Monday we find out who is faster at Laguna Seca, ZR1 or Gen V

[slitherv10]

I am sure all of these cute opinions of people that were "on the fence" outweighs the extensive market research which SRT did before building the Viper.

Being one of these apparently looked down upon "new market" folks - ones that want a stupidly fast, extremely high horse power car that also has a beautiful, well appointed interior - I find it amusing. Especially when everyone uses a configuration of the most expensive vehicle with every option checked as the price point.

The Viper simply couldn't compete in the market and be profitable as it was, it needed to evolve. Seeing as the GTS with upgraded interiors has been selling 2:1, apparently people do want a more plush vehicle. But, lets not let reality get in the way of opinions.

I never said you "market guys" were looked down apon. I merely stated an "opinion"as you quoted it was.

Firstly, stupidly fast, extremely high horse power as you call the new viper is in \my opinion/ overstated.
beautiful, well appointed interior, is in your opinion, obviously not in some of ours or Motor Trends. Subjective ofcourse.
Your quote " The Viper simply couldn't compete in the market and be profitable as it was, it needed to evolve"end quote, does not stand. The Gen 1 and Gen 2 vipers were sold out beofre production...most anyway. the 96 GTS was sold only to previous viper owners and the demand was so high they continued production into 97 with @500 more GTS in B/W. The Gen 3's were alittle slow in sales but that was because of style promises and no delivery by Dodge. 06 was better. The Gen 4 cars came out with a bang and sold out early but the 2010 was a bad year in that dodge was to end the life of the viper and only 500 ACR's were to be built and thats it. Unfortunatly with talks of it being revived it slowed the sales.
anyway, th point is those terrible interiors and bad brakes and so on and so on...made headlines and we the viper ppl including you...bought them with our heads held high. So, your quote makes no sense. they were always profitable because the viper was held as a bare bones fighter, not a gloves on fighter as this car has. Thanks for that quote Ray W. Fits like a glove..get it..you get it. The GTS is selling 2 to 1 means what? Means nothing for numbers. So if 300 GTS are sold and 150 SRT's , that means that it was a steller year for sales with 450 cars?...amusing. Sell thousnds of GTS and hundreds of SRT;s and ill be convinced this car was made with us in mind. Not convincing so far. If the GTS had better tires and brakes it would beat the ZR1...lol...bby how much...a small margin...lol..whats that...thats brgging rights,,,beating a competitor by margins....The earlier vipers ...BLEW the doors off the competitors...not by mere margins...comon guys...is that all you need to make this car the king of the street? Not in my opinion. This new Viper would need to leave those guys so far back that it would take years for them to catch up. The same thing that the 96 and gen 2's did until 2006. 13 years later when the ZO6 could compete with it. 13 years !!! Thats fact not opinion. Oh but we have a nice interior now....lol...nice...where do i sign? lol...i would rather keep my GTS and put 40000 into it and blow the doors off that ZR1 and spend half the money doing so...stock or not...who cares...its down to the wire when your racing...not interiors...not brakes, not paintjobs or wheels...its about the numbers. I don't need th newest and most current production car with all the bliing bling you guys all asked for. i speak for most here...

getting hungry again...lol

 

[ViperSmith]

I never said you "market guys" were looked down apon. I merely stated an "opinion"as you quoted it was.

Firstly, stupidly fast, extremely high horse power as you call the new viper is in \my opinion/ overstated.
beautiful, well appointed interior, is in your opinion, obviously not in some of ours or Motor Trends. Subjective ofcourse.
Your quote " The Viper simply couldn't compete in the market and be profitable as it was, it needed to evolve"end quote, does not stand. The Gen 1 and Gen 2 vipers were sold out beofre production...most anyway. the 96 GTS was sold only to previous viper owners and the demand was so high they continued production into 97 with @500 more GTS in B/W. The Gen 3's were alittle slow in sales but that was because of style promises and no delivery by Dodge. 06 was better. The Gen 4 cars came out with a bang and sold out early but the 2010 was a bad year in that dodge was to end the life of the viper and only 500 ACR's were to be built and thats it. Unfortunatly with talks of it being revived it slowed the sales.
anyway, th point is those terrible interiors and bad brakes and so on and so on...made headlines and we the viper ppl including you...bought them with our heads held high. So, your quote makes no sense. they were always profitable because the viper was held as a bare bones fighter, not a gloves on fighter as this car has. Thanks for that quote Ray W. Fits like a glove..get it..you get it. The GTS is selling 2 to 1 means what? Means nothing for numbers. So if 300 GTS are sold and 150 SRT's , that means that it was a steller year for sales with 450 cars?...amusing. Sell thousnds of GTS and hundreds of SRT;s and ill be convinced this car was made with us in mind. Not convincing so far. If the GTS had better tires and brakes it would beat the ZR1...lol...bby how much...a small margin...lol..whats that...thats brgging rights,,,beating a competitor by margins....The earlier vipers ...BLEW the doors off the competitors...not by mere margins...comon guys...is that all you need to make this car the king of the street? Not in my opinion. This new Viper would need to leave those guys so far back that it would take years for them to catch up. The same thing that the 96 and gen 2's did until 2006. 13 years later when the ZO6 could compete with it. 13 years !!! Thats fact not opinion. Oh but we have a nice interior now....lol...nice...where do i sign? lol...i would rather keep my GTS and put 40000 into it and blow the doors off that ZR1 and spend half the money doing so...stock or not...who cares...its down to the wire when your racing...not interiors...not brakes, not paintjobs or wheels...its about the numbers. I don't need th newest and most current production car with all the bliing bling you guys all asked for. i speak for most here...

getting hungry again...lol

Well first, paragraphs.

MT, was the only rag to rip on the interior. After the Napa event, every single article raved about the interior. So, dozens to one.

they were always profitable because the viper was held as a bare bones fighter, not a gloves on fighter as this car has.

What business would kill a profitable product? So what if they sold out in 1996? That doesn't help much in 2010, now does it?

Yawn.

 

[slitherv10]

Well first, paragraphs.

MT, was the only rag to rip on the interior. After the Napa event, every single article raved about the interior. So, dozens to one.

is that where everyone sat in the car for a few minutes...lol..a few minutes...thats what it takes to love the interior?...lol...comon



What business would kill a profitable product? So what if they sold out in 1996? That doesn't help much in 2010, now does it?

Dodge didnt go belly up because of the non profitable Viper...comon...lol...They sold out the viper beacause of STR's interest to buy it. Also a good idea for revival of dodge. Cut backs is what i believe their called....

By the way.....what options did you order from the "luxury list you all sked for" or....did you order a car at all.......yawn

 

[bcmarly]

The welcome mat is full of broken glass.

 

[Coloviper]

Well now we know the Mayans were referring to this Viper thread and not the demise of the earth or civilization. Boy the weirdos have come out. Just stop it already, this all is just making the VCA look bad and some of the posters have a lot more than feet shoved in their mouths.

It is one test for crying out loud. SRT will fix what may or may not be wrong. There is a subjective aspect to this as well in the driver is human. Relax already.

My experience as a Viper owner and other VCA Viper owners is the professionalism. Calm, cool and collected. ZR1 is a fast car, let it be. It is not a Viper. Those that stil feel is should be equiped ala 1992 Specs........ha! ha! Might be time to trim up your mullet a bit and realize it is the 2010s.

Close this thread already as it is just a massive ***** session for everything all over the map. Craziness! What are we in a school yard sand box. Grow up already. This thread is of no beneft to anyone anymore.

 

[doctorbob]

I second the motion of Coloviper.

 

[Ray W]

All relevent points made...........aye.

 

[ViperSmith]

Has anyone blamed Obama yet? Need to make sure all the bases are covered

 

[shooter_t1]

Big deal...round 1 to the Vette. SRT will figure it out, or they won't. Who cares, like many have mentioned, the emphasis was on taming the car a little to appeal to a broader base. I sure don't plan on selling MY Viper because a Vette with better tires was 2 seconds faster then the new car.

But when Ralph and company build the 700 HP Gen V ACR, it better take no prisoners.

 

[SilveRT8]

My Flying saucer is faster than yours !!!

 

[bluestreak]

I completely see where you are coming from however I think there are too many variables of people to draw any lines for comparison. There are a lot of Vette guys who want a track day special. GM won't make one, they teased with the Z06-X or whatever that thing was they said they had no plans to make, but nothing came to fruition. The Viper covers pretty much all bases for a mid priced high end performance car. You have the base Viper for people that just want a Viper, track pack for some added frills, GTS for more luxury and an ACR for the ********. All bases covered. For the Corvette all you have is faux track cars. The ZR1 is not a track car, neither is it really luxury performance. Same goes for the Z06. In that aspect I think SRT has done a better job. Different strokes for different folks. I have a track car, so it would be ZR1 or Base Viper for me. If I didn't though, ACR all the way. So it depends on the circumstances.

That's just ideals though. When it comes to performance, unless SRT is ditching it's old faithful and going anew, the Viper has to beat the Corvette, even if you don't count the ACR. The ZR1 and Gen IV ACR have been compared to no end, and until GM man up and build a street legal track monster, the ACR will still own most any test between the two. But still, the Gen V has to, I reiterate HAS TO beat at the least the Z06 (which with a Z07 package is only just behind the ZR1). IMO unless SRT are neutering the Viper, it needs to get ahead of the Corvette, ASAP.

Anyway what it your thought on the GTS being the ZR1 rival as opposed to the ACR? I personally dont think the ACR should even be mentioned with these two. Imho the upcoming ACR, just like the last beast, is in a different category than the ZR1 and GTS. The ACR is more akin to the Porsche GT2 RS/GT3 category of car than it is to a GT class car like the ZR1 and the new Viper GTS. These kind of car are not real race cars but they are way more focused for track than either GTS or ZR1. So why would SRT not aim their best GT car [GTS] to beat GM's best GT car in the ZR1? What sense does it make to let the racer ACR do that job? Apples and oranges imho.

If a person is in the market for a high performance GT car they are not going to shop for an ACR. So if I'm SRT I would want to position my GT car {GTS} as the best GT car so that I attract the buyer looking for the best equipped/performing alternative to the usual European GT suspects. I would equipped it accordingly. Maybe I'm off in my reasoning.

 

[elanderholm]

You guys are putting to much stake in mag reviews. Yes, people will spew it on the internet to troll, but affecting sales, unlikely. The new civic was getting murdered by everyone and broke sales records. The acr was killing everything and sales were awful. These tests have very little to do with sales. Gen V viper will sell better than any of the previous years. The gen 2 vipers had issues with brakes back in the day. The standard viper has never been faster on track than all cars; that's revisionist history.

 

[ViperTony]

Vipers & Chicks Pics.

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[bushido]

On the corvette forum there was a guy that was at the MT's test at laguna seca,and this is what he had to say. I thought it might be of interest to some of you guys here..

I think I can add a interesting perspective since I was there at the test at Laguna Seca. A Porsche buddy and I noticed on Laguna Seca's web site calendar that Motor Trend was
renting the track on Tuesday Dec. 11. We drove up to see what was going on. We walked right up to the pit lane and saw the ZR1 and Viper being prepped for 2 lap warm up then a
4 lap run (one warm up, two hot, and one cool down). I can assure you that everything was on the up and up. The Motor Trend crew was very professional and Randy was just
waiting for them to finish their prep. He ran each car in that format. I couldn't believe how he was hammering both cars. No lifting on turn one which is pretty ballsy for a production car with no wing or aggressive aero. After each car he stepped out and had comments. He said the ZR1 handled way better than the earlier ZR1 from before. Four years of
adjustments and R rubber with 80 tread wear rating vs. 220 tread wear rating. Makes sense !! When he got out of the Viper he said it had more understeer and more oversteer
than the ZR1. He walked around the car and said maybe it's the bushing density or a toe in because it had a tendency to pull slightly to the left. He then walked behind and
observed the driver side rear wheel toe in. He's sharp !!!! I walked back there and also noticed it. You could see a definite toe in on the driver side rear. Since Laguna is a left turn
dominate track I wondered if SRT would set it up that way. I've since e-mailed Jonny Lieberman and he said that it didn't seem a issue as they would have picked it up on their
figure 8 test. Maybe I'm making something of nothing but I've read a bit about toe in manipulation for Nascar (crabbing) and how it can initiate a turn. Having only one rear tire
being toe'd in is interesting at best. The track was certainly green and the ZR1 went out first so it likely blew off some dust for the Viper. Advantage Viper. They also made comment
about both cars needing better brake fluid. Both cars came without tech help from the factories. MT crew really seemed excited for both cars and I didn't see any favoritism for
either car. The new Viper is a hot looking car and still blows away most everything. SRT will make adjustments and you will still have everything that you guys wanted in your new
snake. I love both cars and was thrilled to see the record fall. PROGRESS !!!

 

[Alabaster Mamba]

Well there is another aspect to look at and that is familiarity with the car. Randy is obviously familiar with the ZR1 due to his past testing of the car. But there is no way he could have any familiarity with the Gen V. So maybe it's true that he didn't know just how far he could push it. Either way, it's not the end of the world. Really! Looks like it was just the end of the long cycle after all. Hahaha.

Merry Christmas everyone and enjoy the Holidays!!!

 

[tbi]

Gotta add my two cents...


Geeze the zr1 is a badazz car. no shame in tying the quarter mile and loseing on the roadcourse.

The zr1 is maxed out and the viper just getting broke in.

Rest asured the viper will be faster in the 0-150 mph test. Im expecting 15.9 seconds vs 16.5 for the zr1.

Im also expecting the next mag test to show more equal or gasp the viper winning on the road course.

But rather the viper wins or not...geeze the zr1 isnt just a 49k corvette. its a 120k supervette.

What it lacks in styling interior and exoticness all went to the engine suspension and tires/brakes.

The viper gives you the styling plus interior and much more exotic status with similar performance for 10k less base price.

Ive seen plenty of used zr1s for 70k. still have no desire for one for the reasons posted above.

Now a genv.....good lord I want one bad. so do my lambo and gtr buddies who have no interest in the zr1

 

[SilveRT8]

Gotta add my two cents...


Geeze the zr1 is a badazz car. no shame in tying the quarter mile and loseing on the roadcourse.

The zr1 is maxed out and the viper just getting broke in.

Rest asured the viper will be faster in the 0-150 mph test. Im expecting 15.9 seconds vs 16.5 for the zr1.

Im also expecting the next mag test to show more equal or gasp the viper winning on the road course.

But rather the viper wins or not...geeze the zr1 isnt just a 49k corvette. its a 120k supervette.

What it lacks in styling interior and exoticness all went to the engine suspension and tires/brakes.

The viper gives you the styling plus interior and much more exotic status with similar performance for 10k less base price.

Ive seen plenty of used zr1s for 70k. still have no desire for one for the reasons posted above.

Now a genv.....good lord I want one bad. so do my lambo and gtr buddies who have no interest in the zr1

Very well said ! Viper is the one most people will lust for

 

[ACRucrazy]

Vipers & Chicks Pics.

You must be registered for see images attach

Quoted for the sake of quoting.

 

[plumcrazy]

pressure is on ralph for the next test now..... lets see what happens.

if it fails again, then we stone him and SRT, if not, there will be plenty of hope

 

[ACRucrazy]

When we see the Car & Driver review in Feburary the Viper guys will be less happy.

From Corvetteforum

 

[canadian venom]

Ok guys, time to regroup and forget about this thread. Everything has been said, time to move on to something more positive

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

This is grossly overexaggerated. There were literally thousands upon thousands of z06's built and the "tracking" of blown motors due to the valve guide issue represents maybe 1%.

True, there were thousands of Z06s made but if it is only 1% that have popped then how come my buddy while driving his Z06 with another guy who had a Z06 had his motor just let go cruising at 70mph? IMO that there are a few more problems than this. One thing I might add and I dont think anyone has mentioned it yet and this prevented me from buying a ZR1 was the fact that GM had huge imbalance problems with the CC brakes on the ZR1. These cars had a ton of problems with 70-80 mph vibrations. It was determined that it was imbalanced rotors which GM ignored. To this date from what I know and dont follow the corvettes that much anymore is that GM just ignored this problem and let hundreds of owners figure it out for themselves. Not cool. The new snake will have growing pains as it really is the first year of a new car. These things do happen and happen more frequently than one would like to believe.

 

[SnakeBitten]

I completely see where you are coming from however I think there are too many variables of people to draw any lines for comparison. There are a lot of Vette guys who want a track day special. GM won't make one, they teased with the Z06-X or whatever that thing was they said they had no plans to make, but nothing came to fruition. The Viper covers pretty much all bases for a mid priced high end performance car. You have the base Viper for people that just want a Viper, track pack for some added frills, GTS for more luxury and an ACR for the ********. All bases covered. For the Corvette all you have is faux track cars. The ZR1 is not a track car, neither is it really luxury performance. Same goes for the Z06. In that aspect I think SRT has done a better job. Different strokes for different folks. I have a track car, so it would be ZR1 or Base Viper for me. If I didn't though, ACR all the way. So it depends on the circumstances.

That's just ideals though. When it comes to performance, unless SRT is ditching it's old faithful and going anew, the Viper has to beat the Corvette, even if you don't count the ACR. The ZR1 and Gen IV ACR have been compared to no end, and until GM man up and build a street legal track monster, the ACR will still own most any test between the two. But still, the Gen V has to, I reiterate HAS TO beat at the least the Z06 (which with a Z07 package is only just behind the ZR1). IMO unless SRT are neutering the Viper, it needs to get ahead of the Corvette, ASAP.

I concur with the above. SRT definitely needs to take the reins on the new Vipers performance image and take it out of the hands of the magazines. I look forward to their response to the bad showing by MT with substance and not more hype. This test ended up a better commercial for the old Corvettes instead of the new Viper.

 

[Camfab]

You know the thread is over when we're talking about a seven year old issue with the Z06. Hell why not throw in the the flying delaminating Corvette roof tops GM couldn't keep on the cars. It's got nothing to do with the topic, but let's just keep bashing. Hopefully this thread will go so viral that the VCA members plus non member haters will collectively be known as the first group to get a car discontinued. This thread is making me sick..........

 

[plumcrazy]

i know of at least six 1977 trans ams that have leaky t tops

 

[BlackSnake99]

i know of at least six 1977 trans ams that have leaky t tops

Pales in comparison to the Pinto fire issue,

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

pressure is on ralph for the next test now..... lets see what happens.

if it fails again, then we stone him and SRT, if not, there will be plenty of hope

Not sure if the sarcasm button was on, but good God really? I don't know who a better choice could be for the head of any performance car company, or a group of designer/engineers, that statement is ridiculous...

 

[v10enomous]

i know of at least six 1977 trans ams that have leaky t tops

I figured this would surely be the final nail in the coffin of this thread but NO....

 

[elanderholm]

I like turtles!

 

[doctorbob]

Great day in New Zealand. Summer is here! If I am not mistaken....were we not in a roll call to end this thread? On a serious note...I have not seen any turtles or Trans Ams here...New Zealand versions of rice cars....yes.