Mopar Race Exhaust w/Vortex cones

[Carleton]

Hi

If anyone has installed the Vortex cones with the Mopar exhaust I need to know the location where the cones are tac-welded on the exhaust.

Thank you
Carleton
_______________________
2002 RT (Sold)
2005 Commemorative Ed. #56
Mopar Race Exhaust & Shifter
170* T-stat K&Ns 3:55 Gears
Al. Flywheel Quaife 478rwhp/501rwtq

 

[Vipermann]

Don't do it. Vortex cones = noticable drop in power (I could feel the difference). I eventually had the Mopar Race set up with 3" RT (metal) cats, and it was not loud at all. I recommend the cats over the Vortex cones any day (and you get to keep your O2 sensors connected that way too) ...

 

[Kenny]

Don't do it. Vortex cones = noticable drop in power (I could feel the difference). I eventually had the Mopar Race set up with 3" RT (metal) cats, and it was not loud at all. I recommend the cats over the Vortex cones any day (and you get to keep your O2 sensors connected that way too) ...

That's absolute BS. Especially if you are saying that a set of vortex cones produce more power loss than a set of RT cats. That's totally ridiculous.

I have the Vortex cones and there is no noticeable loss of power. In fact, I think most people would be hard pressed to identify the gain in power of 10% you get from an exhaust system on a 500+hp car that can't hook up all the power in the first place.

Read up on some of the literature on Vortex cones. They are used to meet track noise restrictions by a lot of drag racers who spend big bucks on engine development. How many of those guys do you see bolting on a set of RT cats?

Carleton, did your installer ever get it figured out? I can't believe a guy with his rep has had this much of a problem with this. I talked to him and he still didn't seem to get it. It is so simple that I can't understand why it's not common sense. There is literally one (and only one) spot for these things to go. Right in front of the muffler, cone pointing upstream. They slide completely inside of the first pipe and tack weld in.

 

[Dan Cragin]

The cones are installed, thanks for your advise. The initial problem was that the headpipes appeared to be too close to the turnouts to fit the cones. Once the mufflers were off we ralized there was enough room.

 

[Vipermann]

That's absolute BS. Especially if you are saying that a set of vortex cones produce more power loss than a set of RT cats. That's totally ridiculous.

I have the Vortex cones and there is no noticeable loss of power. In fact, I think most people would be hard pressed to identify the gain in power of 10% you get from an exhaust system on a 500+hp car that can't hook up all the power in the first place.

Read up on some of the literature on Vortex cones. They are used to meet track noise restrictions by a lot of drag racers who spend big bucks on engine development. How many of those guys do you see bolting on a set of RT cats?

Pure fact. Been there, did it, done that. Few people on this board have personally tried more different exhaust systems on an SRT-10 than I have (I had B&B, CORSA Track and Mopar Race systems, with stock cats, and with RT cats, on my car). Check your own BS. I Don't need to 'read up', as you suggest, because I lived with those cones, and they stink. Have you really actually tried them? or have you only 'read up' on them? I even removed them, and drilled them out somewhat to try and improve the flow.

I was never saying that the Vortex cones block more exhaust flow than cats. They block more flow, and lose power ... when used WITH cats. ... And here's more from experience (not reading up) ... the Mopar race system is supplied without cats, which makes it louder -- so then somebody gets the idea (like I did) to install cones to reduce the sound. But the whole point of my post is to go with RT h/f cats instead of the cones -- you get the desired sound reduction (my Mopar race was less loud than a prior Corsa Track system), and you maintain the benefits of the cats and sensors, as the system was designed. But people are tempted to remove the cats, and use cones instead, because they have 'read up' and falsely believe that the cones will result in no loss of flow (or power) -- which I can personally tell you is ... BS.

 

[Carleton]

Vipermann

I had the Vortex Cones installed because of the anoying drone at certain speeds, not because the exhaust is too loud. The cones seem to cut the drone down about 75% or so and I can live with that as I do cruise alot on the weekends.

As far as SOTP feel in powerloss I don't notice any and probably couldn't tell if there was I slight drop or not. It's still FUN to drive!!

Carleton
__________________
2002 RT (Sold)
2005 Comm. Ed. #56
Mopar Race Exhaust, Mopar Shifter
K&Ns, 170* T-Stat. DC Performance ECM Reflash
Quaife, 355's, Al. Flywheel. PS2s
Asanti 20" AF112, 478rwhp/501rwtq

 

[Vipermann]

Vipermann

I had the Vortex Cones installed because of the anoying drone at certain speeds, not because the exhaust is too loud. The cones seem to cut the drone down about 75% or so and I can live with that as I do cruise alot on the weekends.

As far as SOTP feel in powerloss I don't notice any and probably couldn't tell if there was I slight drop or not. It's still FUN to drive!!

Carleton

Glad you're happy. But keep in mind, as Vortex material states, the cones are really designed to go directly behind headers. When they are used on a track, they are often used with much larger-than-stock pipes, so even if they block 25% of the diameter surface area, that can be offset 'somewhat' by pipes that might be 30% larger, and even then, the cones are used without cats and with shorter, 'open' race exhaust systems -- that's very different from a street system that's more restrictive to begin with.

Corsa has probably the best flowing system out there, and when I asked the Corsa reps at VOI-9 about the cones, they said that they have measured a loss of -13 RWHP with the cones, and to avoid them. I just couldn't justify spending bucks for all kinds of performance mods and tweaks, and then to give some of that power back by shoving something like a cone in the exhaust pipe -- it made no sense to me, and I took them out.

I only noticed a drone with my Mopar system when the top was up (which wasn't often). And a Viper isn't meant to sound like a Lexus, so I didn't mind.

I'm just hoping the stock exhaust on my ordered '08 is going to be better so that messing with/changing the exhaust isn't even an issue on my list of things to do.

 

[Carleton]

Corsa has probably the best flowing system out there, and when I asked the Corsa reps at VOI-9 about the cones, they said that they have measured a loss of -13 RWHP with the cones, and to avoid them. I just couldn't justify spending bucks for all kinds of performance mods and tweaks, and then to give some of that power back by shoving something like a cone in the exhaust pipe -- it made no sense to me, and I took them out.

I only noticed a drone with my Mopar system when the top was up (which wasn't often). And a Viper isn't meant to sound like a Lexus, so I didn't mind.

Are we comparing apples to apples here?? When you refer to Corsa aren't you talking about Corsa (with cats).
Your tag says you have the Mopar Race Exhaust w/RT cats.?? Isn't the Mopar Race a Catless System?

Carleton
---------------------
2002 RT (Sold)
2005 Comm. Ed. #56
Mopar Race Exhaust, Mopar Shifter
K&Ns, 170* T-Stat. DC Performance ECM Reflash
Quaife, 355's, Al. Flywheel. PS2s
Asanti 20" AF112, 478rwhp/501rwtq

 

[Vipermann]

I've had and tried them all ... I had the B&B 3" system and removed it because I didn't like the sound (or the heat -- the B&B cats are huge, and they burn the insides of the sills) ... I then put a Corsa Track system on with the B&B cats (too loud) ... I then replaced the B&B cats with Random Tech 3" metal cats and header pipe system (still to loud) .. I then put in Vortex cones (less loud, but noticed drop in power) ... I then cut/drilled out a 1" hole (instead of the 3/8" stock hole) at the top of the Vortex cones (not enough improvement, engine still seemed choked) ... I then ditched the Vortex cones and installed the 3" Mopar Race system behind the 3" R/T cats (I didn't use the open flex-pipe supplied with the Mopar system) ... and, wha la ... perfection!!! ... then ... I traded the car

for an '08 that I now have on order

 

[Kai SRT10]

I did a before and after dyno with Vortex cones on my 3 inch Corsa Track exhaust. 3inch RT cats and BB stepped headers.

I lost 3 hp and gained 4 tq. Not enough to even be outside the margin for error in a dyno reading. I don't know how to account for other people's loss in SOTP power when adding cones.

 

[Vipermann]

The techs at CORSA lost over 13HP with the cones ... not SOTP ... my personal experience matches what the CORSA guys told me ...

 

[Viper X]

I've tried a few exhaust systems too and a bunch of different mufflers, in fact, too many. Like Vipermann, I've been trying to get the sound quiet enough for me and continue to make power. I settled on the full B & B system with stepped headers, their cats and 3-inch cross overs. I have not had heat issues nor have I burned my sills with this system and I'm running it on a 925 rwhp Paxton car in southern CA where it's usually pretty warm. Needless to say, this system flows very well and is reasonably quiet.

I tried the Vortex cones in several spots on both my SRT-10 (prior to the B & B system) and my GTS. Bottom line is that they seem to work better, i.e. muffle the sound better when installed behind the muffler than in the header collector area. They also loose less if any power when located further back in the exhaust system. I'm not sure why Vortex recommends that you install them in or just behind the collector. They haven't worked well there in Vipers for me.

All of my experience with Vortex cones in exhaust systems has been on cars with headers. I currently have B & B stepped headers (SRT-10), B & B 1 3/4 inch headers (GTS) and Belangers (SRTC) on my 3 Vipers. I can't tell if Vipermann's car(s) have headers or stock exhaust manifolds, so our results may be different.

On the dyno, horse power variation was well within the normal margin of error. Torque seems to go up a little bit as Kai said. No way I could feel any difference using the SOTP method.

Dan