I did my t&d . i can fax my dyno #s since my scanner is not responding to my new computer if anyone can post it for me. Some people told me that maybe my 1 3/4 bb headers may be too big and that a little back pressure might help. Any thoughts???? Should i have gone with the 1 5/8 ? Should I try putting on my oval free flow cats instead of running catless?? I also ordered the vec from Roe racing since he thought my car maybe running lean at the bottom end after he saw my dyno sheet.

Went to the track last night and my times seem to be the same with the stock throttle bodies instead of the 70mm ones.
i can't seem to get better tha 2.2 60 ft times(stock tires) , any suggestions? I launching at about 1700 to 1800 rpm (1500 and the car bogs out of the gate).

 

[MW]

FORGET the street tires if interested in decent & consistent 0-60's (each -0.1 of 0-60ft can at least double on the qtr timeslip!)
&gt;1.80 0-60, 11.7/120 w/ BFG drags, 2500 leave, Borla muffs,k&N's ONLY mods. GOOD LUCK!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by trent:
maybe my 1 3/4 bb headers may be too big and that a little back pressure might help.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That and the 70TBs were my thoughts at the top of the thread. But I haven't done any mods to my Vipers so I'm just guessing. If true then you might need to do some head work or even more cam to optimize the 1 3/4 headers. It might be cheaper to cut your losses and get some 1 5/8.

 

[fast?]

MW what types of rims(sizes and from where?) u running with th bf drags? Are purners the only 16" rim available to put drag tires on? Do you have to put skinnies in front if you put drags in back?
Chuck thats a big amount of money to eat. If the headers are too big I think i'm better waiting and getting some new heads/cams and doing the intake.
Should I try putting on my hi-flo cats for a little back pressure or should i not waste my time? It doesnt make sense to me that cats would give me more torque.
I got the vec1 maybe correcting the air/fuel will get me to where i should be. I hope it does.

 

[MW]

Trent, sorry for delay in reply.

I just use the 315-35/17 BFG drag RADIALs on rear & stock tires on front at max psi. We use a set of 10" front Viper wheels on the rear for the 315 BFGs tires(the 13inch wide stock rear wheels are too wide for the 315's).
The combo rule is for safety/handling just don't use the radials on the front with bias tires on the rear.

Thank, good luck. MW

 

[treynor]

&gt; Your dyno numbers are right on for a creampuff[...]

Actually, they're not. His torque is way down (-35 ft/lbs) from typical readings -- see my dyno results, or SoCal's for an example of more typical results for a '00+ car.

 

[DSSX]

SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG, I have a stock 2000 rt/10 and in 70 degree weather did 436 rwhp and 481 rwtq and 4 months later in 100 degree weather did 436 rwhp and 469 rwtq,