And since you decided to enter into the spirited topic could you tell us How many Vipers (GENERATIONS )you have owned (including generations and timeline )How you have contributed to the VCA in that timeline .Performance part wise (this specific topic )who did,does you work ,inturn what work have you had done how much have you spent What specific racing have you done inturn what championships have you won .What specific magazines have featured you and your car in ect.At this TIME OF THE YEAR i rarely own a Viper come spring thats a different story as every year give or take (since 1993 ) i grap one for the summer months .Should i find the need to drive one on a nice day i can always take EX VCA pres Joe Houss Gen 4 for a ride )or grap one of Darren Buhlers personal cars IF you really need to know.Yeah, I have a Viper. Do you?
N/A Cam setup??
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GTS-R 001
Enthusiast
OK,
Back the F off of Red,
he has a modified GTS with a ROE,
I have had a head cams package from GG and my 2000 GTS creampuff put 610 to the rear wheels with that and a mopar Performance ECU, the one that was available in 2000 AD.
I have spent $150 K at DC performance
23K at Exotic Engines
30 K at Valaya
12K at Roe Racing
$20K at Partrack
Many many K else where on other crap that you only have to look at my garage sale thread to see the tip of the iceberg
I presently own a 2006 FE coupe #50 of 200
I have owned
1x 1992 RT/10
2x 1996 GTS's #001 and a 38 mile one
2x 1997 B&W RT/10's
2x 1998 GT2's #001 and #070
1x 2000 GTS w/1000 HP
1x 2003 SRT convert
1x 2004 Competition Coupe
1x 2006 VCA Coupe #50 of 50
Who's list is longer, yours or mine?
CHILL OUT NOW PLEASE!!!!!!!
Pal you dont tell me to chill out I RACE ALL OF my Vipers 150 GRAND =Thats supposed to impress me I have spent more that that on repairs over the years on my cars from ACTUAL RACING.The last thing i need is some NEWBE(or you ) who HAS NEVER SPENT A DIME OR WON A RACE IN A Viper telling me about NA VIPER Motors .You has a Viper with 600 to the wheels -SO WHAT do you ever run it at a track (if so what time did it run )OK,
Back the F off of Red,
he has a modified GTS with a ROE,
I have had a head cams package from GG and my 2000 GTS creampuff put 610 to the rear wheels with that and a mopar Performance ECU, the one that was available in 2000 AD.
I have spent $150 K at DC performance
23K at Exotic Engines
30 K at Valaya
12K at Roe Racing
$20K at Partrack
Many many K else where on other crap that you only have to look at my garage sale thread to see the tip of the iceberg
I presently own a 2006 FE coupe #50 of 200
I have owned
1x 1992 RT/10
2x 1996 GTS's #001 and a 38 mile one
2x 1997 B&W RT/10's
2x 1998 GT2's #001 and #070
1x 2000 GTS w/1000 HP
1x 2003 SRT convert
1x 2004 Competition Coupe
1x 2006 VCA Coupe #50 of 50
Who's list is longer, yours or mine?
CHILL OUT NOW PLEASE!!!!!!!
GTS-R 001
Enthusiast
10.4 was the last run I made, but that was not NA, but if you want to see the slip I threw them all out, I have other ways to measure my Diiiickkkkk.
Isn't it about time you relaxed, have a drink or 4 or 5
Why you so bent and twisted over cam anyways?
Did you have a vipair in your NA car, Norm did and he was the fastest NA car, right?
Very interesting you spent 150 grand with DC .Since you obviously TRUST DANS opinion you should read the above.Dan consulted on my car MANY TIMES OVER THE YEARS.He felt for my application and the times my car had achieved a SOLID CAM was not worth anything.
Norm was the fastest but not on pump gas and he runs a hyd CAM .The fastest on pump gas 10.3 at 135 car(YOUR TALKING 540 STROKER )LPE Motor.NHRA PRO DRAG RACER Don Nace ran 10.5 at near 134 on 490 cubic inches.Don and i both share the same basic motor build that Nick at Modern did.If i appear testy its for good reason as over the years i spent a ton on that GEN 2 (MONEY AND TIME) .I learned the hard way (through the wallet )what works and what does not .When i hear of someone offering something iam natuarlly skeptical.
BAD68GTO
Enthusiast
I don't post much on the Morgue, but this thread caught my attention. Listen, we all have bad days, but beating a horse about track times is different than a dyno and I am so great is really silly. So now I suppose a certain someone wants to see my resume of cars, who I am and a photo of my hands to make sure I know how to hold a wrench. I own an 00 GTS 10 LB Roe, GG heads, SOLID CAM and was going for the Roe world record for pump and DR's and hope to break it this year AT THE TRACK to take it from 1Tony1 (Tony Armor). I also own a SOLID ROLLER 68 GTO with ported heads, an NA build for the street and strip and a stock 08 SRT-10 Coupe. I also do a lot of my own work and have done a bunch of engine builds myself, but now I only tune and do some stuff I feel like it as I am fat, lazy and have money to blow.
Okay, now that I put that on the table I can say this. Greg Good has been a very reliable person to deal with. I talked to him about my heads and possible cam and me knowing the benefits of a solid cam for aggressive performance from my other cars and builds, I followed his advice and purchased his cam (BTW, I hope people know he hardly makes sh*t on a cam and he is honest as can be and is NOT pushy). I am quite happy with the cam, the package, his work and his timeline was on the money. I would not hesitate to do the SAME DEAL again with GG or with the products. I dropped a push rod into my engine on dyno day and did not get time to adjust the valves completely and had the dyno blocked for time and still turned over 700 RWHP at the wheels with the valves not even adjusted on a Roe on pump, through filter, no DW pulley and it isn’t even adjusted to tune it in. Oh yes, I have 39K on my car too, so i drive it and am hoping to get at the 800 RWHP mark on a Roe and yes, wish me luck but my solid cam and lifters I am VERY happy with and think that it will help me get there or darn close. I am the last cheerleader and again not a VCA member and barely post here (on VA), but I give a lot of credit to GG for his knowledge and his integrity. 1BADGTS, I don't think you realize how you are coming across but you imply GG is a salesman of sorts "pushing" his stuff. Greg is a head porter and in that, has to sell cams, lifters and springs and such and hell man, there is NO $ in selling that crap, the money is in labor and even that is not great. Get Greg to port your stuff, but GET IN LINE as he has a lot of business coming to him and for GOOD reason.
Disclaimer: NOBODY asked me to write this and Greg did not even contact me. I talk a lot of smack sometimes, but people that know me KNOW I am a person of my word-period. Gary
Okay, now that I put that on the table I can say this. Greg Good has been a very reliable person to deal with. I talked to him about my heads and possible cam and me knowing the benefits of a solid cam for aggressive performance from my other cars and builds, I followed his advice and purchased his cam (BTW, I hope people know he hardly makes sh*t on a cam and he is honest as can be and is NOT pushy). I am quite happy with the cam, the package, his work and his timeline was on the money. I would not hesitate to do the SAME DEAL again with GG or with the products. I dropped a push rod into my engine on dyno day and did not get time to adjust the valves completely and had the dyno blocked for time and still turned over 700 RWHP at the wheels with the valves not even adjusted on a Roe on pump, through filter, no DW pulley and it isn’t even adjusted to tune it in. Oh yes, I have 39K on my car too, so i drive it and am hoping to get at the 800 RWHP mark on a Roe and yes, wish me luck but my solid cam and lifters I am VERY happy with and think that it will help me get there or darn close. I am the last cheerleader and again not a VCA member and barely post here (on VA), but I give a lot of credit to GG for his knowledge and his integrity. 1BADGTS, I don't think you realize how you are coming across but you imply GG is a salesman of sorts "pushing" his stuff. Greg is a head porter and in that, has to sell cams, lifters and springs and such and hell man, there is NO $ in selling that crap, the money is in labor and even that is not great. Get Greg to port your stuff, but GET IN LINE as he has a lot of business coming to him and for GOOD reason.
Disclaimer: NOBODY asked me to write this and Greg did not even contact me. I talk a lot of smack sometimes, but people that know me KNOW I am a person of my word-period. Gary
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GTS-R 001
Enthusiast
See, you know your ****e, alot of people on this forum could learn a lot from your experience
GTS-R 001
Enthusiast
Greg Good Cylinder Heads
Enthusiast
It's really funny how the hydraulic vs. solid issue can polarize people. Here is a post from an ongoing thread at Speedtalk about this subject. This fella that I'm quoting below saw a very solid gain going to solid lifters.
The thread is here: run a hydraulic roller on a solid camshaft? • Speed Talk
"Bouncing your original question all the way to the end here Danny, I have some fresh (if reversed) relevant information. (It's even from a Hemi, although a little larger than your 2009 EMC entry...)
I was at a dyno session today on a 10.5:1, 2 x 4 in line Edelbrock AVS-carbed Stage V head castings 572" aluminum Hemi with a moderate hydraulic roller*, running on 91 octane with 31° advance. Disappointingly, it couldn't break 700 HP, which was way soft for these components, normally used with a solid flat tappet cam. *I don't have the cam and spring specs., but it was the recommended combo from a very major cam company.
Rather than tear it apart to look for issues, the builder swapped out the lifters in favour of solids lashed at 0.012"/0.014" hot.** Bingo: 745 HP @ 6,200 and 710 lb-ft. @ 5,100! **Yes I know, it may not start after the shop cools down, since it's dropping to 7° F. here tonight, but...
I expected maybe a 20-25 HP gain, but 50 really leaves me wondering exactly what the (Bleep) was going wrong with the juice lifters.."
The thread is here: run a hydraulic roller on a solid camshaft? • Speed Talk
"Bouncing your original question all the way to the end here Danny, I have some fresh (if reversed) relevant information. (It's even from a Hemi, although a little larger than your 2009 EMC entry...)
I was at a dyno session today on a 10.5:1, 2 x 4 in line Edelbrock AVS-carbed Stage V head castings 572" aluminum Hemi with a moderate hydraulic roller*, running on 91 octane with 31° advance. Disappointingly, it couldn't break 700 HP, which was way soft for these components, normally used with a solid flat tappet cam. *I don't have the cam and spring specs., but it was the recommended combo from a very major cam company.
Rather than tear it apart to look for issues, the builder swapped out the lifters in favour of solids lashed at 0.012"/0.014" hot.** Bingo: 745 HP @ 6,200 and 710 lb-ft. @ 5,100! **Yes I know, it may not start after the shop cools down, since it's dropping to 7° F. here tonight, but...
I expected maybe a 20-25 HP gain, but 50 really leaves me wondering exactly what the (Bleep) was going wrong with the juice lifters.."
He also knows his stuff and is very very REALISTIC about what one can gain using specific components .Just an FYI, Dan is very conservative, he always plays it safe
I see your a JERSEY GUY also The entire thread has become conviluted and it has become conviluted because THE ISSUE i have raised has not been addressed .My old Viper was built to win races on the racetrack and also be streetdriven.The guys i used to race with (and some were NHRA PROFESSIONAL DRAG RACERS )and myself did not care in the least bit what a dyno said IF the car was not faster down the strip or on the street . Not one shread of evidence has been provided to establish the fact that a solid cam HAS the ability to make a VIPER faster down a drag strip(QUITE the opposite in fact as all the NA record holders run HYD ).If that evidence were provided myself and guys like Nace would have run one in a minute .(Nace at one time held an NHRA RECORD for fastest 4 cylinder dragstrip pass ever .Money was no object to the guy dragracing his Viper was a hobby .He ran mid 10s on a non stroker motor using a hyd cam )
If you look back over the entire content of this thread its always i have this done to my Viper and i make this amount of DYNO HORSEPOWER .Its NEVER once been i have this done to my Viper, i make this amount of DYNO HORSEPOWER and that DYNO HORSEPOWER enables my car to run x at the track.The difference guys is this the vast majority are content to say they have x amount of power and X amount of power SHOULD TRANSPOSE itself to this at the strip.They dont really know if SHOULD is going to happen because their cars NEVER go to the track.When i was racing the car went to the dyno and from there it went 5 minutes away to Englishtown to make 20 passes to see if SHOULD really was.
I was watching my kids' dwarf chinese hamsters in their cage this morning...I couldn't help but notice that one of them seemed to be caught in a loop. One of the hamsters kept repeatedly running from the wheel, to the water bottle, to the food bowl and back to the wheel...over and over and over again. I was mesmerized...this kept going on feverishly even as I left for work this morning. As I was driving, it dawned on me that I know someone else on this site caught in endless loop just like that hamster. 
Insanity is saying or doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result every time. I'm about ready to close this thread due to insanity.
Insanity is saying or doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result every time. I'm about ready to close this thread due to insanity.
vpower01
Viper Owner
Good coffee reading, i love these threads they are just fun.
BAD68GTO
Enthusiast
Have you ever considered that the NA guys in Vipers are guys that are into only moderate performance? ALL the really fast time slip junkies with Vipers are TT guys and hell the NA times on Vipers ARE LAME. So as a mild performance guy, you can dump $7.5K on a Roe new and get 700 HP, hell on all stock stuff I was running 10's on my Roe, or dump money into an NA build and hope you can make as much HP/TQ let alone time slip as a Roe-GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! That said, the NA guy is most likely on a budget, trying to get "some more power" and of course since it is NOT REALLY built up with stud girdles, splayed caps and all that jazz, it is a more milder build and hence a hydraulic cam. Ever consider that? If not, you should, because I would have went NA if there was not a LOT of inexpensive options for my car. My 68 Pontiac can't do TT's and such cheap, so I went NA and I went pretty all out (solid roller) but I would preferred to do a SC or TT all things being equal. Something to ponder and I think we understood your HP/TQ verses time argument, repeating it over and over is just getting old. I too would rather have time and street drivability over a dyno queen, but there is a STRONG correlation of HP/TQ on a dyno and time. My $.02
I have had a ton of blower Vipers tested by the MAGS =NONE of them could take one third of the punishment my NA car could take on a hot day once heatsoaked .READ RAPID RONNIES COMMENTS on this specific topic .My car was street driven 3000 miles per year and used as a mag test car by Evan Smith and his staff.Your Rowe car for example MIGHT last 6-7 runs ON A 95 DEGREE DAY WHILE A NA Car IS A DIFFERENT ANIMAL.Hey IF YOU DOUBT ME its easy for me to set up at Englishtown.I will put Evan in a 08 Gen 4 or heavily modded GEN 2 and let him hotlap the hell hot of it.THEN PUT HIM IN YOUR CAR =KABOOM . Plumcrazy KNOWS OF A VERY SPECIFIC supercharged VIPER (aton more advanced set up than your ROWE )that EVAN blew apart in 10 minutes one August day.I MEAN I DID THIS STUFF 10 YEARS AGO.ps The quality OF PARTS I HAD IN MY GEN 2 was EQUAL to or better than the parts Nick AT MODERN uses in his 1200 horsepower turbo Viper motors .CROWER I BEAM RODS ,ROSS FORGED ALUM PISTONS .Crank cro treated. Head Studs the motor was WAY WAY OVER BUILT.
The ABOVE IS WHY I WENT NA.
BAD68GTO
Enthusiast
Sure sounds like folks that did not have a WB installed, was not watching it as they clearly had a bad tune which is a LOT easier with higher power levels and a FI applicaiton of a TT or SC. Anyhow, off this thread I am back to watching snow melt, at least it is going somewhere....
BAD68GTO
Enthusiast
Of course a SC will get heat soaked, I fail to see the point... I have hotlapped my car at Atco on track days and it got heat soaked, but surely didn't break up! I also ran at Pocono with my Roe for 30 minute heats and it didn't blow up. You think a SC car blows up when beaten it appears from your posts if it is hot
This thread is crazy, so truly this is my last post on this thread and glad others chimed in for Greg Good, he certainly EARNED a lot of respect and trust. Cheers and off this thread, GaryYou are too funny lets just say you REALLY HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOUR IN FOR.Do me a favor call DC PERF ,Doug Levin Mark Jorgusen OR ANY TOP LEVEL BLOWER tuner AND tell them your going to hand the keys to your blown Viper OVER TO EVAN SMITH to hotlap as he sees fit on a 90 degrere day.I will bet you money THEY WILL TELL YOU NOT TO.Its a different world than YOU running the car.(as you dont get paid to test cars .)I will even go so far as to tell you when it will BLOW UP .First run he will base line it ,go right back around (NO COOLDOWN ) THIRD RUN (NO =COOLDOWN ENGINE TEMP OVER 230 HEATSOAKED LIKE CRAZY )he goes thru the starting line at 50 mph to see if he can go thru the traps at over 200 HOLDING 3-4 5 GEAR TO redline =KABOOM .Thats what gets them all.Of course a SC will get heat soaked, I fail to see the point... I have hotlapped my car at Atco on track days and it got heat soaked, but surely didn't break up! I also ran at Pocono with my Roe for 30 minute heats and it didn't blow up. You think a SC car blows up when beaten it appears from your posts if it is hot
Greg Good Cylinder Heads
Enthusiast
Only an idiot treats a modded car like that. OF COURSE...... no tuner in his right mind would let a customer turn the wheel over to a maniac.
Horsepower equals heat. If you're not making any, then yeah you can hot lap it all you want because it is not making enough power to hurt itself. That's the category you're in.
Sounds like you don't understand how to treat a car that makes a lot of power. That's about all you are saying with that last post.
To put it in perspective a buddy of mine PHIL C FROM Jackson NJ has a ROWE 8 lbs of BOOST on a forged motor.He also has a customer built MODERN PERF intercooler (HOLDS 3 GALLONS OF FLUID )Diamond Back hood (approx 50 k )in upgrades to race at ROAD ATLANTA .He would NEVER turn his car over
Really i did it for years in my NA car WITHOUT A PROBLEM .The topic of the discussion was WHY I WENT NA the above is why i wanted to be able to beat the HELL out of the car AND WIN RACES without a problem.Only an idiot treats a modded car like that. OF COURSE...... no tuner in his right mind would let a customer turn the wheel over to a maniac.
Horsepower equals heat. If you're not making any, then yeah you can hot lap it all you want because it is not making enough power to hurt itself. That's the category you're in.
Sounds like you don't understand how to treat a car that makes a lot of power. That's about all you are saying with that last post.
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