My Stock 06 Vert Does It Again With A New Best E.T. of 11.57 @ 122.41

[Ray W]

Ok,Speedfreak. Today is the day. Palm beach Test and Tune. I'll be bringing my (GM stock) Gen 4 out, tonight.

Hopefully the new computer will allow quicker and more consistant reponses from the driver's throttle input.

Though there is definitely more power now. I think the 3:55's are going to be hard to hook off the line. I predict traction limited 11:20 and 133-135mph.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Believe me no driver in the country is going to get into a Gen 4 and run an easy 10.8.Two of the absolute BEST DRIVERs out there are Jamie Furman and Evan Smith(their records support this fact ) .Both have run 08 Vipers (Furman ran an 11.0 Smith ran an 11.3)The cars have been out for years and as of yet no one has broken 10s because of the traction issues with the Pilots.With all due respect to Speedfreak (the man ran great times in the Gen 3) i dont think hes going to get in a Gen 4 and be a half second faster than Evan .(if he does then he should be getting paid to run cars not Smith )

I thought you said previously that the Evan runs were under non ideal conditions. Significant improvement possible just by being at a sub 0 DA with great track prep. The improvement would not be directly "driver," though I thought Evan only had 4 or so runs to optimize the driver inputs. Not a lot of optimization potential for a totally different engine and tire application than he ran previously.

 

[vipeuup]

4 tenths and 4 mph is a ton in a drag race probably 4 full car lengths difference.

Easy there. Lets leave the Viper agressions over on the vette forum.

 

[Speedfreak]

Ok,Speedfreak. Today is the day. Palm beach Test and Tune. I'll be bringing my (GM stock) Gen 4 out, tonight.

Hopefully the new computer will allow quicker and more consistant reponses from the driver's throttle input.

Though there is definitely more power now. I think the 3:55's are going to be hard to hook off the line. I predict traction limited 11:20 and 133-135mph.

Hey Ray, just got your phone message. I am going to try like hell and make it out. Bad news is my clutch is giving signs its near the end (car has 27k and I have flogged the hell out it lately) so I will have to try and make 1 or 2 killer runs with a cool motor etc. to see if there is anymore in mine. Weather tonight is not quite as good but close especially later in the evening. Will give you a call and I am very excited to see yours run.

 

[Newport Viper]

That would just be sick. He would cause a massive decline in Zr1 sales! You are easily talking 10.8's or so. BUT...the Gen 4 has less hp and less tq than the Gen 3 below 2500 rpm. I think Speed is making up most of his time 0-70 mph. I wonder if the Gen 4 is as difficult to launch as the Gen 3?

 

[1BADGTS]

I thought you said previously that the Evan runs were under non ideal conditions. Significant improvement possible just by being at a sub 0 DA with great track prep. The improvement would not be directly "driver," though I thought Evan only had 4 or so runs to optimize the driver inputs. Not a lot of optimization potential for a totally different engine and tire application than he ran previously.

We are talking about Evan Smith here .The man makes more runs in a week than most drivers due in a lifetime.(the results he has had driving everything from the Saleen S-7 to the latest Shelby Supersnake speak for themselves. This is the exact reason top level exec from Ford ,Shelby,Saleen Roosh ect make it a point for him to test their latest models)In 3-4 passes Smith can tell judge the track,the car ect.The last time he ran the 11.3 in my 08 (3rd pass )he felt given the weather and track conditions and DRIVING METHOD that day an 11.3 was a good time.However had i elected to let him loosen up a bit an 11.2 or 11.1 was possible.(no 10 second run though ).Anyone who knows Evan knows when he loosens up a bit things can get broken (in 2002 he went thru a clutch and tranny in the not finished Ford GT prototype in an afternoon at Englishtown.John Coletti who was head of Ford SVT did not care because the reason was was driving the car in the first place was Coletti wanted the best possible ET )since in Smiths opinion there was no way that car was going 10s that day we stopped rather than beating the Hell out of it for a tenth or two.

 

[1BADGTS]

I agree. While I appreciate the confidence I am quite sure I would need practice in a GEN IV like any other car to turn some good times. I have mastered the Viper idiosyncracies but 100HP as well as the other differences in the car would take some time. Furman and Smith have been doing this a long time and are the kings of the Gen IV, but I would like a shot sometime.

As to a 10.8 that is another story. PUT SOME TRACTION on a Gen IV and a 10.8 won't surprise me a bit. But with stock tires it would take one hell of a run and some awesome weather and all the stars to align.

Exactly people slit 10 second numbers out but just dont resalize how hard it is to run 10s on Pilots no matter the power.Hell i was there for the test of Dan Blacks car on Pilots .The damn thing trapped at over 140 plus and Smith was around 10.6-10.7 and that car had an 08 by 150 plus to the tire.Also for a NON professional to get dialed in on a car its going to take MANY passes.Which means the owner of that 08 has to be resigned to the fact that his car is going to get the daylights beat out of it.To run 10s on Pilots in a bone stock Viper you not only need a great driver but help with the weather and track prep.

 

[plumcrazy]

i bet i could easily run a 12.5 in an 08......

 

[RTTTTed]

Another vette thread.

Yes, I suppose a half second improvement could be had by VHT, of course that's not a stock race track anymore - is it? It'd be like adding Drag Radials (stock replaement tires DOT legal etc.) to a stock Viper.

We used to get 2 car lengths from doing a burnout through MOROSO traction compound after our water burnout. Can that be listed as stock?

A few years ago the fastest times around the Pacific Northwest were to be had at Spokane (IHRA 1 mile high). 10 and 12 sec. times were adjusted for altitude and the car went .2 faster than it could go a Mission, SIR and Bremerton which were NHRA sea level tracks.

I guess we should all rent a track, pay for VHT spray, find some Traction compound and use that, then make runs all day long until we beat the record? Not very reflective of REAL LIFE.

So now I guess everybody can run Drag Radials if they don't have the time, money and connections to rent a track, etc., etc.? Is there a lot of drag strips that break their sanctioning body rules and allow faster than 11.5 without rollbars and hardtops?

Again pretty damn unrealistic and not something to worry about when you normally go to a racetrack.

Most of us are banned from the track after going too fast.

Ted

 

[RTTTTed]

Wonder if speedfreak could catch some 11.1s or 10s with VHT and all the other advantages?

 

[Nine Ball]

Ted, he would probably need a 1.4 60' time to run 10s with less than 125 mph traps. I don't see that happening on an independent rear axle Viper, without breaking something in the process. These Vipers just need real gearing, the 3.08s are horrible for the drag strip. Sure would be nice to use ALL of 4th gear and see a real trap speed.

Just my experience. You need 127-128 mph traps with a weak (1.7+) 60' time to get in the 10s.

 

[1BADGTS]

Another vette thread.

Yes, I suppose a half second improvement could be had by VHT, of course that's not a stock race track anymore - is it? It'd be like adding Drag Radials (stock replaement tires DOT legal etc.) to a stock Viper.

We used to get 2 car lengths from doing a burnout through MOROSO traction compound after our water burnout. Can that be listed as stock?

A few years ago the fastest times around the Pacific Northwest were to be had at Spokane (IHRA 1 mile high). 10 and 12 sec. times were adjusted for altitude and the car went .2 faster than it could go a Mission, SIR and Bremerton which were NHRA sea level tracks.

I guess we should all rent a track, pay for VHT spray, find some Traction compound and use that, then make runs all day long until we beat the record? Not very reflective of REAL LIFE.

So now I guess everybody can run Drag Radials if they don't have the time, money and connections to rent a track, etc., etc.? Is there a lot of drag strips that break their sanctioning body rules and allow faster than 11.5 without rollbars and hardtops?

Again pretty damn unrealistic and not something to worry about when you normally go to a racetrack.

Most of us are banned from the track after going too fast.

Ted

Ted as usual you are dead wrong as every track in the UNITED STATES uses VHT .(In turn EVERY TRACK is not stock anymore.)I have raced at ENGLISHTOWN DURING A TEST AND TUNE NIGHT -OPEN TO THE PUBLIC when there was so much VHT it pulled your shoes off.What are you talking about.

 

[black mamba1]

Ted as usual you are dead wrong as every track in the UNITED STATES uses VHT .(In turn EVERY TRACK is not stock anymore.)I have raced at ENGLISHTOWN DURING A TEST AND TUNE NIGHT -OPEN TO THE PUBLIC when there was so much VHT it pulled your shoes off.What are you talking about.

Is this from track preparers putting down the VHT or drivers? When I had my Vette the VHT used to cause the rubber to stick to the back of the car during spin outs. Is this still a problem at the tracks? Will I have all kinds of messy compound stuck to the back of my Viper after a burnout at the track?

 

[1BADGTS]

Ted, he would probably need a 1.4 60' time to run 10s with less than 125 mph traps. I don't see that happening on an independent rear axle Viper, without breaking something in the process. These Vipers just need real gearing, the 3.08s are horrible for the drag strip. Sure would be nice to use ALL of 4th gear and see a real trap speed.

Just my experience. You need 127-128 mph traps with a weak (1.7+) 60' time to get in the 10s.

Great points .When Smith ran the 11.3 in my car that day was nuts.Muscle Mustang and Fast Ford had Gary Patterson of Shelby there with a BAD NEW 750 horsepower SUPERSNAKE.JDA Automotive was there with a low 9 second Street Mustang. Gm High Tech had a 1100 horsepower 2007 Twin Turbo Z06 along with 10 other cars running slicks .The track was pristine at 9 in the morning by 10.30 it was an icerink from all the cars with the slicks.I was the only car there among these monsters running Pilots .Evan was lucky to get 0ne 1.87 sixty foot -.To get in the 10s that day you had to be in the 1.7s and that was not going to happen .When iam there (unless he has a Viper specific test )its as a guest so he will squeeze me in between runs.Some day they have the track all day to test 3 cars other times there are 15 or more cars there to test

 

[1BADGTS]

Is this from track preparers putting down the VHT or drivers? When I had my Vette the VHT used to cause the rubber to stick to the back of the car during spin outs. Is this still a problem at the tracks? Will I have all kinds of messy compound stuck to the back of my Viper after a burnout at the track?

YES it is and they still use it.(lol at EVERY TRACK known to mankind besides the tracks Ted goes to.)

 

[1BADGTS]

Is this from track preparers putting down the VHT or drivers? When I had my Vette the VHT used to cause the rubber to stick to the back of the car during spin outs. Is this still a problem at the tracks? Will I have all kinds of messy compound stuck to the back of my Viper after a burnout at the track?

Depending upon the track surface prep will always vary of coarse.Another condition that will will (over the coarse of the event )will be the actual track condition.This factor is influenced by not only the number of cars running but the number of cars running slicks.Each car running slocks can leave a good amount of rubber wich greatly influences a person running stock radials traction.A great driver running stock tires at the very beginning of the night (prepped track )may be able to pull a 1.7 sixty foot.That same driver later on in the night (after a few hundred cars have made passes )is now only able to get a high 1.8

 

[black mamba1]

Ok. I know this is turning into Drag Racing 101, but I cannot tell you guys how informative all this info is. I dont think there is a single thread that has so much helpful info on 1/4 mile racing techniques and tactics.

Ok, now,

1. what exactly is done during "Track Preparation"? What do the "track preparers" do to the track and who prepares the track?

2. Powershifting seems like it would break stuff. Is this a fairly safe tactic? Or is it kinda risky?

 

[RTTTTed]

YES it is and they still use it.(lol at EVERY TRACK known to mankind besides the tracks Ted goes to.)

Sheesh, and just when I was thinking that you had a clue (except for all the vette garbage on the Viper forums of course).

Yes all tracks use VHT. They normally don't use ir for time trials or slow cars. They use it sparingly as it's expensive. But here you're now implying that there's no advantage to adding it just before you run? You're wrong. You're full of innuendos, and bad advise on VHT etc. Write it down like it is. Write down that VHT sprayed immediately before your run and it can make a half sec. difference.

I'm wrong? I drive a Viper and state that Viper is best here on the Viper forums. You're wrong for posting vette garbage here instead of the vette forums.

I challenge you to drive to Mission Raceway and prove all your garbage. Hopefully you won't need to get your vette repaired on your way to the west Coast. Of course your stock Z06 could be trailered since it's so fast? Couldn't expect an east coaster to drive a Z06 cross continent. Course I drove my modified Viper to Detroit and home again as well as drove it here from Ohio where I purchased it.


Ted

 

[1BADGTS]

Ok. I know this is turning into Drag Racing 101, but I cannot tell you guys how informative all this info is. I dont think there is a single thread that has so much helpful info on 1/4 mile racing techniques and tactics.

Ok, now,

1. what exactly is done during "Track Preparation"? What do the "track preparers" do to the track and who prepares the track?

2. Powershifting seems like it would break stuff. Is this a fairly safe tactic? Or is it kinda risky?

The track preps its surface (using various techniques to )clean off the built up rubber at the starting line.At Englishtown NJ (one of the top tracks in the country )they are known for their maintaince and in some cases liberal use of traction compound (VHT)Powershifting is not the greatest thing for a car.Powershift an 08 (esp if its cold out )and you better be one hell of a driver.

 

[1BADGTS]

Sheesh, and just when I was thinking that you had a clue (except for all the vette garbage on the Viper forums of course).

Yes all tracks use VHT. They normally don't use ir for time trials or slow cars. They use it sparingly as it's expensive. But here you're now implying that there's no advantage to adding it just before you run? You're wrong. You're full of innuendos, and bad advise on VHT etc. Write it down like it is. Write down that VHT sprayed immediately before your run and it can make a half sec. difference.

I'm wrong? I drive a Viper and state that Viper is best here on the Viper forums. You're wrong for posting vette garbage here instead of the vette forums.

I challenge you to drive to Mission Raceway and prove all your garbage. Hopefully you won't need to get your vette repaired on your way to the west Coast. Of course your stock Z06 could be trailered since it's so fast? Couldn't expect an east coaster to drive a Z06 cross continent. Course I drove my modified Viper to Detroit and home again as well as drove it here from Ohio where I purchased it.


Ted

Ted those half assed tracks in the middle of nowhere- where you race they may only use it for main events BUT AT a major TRACKS LIKE ENGLISHTOWN NJ they use VHT and prep the track for public test and tune nights.

 

[RTTTTed]

What? Mission Raceway a minor track? It's 50' below sea level and set more NHRA records than any other NHRA track during the day. SIR?

You're yappin through zero knowledge again.

Guess I'll go to some other thread where there's some intelligence on display instead of this piece of vetteforums.com

 

[1BADGTS]

Ps Comparing Mission Raceway to Englishtown is like comparing whatever team won the GREY Cup (or whatever its called )with the Steelers.I would venture to say more people go thru E-Town the weekend of Summer Nats than thru Mission for their race season

 

[1BADGTS]

What? Mission Raceway a minor track? It's 50' below sea level and set more NHRA records than any other NHRA track during the day. SIR?

You're yappin through zero knowledge again.

Guess I'll go to some other thread where there's some intelligence on display instead of this piece of vetteforums.com

Ted HELLO on a SLOW race season over 500,000.00 people atted Englishtown.

 

[1BADGTS]

Typical, Ted is trying to compare a track in the BACKWOODS of BC with one of probably the top 5 drag racing facilitys in the world.

 

[CitySnake]

It would be greatly appreciated if you all could keep you comments to the topic rather than those making them.

Much appreciated,

The slackest mod.

 

[GR8_ASP]

We are talking about Evan Smith here .The man makes more runs in a week than most drivers due in a lifetime.(the results he has had driving everything from the Saleen S-7 to the latest Shelby Supersnake speak for themselves. This is the exact reason top level exec from Ford ,Shelby,Saleen Roosh ect make it a point for him to test their latest models)In 3-4 passes Smith can tell judge the track,the car ect.The last time he ran the 11.3 in my 08 (3rd pass )he felt given the weather and track conditions and DRIVING METHOD that day an 11.3 was a good time.However had i elected to let him loosen up a bit an 11.2 or 11.1 was possible.(no 10 second run though ).Anyone who knows Evan knows when he loosens up a bit things can get broken (in 2002 he went thru a clutch and tranny in the not finished Ford GT prototype in an afternoon at Englishtown.John Coletti who was head of Ford SVT did not care because the reason was was driving the car in the first place was Coletti wanted the best possible ET )since in Smiths opinion there was no way that car was going 10s that day we stopped rather than beating the Hell out of it for a tenth or two.

I wish you would get off your high freaking horse when you respond. It is very tiring. You want to give a teach that Evan is this that and the other. I don't give a rats ass. You avoided the meat of the response entirely. That is a moderate weather day at best, very few runs and with pre-conditions about how hard he could run it, and now stating that track conditions deteriorated drastically through the day and you calling it the best possible. Especially when you are telling someone who just showed a pretty good set of runs on a fast track at a much better density altitude and telling him he could not do it faster than Evan did it under the lmiting circumstances you previously described.

We have had some good posts back and forth but I do not pray to the god of Evan or anyone else. It is a freaking car. He is not the only human being who can drive a car to its potential.

 

[black mamba1]

Forgive me if this was discussed earlier, what tire pressure do you guys run for the 1/4 mile?

 

[1BADGTS]

I wish you would get off your high freaking horse when you respond. It is very tiring. You want to give a teach that Evan is this that and the other. I don't give a rats ass. You avoided the meat of the response entirely. That is a moderate weather day at best, very few runs and with pre-conditions about how hard he could run it, and now stating that track conditions deteriorated drastically through the day and you calling it the best possible. Especially when you are telling someone who just showed a pretty good set of runs on a fast track at a much better density altitude and telling him he could not do it faster than Evan did it under the lmiting circumstances you previously described.

We have had some good posts back and forth but I do not pray to the god of Evan or anyone else. It is a freaking car. He is not the only human being who can drive a car to its potential.

Facts are facts the man recorded the second fastest run EVER in a stock Viper EVER .The man in reference gets PAID to do this for a reason Its highly improbable that very few people in this country are cabable of running a bone stock Viper on stock tires better no matter the weather or track besides Smith or Furman and ALL the records indicate that.Because of nonsense like this you have people thinking if someone with 500 horsepower ran 11.5 on pilots then that same person can run 10.8 on Pilots .It doesnot work like that.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Some people can listen to reason and others cannot. I see exactly which side you are on. 'Nuff said

 

[Hamrhead]

Yes all tracks use VHT. They normally don't use ir for time trials or slow cars. They use it sparingly as it's expensive.


Ted

FWIW, Both E-Town and Atco (Both in NJ) prep their tracks very well, and yes, even on the Test 'n Tune nights when the 'slow cars' run.

In fact, Atco preps so well at times, that stock Vipers have snapped half-shafts and blown rear ends running on the stock RunFlats!