More powerful Viper? No, NOT the 2008!

[viper spray]

Dodge could take the easy way out and bolt on a blower like GM did , or better yet....TT .

 

[RTTTTed]

Yah, de-tune it to about 800hp and go kick some Ferraris, Porsches, DB9s, etc. etc. Charge, say ... $200,000. No warranty if raced. That would make them a ton of money and bring home all the trophies, YES

That's my vote.

Ted

 

[Vipermann]

You got it. You just burried the *****. I got no problem with having differenting opinions from someone, but when they cant read a signature and see I have bought more GEN 3'S Then gen 2s... then whats the point in reading the rest of his rant...

Sorry... not only were you wrong about my experience and ownerhsip with gen 3s, but also where the 08/09 will compare to the zr1 when it debuts. Blindly believing in the SRT guys to deliver us at top of the hill... is what got us the loss in 06 and 07. I'm a realist, and I understand power to weight ratio... and we lost on paper.. and just like people said it wasnt true, when the c6z06 came out, tracks started proving what we all knew.. numbers dont lie... law of physics.


Jon

I didn't say YOU were the only Gen 1/2 owner as the point of my post.

Your quote was so shallow (about the ZR1) however, that it made a great starting point for my 'rant' ... and now you've helped by adding even more racing knowledge.

You are a true magazine racer (a realist) ... power-2-weight ratios ... oh, impressive. How about suspension, downforce and handling. Everyone who knows their butt from a hole in the ground (where you seem a bit confused) sees that the ACR will stick like glue in the corners. The ZR1 will not. The ACR will likely be FASTER and beat the ZR1 on a road course.

 

[Vipermann]

If you really think that the Gen 1 was designed to be a king of the road course, you are on something.

The Viper is getting a reputation of being a good track car, but there was always that "brute horsepower" halo for the car. As it is turning out, they are loosing that halo because of the enemy from day 1.

Go read up on the history. Then come back and give us your book report. The Gen1 was inspired by the Shelby Cobra -- a road car all the way (and Shelby was a road course kind of guy). The GTS raced at LeMans -- and that was the focal point of that car's marketing ... they even drove a dozen or so Vipers through the streets of Paris (to reinforce the point -- and it's not that they thought folks in Paris would be big drag racing fans).

..."getting a reputation of being a good track car" ... just now? ... ummm, no.

 

[The Great One]

Go read up on the history. Then come back and give us your book report. The Gen1 was inspired by the Shelby Cobra -- a road car all the way (and Shelby was a road course kind of guy). The GTS raced at LeMans -- and that was the focal point of that car's marketing ... they even drove a dozen or so Vipers through the streets of Paris (to reinforce the point -- and it's not that they thought folks in Paris would be big drag racing fans).

..."getting a reputation of being a good track car" ... just now? ... ummm, no.

Go re-read my post. I said the Gen 1, not the GTS. I know all about the GTS and it's racing history, trust me.

 

[CitySnake]

I know you gents can disagree without literally calling each other derogatory names, right!

Yes, of course you can.

 

[Cobraken]

The only reason why those Vipers were so far ahead back then, was that nobody else was paying attention like the other car companies are doing now.

Let me 1st say that in performance and comfort the SRT 10 is superior to the gen 1/2 cars stock. Until recently I would say the GTS was superior in looks but the SRT 10C is really growing on me. But:

It's statements like the one this quote is from that are inflammatory & promote division in our club. I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion & should express it but maybe opinions can be expressed without the anger.

If my memory is correct the GTS had to compete against a very strong & organized Porshe effort initially and then later on against the Corvette effort. Today I see less interest from the manufacturers with just Corvette & Aston Martin putting any real effort into the series. The time would be good for an organized factory Viper effort to get back on top. It would do wonders for all of us, promoting unity, morale, and pride in our automobiles whether RT, GTS, SRT 10 or SRT 10C.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

I didn't say YOU were the only Gen 1/2 owner as the point of my post.

Your quote was so shallow (about the ZR1) however, that it made a great starting point for my 'rant' ... and now you've helped by adding even more racing knowledge.

You are a true magazine racer (a realist) ... power-2-weight ratios ... oh, impressive. How about suspension, downforce and handling. Everyone who knows their butt from a hole in the ground (where you seem a bit confused) sees that the ACR will stick like glue in the corners. The ZR1 will not. The ACR will likely be FASTER and beat the ZR1 on a road course.

Wow, you do a great job of sticking your keyboard in your mouth every time you type. You really have no clue and it becomes more apparent every time you type. I have many a trophies from VRL/Viper Days, Porsche Club and a number of other clubs I compete in. I am well known to frequent national tracks. So you really are just a donkey's azzhole, and the stuff coming out is the typical manure one would expect from such an orifice.

Putnam Park, Autobahn Country Club, Mid Ohio Raceway, and Virginia International Raceway. I'm listed on VRL points standings.... are you ?

Piss off, MR Know Nothing.. PtoW is only one factor, and its the one the ACR will lose on. And I wasn’t just talking about on the track, I was talking about the Street. The ACR is NOT the comp coupe, it will spend more time on the street then the track in most owners hands. So to isolate the conditions specifically to where will win categorically, is ridiculous. In short tracks where higher speeds wont be possible, a large portion of the down force achieved from the arrow dynamic improvements will therefore be mitigated. I want an all out win, in all areas, like the viper USED to be..

Jon

 

[Roadrunner]

This is right on.

I can get 10,000 ft-lb of torque from a 3.5 HP engine, it will NOT be faster or quicker than an SRT with 500 lf-lb of torque that has 500 HP.

The key is:

"focusing on increasing the highest average HP across the powerband"

BTW an engine like you describe would have to rotate at 1.85rpm or so to only make 3.5hp...

Horsepower and Torque are intertwined.... HP (US)=Torque(lb-ft)*RPM/5252

Your point in the "area under the curve" is quite correct though. Think two-strokes, lots of "power" up high, but with low torque down low, they are tricky to keep "on-the-pipe".

 

[Vipermann]

Wow, you do a great job of sticking your keyboard in your mouth every time you type. You really have no clue and it becomes more apparent every time you type. I have many a trophies from VRL/Viper Days, Porsche Club and a number of other clubs I compete in. I am well known to frequent national tracks. So you really are just a donkey's azzhole, and the stuff coming out is the typical manure one would expect from such an orifice.

Putnam Park, Autobahn Country Club, Mid Ohio Raceway, and Virginia International Raceway. I'm listed on VRL points standings.... are you ?

Piss off, MR Know Nothing.. PtoW is only one factor, and its the one the ACR will lose on. And I wasn’t just talking about on the track, I was talking about the Street. The ACR is NOT the comp coupe, it will spend more time on the street then the track in most owners hands. So to isolate the conditions specifically to where will win categorically, is ridiculous. In short tracks where higher speeds wont be possible, a large portion of the down force achieved from the arrow dynamic improvements will therefore be mitigated. I want an all out win, in all areas, like the viper USED to be..

Jon

Man, you just can't quit. (You sound more 'youthful' with each post.) You are really full of yourself, aren't you? Name-calling, and changing your story, over and over again ... I tried to just let it drop; move on, but after several days, here you go again:

"...you do a great job of sticking your keyboard in your mouth every time you type. You really have no clue and it becomes more apparent every time you type. I have many a trophies from VRL/Viper Days, Porsche Club and a number of other clubs I compete in. I am well known to frequent national tracks..."

Ahh, so what??? That just makes your comments -- embarrassing.

"So you really are just a donkey's azzhole ... Piss off, MR Know Nothing.." Good ones. Ha. Your logic is questioned, so again, you resort to this.

"PtoW is only one factor, and its the one the ACR will lose on. And I wasn’t just talking about on the track, I was talking about the Street. The ACR is NOT the comp coupe, it will spend more time on the street then the track in most owners hands. So to isolate the conditions specifically to where will win categorically, is ridiculous. In short tracks where higher speeds wont be possible, a large portion of the down force achieved from the arrow dynamic improvements will therefore be mitigated."

You started off talking about how "Dodge failed us, AGAIN," as you put it. And how the stock Z06 can pretty much hang with the ACR ... And how the ACR has lost, even before it's ever been tested against the ZR1 ... blah, blah, blah ... BUT NOW WE GET TO THE CRUX OF YOUR STORY (THE LATEST VERSION) ... In response to which, I will share:

1) I'll guess that most folks here don't agree that Dodge has failed us, "again" with the 2008 ACR (and there are even lots of other folks here with trophies too ).

2) The ACR is a TRACK car. The CC is a professional/team race car. And the SRT is the STREET Viper. The improvements with the ACR were designed for the TRACK, not the STREET, so the true measure of the car's value is on the TRACK, not the STREET. And for $100K, the ZR1 is a poseur, if it can't cut it on the track.

3) The SRT (ACR) will reach more than sufficient speed, even on short tracks, to generate and benefit from additional downforce available -- not really mitigated, as you now say.

But above all, it really sounds like you're in the market for a ZR1. Good luck with that.

Now I'm done with this. May I suggest, that we respectively say, F-U, and have a beer?

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

You really have no clue. Its laughable.

So instead of speaking for yourself and all YOUR track experience, which I take it you have none??? You reference other people.

Nope, ACR should have come out with more power. PERIOD. and the zr1 based on its current numbers should beat the ACR pretty handedly on the street, and on a race track most likely. But we'll see what happens...

And as for a few days.. I dont live on here looking for trolls like you.. I respond when I see you rambled more garbage and will continue to, because you really talk out your ass.

The bold does something??? Thanks for showing your skillz.

Jon

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Man, you just can't quit. (You sound more 'youthful' with each post.) You are really full of yourself, aren't you? Name-calling, and changing your story, over and over again ... I tried to just let it drop; move on, but after several days, here you go again:

I never changed my story, so I have no clue what bs your rambling on that one.

Ahh, so what??? That just makes your comments -- embarrassing.

uh ok... I can see now I am wasting my time reasoning with you, but I'll try anyways.

Good ones. Ha. Your logic is questioned, so again, you resort to this.

No, I just think you are an idiot. First you try to stereo type me as a gen 1 or gen 2 guy, and then when you see your a ***** after being corrected by 2 other people (I guess we are all wrong, and you were right).. you change YOUR story...

You started off talking about how "Dodge failed us, AGAIN," as you put it. And how the stock Z06 can pretty much hang with the ACR ... And how the ACR has lost, even before it's ever been tested against the ZR1 ... blah, blah, blah ... BUT NOW WE GET TO THE CRUX OF YOUR STORY (THE LATEST VERSION) ... In response to which, I will share:

1) I'll guess that most folks here don't agree that Dodge has failed us, "again" with the 2008 ACR (and there are even lots of other folks here with trophies too ).

Was there are survey that someone took that backs this up? So far I have given my opinion and made my personal assertions. You now speak for the MAJORITY of the Viper community? I think not. Nice failed logic.

2) The ACR is a TRACK car. The CC is a professional/team race car. And the SRT is the STREET Viper. The improvements with the ACR were designed for the TRACK, not the STREET, so the true measure of the car's value is on the TRACK, not the STREET. And for $100K, the ZR1 is a poseur, if it can't cut it on the track.

OMG.. This is quite simply the funnest. I know a NUMBER of people who short from having a Sport Car Club of America License, are no more or a PROFESSIONAL race car driver, or are BACKED by a RACE Team then you or I. Yet they OWN A CC. And the ACR is NOT JUST a track car, its a street car first and then a track car. A Track car is the COMP COUPE. I finally agree with you on at least 1 thing the ACRs 'improvements' were meant to be for the track, not the street. But that doesnt mean that since it was DUAL purposed to begin with, that they couldnt have done MORE for the street ********** too.

3) The SRT (ACR) will reach more than sufficient speed, even on short tracks, to generate and benefit from additional downforce available -- not really mitigated, as you now say.

But above all, it really sounds like you're in the market for a ZR1. Good luck with that.

Lol... piss off .. I hate vettes ALTHOUGH.. I can appeciate that they have forced Dodge to better the bread.. I just wish Dodge Did more.. I dont like Dodge taking second seat.. ok.. least not the Viper

Now I'm done with this. May I suggest, that we respectively say, F-U, and have a beer?[/quote]

OMG.. NOW.. Finally in closing, I read this last part, after you got me so thoroughly excited to aruge with you... and I have to agree... We certainly can say F-U (respectively) and have a beer

Enjoyed it.. and you can ignore my rants now.. we cool

PS. I just wrote inside of your quote with my responses, because I didnt want a monsterous thread that has you quoting me and me quoting you.. etc...

 

[SweetRed04]

BTW an engine like you describe would have to rotate at 1.85rpm or so to only make 3.5hp...

Horsepower and Torque are intertwined.... HP (US)=Torque(lb-ft)*RPM/5252

Your point in the "area under the curve" is quite correct though. Think two-strokes, lots of "power" up high, but with low torque down low, they are tricky to keep "on-the-pipe".

MY POINT EXACTLY - HP counts....... Torque AND Speed provides HP, not JUST Torque.....

 

[Vipermann]

Btw ... numerous Skip Barber courses here and SB racing school graduate, with plenty of track time here. Been to VRL (Viper Days), but don't really care for it. Don't want to be that hard (or bend up) my Viper. Just not my thing.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Btw ... numerous Skip Barber courses here and SB racing school graduate, with plenty of track time here. Been to VRL, but don't really care for it. Don't want to be that hard (or bend up) my Viper. Just not my thing.

Blah.. blah... When we gettin beers?

And honestly, and im not busting your balls, Vipers come alive on the track, you really should experience what its like especially with VRL.. they have some amazing instructors, and green group isnt supposed to swap paint, along with all other groups.. up to about Red group.. in Red, anything is fair ;-)

Skip Barber is nice, but there is something so rewarding about driving your own rig, understanding how it works, and how you work with it.

My 2 cents.. we certainly don't have to agree.. and we have shown we typically dont .

Jon

 

[Vipermann]

Blah.. blah... When we gettin beers?

And honestly, and im not busting your balls, Vipers come alive on the track, you really should experience what its like especially with VRL.. they have some amazing instructors, and green group isnt supposed to swap paint, along with all other groups.. up to about Red group.. in Red, anything is fair ;-)

Skip Barber is nice, but there is something so rewarding about driving your own rig, understanding how it works, and how you work with it.

I've driven my Viper, and other people's Vipers, on the track. I prefer driving other people's Vipers on the track ... and keeping mine nice and pretty

 

[Pitt Formula Racer]

What's all this talk about power to weight and the ZR1 winning? They both have 620 HP (If the vette is actually 620 HP which is yet to be seen) and are within 10-20 pounds of each other. The ZR1 will probably have more midrange torque, but it falls off on the top end which is gonna make balancing it in corners tricky as the engine is gonna pull kinda opposite of what one would expect.

 

[Paul Hawker]

As the SRT engineers said.
Interesting that the ZR1 comes with a "luxury package",
While the ACR comes with a "********* package".

 

[Pitt Formula Racer]

As the SRT engineers said.
Interesting that the ZR1 comes with a "luxury package",
While the ACR comes with a "********* package".

I like that!! Good point. Not sure I would pay for the ********* package when I could just get the regular and rip the radio out....hehe.