New member's/non-owner's/prospective buyer's take on the Gen V

[Bruce H.]

I've just joined the forum as I'm considering the purchase of the new model and I've been busy reading current threads here for days. I'm compelled to discuss my point of view, as an outsider, as I can see it differs from many who already own a Viper. I introduced myself here... http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/662834-New-track-enthusiast-member-intro?p=3158734#post3158734, and mentioned my track lapping day experience with a modified SupraTT, MR2T and Jag XKR (S/C 510 hp) most recently.

While I've always respected the Viper as a truly high performance car, and have enjoyed dicing it up with them on track for years, what's drawing me to it as a prospective buyer now for the first time is the push for refinement. It's not about the specific hp, or whether a C7 Stingray variant will make more or less power or accelerate quicker, or which will lap the Ring in the quickest time. I had my XKR on the road course within 24 hours of taking delivery, and might do the same with a Viper if it has some miles on it already, so I'm definitely into performance...but it needs to ace a lot more than that.

Exclusivity matters, and the Viper offers the exclusivity that Corvette and Porsche can't match. So does the XKR, Aston and Maserati that I chose between last time.

Luxury appointments, fit and finish, and technology matters. That's generally excluded both the Vette and Viper from many buyers short list in the past. I could never accept Chevrolet refining the Vette for almost 60 years and critics still complaining about an uncomfortable seat and cheap interior! That's all changing with the Vette and Viper, and I know owners of upscale brands are eagerly watching to see how well they can do it. That's where I'm at as I've narrowed my choice down to 2 or 3 models.

Handling/Performance. I see comments here about how the Viper wants to kill you. Not sure if some consider that a plus or not, but it's unlikely prospective buyers will. Hopefully that's not the case for an experienced driver. When Randy Pobst and another reviewer noted how the larger Viper brakes faded and the seat wasn't very comfortable, how the C6 ZR1 was a better driver on the track, and the Subaru BRZ would be more fun (or something to that effect) I just about took the Viper off my list. But I was encouraged to hear that all of those issues were being addressed, and I expect better reviews to come. If it's awesome on the track, but somethings else is better, I can handle that.

Current owners of Vipers obviously have their favorite Gen's, and some seem to quite dislike the Gen V. That's par for the forums and owners in general. There's still guys who think the '60's XKE is a more desirable car than the current XKR. I've owned and enjoyed them both, but newer really is better in just about every way. Embrace change, the future of most brands depend on it. In my case I want to buy a car under factory warranty, enjoy it for a couple of years, and sell it before it expires. I have to consider a newer model. Others that would consider any year, or have different priorities, are sure to find one they like as well!

So those are my thoughts as I consider the Viper. It's great looking, exclusive, very high performance, should hold its resale value reasonably well...and if they can put a comfortable seat in it, brakes that don't fade quickly on the track, and improve handling a little then it will have aced everything I'm looking for.

Cheers,

Bruce

 

[JAY]

Hi Bruce ! A few of us are getting together this Sunday in mississauga , if you want to join us just confirm on the Ontario Region page of VCA. It will be informal and lots of great people and good conversation ! I suggest you buy what makes you Happy. If you join the Ontario Region early then you will be in for a great year of events !
Cheers Jay

 

[Bruce H.]

Thanks Jay. I have to be somewhere else this Sunday, but I'll watch for a future meet! Do any of your local members do Mosport lapping events fairly regularly? I used to see a local ACR owner at Dexter Days a few years before he switched to a 911 GT3.

Bruce

 

[Policy Limits]

i ordered one for many of the same reasons you have and value. factory warranty, some refinement, exclusivity, great performance top the list. its not a daily like your jag but thats not a bad thing. totally go for it if u are able. life is short & when you're dead you're dead for a LONG time

 

[commandomatt]

Bruce,

Are you in a hurry ?

Of course the guys that have put their money on one wants you to do the same. Fact is that so far we have got very varied feedback on this new Generation. Some great....some not so great.

Seems like they are even trying to rectify some of as they are gearing up production......which is good.

Here's what I think. Let some of these cars end up in dealers show rooms, out on the streets, tracks and in more capable magazine tests.

Let this car prove itself. If it does as great as most of us hope, then there you have it.....get one. If it doesn't appear to meet the high standards that its promising....then look for something else.

I personally wouldn't consider this first year model (for a few reasons the Gen V just seem to have been released to soon) and I am certain they will refine this to be a much better car in the next year or two. But if you have to get a car this season...then at least get some real world feedback before you decide....don't base a 100K plus purchase on opinions from others that don't know more than you do about this new car.

Just my take

Matt

 

[AZTVR]

brakes that don't fade quickly on the track,

I wonder about that, myself. How does a company come up with a brake pad that high end sports car owners who never track their car would find acceptable and also meet the demands of a day of jounalistic track junkies' expectations? Most people that seriously track their cars use a pad that is either a race pad; or is clearly biased toward track use. I wonder what the compromises were for the Gen V.

 

[ViperSmith]

i mean, i also think it comes down to "what are the people that buy it going to use it for"

i've maintained that all along, if all the car needs are better brakes and better tires to dominate the track - track rats will do it.

the only people that seem obsessed with Laguna/ZR1 times are the bench racers.

me, i don't care either. this car is a fun DD for me.

if i wanted to track it, i'd probably change both, and still lose to people in miatas

 

[Bruce H.]

Thanks for the positive replies. I can easily wait, and hope to see the tweaks implemented before I have to make a purchase decision. I believe Randy Pobst is helping them sort some issues, and if they're committed to backing up the hype they will want to get it sorted as quickly as possible, and hopefully upgrade cars already produced if possible.

I wouldn't expect a race brake pad, or stock brakes suitable for racing, but I would expect stock brakes and tires that could stand up to an enthusiast doing a lapping day at 7/10ths. I think I read that the Viper has 4 piston caliper front brakes...there's a little room for improvement right there. My home track is Mosport. It's a high-speed track that tests tires and brakes to the max. On my 3rd lap in the 2 ton XKR I had all 4 street tires screaming like ***** chickens from T3's turn-in to long track-out, hit 140+ mph on the back straight approx. every 100 seconds, and hauled it back down to make T8 at the end of it like I've never done in other sports cars with track pads and R-compounds. No hint of fade, and the Dunlop Sport Maxx tires never got the least bit greasy, or show any signs of abuse. After a couple of sessions I had switched from full dynamic stability control to Trac DSC to no DSC to get the best launch onto the straight with a little more slide than the other settings would allow. The car was easy to control and very confidence inspiring.

The Viper should be at least as good since it's basically 100% focused on performance, with a form following function design that's stunning, and 800 lbs lighter than the XKR, so I'm quite hopeful they can make it perform very well. Not everyone will take it out to a track lapping day, but doesn't SRT give the impression that you could? Here's hoping they'll pull it off!

Bruce

 

[AJ usmc]

I'm a future owner and it has been my dream since I was a little kid to order one from the factory like in the old days and also to be the original owner. To many, I may still be a kid since I'm 19, and my dream may be a little cheesy, but my drive isn't and I'll be proud to roll with all of yall in two years and some months. In my opinion for those still deciding, go with the one that speaks to your heart. After all, isn't that why we buy these cars? Not that its bigger or faster then others, but it's a fun kick-ass car that appeals to us and our inner child. And to get one just to be better then someone else or those around you is kinda missing the point...

AJ.

 

[VENOM V]

I'm a future owner and it has been my dream since I was a little kid to order one from the factory like in the old days and also to be the original owner. To many, I may still be a kid since I'm 19, and my dream may be a little cheesy, but my drive isn't and I'll be proud to roll with all of yall in two years and some months. In my opinion for those still deciding, go with the one that speaks to your heart. After all, isn't that why we buy these cars? Not that its bigger or faster then others, but it's a fun kick-ass car that appeals to us and our inner child. And to get one just to be better then someone else or those around you is kinda missing the point...

AJ.

Excellent perspective from a young man that could teach a thing or two to those older kids who've lost their own perspective!

 

[Viper Grenade]

Gen 5 doesn't live upto its performance hype. Until it does (doubt it will), it will forever be know as the soft snake.

 

[HobokenViper]

I'm a future owner and it has been my dream since I was a little kid to order one from the factory like in the old days and also to be the original owner. To many, I may still be a kid since I'm 19, and my dream may be a little cheesy, but my drive isn't and I'll be proud to roll with all of yall in two years and some months. In my opinion for those still deciding, go with the one that speaks to your heart. After all, isn't that why we buy these cars? Not that its bigger or faster then others, but it's a fun kick-ass car that appeals to us and our inner child. And to get one just to be better then someone else or those around you is kinda missing the point...

AJ.

Probably the best post I've seen on the Gen V section yet. I couldn't agree more, and frankly I'm sick of all the "The Corvette ZR1 beat the new pre production Viper so I'm not getting one," nonsense. If you can't see that this car is what every kid and most adults dream about owning because it is so rare and exotic compared to anything else out there and you won't get one because there is another comparable car out there that bested it in one test by relative hairs, then you have lost your way in my opinion. SRT created a car that is as **** looking as they get, as fast as anyone can ever hope for (and even too powerful for most), and it is dramatically improved over even my beloved Gen IV. AJ, I'm glad you posted here, and hopefully some of the old grumps on this forum will learn to stop complaining about the negatives about the car and be thankful that they have been given the chance to own an amazing world class American Supercar. IMO this is the new golden age of sports cars, and the Viper is still the king, and it all may be short-lived with fuel efficiency laws kicking in just a few short years from now so get this now and enjoy it while you can as this is about as good as it will get.....

 

[Bruce H.]

In my opinion for those still deciding, go with the one that speaks to your heart. After all, isn't that why we buy these cars? Not that its bigger or faster then others, but it's a fun kick-ass car that appeals to us and our inner child. And to get one just to be better then someone else or those around you is kinda missing the point...

AJ.

Well said, and so true. I use available reviews to better educate myself on a car that I've already fallen in love with, rather than to find one. So far they've supported what my heart is telling me, and I expect that to be the case with the Gen V. I'm often sold before I even slide behind the wheel, when I do I know what I need to, and the test drive just confirms it all!

The other crucial test of course is how you feel when you wash it by hand. Those with experience may want to weigh on on that... and I'm guessing Ralph had that in mind when being inspired by Halle Berry

Bruce

 

[Bruce H.]

Gen 5 doesn't live upto its performance hype. Until it does (doubt it will), it will forever be know as the soft snake.

It would be interesting to see a Gen V vs Gen IV comparison review to see how they compare.

Bruce

 

[ViperSmith]

Gen 5 doesn't live upto its performance hype. Until it does (doubt it will), it will forever be know as the soft snake.

soft enough to be faster than previous generations!

 

[Policy Limits]

Bruce another reason I wouldnt wait is the stale effect. There's something to be said about owning the newest highest technoligically advanced and digitially enhanced model out there, and doing so 1st. Thats probably the reason why most dealers are charging a premium, some tens of thousands of dollars over sticker; they realize the premium is to have the newest hottest thing out there.

If it does turn out to be "soft" or not sorted or a bad decision (which i doubt because it ran almost identical to the ZR1. and no one will suggest that the ZR1 is anything but an incredible high performance supercar) than simply sell or trade it for something else; at least you'll have your own personal review of the car and not someone else's. After all, there's so many great English, German, Italian, Dutch, American and other brands out there to experience and variety is the spice of life

 

[JoelW]

Actually, I would say there are lots of reasons NOT to own the first of a new product with so many technological changes. Time to get it sorted doesn't usually come with the first products out. I-phone 5 and Apple maps are only two of the latest examples. Fortunately phones are fairly low cost, a new car, not so much. As a Gen 3 owner (2003), I can see the gradual improvements made on the way to Gen 4. The new Viper may turn out fine but I hope it is really sorted by the time the drop tops come out.

Bruce another reason I wouldnt wait is the stale effect. There's something to be said about owning the newest highest technoligically advanced and digitially enhanced model out there, and doing so 1st. Thats probably the reason why most dealers are charging a premium, some tens of thousands of dollars over sticker; they realize the premium is to have the newest hottest thing out there.

If it does turn out to be "soft" or not sorted or a bad decision (which i doubt because it ran almost identical to the ZR1. and no one will suggest that the ZR1 is anything but an incredible high performance supercar) than simply sell or trade it for something else; at least you'll have your own personal review of the car and not someone else's. After all, there's so many great English, German, Italian, Dutch, American and other brands out there to experience and variety is the spice of life

 

[Policy Limits]

Very good point. When the gallardo came out in 2004 there were lots of others experiencing a $10k clutch replacement service after only 5k miles and it wasnt until MY2006 that the e-gear software and parts were updated. By the time I purchased my 2007 spyder, the clutches were easily lasting over 400% longer due to the improvements.

I guess the difference is that has origiinal MSRP at close to 1/4 mill and the snake is a relatively low price point so the concern is less; same with iphone. even though my 4s or now the 5 is much higher tech than the original, i owned all previous units as they only cost a few hundred bucks. Bottom line, the snake is an exquisite, rare, high performance piece with a very low price point relative to other brands and its been out for decades now and has basically the same engine as previous models with some tweeks. Not saying there wont be bugs on a first year run, there will be. I'm just saying that if Bruce ordered today he'd be in the 2nd wave of ordering and the bugs after 800 builds before they get to his should be out and if they're not, given the relative low investment, oh well.

 

[ViperSmith]

Actually, I would say there are lots of reasons NOT to own the first of a new product with so many technological changes. Time to get it sorted doesn't usually come with the first products out. I-phone 5 and Apple maps are only two of the latest examples. Fortunately phones are fairly low cost, a new car, not so much. As a Gen 3 owner (2003), I can see the gradual improvements made on the way to Gen 4. The new Viper may turn out fine but I hope it is really sorted by the time the drop tops come out.

I think I'd be more worried if this were a blank sheet redesign, but to be fair it is more of a Gen "4.5" than a true "Gen 5".

 

[JoelW]

I am not really worried - since I won't buy one right now anyway but may be interested when the convertible comes out. I do think traction control and stability control will all be great assets. The interior refinements are very nice. I am not so sure about the digital dash and controls but we'll see. I know lots of cars use them.

I think I'd be more worried if this were a blank sheet redesign, but to be fair it is more of a Gen "4.5" than a true "Gen 5".

 

[redtanrt10]

Bruce, for what your looking for the new Gen V will fit the bill. Exclusive, fast and the interior is much improved. To your comments the "viper wants to kill you", you have to respect the amount of torque, if you don't the rear end will come around. Drivers with 300 hp experience who don't think, wreck vipers Also so many of the wrecks come from people with 6 year old plus cold tires hammering the throttle. As for tracking their great right off the showroom. No offensive but if your current ride is an XKR on dunlop street tires, your not out to set the Mosport track record. The viper will be much quicker and handle better and be easier to drive fast. Until the Randy Probst comments I've never heard any complaints about the brakes. I'm sure the carbon set up of the ZR-1 is more fade free but your not going to have any real fade issues, from gen III forward the viper brakes are very good. Order the track package with the stop tech rotors and the better tires. For what your looking for the Gen V viper will be a great car for you. Good luck! Mike

 

[VENOM V]

Probably the best post I've seen on the Gen V section yet. I couldn't agree more, and frankly I'm sick of all the "The Corvette ZR1 beat the new pre production Viper so I'm not getting one," nonsense. If you can't see that this car is what every kid and most adults dream about owning because it is so rare and exotic compared to anything else out there and you won't get one because there is another comparable car out there that bested it in one test by relative hairs, then you have lost your way in my opinion. SRT created a car that is as **** looking as they get, as fast as anyone can ever hope for (and even too powerful for most), and it is dramatically improved over even my beloved Gen IV. AJ, I'm glad you posted here, and hopefully some of the old grumps on this forum will learn to stop complaining about the negatives about the car and be thankful that they have been given the chance to own an amazing world class American Supercar. IMO this is the new golden age of sports cars, and the Viper is still the king, and it all may be short-lived with fuel efficiency laws kicking in just a few short years from now so get this now and enjoy it while you can as this is about as good as it will get.....

Another exceptional post from someone who gets why some of us are passionate about the Gen V.

As for when to buy, it's all about risk-reward. You can take a risk as an "early adopter" of the new beast like I have chosen to. While others are still fighting over whether the Gen V is "soft," I will be tracking it at Laguna Seca, Willow Springs, Sonoma and other places. And I will be driving down highway 1 with my lady for weekend getaways.

Or you can wait until they show up at the dealership and test drive one before purchasing. Certainly that's the less risky thing to do, and I wouldn't argue with anyone who chose this path. Or you can go to the other extreme, and wait a couple of years as I'm sure SRT will continually refine it and improve performance. But that takes all the fun out of it for me. Carpe diem.

 

[Policy Limits]

other thing critics of the car/brand need to keep in mind is that the last production was 2010; thats 3 years or 33% of a decade ago. If it werent for the company getting bail out $$ and using it in part to make this the SRT flagship, you wouldnt even have the car at all(unless an outsider bought the brand) and I doubt even the critics would like that result.

Venom V, a brain aneurysm comes quick; carpe diem indeed

 

[AJ usmc]

Thankyou Venom V, Hobokenviper, and Bruce h. I wasn't expecting the great feedback. lol
For Bruce, I agree with redtanrt10. Track pack it, and I'd order the gts rims and tires, put those on since they wear slower and garage keep the p-zero corsas for track days. Well that's what I'm doing atleast.
oh, and yall please don't slap me for having gts rims on the "base" srt. lol. I don't need or want the leather and the damptronic shocks would be very nice... but I don't need them either. I know how to adjust shocks & suspensions and can adjust them before and after the track as needed. the base srt is the closest for what I want and ill do the rest.

 

[Stealth]

Bruce, for what your looking for the new Gen V will fit the bill. Exclusive, fast and the interior is much improved. To your comments the "viper wants to kill you", you have to respect the amount of torque, if you don't the rear end will come around. Drivers with 300 hp experience who don't think, wreck vipers Also so many of the wrecks come from people with 6 year old plus cold tires hammering the throttle. As for tracking their great right off the showroom. No offensive but if your current ride is an XKR on dunlop street tires, your not out to set the Mosport track record. The viper will be much quicker and handle better and be easier to drive fast. Until the Randy Probst comments I've never heard any complaints about the brakes. I'm sure the carbon set up of the ZR-1 is more fade free but your not going to have any real fade issues, from gen III forward the viper brakes are very good. Order the track package with the stop tech rotors and the better tires. For what your looking for the Gen V viper will be a great car for you. Good luck! Mike

You can probably swap the stock Gen V brake fluid with Castrol SRF fluid and elimnate the fade issue... .

 

[troublemaker]

I think a lot have lost perspective on a bone stock car. They have already pushed the Gen4 to the 700hp mark, it you want it faster than stock, build it your way. As far the brakes go, the brakes on the new car are still good brakes, but they shoukd also have a long life and are cheap to rebuild. That can not be said for the ZR1s. Throw some sticky track pads and a higher end set of rotors and I'm sure there will be a substantial improvement. A set of six pistons in the front should shorten stopping distance substantially. Tires are a no brainer. Im amazed all the complaining about a stock car that is easy to upgrade. What SRT really needs to do is offer a strict ******** edition. Non of the interior fluff that means nothing to performance numbers, some sticky track pads and tires, shave weight everywhere possibl e and go after the ZR1s track record since that seems to be all that anyone cares about. They got 95% there in the first try, now do they accept the 95% or do they go for it all.

 

[Policy Limits]

I dont know which I love more your "location" description or your signature line. LMFAOO

 

[troublemaker]

I dont know which I love more your "location" description or your signature line. LMFAOO

I have to update that, one finally got out.

 

[ViperSmith]

Pretty much the way I see it anyway, SRT is building towards the 95% that probably will never track their cars. The 5% that do will have a fantastic platform to destroy anyone else on the track.

 

[troublemaker]

Pretty much the way I see it anyway, SRT is building towards the 95% that probably will never track their cars. The 5% that do will have a fantastic platform to destroy anyone else on the track.

Agreed. But instead of saving all the track performance for the ACR edition, a true track pack should be an option also. They already have the main ingredients, just a little icing on the cake for the purely performance minded. Maybe the thought is that it would hurt ACR sales, but I hope I am not the only holding out for an ACR that borrows more from the GTSR than from the GTS. There would still be room for both models.