Monday we find out who is faster at Laguna Seca, ZR1 or Gen V

[ViperSmith]

Why else?

TO. SELL. MAGAZINES.

They, like the post office, are getting killed thanks to the internet. If there's a juicy enough story to write, they will write it, publish it and sell it. You really think a story about a 2013 Caravan is going to entice someone to buy a copy? NO. Otherwise this thread wouldn't be 20 pages long!

--RS

No, I meant SRT. I get why MT does it.

Then again, SRT may not be worried at all and this is all a ploy lol

 

[Kala]

Forget Evan Smith, we need 1BADGTS. Where's he at? Someone light up the sphincter signal and let's get him in here.

Tony I guess I'm the only one who thought this was hysterically funny... Cudo's to you for bringing some light and humour to this thread.


For the rest of you... Relax... at the end of the day we are talking about 2 great American Cars! That have been battling back and forth for years... The Manufacturer horsepower war has been awesome. We are unlikely to see anything like it in the future with the CAFE standards.

Ralph has always put his $ where his mouth is... I'm confident that we are about to see a whole new battle at Laguna...

For me... I'm going to sit back and enjoy the show.

 

[bcmarly]

The funny part is - all this talk of "the ACR not being legal at the Ring" - even if the GTS beat the ZR1 at Laguna and set a record, you'd have people say it wasn't legitimate because it wasn't a factory car, lmao.

Which I guess begs the question - why they even did it at all. But, I am satisfied with the results, even if others aren't - though I think it can do much better.

I guess SRT and viper nation would prefer that it be the other party making the excuses.

 

[bcmarly]

Because there is a white Gen 5 GTS in here:

http://blog.chryslerllc.com/blog.do?id=1990&p=entry

Maybe Ralph is getting involved building his own car. He did say he was ordering a white GTS.

 

[DMan]

Maybe Ralph is getting involved building his own car. He did say he was ordering a white GTS.

Are those red seatbelts??

 

[PDCjonny]

Well if they are assembling the cars now they sure as hell aren't tweaking them anymore as some have suggested.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Are those red seatbelts??

Yes, its an option, about $350 if I recall.

 

[hou99gts]

It's too bad Bravo didn't have the foresight to tape this drama, it would have been much better than all the "Housewives" shows they have on now....

Anyone who is fortunate enough to own a Viper (currently or will be getting a Gen V) or Vette ZR1 should be happy to own one, period! Go drive it instead of reading this thread.

 

[PDCjonny]

It's winter here, we have nothing else to do.

 

[RC000E]

^ Exactly!

 

[RC000E]

I personally would not trust one on the track. Its a great bang for the buck but until I see them personally being driven like I drive and survive, I wont get one. The car is worthy of a forged motor.

All I can tell you is experience from having owned them and raced with tons of them. The cars are incredibly fast for the dollar. I've been to world tribute Corvette events and I've never seen a Z06 lose an engine at the track...not ever. I only saw one Viper lose an engine at a track event, and there were representatives from the manufacturer there that immediately said he was covered. Nice to see, but certainly the pressure of being in front of tons of Viper owners...I don't think they were about to NOT warranty it...lol. I've seen drivers that were less than capable be very fast in a Corvette. Active handling and the forgivable nature of how they drive...hard car to not be fast in...just sayin. I like Vipers and Vettes...both great cars in their own respect.

 

[BlknBlu]

Most people are Viper Fanatics on this site...............till they lose

Bruce

 

[1badacr]

All I can tell you is experience from having owned them and raced with tons of them. The cars are incredibly fast for the dollar. I've been to world tribute Corvette events and I've never seen a Z06 lose an engine at the track...not ever. I only saw one Viper lose an engine at a track event, and there were representatives from the manufacturer there that immediately said he was covered. Nice to see, but certainly the pressure of being in front of tons of Viper owners...I don't think they were about to NOT warranty it...lol. I've seen drivers that were less than capable be very fast in a Corvette. Active handling and the forgivable nature of how they drive...hard car to not be fast in...just sayin. I like Vipers and Vettes...both great cars in their own respect.

If you have never seen a Z06 lose an engine , track or street, that is very impressive, it's a huge problem.

 

[Stealth]

I had a C6 Z06 with headers, intake and tuning and it was fast and bullet proof. My Gen IV Viper Coupe handles better though and is also more heavy-duty. My Vette did not have the Magnetic Ride.

 

[1badacr]

This is grossly overexaggerated. There were literally thousands upon thousands of z06's built and the "tracking" of blown motors due to the valve guide issue represents maybe 1%.

Lol!, you must be a Z06 owner(I was smart enough to dump mine) your exact post (word for word 1% crap) was posted by other Z06 owners, until week after week, day after day, people's motors were popping.

Now even the most stubborn people have come to realize that it is not exaggerated in the slightest, Z owners are
Who haven't sold their cars, have had their heads done.
It is a VERY REAL significant problem.

 

[SnakeBitten]

You dont outrun one of the fastest cars on the planet with an off alignment, slower tires with a heavier luxury package. SRT needs to bring a-game. They can complain about the alignment issues or driver all day but even with all that you are not looking at a faster gts with corsas. Not going to happen.

Im curious as to why you bring this up when the Viper was only 13lbs heavier than the ZR1? I don't think that little weight was in any way responsible for that 2.1 sec beatdown. Tires and maybe brakes but not the weight. SRT also said the GTS is the faster of the two Vipers because of the GTS suspension so I think they sent the right package that matched up best with the ZR1, but with the wrong tires. What would be the point of sending the bare bones SRT to beat a full fledged GT car? It would prove really nothing. I like the apples to apples GTS vs ZR1. I like the fact that the Vipers weight is comparable to the ZR1's since they are both in GT trim. Give the SRT better tires and address the brakes and the GTS should beat the ZR1 imho.

 

[msp282]

i had a 2008 Z06 that i bought new and beat the piss out of... i saw 193 on the speedo, took it drag racing, burned through the back tires and had no issues at all. I sold mine with about 8k miles on it due to divorce but zero problems...... it's handling was not spectacular on the run flats and factory alignment but otherwise a great car.

Lol!, you must be a Z06 owner(I was smart enough to dump mine) your exact post (word for word 1% crap) was posted by other Z06 owners, until week after week, day after day, people's motors were popping.

Now even the most stubborn people have come to realize that it is not exaggerated in the slightest, Z owners are
Who haven't sold their cars, have had their heads done.
It is a VERY REAL significant problem.

 

[ACRucrazy]

I am pretty sure this go kart beat the ACR, GTS and ZR1 LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=YkrNv481QxQ&feature=endscreen

 

[JohnnyLightning]

Well good news is the Viper beat he ZL1 Camaro and Boss 302 Laguna Edition so be proud.

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

I get what Ray is saying and how he feels. A lot of people here think this is just a performance issue, we got beat by a Vette, etc. It is not. It is a lack of communication issue.

Everybody wants to know their car is at the top of the performance list. But, that is not as important to a lot of us as the following and how SRT has handled the Viper in general.

We asked for performance figures......silence.

We have asked about both Gen 4 and Gen 5 computer upgrades and modifications.....silence.

Questions about Gen 3 and Gen 4 window regulators being defective....silence.

We're all big boys here, when a question is asked, then an answer should follow. If the answer is confidential and cannot be given, then at least say so, we can handle it. But just giving us the silent treatment is bull....if you want our money, it's a two way street. So when we're told to wait and see how great this new Gen 5 will be, we expect it to be at least a little better performance-wise than a Gen 4. Rumors on this forum claim that SRT, Ralph, etc. said the new Gen 5 is a faster track car than a Gen 4 ACR. If this was not true, why didn't SRT silence or clarify this? Since we don't have any performance figures (again, silence from SRT), when the numbers do come out people are pissed because they have made assumptions....and we know where that can get you.

A few of my friends that have the means to write a check for a new Gen 5 won't even consider it because they claim not being able to mod the car (via the computer) like others (Ford GT, GTR, Vette, R8, Porsche, etc) diminishes the resale value of the vehicle down the road. They realize that many people that buy this type of car are gearheads that like to mod their cars for various reasons.
I haven't even gotten inside my motor and I've spent thousands on suspension, transmission, rear end, wheels, exhaust, intake, Mopar PCM, etc. Guys with Ford GTs, Vettes, etc can easily spend $50k or more on different performance upgrades very quickly....at the Gen V's performance potential, it would be an obvious car for this market yet a large market share won't even consider it due to lack of information and silence.

So now you have a well respected driver who claims the car is not sorted out. Do I believe him?...yes. If SRT is not ready to put a Viper in a test, they should say so. If the car needs more work, they should say so. If panels are harder to get straight and delay the cars availability, say so. There is no shame in taking the time to make a product correct. It actually makes a buyer appreciate his car more knowing the difficulties the manufacturer had and the steps they went through to make sure the car is as perfect as it can be. It also builds a storyline into the cars legend and what it took to make it as awesome as it is. Everybody knows there will be problems....it's how they are handled that keeps the Viper owner loyal.

This whole damn thread discussion would pretty much be null and void if SRT had released performance numbers so we would know what to expect. Getting embarrassed by a Vette with very little aero, smaller tires (although obviously much better grip), and identical hp is not what the blind sheep were expecting. This could have all been avoided....but instead we got silence.

Congrats to the ZR1 on the new record, that is a pretty damn impressive number considering the car has no crazy aero aids.

George

George, SRT got what they deserved as I am still pi$$ed about the window regulator. I had said this before on a few threads that the Vette is not to be taken lightly.....quite simply SRT introduced a car that was far from dialed in. I submitted a wish list to SRT 2 years ago when they were fielding comments from us Viper guys and they did not listen to one thing especially the brakes....14 inch rotors come on...just take a look at the GTR or ZR1 rotors...these are things of beauty.....I'm out.

 

[kyleblix]

God does that cart video look fun!

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

Bluestreak, so basically you think Viper owners do not run their cars at the limits? Okay so let's forget the track for a minute. Let's just say a GTR, Z06, ZR1, GT500 (all stock by the way although ALL of these car are super easily modified) etc. etc. rolls up on you at a light and you have to worry for a second about losing? That is not good when you just dropped almost $150K.

A GTR will beat all of the above on the street light to light.......no ifs and or buts about it.

 

[madninjaskillz]

Could be wrong but I think he was referring to the ERMAHGERD SPEAKERZ AND LETHERZ option that adds unnecessary weight to the Viper. He wasn't talking about weight in relation to the Vette; even though ipso facto it's all related.

Im curious as to why you bring this up when the Viper was only 13lbs heavier than the ZR1? I don't think that little weight was in any way responsible for that 2.1 sec beatdown. Tires and maybe brakes but not the weight. SRT also said the GTS is the faster of the two Vipers because of the GTS suspension so I think they sent the right package that matched up best with the ZR1, but with the wrong tires. What would be the point of sending the bare bones SRT to beat a full fledged GT car? It would prove really nothing. I like the apples to apples GTS vs ZR1. I like the fact that the Vipers weight is comparable to the ZR1's since they are both in GT trim. Give the SRT better tires and address the brakes and the GTS should beat the ZR1 imho.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

can you imagine if the Viper DID beat the ZR1 after all the money GM has put into their racing program over the years? Many heads would roll at Chevy if that happened. Give Ralph and SRT a little time. Their down but not out.

AWD Charger now available now. Things that make you go Hmmmmmm.

 

[bluestreak]

Im curious as to why you bring this up when the Viper was only 13lbs heavier than the ZR1? I don't think that little weight was in any way responsible for that 2.1 sec beatdown. Tires and maybe brakes but not the weight. SRT also said the GTS is the faster of the two Vipers because of the GTS suspension so I think they sent the right package that matched up best with the ZR1, but with the wrong tires. What would be the point of sending the bare bones SRT to beat a full fledged GT car? It would prove really nothing. I like the apples to apples GTS vs ZR1. I like the fact that the Vipers weight is comparable to the ZR1's since they are both in GT trim. Give the SRT better tires and address the brakes and the GTS should beat the ZR1 imho.

because its not the weight relative to the zr1 thats important. The zr1 has its own advantages. A lighter viper brakes better for longer and corners better. I doubt stiffer spring rates are helping in this case. Softer spring rates are fine for street tires on a green track. Would havelikely reduced some understeer and oversteer pending rates. You can buy all the propaganda you want , but at the end of the day it didnt work as planned.

 

[Bobpantax]

And now a brief intermission brought to you by the incompetent people in the Capital Building and the White House. The result of the House not voting on Plan B and nervousness about the process. I cannot remember a time of such incredible incompetence. Now we return to the mass debate going on over the very important subject of a Motor Trend test of two cars..

Stock Futures

Americas

DJIA INDEX	Mar13	13,075.00	-192.00	13,247.00	13,247.00	12,996.00	00:05:21
S&P 500	Mar13	1,418.20	-22.40	1,440.50	1,441.20	1,391.70	00:07:43
NASDAQ 100	Mar13	2,647.75	-42.25	2,687.50	2,688.00	2,637.25	00:05:21
S&P/TSX 60 IX	Mar13	712.50	+0.70	710.30	712.00	707.80	17:10:05
MEX BOLSA IDX	Mar13	43,974.00	-91.00	43,900.00	44,205.00	43,900.00	17:34:44
BOVESPA INDEX	Feb13	61,761.00	+276.00	61,280.00	61,860.00	61,065.00	15:01:23

 

[ViperSmith]

And now a brief intermission brought to you by the incompetent people in the Capital Building and the White House. The result of the House not voting on Plan B and nervousness about the process. I cannot remember a time of such incredible incompetence. Now we return to the mass debate going on over the very important subject of a Motor Trend test of two cars..

Stock Futures

Americas

DJIA INDEX	Mar13	13,075.00	-192.00	13,247.00	13,247.00	12,996.00	00:05:21
S&P 500	Mar13	1,418.20	-22.40	1,440.50	1,441.20	1,391.70	00:07:43
NASDAQ 100	Mar13	2,647.75	-42.25	2,687.50	2,688.00	2,637.25	00:05:21
S&P/TSX 60 IX	Mar13	712.50	+0.70	710.30	712.00	707.80	17:10:05
MEX BOLSA IDX	Mar13	43,974.00	-91.00	43,900.00	44,205.00	43,900.00	17:34:44
BOVESPA INDEX	Feb13	61,761.00	+276.00	61,280.00	61,860.00	61,065.00	15:01:23

it is all a shell game, they all will agree on something - and both sides will claim victory.

guess i should hold on to my ultra-short ETFs

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

I would love for it to be just a tire issue. As mentioned 2 secs is well within the range that a tire upgrade can improve on.

I've been thinking. (proof the world is coming to an end lol). If SRT, as Ralph stated, tested the GTS on the Corsa's vs a similarly equipped ZR1 as in MT's test for 2 years and the gap wasn't 2 secs that may say a whole lot. If the Vipers performance on Corsa's was the ZR1's match on its mpsc's in SRT's testing then you know what that means if they were to put an equal tire on the Viper. It does make you wonder why they didn't just put the equivalent of the mpsc and call it a day. This seeming embarrassment wouldn't have happened.


Maybe we should all let our emotions settle a bit and wait and see how this plays out.

Btw doctor it's a public forum. Its not your call on who should br allowed to post. Feel free to put us non owners on ignore if you wish.

I agree with you and I have a Viper. i appreciate your comments also.

 

[bushido]

Anyone know when the video is going to be out?

 

[SnakeBitten]

because its not the weight relative to the zr1 thats important. The zr1 has its own advantages. A lighter viper brakes better for longer and corners better. I doubt stiffer spring rates are helping in this case. Softer spring rates are fine for street tires on a green track. Would havelikely reduced some understeer and oversteer pending rates. You can buy all the propaganda you want , but at the end of the day it didnt work as planned.

Im not buying the propaganda just seeing things for all perspectives now. I understand that less weight would be nice but look at the whole picture. The ZR1 has very similar GT car luxury equipment as the Viper but it has a lighter "aluminum frame", CCB's, carbon fiber body panels etc. Yet the Viper with its superior in strength, but heavier steel frame and heavier brake package outdoes the ZR1 in GT luxury equipment, vastly superior interior appointments, better stereo, more carbon fiber and yet ONLY comes in 13lbs heavier than the ZR1. Taking a timeout and really thinking about the overall package SRT has put out really makes you see things a bit differently.

Put equal tires on the GTS with better brake package and I'm thinking there would be a 1-2 sec swing in lap times at LS in the Vipers favor. My issue is not with all the luxury appointments etc because SRT gave the Viper a whole lot more than it ever had and yet even in GTS trim its 100lbs lighter than the last model. My issue is with Ralph and SRT knowingly letting the car out into the automotive world without the proper tires etc. They knew there was a gap in the ZR1's favor with the Viper equipped with Corsa's. Why they did this on the cars debut is beyond me and others.

The GTS is SRT's GT Viper hence the accoutrements yet after considering all the factors it has the ability to beat the ZR1 convincingly if SRT equipped it right. What SRT did was equivalent to a parent knowingly sending their kid into the cruel world with out properly equipping them for the biggest trials they will encounter IMHO.

It's clear that the dedicated track Viper will be the ACR. So you will get the lighter car, with better brakes etc to satisfy the ******** track guys such as yourself and others.

I agree with you and I have a Viper. i appreciate your comments also.

Thank you HOLLYWOOD1 and I appreciate your open mindedness.