My Viper Ownership Experience ***** So Far - Need Some Words of Encouragement

[SkyBob]

4. I do not think this is a description of a bad Viper experience at all. It sounds like it is a description of a bad purchasing procedure that has nothing to do with the type of car involved.

5. How much did you pay for the car? If the price seemed too good to be true, it seems that it was.

Be nice, now. He feels bad enough as it is. Don't rub it in.

Bob

 

[05SRT]

05SRT said: "I bought a 2005 vert with 33000 miles on May 2nd."

Questions:

1. From whom did you buy the car?

2. Did you look at its maintainenece history before you bought it? Did you have the car carefully inspected before you bought it? After all, it did have 33,000 miles on it. If so, who did the inspection? If, not, did you buy the car "as is" or was there some remaining warranty of some type?

3. The part of your post about the extended warranty does not make sense to me. The car is an 05. You bought it in May of 09. Unless it was on some type of extended warranty already, an 05 would be off of warranty by May, 2009. I may be mistaken but I do not think that you can get a legitimate, reasonably priced extended warranty if a car is already off of warranty.

4. I do not think this is a description of a bad Viper experience at all. It sounds like it is a description of a bad purchasing procedure that has nothing to do with the type of car involved.

5. How much did you pay for the car? If the price seemed too good to be true, it seems that it was.

I guess my dillusion came from owning 3 Japanese cars before this purchase, including a 350Z with 60,000 miles that ran like new when I traded it in. I do indeed have the service records, including every oil change performed at a dealership, and there's nothing tipping me off to an impending engine failure. I can easily say in retrospect that I'd like to have had a warranty, but it's too late to be concerned with hindsight. I won't be convinced that it's acceptable for a car with 33000 miles on it should have put me through this debacle. I've wanted a viper for years, and now I have it. My only concern now is to get it running properly.

 

[05SRT]

Well, there's no sugar coating for this, bro, that just *****, really sorry, bogus dealerhip for sure. Try to hang in there ... hey it can only get better, right! Um, right?

The first think I think of from you describing a tick that increases with rpm & exhaust popping is an exhaust manifold leak. But from what you've experienced, it could be any freakin thing, I'd really not like the electrical tape on the harness, etc. Good luck, I hope you can get to a good dealer.

I've considered an exhaust manifold leak as well, but I'm not sure how to pinpoint one short of removing the manifold and inspecting for defects. I'm pulling the valve covers now, but I'll likely remove the manifolds next if I don't see anything unusual.

 

[TCurtner]

I guess my dillusion came from owning 3 Japanese cars before this purchase, including a 350Z with 60,000 miles that ran like new when I traded it in. I do indeed have the service records, including every oil change performed at a dealership, and there's nothing tipping me off to an impending engine failure. I can easily say in retrospect that I'd like to have had a warranty, but it's too late to be concerned with hindsight. I won't be convinced that it's acceptable for a car with 33000 miles on it should have put me through this debacle. I've wanted a viper for years, and now I have it. My only concern now is to get it running properly.

Understood, but once you get it running properly you'll be extremely glad that you have it. The Viper is Amazing. Please be patient, listen to the general distillation of what the other forum owners are saying, and get it fixed right from a recommended dealer. My horror stories are not quite as bad as yours, but definitely in a previous chapter of your book!
My Viper is the best car that I've ever had, and there's not room to list all that I have had, here.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I've considered an exhaust manifold leak as well, but I'm not sure how to pinpoint one short of removing the manifold and inspecting for defects. I'm pulling the valve covers now, but I'll likely remove the manifolds next if I don't see anything unusual.

If you list your location in your profile we might be able to direct you towards an expert nearby.

 

[05SRT]

If you list your location in your profile we might be able to direct you towards an expert nearby.

Done.
I know I'm near Roanoke, and it sounds like that's my number 1 option.

 

[08ACRVTEN00GTS]

Dave at Roanoke is a great Viper Technician, he will take care of you.

 

[05SRT]

Just removed the valve cover and the problem is quite clear. Two bent rods at cylinder 7. Next question is why? I removed the rockers, rods and valve springs, and the valves are moving smoothly, with what appears to be full travel.

 

[Bobpantax]

Hi 05SRT. You said that you looked at the service records of the car but you did not indicate who you bought the car from. It sounds like the service records may have either been incomplete or falsified. You might want to go to Roanoke and have them pull up the records. Any service done by a dealer will show on the computer. If you were shown records that were represeneted to be complete and they were willfully not complete, you may have a case, depending on applicable state law, to set aside the purchase based on fraud in the inducement.

 

[Tabs1]

Bent rods? I wonder if that transplanted engine was ever forced induced or over-revved.

 

[09 Venom]

Just removed the valve cover and the problem is quite clear. Two bent rods at cylinder 7. Next question is why? I removed the rockers, rods and valve springs, and the valves are moving smoothly, with what appears to be full travel.

05SRT.....please..go to roanoke or woodhouse and let an experienced Viper tech look at it..only way I would feel secure. I know it is a ***** transporting the car but at least you will have piece of mind afterwards.

 

[vipernut94]

Done.
I know I'm near Roanoke, and it sounds like that's my number 1 option.

Hey 05 SRT,

Good move! I have known Dave for over 10 years, and he is a great Viper Tech. John Gastman is one of the owners, and he is wonderful to work with as well.

I'm only 20 minutes from you (Springfield). When Dave gets you up and running, we'll have to get together. If you are interested in performance driving events, our IL club has a great event schedule.

Good Luck,
Scott

 

[Keik SRT-10]

Wow that sux man, sorry to hear about this.

 

[05SRT]

Thanks for the sympathy. I've been putting as much free time as possible into this thing, and I'm confident I'll have it back on the road as soon as I get 2 new push rods. Luckily I have a complete, though damaged, engine waiting for me to pick up from the devil's dealership tomorrow. That should equate to more spare parts than I'll ever need. I've inspected as much of the internals as I can, and I feel like the rods took all of the punishment. Wish me luck...

 

[05SRT]

Hey 05 SRT,

Good move! I have known Dave for over 10 years, and he is a great Viper Tech. John Gastman is one of the owners, and he is wonderful to work with as well.

I'm only 20 minutes from you (Springfield). When Dave gets you up and running, we'll have to get together. If you are interested in performance driving events, our IL club has a great event schedule.

Good Luck,
Scott

I'll definitely let you know when I'm back in business. The Mt. Auburn road between Decatur and Springfield is a short, but fun drive. I've also got an '08 Hayabusa that I've taken down that path a few times, and I'm anxious to do the same in the Viper.

 

[GTS1997]

Don't know if this will help but........... back in 1998 or so my father and I owned a VR4 (Mitsubishi 3000 GT Twin Turbo), and we had to have the engine replaced. Thankfully it costs so much (I don't remember the price) that dear old dad had to use a credit card to pay for it.

This turned out to be a blessing in disguise because the newer(used) engine went bad soon after the mechaninc replaced the old engine. We were at a loss as to what to do. We questioned Dad's credit card company about how to fight the charges (credit card company's are supposed to fight for their consumers' rights.....and thankfully they did.)

The credit card company told us to take the car to 2 different ASCE (I think) certified mechanic shops, and if they BOTH agreed and put in writting that the engine was defective or damaged by the orignal mechanic, we would owe nothing on the credit card we used to purchase the engine.


Well, we had the car towed to 2 different shops and they both put in writting that the engine was either bad when we bought it or foo-bared by the 1st shop.


BLING BLING BLING BLING!!!!! we owed $0,000.00 on the replacement engine, and we were able to find a different replacement engine. (After this EVERYTHING went back to stock...and stayed that way...no more nightmare )




All of that to say this........... If you purchased the engine on Ebay, There must be some type of buyers protection that EBAY offers......and if you used a credit card, call the credit card company and ask how to fight your charges.......THERE IS A WAY !!!!!

Good Luck, and BE PATIENT. I know it ***** but what doesn't kill you can make you stronger....if you let it.

Now if I can only find the right affordable Viper to buy

 

[whatever]

My My My, I just don't understand. I am from "the devils dealership" as he describes it, and when this owner comes in he is nothing but nice, and we are likewise. This customer buys a viper 600 miles away at a dealer, gets it here, it starts knocking due to a spun #2 rod bearing, which is common for these and he is mad at us! He was given the option of a new short block assembly, taking his engine out disassembling it and having the machine shop check the crank, rod etc, or buy a used engine from a junkyard or Ebay. He opted for the latter, which tells me who in their right frame of mind buys an engine from a junkyard for a Viper? A neon, ram, caravan, I could see, but a Viper? And with no warranty also?

He does have a point about the amount of time it took, the wrong engine was shipped, parts were not close by to order, and the techs mom did pass away, all leading up to more time than normal for this repair.

We have been more than accomodating for him at the devils dealership, letting him come back to the shop and look at the progress anytime that he wanted, answer any questions he had etc.

I just don't understand how the dealer let you down? You opted for a junkyard engine with no warranty. We would be more than happy to look at the tick knock noise for you, its just not a reality to do it for free. Now as far as Slysnake and Coloviper stating the mechanic is not very good and it was a botched transplant, when that is nothing of the sorts.

This may make the Viper owners here mad, but I am sorry, the Viper is a very fast, very ****, easily engineered basic muscle car. I really like them, but they are extremely simple, not rare as far as design for the electrical or mechanical aspect. The engine can be removed in less that 3 hours easily. As far as several stating they do not like the electrical tape on the wiring harness, well tell the factory because that is what they use.The wiring harness in the Viper is not gold plated or dipped in some special substance, it is no different than a Neon wiring harness as far as design and build, different connectors of course. The bolts are not magical, powertrain managment is not designed by NASA. I mean they put this set up in the Ram. That being said, the body design is very nice.
Also the only thing that makes anyone a "Viper Tech" is experience, and taking a 5 day class with Chrysler, that yields you some books and a patch. Now I am not knocking that, I am just saying, the car is extremely simple and easy to work on.

So just remember there are two sides to every story, and I truly did feel bad for the customer spending that kind of money and leaving with a ticking engine.

Yes, one more thing, how did I find these posts, since I don't own a viper? Well on my own time doing a little research on common problems for Vipers with bent pushrods, case studies tech info etc. Oh and by the way, all on my own time, trying to help a guy I don't even know.

Sincerly "The Devils Dealership"

 

[jdavis]

Whatever, you make some valid points. Thanks for taking the time to give us the a perspective from the dealer's side of the issue. It is obvious that the OP is upset and frustrated over this situation with his new purchase as anyone would be. However, when one makes a purchase (used car and later a used engine) and things go south, we look for someone or something to blame. It looks as if you got caught in the middle through no fault of your own.
Lets all this gets resolved in a satisfactory way for both of you.

 

[plumcrazy]

im waiting for bob to continue with his questioning.....lol

good post by whatever !

 

[Sittingbull101]

Never buy a modded Viper, that is the lesson here.

 

[PAvenomRT/10]

Bobpantax is being a bit rough in his critique above. Clearly, this has been a bad Viper experience so far regardless of the cause or whether the car was thoroughly inspected before purchase or not. In the unlikely event the car was NOT inspected before purchase, loosing a bearing on a motor with 33K is not something you would anticipate or even detect in an inspection of the car. I think this new Viper owner deserves a break given his unsatisfactory experience to date. Hopefully, it will improve soon after taking the advice of visiting Woodhouse or Roanoke.
PAViperRT/10

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

I'm assuming you bought it at a great price, being an 05 with 33000 miles on it. The previous owner could have had it Super Charged and/or just ran the piss out of it and didn't maintain it well. Either way Viper are great cars with very strong motors. Use some of the money you saved on the purchase and work out all the kinks and it will last you forever.
Keep your chin up. The Vipers are badasss

 

[05SRT]

To set the record straight, I never asked for an engine from a junkyard. As stated previously, it was done without my consent, and I can't understand how a 1995 motor could have been accidentally ordered. I authorized purchase of an engine from eBay with 10K miles on it that was said to "run perfect". It's true, everybody was quite civil, as I don't like to make a fuss when anyone still has possession of my car, engine, etc, and I didn't know that I had 2 bent rods until I returned home. I just couldn't understand why nobody removed the valve cover at the shop. As for not opting for an engine rebuild, the tech that you fired two weeks into this told me that it would be more expensive, and a used engine from eBay would be my best option for my budget.

Wow, I did say 'devil's dealership'. That was classless, and I apologize. I've spent too much time with a beer in hand over these past few weeks.

 

[jdavis]

'05, if I understand this correctly, you currently have the ebay purchased engine that you initially requested in the car which turned out to be not as advertised. Your "devil's dealership" installed the engine that you desired (after the first faux pas which may have been misrepresented by the seller) from an unknown ebay source and the condition was unvarified by you prior to the purchase. IMHO, your recourse should be to the ebay seller rather than your dealer /installer. Other than the amount of lost time, your dealer accomplished the engine swap as you directed and you got what you asked for. The faulty engine is the fault of the ebay seller.
The former employee who advised you to get the salvaged engine rather than a new or rebuilt short block to save a few bucks gave you bad advice. He neglected the fact that a warranted new or rebuilt engine might have saved you a great deal of aggravation and money in the long run. A slavaged engine could have been subjected to any sort of abuse which could have been unknown to the seller.
I sincerely hope that you get this sad situation resolved and that you will be able to enjoy your Viper ownership.

 

[05SRT]

In retrospect, I felt that the technician that I was dealing with at the beginning (no longer with the organization) was not totally committed to my best interests, and it left me with a bad taste in my mouth. As obstacles continued to mount, I became more and more irritated. Upon arriving home with my rattling car, it turned into anger, and I wrote the initial post to solicit feedback, while simultaneously taking a jab at the the dealership. Each evening that I spent working under the hood, I again became angry and needed a scapegoat. Now, I'm just interested in fixing the car. I'm convinced that all I need to do is replace 2 lifters, and I'll be back in business. If that's the case, then the eBay seller might also be free from guilt, as the lifters could have gummed up while the engine was out of the car. Today, I'll be paying a visit to the "devil's dealsership" to make ammends. Lots of lessons learned over these past 2 months, and I expect to be much more knowledgeable about Viper engines in the near future. I guess I'll need to pick up a manual to get the bolt pattern and torque for heads and intake.

 

[Solid Red 98]

The thing that has to be ultimately acknowledged here is that despite the records that can be obtained, the inspections that can be made short of a tear down, and all the testimonials about the car's maintenance and handling, it is, in the end a used car--a used high performance car. These things are not built or designed for longevity. If that is important to you, get a Toyota Camry. While Vipers are extremely stout, they are "fun cars" that see way more of their share of burnouts, WOT attacks, track time, and general beating on, etc. Under that shiny low mile exterior and perfect interior can be a smoking pile that only really shows after you spend some time together. It happens, so don't feel bad. Methodically get your engine sorted by someone who knows--with references and enjoy the beast. Look on the bright side, you could be driving a Lambo or Ferrari with yearly maintenance that greatly exceeds the price of your troubles so far. Don't get discouraged. Vipers are special and once yours is dialed, your experience will be reborn. Good luck with your machine and stay the course. You will be happy you did.

 

[theviper]

Sounds like you bought a car that was domestically abused by its former owner. Either fix it at Roanoke (you're probably wasting your time elsewhere) or sell it.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

In retrospect, I felt that the technician that I was dealing with at the beginning (no longer with the organization) was not totally committed to my best interests, and it left me with a bad taste in my mouth. As obstacles continued to mount, I became more and more irritated. Upon arriving home with my rattling car, it turned into anger, and I wrote the initial post to solicit feedback, while simultaneously taking a jab at the the dealership. Each evening that I spent working under the hood, I again became angry and needed a scapegoat. Now, I'm just interested in fixing the car. I'm convinced that all I need to do is replace 2 lifters, and I'll be back in business. If that's the case, then the eBay seller might also be free from guilt, as the lifters could have gummed up while the engine was out of the car. Today, I'll be paying a visit to the "devil's dealsership" to make ammends. Lots of lessons learned over these past 2 months, and I expect to be much more knowledgeable about Viper engines in the near future. I guess I'll need to pick up a manual to get the bolt pattern and torque for heads and intake.

It is classy that you have the balls to post this and I hope you have better fortune in the future for it.

Good luck and please ask if you need something.

 

[05SRT]

Revitalizing the post gives me a chance to provide a quick update on my findings: Upon removing the LH cylinder head, I discovered the exhaust valve seat protruding about 3/16" out of the bottom. I'm waiting for a new head gasket from Viper Specialty Performance, and then I'll reassemble everything using the head off of my original motor and known-good lifters, rods etc. I should have it running by the end of the weeks, and I hope to pay a visit to Roanoke to check the tune shortly thereafter. Incidentally, the car came to me with Mopar racing ECU and exhaust, so it's evident that the previous owner did get much enjoyment out of it before selling.