New Brakes Question - 2000 Non Ebs Gts

[DAMN YANKEE]

Quick question guys, after talking to Big Dave (always helpful and generous in knowledge and spirit) I have a question for those that have traded out their brakes...

1. If I take the stock fronts and put them on the rears....and then buy new fronts, why not just put stock 2000 front brakes all around. In other words, just replace the rears with a set of the fronts?

2. For a guy that does not race, but wants improved brakes over the original set-up, what is the right way to go.

I would prefer not to send anything out for powder coating. I would prefer not to swap out my brakes for rebuilt others.

Should I go to slotted rotors (new rotors?),

Thanks guys...

 

[99 R/T 10]

I have no real knowlede other than I know to go to either Tom (fuel&oil guy) or Dave, but I would guess that the stock front brakes work well on the rears with the SRT front because it would provide equal braking(MUCH MORE SO THAN THE STOCK SET). If you went with your stock fronts on all corners, the rears would have too much braking ability and would lock up too quickly.

I have Tom's 40MM rear brakes and love them!

What is ebs? Is that new kind of braking system?????????????

 

[DAMN YANKEE]

Should I also replace the "E" in the "Ebs" at the same time with an "A"....its getting complicated now.

I was thinking that with an apportionment valve I could get them balanced out.

Seems so much easier...

 

[Fatboy 18]

Good post Damn Yankee, I have been thinking exactly the same thing, there always seems to be plenty of stock calipers for sale in the classifieds! Intrested to see what this throws up!

 

[Dave's Big Brakes]

Quick question guys, after talking to Big Dave (always helpful and generous in knowledge and spirit) I have a question for those that have traded out their brakes...

1. If I take the stock fronts and put them on the rears....and then buy new fronts, why not just put stock 2000 front brakes all around. In other words, just replace the rears with a set of the fronts?

2. For a guy that does not race, but wants improved brakes over the original set-up, what is the right way to go.

I would prefer not to send anything out for powder coating. I would prefer not to swap out my brakes for rebuilt others.

Should I go to slotted rotors (new rotors?),

Thanks guys...

Hey Dan,

TO MUCH REAR BRAKE BIAS YOU"LL BE DRIVING BACKWARDS ALL THE TIME
This will not work , brake systems need BALANCE even with the pro valve it would be like cold tires, a wreck waiting to happen

Big Brake Dave

 

[DAMN YANKEE]

and, ladies and gentlemen, that answers that question!

Thanks Dave!

 

[VIPER BAZ UK]

The End........

 

[99 R/T 10]

Hey Dan,

TO MUCH REAR BRAKE BIAS YOU"LL BE DRIVING BACKWARDS ALL THE TIME
This will not work , brake systems need BALANCE even with the pro valve it would be like cold tires, a wreck waiting to happen

Big Brake Dave

I thiinkin said this I did..........................................................

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

I modified StopTech's graph (without permission, but I acknowledge their contribution!) It hopefully puts things in perspective. The data points are from cars without an adjustable proportioning valve.
Brake Balance
Even the 43mm single piston rear caliper on ABS cars is not good in that it would allow rear lock up. Putting equal size calipers on front and back would place the brake balance waaaay to the right. Very bad.

 

[dave6666]

So how do my SRT calipers front and rear work then on my ABS '01?

Aren't they bigger than 43mm?

 

[Dave's Big Brakes]

So how do my SRT calipers front and rear work then on my ABS '01?

Aren't they bigger than 43mm?

Magic Pure Magic

Big Brake Dave

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

So how do my SRT calipers front and rear work then on my ABS '01?

Aren't they bigger than 43mm?

Yes, waaaaay bigger than 43mm so the ABS system chops the line pressure to make them behave like smaller brakes. The advantage of larger rear brakes isn't from greater clamping force capability, but from being able to use larger pads and benefit from the longer life, reducing temperature rise, and bling.

Stoptech has an excellent article about ABS and big rear brakes. The beginning seems like just definitions, so be sure to read the whole thing.

StopTech : Balanced Brake Upgrades

 

[dave6666]

Tom... You said my favorite word.



OK. Time to read some technical stuff I suppose. BRB.

 

[Dave's Big Brakes]

OK. Time to read some technical stuff I suppose. BRB.[/quote]

Hey Dave,

All you need to know is DODGE/Chrylser engineers deceided that it was time to put real brakes on these Vipers, until 03 (same wt & HP) we had crap for brakes.
Comp Cpes use the same braking system as the SRT-10's do (exactly)
Enough said those little electrons do all the work
If nothing else We Now Have BLING baby

Big Brake Dave

 

[TexasPettey]

Quick question guys, after talking to Big Dave (always helpful and generous in knowledge and spirit) I have a question for those that have traded out their brakes...

1. If I take the stock fronts and put them on the rears....and then buy new fronts, why not just put stock 2000 front brakes all around. In other words, just replace the rears with a set of the fronts?

2. For a guy that does not race, but wants improved brakes over the original set-up, what is the right way to go.

I would prefer not to send anything out for powder coating. I would prefer not to swap out my brakes for rebuilt others.

Should I go to slotted rotors (new rotors?),

Thanks guys...

I took my Gen1 from stock to Tom's rear, to SS lines, to front brake ducts, and finally to Dave's SRT fronts. Each time, I drove it for about 6 months in between upgrades. Outside of Tom's rear, I don't see the other upgrades being useful for street driving. For the track, the upgrades are very worth while.

You already got the answers on the bias. As pointed out, the rear brakes on the pre '01 are undersized and could use some upgrade. I wonder if a proporting valve could do the same thing, since the prop valve removes rear pressure at peak. I bought Tom's rear brakes initially and stayed with the stock proportioning valve.

Here's the killer question for more brake performance: "Can you lock up your tires with the brakes you have now?" If you hit the brakes hard, at speed, and the front tire locks up, you don't need more brakes up front. You need more tire grip. More brakes just lock the tire earlier, especially on a non-ABS car. Your pedal modulation affects all 4 tires, not just one. On the street you'll often need the most braking when your tires are colder 'e.g. you weren't expecting to go full brakes when that deer crossed you at 100MPH' and the tires won't have as much traction as when hot from lots of turning on a track.

Most of the brake upgrades are there for track use, where there is lots of high speed braking. The brakes will get hot, R compound tires are really sticky, and the speed transitions are very extreme.

On the street, slotted rotors won't do any good. It's unlikely you would generate enough heat on the brakes to get the marginal benefit.

All that said, the 'bling' factor is low on the path I chose. I'm not much of a 'bling' guy for rotors and calipers, so it didn't matter for me. I was after price/performance for the track, and I think it's working out great.

 

[TexasPettey]

I was thinking that with an apportionment valve I could get them balanced out.

Seems so much easier...

I would think the same, but it's also a pain to get right. Since conditions change, etc., you have to err on the side of caution. As an example, I tuned my prop several times on the street. My first track event, I was locking the rears up big time. With the mismatch in street tires, I dialed in the prop valve to match those tires. When I got to the track, and my R compounds heated up, I had to rebalance.

All that is to say that there is no % number with an adjustable prop valve. So, you can just dial in 20% rear brake bias. It's all a 'feel' thing, which ends up being situation/condition dependent.

 

[DAMN YANKEE]

Thanks to all..

 

[ruckdr]

You can see I posted this back in 2005 after installing Tom's 40mm rear brakes. Since then, MANY sets have been installed on Vipers all across the country, with, I am sure, wit the same or better results (race tires, slicks).

http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-g...-thanks-tom-thanks-tom-thanks-tom-brakes.html

You won't be sorry.
Good luck