Motul RBF 600 DOT 4 vs. Valvoline Syn Power

[V10SpeedLuvr]

I'm having my brakes flushed next weekend (as well as all other fluids). Is Motul 600 overkill for a streetdriven, non-tracked Viper? I have almost a full bottle (32 fl. oz) of Valvoline Syn Power full synthetic high performance brake fluid ("exceeds DOT 3 and 4"). I also have a 1/2 bottle (1.05 pints) of Motul RBF 600, so I'd need to pick up another bottle by next weekend. I definitely don't mind erring on the side of caution, but is using the Motul overkill for my needs? Car is a 96' RT/10 with stock brake system, but I do plan on upgrading to Tom's rear caliper upgrade by the end of the year.

 

[RobZilla]

If you are gonna upgrade by the end of the year you will need to bleed them out again when you do that. If it were me, I'd go with the less expensive route and upgrade to the best later.

 

[99 R/T 10]

I use the Valvoline and never had a problem with it,

 

[AZTVR]

I think that you wouldn't want to use the Motul. My understanding is that it absorbs water quicker than something like the Valvoline SynPower; so, it would need to be changed sooner. Also, for regular driving, the Valvoline is just fine.

 

[Madduc]

Oh Tom........??

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Howdy. I myself use the Valvoline Synpower, even before when it was called something else. They change the bottle label often. I have also never had a problem with it and it is fairly easy to find and reasonably inexpensive.

Chad, change brakes now and I'll throw in a free bottle. (Yes, one of the big ones.)

 

[RobZilla]

Well surely you cannot beat that offer

 

[Dom426h]

Looks like they might have stopped making that Synpower stuff:
Valvoline.com > Products > Brake Fluids > DOT 3 4 Brake Fluid

Im currently running Castrol-GT-LMA,
Plan on flushing with Motul600 before the next trackday though

 

[AZTVR]

Looks like they might have stopped making that Synpower stuff:
Valvoline.com > Products > Brake Fluids > DOT 3 4 Brake Fluid

The new stuff is High dry boiling point up to 480°F & Minimum wet boiling point is 311°F
whereas the SynPower was 503°F dry boiling point and 343°F wet. So, not as good; but still good enough for most street driving anyone is likely to do.

I don't know what is "good enough" for the track, so I just use Motul there for the margin, even though I am among the slowest Vipers out there. I've seen someone boil supposedly new, regular DOT 3 or 4 fluid, and they were a bit rattled by the result.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Looks like they might have stopped making that Synpower stuff:
Valvoline.com > Products > Brake Fluids > DOT 3 4 Brake Fluid

Im currently running Castrol-GT-LMA,
Plan on flushing with Motul600 before the next trackday though

Same deal for you - 1 qt Valvoline and brakes (was on your list when the stumble problem was fixed.) Moving braking power to the rear will take some of the burden off the fronts.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

I use Motul but I plan to track the car a little and I already had some leftover from my old racecar

I use the synpower on all my other vehicles

just to go off topic a little
Tom, what do you think about this,
on my DDs I use an old turkey baster to pullout as much brake fluid as I can out of the reservoir with each oil change. Then I replace it with new. This way it is always being changed a little at a time. I learned this from an old mechanic a long time ago and have always done it on my DDs.
The Viper gets special treatment though, and gets changed religiously every 2 years

 

[Leslie]

I run Motul 660 but I also track my Viper

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Chad, you don't track your Viper so there is no need for Motul. Any DOT 4 fluid will do. I usually get the big bottle of whatever for $8.

 

[ViperTony]

I used Motul but it turns darks quickly especially when not tracked, at least it seems that way to me. I've been using ATE SL.6. Seems a good fluid my mostly street/few annual track events driving.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

I use Motul but I plan to track the car a little and I already had some leftover from my old racecar

I use the synpower on all my other vehicles

just to go off topic a little
Tom, what do you think about this,
on my DDs I use an old turkey baster to pullout as much brake fluid as I can out of the reservoir with each oil change. Then I replace it with new. This way it is always being changed a little at a time. I learned this from an old mechanic a long time ago and have always done it on my DDs.
The Viper gets special treatment though, and gets changed religiously every 2 years

When I get the brake cores returned to me, I disassemble each one and inspect it. There is a steel washer just inside the brake lever arm as support for the mechanism pushing the piston for the parking brake. This washer is rusty on almost half the brakes I see.

At first I was going to say that the turkey baster could not help, but then I had to wonder how moisture got the the rear brakes? I still lean against it, though.

On my car I have a brake fluid recirculation system (front brakes only.) Every time you step on the brakes, fluid goes from the MC to the caliper. But when you let up, it returns from the caliper to the MC though a second set of brake lines. Every pedal application is a caliper fluid change. The return brake lines act like the heat exchanger. It's a NASCAR short track trick. I think Woodhouse or Snake Oyl sell this system.

Think about it - brake fluid is the only fluid that doesn't get circulated. Many people don't really fight the heat accumulation, they just raise the boiling point of the fluid. If the fluid is cooled (ducting) or circulated (see above) then ultra-high temp brake fluid isn't needed. OK, now I am off topic.

I still have a hard time thinking the fluid in the MC "circulates" and gets to the calipers. It just goes down the brake line and back up. I'd rather see you get speed bleeders and make brake fluid changes really painless.

 

[FrankBarba]

If you would like to use a high performance brake fluid check into the BMW HP Brake Fluid. I used this in my ol Gen 1 all the time.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Tom,
good info
I never thought of it as not truly circulating, just pushing the fluid in front of it
thanks

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Thanks for the answer everyone!

Howdy. I myself use the Valvoline Synpower, even before when it was called something else. They change the bottle label often. I have also never had a problem with it and it is fairly easy to find and reasonably inexpensive.

Chad, change brakes now and I'll throw in a free bottle. (Yes, one of the big ones.)

Tom, thanks for the offer, but buying the new tranny was my "Viper money" for now, so I better hold off a little bit. Rest assured, your brake upgrade will be my next Viper mod

 

[Tom Sessions]

I'm having my brakes flushed next weekend (as well as all other fluids). Is Motul 600 overkill for a streetdriven, non-tracked Viper? I have almost a full bottle (32 fl. oz) of Valvoline Syn Power full synthetic high performance brake fluid ("exceeds DOT 3 and 4"). I also have a 1/2 bottle (1.05 pints) of Motul RBF 600, so I'd need to pick up another bottle by next weekend. I definitely don't mind erring on the side of caution, but is using the Motul overkill for my needs? Car is a 96' RT/10 with stock brake system, but I do plan on upgrading to Tom's rear caliper upgrade by the end of the year.

Chad throw these open bottles of fluid away. The Mopar DOT 4 brake and clutch fluid is very good.I have tested this many times at the track and was very impressed with how well it tests.
Just my .02

 

[dave6666]

So is the Prestone DOT 4 I get at Wally-Mart junk?

 

[jk]

I used the Valvoline SynPower at Tom's recommendation after I did his upgrade. Works great on the street, but on the last track day I did I boiled the brake fluid on the second session of the day. Switched to Motul at the track and all was good. As mentioned this is overkill and higher maintenance for street applications.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

I used the Valvoline SynPower at Tom's recommendation after I did his upgrade. Works great on the street, but on the last track day I did I boiled the brake fluid on the second session of the day. Switched to Motul at the track and all was good. As mentioned this is overkill and higher maintenance for street applications.

To collect data points, how many miles/months with the fluid? Any brake cooling aids? Thanks.

 

[TexasPettey]

For a street driven car, most of the super high boiling point fluids will be wasted money. Your brakes need to get really hot, and stay there to start to boild the fluids. One or two hard brake applications probably won't get you there. If you're getting your brakes that hot on the street, you should consider doing DE's instead.

Also, keep in mind that the longer brake fluid cans sit open the more moisture they will absorb. If those cans have been there a while, as in 1+ years, you'd probably be better off with a new can of cheaper fluild.

 

[dave6666]

Also, keep in mind that the longer brake fluid cans sit open the more moisture they will absorb. If those cans have been there a while, as in 1+ years, you'd probably be better off with a new can of cheaper fluild.

Yes, brake fluid is hydroscopic, meaning it absorbs moisture from the air. I always write the date on a partial open container and after 6 months throw it away. But I use the Prestone DOT4 cheap stuff from Wally-Mart.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Yes, brake fluid is hydroscopic, meaning it absorbs moisture from the air. I always write the date on a partial open container and after 6 months throw it away. But I use the Prestone DOT4 cheap stuff from Wally-Mart.

I need help with the logic here.

You throw away an opened and reclosed container after 6 months. Presumably the foil seal still allows an airtight fit and besides, your garage is humidity and temperature controlled.

How often do you change the brake fluid in the car? Sooner?

 

[dave6666]

I need help with the logic here.

You throw away an opened and reclosed container after 6 months. Presumably the foil seal still allows an airtight fit and besides, your garage is humidity and temperature controlled.

How often do you change the brake fluid in the car? Sooner?

Yes when I buy cheap Prestone DOT4 from Wally-Mart for $3.00 for the little container, after 6 months I toss it.

My garage is not temperature or humidity controlled. My beer is though.

Brake fluid change every 2 years.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

So you "change" opened and unused brake fluid more often than what is in the car? Hmmm... why not at least keep it until you change the car's fluid? The stuff in the can cannot be any "worse."

Luckily brake fluid is engineered to need fewer flushes than beer.

 

[dave6666]

So you "change" opened and unused brake fluid more often than what is in the car? Hmmm... why not at least keep it until you change the car's fluid? The stuff in the can cannot be any "worse."

Luckily brake fluid is engineered to need fewer flushes than beer.

If I change my brake fluid with cans that have been open for 2 years, then at the end of 2 years in the car the stuff is 4 years old. The way I do it, at the end of 2 years the stuff is 2 years old. Because any open can will be thrown away before the next change!

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Sorry, my bad English. I meant that you keep the can while part of it's contents are in your car. If you had to add after 6 months but before 18 months, you could use the same vintage. Then when you change, you really change with all new.

 

[Konza800]

I was thinking that I could use my foodsaver to vacuum out the air (and moisture) from a freshly opened bottle of brake fluid so it would keep until the next change. Anyone ever tried this?