Monday we find out who is faster at Laguna Seca, ZR1 or Gen V

[I Bin Therbefor]

I guess SRT and viper nation would prefer that it be the other party making the excuses.

Absolutely

 

[bluestreak]

Stop talking about the ZR1 for a minute........

Tire aside for a minute as well.........

The point is that the Viper is a performance car, and it's number 1 parameter is what? Performance. SRT can use all of the other umpteen billion mag articles that are going to come out on the Viper to sell the interior. This is a track and performance test against a bitter rival. So the best foot should be put forward to see that it comes out on top. Do you really think we would be having a 20 page thread of bickering if the Viper had won the performance aspect but got a not so great review on interior on a track pack car? NOOOOOOOOO people would just say, well then just order the GTS and get a better interior. In fact, they would have printed that it was an option if that is what you were looking for. Use all of these non performance articles to sell the interior and use the track tests to sell the performance. Seems very common sense to me.
Ok, now back to tires and ZR1:

You don't have to preach to me about tires, I was the first one to bring it up before the results were even posted! And the one to provide information on the difference in the two. But you are still talking about a game of inches even with the Viper on MPSC. So why not put the absolute best foot forward to try and win vs still possibly coming up short and having NO excuse at that point. The ZR1 has the PDE package (I.E. brought their A-game to battle the Viper), and SRT should be worried about interior????? What sense does that make sending a 40lbs heavier car to battle a lighter, meaner Corvette as if they didn't already know the ZR1 had a grip advantage?


There is no ACR yet. Until there is we have a Base and GTS vs a ZR1 and for right now SRT's world revolves around that one battle.

Im not buying the propaganda just seeing things for all perspectives now. I understand that less weight would be nice but look at the whole picture. The ZR1 has very similar GT car luxury equipment as the Viper but it has a lighter "aluminum frame", CCB's, carbon fiber body panels etc. Yet the Viper with its superior in strength, but heavier steel frame and heavier brake package outdoes the ZR1 in GT luxury equipment, vastly superior interior appointments, better stereo, more carbon fiber and yet ONLY comes in 13lbs heavier than the ZR1. Taking a timeout and really thinking about the overall package SRT has put out really makes you see things a bit differently.

Put equal tires on the GTS with better brake package and I'm thinking there would be a 1-2 sec swing in lap times at LS in the Vipers favor. My issue is not with all the luxury appointments etc because SRT gave the Viper a whole lot more than it ever had and yet even in GTS trim its 100lbs lighter than the last model. My issue is with Ralph and SRT knowingly letting the car out into the automotive world without the proper tires etc. They knew there was a gap in the ZR1's favor with the Viper equipped with Corsa's. Why they did this on the cars debut is beyond me and others.

The GTS is SRT's GT Viper hence the accoutrements yet after considering all the factors it has the ability to beat the ZR1 convincingly if SRT equipped it right. What SRT did was equivalent to a parent knowingly sending their kid into the cruel world with out properly equipping them for the biggest trials they will encounter IMHO.

It's clear that the dedicated track Viper will be the ACR. So you will get the lighter car, with better brakes etc to satisfy the ******** track guys such as yourself and others.




Thank you HOLLYWOOD1 and I appreciate your open mindedness.

 

[troublemaker]

I have to admit, even though this test didnt go as planned, I think SRT did what they set out to do with this car. The extreme pefomance numbers all of us were hoping for I dont think are quite as important to the new clients that they are hoping to win over. Its a nice looking car, went back to their roots as far as looks went, made it more powerful, more comfortable and allegedly easier to drive. To me they hit their mark on almost all their points, and believe the car still has better numbers in it. I am thrilled the car lived, its life expectancy was looking grim after the bankruptcy.

 

[jvp]

We veered off topic a bit since jvp was claiming the SC ZR1 is the best road racing car evar

I see your reading comprehension is that of a first grader; I said no such thing. I very clearly said the ZR1 is a better overall car than the Z06 is, on the road and on the track. I never claimed it was the "best road racing car ever". Please learn to read. It'll do you some good as you grow up.

......... I'm at the track a lot and see C6 motors lighting up quite a bit.

I sincerely doubt that. In fact I'm 100% certain you're making that up.

jas

 

[InjectTheVenom]

Most people are Viper Fanatics on this site...............till they lose

Bruce

Not this one

 

[bluestreak]

I see your reading comprehension is that of a first grader; I said no such thing. I very clearly said the ZR1 is a better overall car than the Z06 is, on the road and on the track. I never claimed it was the "best road racing car ever". Please learn to read. It'll do you some good as you grow up.



I sincerely doubt that. In fact I'm 100% certain you're making that up.

jas

Anyone who has been to the track and isn't turning a blind eye to it, has seen Ls3's and Ls7's blowing up. There is a whole thread in the road racing section on Corvette Forums about the issues with LS3's. People are blowing them up with stock oiling, accusumps and even dry sumps. One of the top Corvette amateur road racers was nearly killed when his C6 motor let go. He'd also already blown a couple of Ls3's already. Several C6's and C6Z's have blown at Road Atlanta, I know quite a few of the people personally the rest I've heard from other Corvette guys who have no reason to lie. Saw with my own eyes a guy crash his GT3 following a C6Z that blew up and dropped oil right in front of him. Matter of fact, I was just behind them in the same group. You don't know anything about me to be certain of anything. What we all know is that you don't know what you are talking about.

And now we know you are in denial..........

 

[yellowmz3]

Isn't all this "brake and tire" stuff a moot point. Ralph helped build his car already and whatever tires, brakes, and suspension are on his car will be on all the other cars for 2013. Can't any cars' performance be enhanced by changing these things out post production? If you peruse the Porsche forums, you'll notice tons of input about tire/wheel upgrades on the GT3RS and I can tell you (as a previous owner) that that's one well sorted our car.

 

[slitherv10]

Its a sad day in paradise when many people on here had comments about how great this car is going to be a few months ago. Now that "a" result is in , Bingo!, no comments on its greatness. No,...gorgeous interior,no..nice paintjob....no....great options list....lol...when I posted a few months back that the Viper was brought into this world to Perform...not enlighten us with soft leather and piower this and launch that....everyone had something negative to say. Well....here is one foot in the grave for the Viper. Hopefully there won't be many more (tests vs) or I think many of you will be joining other clubs. Its sad to say but true.
The majority of Viper owners and enthusiasts are here and own one because of small list of reasons

1. Performance numbers ie Hp and torque..1/4 mile times ..etc

2. The distinctive look and fear of the beast ( refer to number 1 above)

3. The raw creativity this car brought about in its debut (1992) ..******** package ..no air,no power this and power that...not even a roof. Yet....sold out and was raved apon but all including Motor trend. ZR1 who and Lambo and ferrari what at that time. They were not even in the same catergory. ZR1 375 Hp I believe....Viper...415 HP. Again...refer to number 1 above.

Anyway ..the point here is ..Performance numbers is what set this beast apart from the rest and the bragging rights were just that. Now, you all asked for leather and better brakes and better this and better that....and you got it...but...wait!...its not all that anymore is it? !! Were all saying that this new Viper is catering to a new market opf ppl.....hey SRT....that new market of ppl are not interested in spending 140000+ on a SRT/Dodge if I may add since its still fresh in everyones mind that dodge built and designed this car. You have Motor trend cutting up what SRT went out to improve and come out with a bang for us,...interior, paint,brakes,window regulator...lol....too funny....no windows in the original car and no complaints but now...lol..regulator....now that was important...made me a believer and buyer for sure now that it has a , what did MT call it again...stone hard seats and awkward peddle position...lol...

I told you guys and Im telling you "NEW MARKET" people....The Viper is and will always be strictly a performance looked at automobile...nothing more. It should be built on Performance and performance alone....just the way it was born and just the way it should die. Leave the luxuries to the rest of the game. They have been following and trying to catch up to us with thier comfy seats and power this and power that for decades and will continue to if we focused on what they were always focused on...Performance numbers. It would be funny to see how many of you guys out there that wanted the luxuries put on this car have actualy ordered one...I bet less than 50%. Too funny. Ill bet you if the SRT Viper came out with 750 HP and 710 Ftlbs and no luxuries..no plush leather and no launch control, or track modes and yes..sad to say...but yes...no brake upgrades...how much more enticing this car would have been. Ill bet it would have sold out before the launch....Ill bet that SRT would have hand performance numbers and tests out waaaaaayyy before order dates. Ill bet they would have thrown this car in the faces of Top Gear , Motor Trend, Car and driver and the like to let them see what Viper has become and is capable of. Let them test and compare it to the Competition. You think they would have said...oh but the interior is still awefull...lol...ya they might have, but they still did now anyway, yet,,,they would have agreed and bowed down to the holy beast that it would have been and that once again this car is untouchable and uncontrollable as it always has been and always should be. It had its iconic title of biting you if you didnt play nice...that was something people actualy liked to hear and wanted to experience. Although the reality of it, we all rushed out to buy one, everyone looked at it with fear and intimidation. Now.....now none of that. The beast has been tamed. It has been slayed. I think you "NEW MARKET" people were your own worst enemies.
There was one option and one option alone that should have been asked by SRT. The same option we asked Generation after Generation.....More POWER...More POWER. That option alone had the critics cringing. Not luxury

So much more to say,,,but,,,just got hungry

 

[Boxer12]

Be careful what you wish for, a track tire on a street car is not 'ideal.' They throw tons of rocks and debris onto the underside and rocker panels, not to mention are less useful in the rain and cold. Anyone who has Pirellis on their sports car knows they ride much better (smoother and quieter) and handle all conditions except track events better than the Michelin. I would not want Michelins on my GTS.

Let me also say this, neither the GTS or the ZR1 are track cars, any more than a stock GT-R or GT2. Whenever someone shows up with a stock street car, even these great cars, at the track events I have been to, they leave early with their tail between their legs. It is no match for an ACR shod with Hoosiers. The Z06 is a better platform for a track car, mainly due to the fact that all four corners will have to be rebuilt and aero added anyway, so why spend the money on a ZR1 which WILL get heat soaked. The Vette guys respect the Viper at the track mainly because the ACR is so 'track ready' compared to the Vettes. They are wishing for something like it, and the ZR1 isn't that.

The bottom line is this..IMO...when you and your buddy with the ZR1 go to the track to see who's fastest, it will come down to the driver. You can count on it. Its the same now with built Vette's versus Vipers. Look at NARRA results. Just my 2c.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Stop talking about the ZR1 for a minute........

Tire aside for a minute as well.........

The point is that the Viper is a performance car, and it's number 1 parameter is what? Performance. SRT can use all of the other umpteen billion mag articles that are going to come out on the Viper to sell the interior. This is a track and performance test against a bitter rival. So the best foot should be put forward to see that it comes out on top. Do you really think we would be having a 20 page thread of bickering if the Viper had won the performance aspect but got a not so great review on interior on a track pack car? NOOOOOOOOO people would just say, well then just order the GTS and get a better interior. In fact, they would have printed that it was an option if that is what you were looking for. Use all of these non performance articles to sell the interior and use the track tests to sell the performance. Seems very common sense to me.
Ok, now back to tires and ZR1:

You don't have to preach to me about tires, I was the first one to bring it up before the results were even posted! And the one to provide information on the difference in the two. But you are still talking about a game of inches even with the Viper on MPSC. So why not put the absolute best foot forward to try and win vs still possibly coming up short and having NO excuse at that point. The ZR1 has the PDE package (I.E. brought their A-game to battle the Viper), and SRT should be worried about interior????? What sense does that make sending a 40lbs heavier car to battle a lighter, meaner Corvette as if they didn't already know the ZR1 had a grip advantage?


There is no ACR yet. Until there is we have a Base and GTS vs a ZR1 and for right now SRT's world revolves around that one battle.

First off you got my post wrong. I wasn't preaching to you about anything just restating what you and others have said about the tires and brakes. That's it. Im not attacking you or trying to win an argument just figuring things out from various perspectives mixed with known facts. Using logic and gathering the info posted in this thread from those more knowledgeable than I on the tire subject, I see that its most likely just a tire change and brake tweak away from the test results being turned on its head as. IMHO I just disagree with you on the Vipers weight being any significant factor in its 2 sec loss to the ZR1. In this particular instance I think you and others intially hit the nail on the head with the tire issue and then later according to the article the brake issue.

I think SRT figured Pobst would have gotten the spread the same or close as they did in there own testing which may have been .5 or less difference in lap times favoring the ZR1. Then everyone would be like WOW..On an inferior tire the Viper almost got the win just imagine if it had equal rubber blah blah blah. Stupid thinking imho if that is what they had in mind. Its the cars debut on the worlds stage and it should have been equipped to beat down the ZR1 not tie or barely lose to it. That is the fundamental flaw in thinking and execution I blame SRT and Ralph for. I cant imagine a good reason to send the Viper out outfitted like they did. I think we are basically along the same line of reasoning on most of this but its my opinion that they could have beaten the ZR1 if they wanted to. For some reason they were content with a close loss but instead got there butts kicked.

I read they are already building Vipers so I guess its too late for a tire/brake change for the 2013's.

 

[Viper Grenade]

Most of these idiots don't get it. A viper is a one sided car. Beats the comp by pounding with relentless performance.

SRT Viper = 911 wanna be

Dodge Viper = King of The Track.

Give the car 750hp, ditch the fancy crap and let the Vipers Venom flow....or just let it die. As far as I can tell, Viper started to die in '03 (as it was nothing like the GTS-R concept we all liked). 2013 SRT Viper is NOT a Dodge Viper at all.

My 2013 order was cancelled because its not a viper anymore.

 

[Viper Grenade]

Forgot to add...it's bad, when Viper guys don't even like it.

 

[DMan]

Most of these idiots don't get it. A viper is a one sided car. Beats the comp by pounding with relentless performance.

SRT Viper = 911 wanna be

Dodge Viper = King of The Track.

Give the car 750hp, ditch the fancy crap and let the Vipers Venom flow....or just let it die. As far as I can tell, Viper started to die in '03 (as it was nothing like the GTS-R concept we all liked). 2013 SRT Viper is NOT a Dodge Viper at all.

My 2013 order was cancelled because its not a viper anymore.

Weird timing, you cancelled because the MT article convinced you the gen5 is no longer a viper ... but you felt the demise started a decade ago. Sorry, but you're trying way too hard, dude. So 7 model yrs after you felt the viper was in its death throws, it set the 'ring record. Man this thread is bringing out some craziness. I need an extra arm, this requires a tripple face palm.

 

[bluestreak]

i agree with that, I think you and I have mostly been on the same page throughout this thread. What I'm coming to realize is that SRT did not aim the GTS or Track Pack at the ZR1, which makes sense if they plan on adding the ACR. It will annoy the Viper faithful short term but why would they need to use all of their bullets now. The ZR1 is the biggest bullet GM has and SRT clearly has not shown all of it's cards yet. What people fail to realize, is that there is going to be a tapering off in performance. Crying for beating the ZR1 by 2 seconds nonsense is borderline asinine. When the ACR comes out and wipes the floor with everything again, ALL OF THIS WILL BE FORGOTTEN!!

I hope they know what they are doing though because magazines sell cars now, probably as much as racing does.

First off you got my post wrong. I wasn't preaching to you about anything just restating what you and others have said about the tires and brakes. That's it. Im not attacking you or trying to win an argument just figuring things out from various perspectives mixed with known facts. Using logic and gathering the info posted in this thread from those more knowledgeable than I on the tire subject, I see that its most likely just a tire change and brake tweak away from the test results being turned on its head as. IMHO I just disagree with you on the Vipers weight being any significant factor in its 2 sec loss to the ZR1. In this particular instance I think you and others intially hit the nail on the head with the tire issue and then later according to the article the brake issue.

I think SRT figured Pobst would have gotten the spread the same or close as they did in there own testing which may have been .5 or less difference in lap times favoring the ZR1. Then everyone would be like WOW..On an inferior tire the Viper almost got the win just imagine if it had equal rubber blah blah blah. Stupid thinking imho if that is what they had in mind. Its the cars debut on the worlds stage and it should have been equipped to beat down the ZR1 not tie or barely lose to it. That is the fundamental flaw in thinking and execution I blame SRT and Ralph for. I cant imagine a good reason to send the Viper out outfitted like they did. I think we are basically along the same line of reasoning on most of this but its my opinion that they could have beaten the ZR1 if they wanted to. For some reason they were content with a close loss but instead got there butts kicked.

I read they are already building Vipers so I guess its too late for a tire/brake change for the 2013's.

Yes the Pirellis are a far better street tire. But this is a "track pack" setup with regards to wheels and tires so I guess people expect some sacrifice to be made.

As for MPSC, they are fast enough on a Gen IV ACR to beat 99% of the cars that you would ever see at a DE. For a street car, nothing short of race Corvettes, Porsche Cups or 700+ hp GT-R's is going to be able to outrun you. MPSC are super sticky tires, probably the stickiest of treaded R-compound tires (until we get more feedback on the Trofeo R). Grow your driving skill to match the car and you'll run near 2:00 at VIR or 1:48 at TWS. You may laugh, but there are several Porsche GT3 drivers that can come within a second or 2 of the pro guys. Do that in an ACR and you'll smoke most everybody, BONE STOCK. When the race cars show up, slap on your other wheels with Hoosiers and go get em.

I agree that it will be a drivers race, pretty much every time at DE it comes down to which driver lets the car down the LEAST.

Be careful what you wish for, a track tire on a street car is not 'ideal.' They throw tons of rocks and debris onto the underside and rocker panels, not to mention are less useful in the rain and cold. Anyone who has Pirellis on their sports car knows they ride much better (smoother and quieter) and handle all conditions except track events better than the Michelin. I would not want Michelins on my GTS.

Let me also say this, neither the GTS or the ZR1 are track cars, any more than a stock GT-R or GT2. Whenever someone shows up with a stock street car, even these great cars, at the track events I have been to, they leave early with their tail between their legs. It is no match for an ACR shod with Hoosiers. The Z06 is a better platform for a track car, mainly due to the fact that all four corners will have to be rebuilt and aero added anyway, so why spend the money on a ZR1 which WILL get heat soaked. The Vette guys respect the Viper at the track mainly because the ACR is so 'track ready' compared to the Vettes. They are wishing for something like it, and the ZR1 isn't that.

The bottom line is this..IMO...when you and your buddy with the ZR1 go to the track to see who's fastest, it will come down to the driver. You can count on it. Its the same now with built Vette's versus Vipers. Look at NARRA results. Just my 2c.

 

[Bobpantax]

In reviewing this thread, one thing is for certain. I am glad that most posters are not in charge of drug trials. One test where the mechanical set up of both vehicles may have not been equal ( see post concerning Probst's rear tire/wheel toe in observation regarding the Viper) producing limited data and strong opinions have been formed. From my point of view to form any solid opinion on such slim data is inconsistent with a reasoned approach to the subject matter. It seems to me that the MT test is being used by some who have posted to provide an excuse for cancelling a purchase that they may have been nervous about to begin with due to the state of our economy. Why not just be honest and admit it. There is no shame in being prudent in the face of uncertainty.

 

[Dom426h]

I agree with DMan... Viper Grenade is:

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Dom426h]

Be careful what you wish for, a track tire on a street car is not 'ideal.' They throw tons of rocks and debris onto the underside and rocker panels, not to mention are less useful in the rain and cold. Anyone who has Pirellis on their sports car knows they ride much better (smoother and quieter) and handle all conditions except track events better than the Michelin. I would not want Michelins on my GTS.

Let me also say this, neither the GTS or the ZR1 are track cars, any more than a stock GT-R or GT2. Whenever someone shows up with a stock street car, even these great cars, at the track events I have been to, they leave early with their tail between their legs. It is no match for an ACR shod with Hoosiers. The Z06 is a better platform for a track car, mainly due to the fact that all four corners will have to be rebuilt and aero added anyway, so why spend the money on a ZR1 which WILL get heat soaked. The Vette guys respect the Viper at the track mainly because the ACR is so 'track ready' compared to the Vettes. They are wishing for something like it, and the ZR1 isn't that.

The bottom line is this..IMO...when you and your buddy with the ZR1 go to the track to see who's fastest, it will come down to the driver. You can count on it. Its the same now with built Vette's versus Vipers. Look at NARRA results. Just my 2c.

Well said on your entire post Boxer. and Great point on the part i highlighted in red(i never thought of it like that...).

 

[Ray W]

Its a sad day in paradise when many people on here had comments about how great this car is going to be a few months ago. Now that "a" result is in , Bingo!, no comments on its greatness. No,...gorgeous interior,no..nice paintjob....no....great options list....lol...when I posted a few months back that the Viper was brought into this world to Perform...not enlighten us with soft leather and piower this and launch that....everyone had something negative to say. Well....here is one foot in the grave for the Viper. Hopefully there won't be many more (tests vs) or I think many of you will be joining other clubs. Its sad to say but true.
The majority of Viper owners and enthusiasts are here and own one because of small list of reasons



1. Performance numbers ie Hp and torque..1/4 mile times ..etc

2. The distinctive look and fear of the beast ( refer to number 1 above)

3. The raw creativity this car brought about in its debut (1992) ..******** package ..no air,no power this and power that...not even a roof. Yet....sold out and was raved apon but all including Motor trend. ZR1 who and Lambo and ferrari what at that time. They were not even in the same catergory. ZR1 375 Hp I believe....Viper...415 HP. Again...refer to number 1 above.

Anyway ..the point here is ..Performance numbers is what set this beast apart from the rest and the bragging rights were just that. Now, you all asked for leather and better brakes and better this and better that....and you got it...but...wait!...its not all that anymore is it? !! Were all saying that this new Viper is catering to a new market opf ppl.....hey SRT....that new market of ppl are not interested in spending 140000+ on a SRT/Dodge if I may add since its still fresh in everyones mind that dodge built and designed this car. You have Motor trend cutting up what SRT went out to improve and come out with a bang for us,...interior, paint,brakes,window regulator...lol....too funny....no windows in the original car and no complaints but now...lol..regulator....now that was important...made me a believer and buyer for sure now that it has a , what did MT call it again...stone hard seats and awkward peddle position...lol...

I told you guys and Im telling you "NEW MARKET" people....The Viper is and will always be strictly a performance looked at automobile...nothing more. It should be built on Performance and performance alone....just the way it was born and just the way it should die. Leave the luxuries to the rest of the game. They have been following and trying to catch up to us with thier comfy seats and power this and power that for decades and will continue to if we focused on what they were always focused on...Performance numbers. It would be funny to see how many of you guys out there that wanted the luxuries put on this car have actualy ordered one...I bet less than 50%. Too funny. Ill bet you if the SRT Viper came out with 750 HP and 710 Ftlbs and no luxuries..no plush leather and no launch control, or track modes and yes..sad to say...but yes...no brake upgrades...how much more enticing this car would have been. Ill bet it would have sold out before the launch....Ill bet that SRT would have hand performance numbers and tests out waaaaaayyy before order dates. Ill bet they would have thrown this car in the faces of Top Gear , Motor Trend, Car and driver and the like to let them see what Viper has become and is capable of. Let them test and compare it to the Competition. You think they would have said...oh but the interior is still awefull...lol...ya they might have, but they still did now anyway, yet,,,they would have agreed and bowed down to the holy beast that it would have been and that once again this car is untouchable and uncontrollable as it always has been and always should be. It had its iconic title of biting you if you didnt play nice...that was something people actualy liked to hear and wanted to experience. Although the reality of it, we all rushed out to buy one, everyone looked at it with fear and intimidation. Now.....now none of that. The beast has been tamed. It has been slayed. I think you "NEW MARKET" people were your own worst enemies.
There was one option and one option alone that should have been asked by SRT. The same option we asked Generation after Generation.....More POWER...More POWER. That option alone had the critics cringing. Not luxury

So much more to say,,,but,,,just got hungry

Slitherv10 - Voted best response for Viper Owners.

Since when do we wear gloves to a bare knuckle fight?

 

[ACRucrazy]

Getting back to the topic at hand...

I think the '13 is capable of a 1:32.xx at Laguna Seca

Flame away.

 

[ViperSmith]

I am sure all of these cute opinions of people that were "on the fence" outweighs the extensive market research which SRT did before building the Viper.

Being one of these apparently looked down upon "new market" folks - ones that want a stupidly fast, extremely high horse power car that also has a beautiful, well appointed interior - I find it amusing. Especially when everyone uses a configuration of the most expensive vehicle with every option checked as the price point.

The Viper simply couldn't compete in the market and be profitable as it was, it needed to evolve. Seeing as the GTS with upgraded interiors has been selling 2:1, apparently people do want a more plush vehicle. But, lets not let reality get in the way of opinions.

 

[bluestreak]

Getting back to the topic at hand...

I think the '13 is capable of a 1:32.xx at Laguna Seca

Flame away.

Not on Corsas it's not IMO, unless it's an ACR you are referring to. On MPSC or Trofeo R's is even a stretch.

 

[Ray W]

I am sure all of these cute opinions of people that were "on the fence" outweighs the extensive market research which SRT did before building the Viper.

Being one of these apparently looked down upon "new market" folks - ones that want a stupidly fast, extremely high horse power car that also has a beautiful, well appointed interior - I find it amusing. Especially when everyone uses a configuration of the most expensive vehicle with every option checked as the price point.

The Viper simply couldn't compete in the market and be profitable as it was, it needed to evolve. Seeing as the GTS with upgraded interiors has been selling 2:1, apparently people do want a more plush vehicle. But, lets not let reality get in the way of opinions.

Isn't your response opinion as well? Three years from now the market decisions of today will prove out or not. Respectfully.

 

[ViperSmith]

Isn't your response opinion as well? Three years from now the market decisions of today will prove out or not. Respectfully.

Very much so, and in three years we will know the answer. Hell, in one year we will have a good idea.

 

[stingray23]

Most of these idiots don't get it. A viper is a one sided car. Beats the comp by pounding with relentless performance.

SRT Viper = 911 wanna be

Dodge Viper = King of The Track.

Give the car 750hp, ditch the fancy crap and let the Vipers Venom flow....or just let it die. As far as I can tell, Viper started to die in '03 (as it was nothing like the GTS-R concept we all liked). 2013 SRT Viper is NOT a Dodge Viper at all.

My 2013 order was cancelled because its not a viper anymore.

We are now all a little dumber for reading this.

 

[Viper Grenade]

Weird timing, you cancelled because the MT article convinced you the gen5 is no longer a viper ... but you felt the demise started a decade ago. Sorry, but you're trying way too hard, dude. So 7 model yrs after you felt the viper was in its death throws, it set the 'ring record. Man this thread is bringing out some craziness. I need an extra arm, this requires a tripple face palm.

Good thing you have three hands, now make them into fists and plug your three holes, your spewing sewage.

G1= bone crusher bare nuckled street brawler...with damn good looks.
G2 = keept being better and still a brute crushing damn near everyone one.
G3 = failure, hardly faster than G2 and vette closes gap....happen to looking too much like a S2000 to boot. Got a bit soft.

G4-ACR = What Gen 3 should have been from the start. But still looked like a ricer S2000. But we cut it some slack based on performance.

G5 = total failure...so far.

I have owned G1-G4. I still keep my G1 and G2-TT.

 

[Bobpantax]

Then why not spring for a few bucks and join the VCA? The benefit of the magazine and the parts discount available for VCA members from VCA sponsors more than pay for the membership fee. Then get active in your chapter. You can play a role in shaping the future of the Viper. Many have.

Good thing you have three hands, now make them into fists and plug your three holes, your spewing sewage.

G1= bone crusher bare nuckled street brawler...with damn good looks.
G2 = keept being better and still a brute crushing damn near everyone one.
G3 = failure, hardly faster than G2 and vette closes gap....happen to looking too much like a S2000 to boot. Got a bit soft.

G4-ACR = What Gen 3 should have been from the start. But still looked like a ricer S2000. But we cut it some slack based on performance.

G5 = total failure...so far.

I have owned G1-G4. I still keep my G1 and G2-TT.

 

[tbsviper]

Yawn, is there any thing left to say? Guess I will now have to read the original article.

 

[SnakeBitten]

i agree with that, I think you and I have mostly been on the same page throughout this thread. What I'm coming to realize is that SRT did not aim the GTS or Track Pack at the ZR1, which makes sense if they plan on adding the ACR. It will annoy the Viper faithful short term but why would they need to use all of their bullets now. The ZR1 is the biggest bullet GM has and SRT clearly has not shown all of it's cards yet. What people fail to realize, is that there is going to be a tapering off in performance. Crying for beating the ZR1 by 2 seconds nonsense is borderline asinine. When the ACR comes out and wipes the floor with everything again, ALL OF THIS WILL BE FORGOTTEN!!

I hope they know what they are doing though because magazines sell cars now, probably as much as racing does.

Yeah as much as many here may not want to believe it, a bad mag article does affect the masses perception of a car and ultimately affect sales. Just look at the many articles that refer to the Viper an not a good handling car even after it wiped the floor with its test mates. The masses believed that mess. Most people rely on all the forms of media to form their opinion on, toothpaste, political views etc so way would it be any different with car choice. Most wont try a car for themselves they will just go along with what the uninformed majority or media says. This is why its puzzling to a lot of us what SRT allowed to happen with this test.

Anyway what it your thought on the GTS being the ZR1 rival as opposed to the ACR? I personally dont think the ACR should even be mentioned with these two. Imho the upcoming ACR, just like the last beast, is in a different category than the ZR1 and GTS. The ACR is more akin to the Porsche GT2 RS/GT3 category of car than it is to a GT class car like the ZR1 and the new Viper GTS. These kind of car are not real race cars but they are way more focused for track than either GTS or ZR1. So why would SRT not aim their best GT car [GTS] to beat GM's best GT car in the ZR1? What sense does it make to let the racer ACR do that job? Apples and oranges imho.

If a person is in the market for a high performance GT car they are not going to shop for an ACR. So if I'm SRT I would want to position my GT car {GTS} as the best GT car so that I attract the buyer looking for the best equipped/performing alternative to the usual European GT suspects. I would equipped it accordingly. Maybe I'm off in my reasoning.

 

[hou99gts]

Good thing you have three hands, now make them into fists and plug your three holes, your spewing sewage.

G1= bone crusher bare nuckled street brawler...with damn good looks.
G2 = keept being better and still a brute crushing damn near everyone one.
G3 = failure, hardly faster than G2 and vette closes gap....happen to looking too much like a S2000 to boot. Got a bit soft.

G4-ACR = What Gen 3 should have been from the start. But still looked like a ricer S2000. But we cut it some slack based on performance.

G5 = total failure...so far.

I have owned G1-G4. I still keep my G1 and G2-TT.

Gen IV ACR looks like a ricer S2000? Talk about spewing sewage.....

 

[DMan]

Good thing you have three hands, now make them into fists and plug your three holes, your spewing sewage.

G1= bone crusher bare nuckled street brawler...with damn good looks.
G2 = keept being better and still a brute crushing damn near everyone one.
G3 = failure, hardly faster than G2 and vette closes gap....happen to looking too much like a S2000 to boot. Got a bit soft.

G4-ACR = What Gen 3 should have been from the start. But still looked like a ricer S2000. But we cut it some slack based on performance.

G5 = total failure...so far.

I have owned G1-G4. I still keep my G1 and G2-TT.

Wow, I'd respond but your own post makes you look so silly & uninformed there's nothing i could add except laughter. Cheers.

On another note, have we hit a record yet on pages for a thread?? We certainly have for useless posts. Since it'll probably be Feb til anything interesting happens again, with car arrivals, I'll be over in the other forums for a while. Seacrest, out.