My AR Fabrication 540ci stroker motor

[aries]

Well there's light at the end of the tunnel. I've been without my car for almost 8 months due to a motor failure. Now what has dragged this process out is the "box of assembled parts" as I call it or engine I purchased from Lingenfelter. There supposed "full built, ready for install" has been anything but. However, due to the excellent craftmanship and expertise at AR Fabrication they are in the process of rebuilding this engine to their expert standards and it's nearing completion. I can't wait to have this beast back!!!!!!!

I will be posting pics as the process goes along, enjoy.

 

[spotter]

Glad to see its getting there. My big turbo with all the motor goodies will be hitting the streets soon.

So I know how you are feeling. Can't wait to see the final product.

 

[Ricketts]

OOooooh 540ci

 

[aries]

OOooooh 540ci

Yeah, 505ci just wasn't big enough. lol

 

[ViperTony]

Yeah, 505ci just wasn't big enough. lol

Hey, at this point why not? Can't wait to see and read about it when it's all done. I hope you have a big *hit-eating grin on your face when you get done with your first WOT pull on this beast.

 

[SquadX]

Care to share what all you found or didnt find and how is ling. responding to this?

 

[aries]

Care to share what all you found or didnt find and how is ling. responding to this?

Well, let's see:

1- A used, scored, unuseable truck camshaft was in the motor not a comp cam like they said.

2- Motor had a lot of debris and metal along with lapping compound still on two of the vales causing them not to seal

3- wrong size Mahle pistons with too much clearence. Clearance was .5 1/2 to .6 thou, when Mahle said it should be .3 to .4 due to the higher silicon content in these pistons and there tendency not to expand

4- Moldex crank was not balanced properly

Now Lingenfelters response to this is "when the motor left the shop it was perfect". So I must have done all this to the engine because I guess I'm bored and have nothing better to do.

 

[Viper Ed]

PLEASE post dyno numbers when done. They should be fantastic!!!

 

[Ricketts]

Yeah, 505ci just wasn't big enough. lol

I've with ya man, I want to build a stroker for my GTS but I'm still stuck here in poor 488ci world.

 

[HensleySRT-10]

That thing ought to be insane!!! Keep us posted for sure!

 

[Torquemonster]

Well, let's see:

1- A used, scored, unuseable truck camshaft was in the motor not a comp cam like they said.

2- Motor had a lot of debris and metal along with lapping compound still on two of the vales causing them not to seal

3- wrong size Mahle pistons with too much clearence. Clearance was .5 1/2 to .6 thou, when Mahle said it should be .3 to .4 due to the higher silicon content in these pistons and there tendency not to expand

4- Moldex crank was not balanced properly

Now Lingenfelters response to this is "when the motor left the shop it was perfect". So I must have done all this to the engine because I guess I'm bored and have nothing better to do.

# 3 is a help for an engine that will driven like it was stolen (with a little more noise when cold to go with it), but the rest of it is sad to hear!!! John would turn in his grave to see his high stds slip like this. Hope the end result will be worth the extra trouble and expense it has put you too.

 

[Viper X]

Aries,

Sorry about your problems, but if you are messing with a "stroker" crank in your new engine, you will likely have more ..... problems that is.

Viper engines don't like to be stroked. You'd be better off building it stronger and increasing the boost a couple of pounds than messing with the crankshaft to piston wall geometry.

Good luck,

Dan

 

[aries]

Aries,

Sorry about your problems, but if you are messing with a "stroker" crank in your new engine, you will likely have more ..... problems that is.

Viper engines don't like to be stroked. You'd be better off building it stronger and increasing the boost a couple of pounds than messing with the crankshaft to piston wall geometry.

Good luck,

Dan

Hmmmm, well that's not encouraging!!

Anyone else feel the same or have similar info or experiences with Viper stroker motors?

 

[RTTTTed]

It's to each his own I guess. I had a 'shortstack' 456ci. in a 400 block. Mostly a stroked 400 because it used a 440 crank and using the longer 440 rods is where the "shortstack" nickname was from.

On my B1 engine this design of engine symmetry was good for 50rwhp and it was 50# lighter. This was Koffel's instructions and research. As you know Koffel was the inventor of the B1 head.

Ted

 

[spotter]

I have heard this quite a bit... this is why I made my motor bullet proof instead of a stroker...

UGR and a couple other places have been doing strokers for a while now and I haven't heard of any issues from them, But again they have tested quite a bit of what works and what doesn't. I also think they range in the 520cc's.

I played it safe and kept the stock bore just cleaned it up a bit and upgraded all the pieces to better stronger components.

Do you play on putting turbos or a supercharger on it???

I wouldn't worry too much about it AR Fab, they seem like they do good work and stand by it.

There are alot of tuners that won't come on here and show there work.
I have heard some of the famous ones also.

Anyway, can't wait to see it.

 

[ViperTuner]

# 3 is a help for an engine that will driven like it was stolen (with a little more noise when cold to go with it), but the rest of it is sad to hear!!! John would turn in his grave to see his high stds slip like this. Hope the end result will be worth the extra trouble and expense it has put you too.

The pistons were 4032 Alloy/high silicon .... low expansion ... so even with some moderate heat in the piston the PW is still excessively loose. This will prevent the rings from break-in and seating over the long haul. Excessive crankcase pressures due to increased blow-by... If the pistons were a low silicon piston then yes we could have left the extra clearance for racing purposes... But at the 4"+ piston size .005"-.007" would be for 150hp-250hp per hole.... Thats not our goal here.(there are plenty of other factors here..ie fuel type..induction type.. etc...)

Howard

 

[ViperTuner]

Aries,

Sorry about your problems, but if you are messing with a "stroker" crank in your new engine, you will likely have more ..... problems that is.

Viper engines don't like to be stroked. You'd be better off building it stronger and increasing the boost a couple of pounds than messing with the crankshaft to piston wall geometry.

Good luck,

Dan

Dan,

Most people have been getting their factory crankshaft modified or "OFFSET" ground to increase the stroke of their engines. This allows the crankshaft to become very weak and allows for all sorts of problems...especially when boosted. This engine has a Steel MOLDEX crankshaft which is completely designed with the extra stroke in mind. The rods are custom for this application with the length taken in consideration to properly hold the geometry of the piston wall loading well within an acceptable limit and keep the piston dwell speed acceptable as well. The pistons also use a shorter compression height to allow for the extra rod length and the extra stroke. This change in compression height is the only concern for long term usage(high mileage) since the piston is shorter than stock thus reducing the support the piston has in the cylinder.

Since we are not trying to spin the engine any further than stock RPMs this setup is fine for SC applications...now it would be a different story if aries wanted to go with a set of big twins and stupid WHP.... I would have had the crank sent back to MOLDEX to see if they could put the stock stroke back in it or even less... lol

Howard

 

[ViperTuner]

I have heard this quite a bit... this is why I made my motor bullet proof instead of a stroker...

UGR and a couple other places have been doing strokers for a while now and I haven't heard of any issues from them, But again they have tested quite a bit of what works and what doesn't. I also think they range in the 520cc's.

I played it safe and kept the stock bore just cleaned it up a bit and upgraded all the pieces to better stronger components.

Do you play on putting turbos or a supercharger on it???

I wouldn't worry too much about it AR Fab, they seem like they do good work and stand by it.

There are alot of tuners that won't come on here and show there work.
I have heard some of the famous ones also.

Anyway, can't wait to see it.

I'm not worried.... Its only 100whp per hole we are going for...

Funny how most will not show their work... but thats probably because most facilities do not do their own work.

 

[aries]

Here are pics of the Moldex crank

 

[2001 GTS]

Proline does the UGR motors, so they might be able to help. But then again they might not let go of any info either.

 

[spotter]

I'm not worried.... Its only 100whp per hole we are going for...

Funny how most will not show their work... but thats probably because most facilities do not do their own work.

That's sounds like a good build.

Thanks for showing all of us what your doing, everybody is so secretive in the Viper forums.

Keep up the good work. And I want to see more pictures of the build.

Mine is about to be done soon, so I will post mine when it's ready.

 

[spotter]

Proline does the UGR motors, so they might be able to help. But then again they might not let go of any info either.

Very doubtful that they would help, I asked them last year if they would build me a motor.

They basically said they only do the whole thing.

I wanted to be apart of the build, so that didn't work for me.

They still do some nice work on there cars, just way to secretive.

 

[spotter]

So is a paxton going on this car?

 

[aries]

Yes, it had one with the stock motor. However, we're not running that much boost.

 

[spotter]

Cool, I am sure you will like it, I would definitely look into an upgraded fuel system.

Can't wait to see it done.

I am going to post some picks of my build this weekend.

 

[Viper X]

Aries,

Unfortunately, here at the So Cal Club, we only seem to hear about the "problem" engines and lots of them are modded "off set" ground cranks as Howard says and they are usually boosted big time.

No doubt that some guys can build these engines correctly, we just don't seem to hear from them.

I went "big bore" in my 04 Paxton build, 530 ci with wet liners. Engine spins easily to 6500 rpm and makes more power all the way to redline with only 11 - 11.5 psi max boost - 925 rwhp.

Good luck,

Dan

 

[aries]

Aries,

Unfortunately, here at the So Cal Club, we only seem to hear about the "problem" engines and lots of them are modded "off set" ground cranks as Howard says and they are usually boosted big time.

No doubt that some guys can build these engines correctly, we just don't seem to hear from them.

I went "big bore" in my 04 Paxton build, 530 ci with wet liners. Engine spins easily to 6500 rpm and makes more power all the way to redline with only 11 - 11.5 psi max boost - 925 rwhp.

Good luck,

Dan

That's good to hear. I'm hoping to be in the same horsepower range as you. We are also running around the same boost. I have alot of trust in AR Fabs expertise and experience for building this the right way........even though it's taking FOREVER!!! lol Just kidding Howard

 

[spotter]

patience is a good thing to have during a build.

Trust me I have had to learn that with my build.

I am going over a year without driving my car.

Howard are you done yet?

Sorry for the no pun intended customer reaction. lol

 

[aries]

patience is a good thing to have during a build.

Trust me I have had to learn that with my build.

I am going over a year without driving my car.

Howard are you done yet?

Sorry for the no pun intended customer reaction. lol

Taken from a movie:

Who does the doctor see?......Patients

Look at the elbow on my jacket, what's it doing?......Wearing thin!

Couldn't resist, bonus for anyone who knows what movie that's from.

 

[spotter]

Easy one... Last Action Hero...lol