New PS2 but old DOT ?

[CHAP4034]

After reading a lot of thread about old tires , I ordered a new set of PS2.

When they arrived I verified the fabrication date , DOT 0411 (january 2011 ) for the front and DOT 3508 (august 2008) for the rear.

I called the Michelin distributor to change those rear tires for a more recent DOT and he told me that there's noting he can do !

So I called his Michelin rep. He told me that they are good tires and they stay new until the first heat cycle.

Is that right ?
Am I crazy to ask for new tires with a recent DOT ?

 

[Mopar Steve]

Nope, get them replaced. Often they wont pass tech.

 

[LifeIsGood]

That's some ****...I would be pitching a fit...please don't put up with that. Some might come on here and say that they lose a few percentage points of usability per year (in storage), let say 3%...that's 10%.

 

[Red Snake]

I thought they stayed good as new as long as they were uninstalled and stored in a climate controlled environment?

 

[Mopar Steve]

I thought they stayed good as new as long as they were uninstalled and stored in a climate controlled environment?

Dateline, Prime-time live, 20/20, or one of the TV news shows did a story on this. They DO go bad in storage.

 

[VicTxV10]

I thought they stayed good as new as long as they were uninstalled and stored in a climate controlled environment?

That is what I understood also..

 

[Garron]

After reading a lot of thread about old tires , I ordered a new set of PS2.

When they arrived I verified the fabrication date , DOT 0411 (january 2011 ) for the front and DOT 3508 (august 2008) for the rear.

I called the Michelin distributor to change those rear tires for a more recent DOT and he told me that there's noting he can do !

So I called his Michelin rep. He told me that they are good tires and they stay new until the first heat cycle.

Is that right ?
Am I crazy to ask for new tires with a recent DOT ?

I just had the same problem, we started a fight with michelin Canada, we kept returning the tires and another set with 2008 date codes would come. They will tell you they are good for six years and they are new.

 

[Limit]

Make them send them back.

 

[TrackAire]

If you can find a way to get a tire with a newer "born on date", I would do it. 2 to 3 year old tires aren't that big of a deal, especially if you burn them up by tracking the car, drag racing, etc. But, if you just cruise around and put 2500 easy miles a year on the car, then they would be considered "old" in about another 3 years, yet still have quite a bit of tread on them.

I believe Michelin claims that no tire should be in service after 10 years. Ford Motor Company says tires over 6 years old should not be used. Firestone and Continental are also at the 10 year mark the last time I checked.

Think of tires as milk in your refrigerator...even if you don't open the carton eventually it will go bad. Chances are the tires in question would be "ok" but really, why pay the big $$$ they want for them and then put them on a car capable of 175 plus mph??? Why take a chance if you really use the car to its full performance potential?

When old tires fail, it is never a slow leak that goes flat in your garage. Old tires dry out internally and when they let go they often delaminate (total blowout, worst case scenario) at speed. Assuming the blowout doesn't cause you to wreck, the tire often damages the body panels of your vehicle. On RV's it can be an easy $5k to $10k repair job.

You may want to call back the Michelin rep and let him know your intentions are to use the tires in a "Silver State Open Road Race" type of event where you'll be driving at over 160 mph for 90 miles. Tell him you'd feel better about the tires if he could get you some documentation from Michelin stating that tires of this age would be ok and that they will stand behind these older tires during a very high speed driving event.

Hope this helps and good luck,

George

 

[goldcup]

They do go bad in storage and I know from personal experience. They are also not stored in a climate controlled environment if we are lucky they are out of the sun 8-12 hours per day.
Some putz who thinks the pinnacle of performance is a Celica GT and knows less about tires than a large portion of the dedicated track guys(not me) on this forum and tells you their fine,ask him how is it our beer has a born on date and is rotated on first in first out basis and my $1500 set of tires isn't?
Sorry I have customer service issues!!!!

 

[markk]

Also keep the warranty period in mind and be sure to keep your receipt. From tire rack's website:
--
Most tire manufacturer's warranties cover their tires for four years from the date of purchase or five years from the week the tires were manufactured. So if you purchase new tires that were manufactured exactly two years ago they will be covered for a total of six years (four years from the date of purchase) as long as you have your receipt. If you lose your receipt, your tires' warranty coverage will end five years from the week the tire was produced (resulting in the tire manufacturer's warranty coverage ending only three years from the date of purchase in this example).
--
From Michelin's website:
The “legal life of the tire” is six years from the date of purchase or the life of the “usable tread,” which is defined as the original tread worn down to the level of the treadwear indicators - 2/32nds of an inch (1.6 mm) of tread remaining, whichever occurs first. The date of purchase is documented by a new vehicle registration or tire sales invoice. If no proof of purchase is available, the date of manufacture, as molded on the sidewall, will be used.
-and-
Tires which have been in use for 5 years or more should continue to be inspected by a specialist at least annually.
...
While most tires will need replacement before they achieve 10 years, it is recommended that any tires in service 10 years or more from the date of manufacture, including spare tires, be replaced with new tires as a simple precaution even if such tires appear serviceable and even if they have not reached the legal wear limit.

I guess part of the debate is how to define "in use" and "in service". Personally, I would want them replaced, but I don't know if there is a documented justification. I like George's (TrackAire) suggestion about how you plan to use them.

 

[Camfab]

I would just call Michelin and tell them that you are going to run an event like the Silver State Challenge with them. See what they have to say then, don't forget to mention the fact that you've already mentioned this to an attorney if something should go wrong with the tires.

Granted this is not about a Michelin tire, but..............I had a five year old never used, properly inflated load range E spare tire blow up like a bomb inside my old Van. It was just mounted inside the van and one day as I was driving from one job to another and it blew. It scared the poop out of of me, as I had no idea what had just transpired

 

[AZTVR]

They do go bad in storage and I know from personal experience. They are also not stored in a climate controlled environment if we are lucky they are out of the sun 8-12 hours per day.

Not sure what kind of Michelin tire wholesaler or retailer stores tires where they are only out of the sun 8-12 hours a day. I can see where they would not be stored in a climate controlled facility, though.

This is one reason to buy from a high volume source. However, they still sell 2 year old tires. This is particularly a problem with our rear tires that are pretty much Viper only. We are pretty much put in the position to trust their word that they are storing them correctly.

 

[ROCKET62]

I always find it ironic that many times, someone will buy a product from a non-site supporting vendor (which I assume is the case here) and then come on the site for help and support. Partsrack, Tirerack, and the VPA would seem to stand behind what they sell.

Oops- just noticed that the poster is from Canada which may throw a wrinkle in shipping tires to the great white north. PS - you must be really optimistic about this damn winter ending - as it's starting to feel that winter is going to last forever down here in Iowa.

 

[AZTVR]

I always find it ironic that many times, someone will buy a product from a non-site supporting vendor (which I assume is the case here) and then come on the site for help and support. Partsrack, Tirerack, and the VPA would seem to stand behind what they sell.

Although I do it, I'm not sure that the "right" thing to do is buy tires through internet vendors instead of supporting our home town businesses. My neighbors do need to have some place that they can earn their living at.

Also, our site supporting vendors do sell 2 year old tires, and I expressed the same concern when I received them. I accepted their explanation which was similar to what the OP was told. We don't know whether their storage facilities are any different than where the OP's tires came from.

 

[LifeIsGood]

I always find it ironic that many times, someone will buy a product from a non-site supporting vendor (which I assume is the case here) and then come on the site for help and support. Partsrack, Tirerack, and the VPA would seem to stand behind what they sell.

Preface to the following rant...nothing personal to you ROCKET62...your post was just the final straw...



What? I've spent $25K+ on my viper since I purchased it 2+ years ago. The majority of that has been with site sponsors, but not all of it. I will buy whatever I need from whomever I freakin' feel like it. I'm getting tired of hearing 'support our site sponsors' as much as I'm tired of hearing 'take it to the track'. Don't get me wrong...some of them have helped me tremendously over the past 2 years and I understand why they need our support, but enough of them are getting on my nerves already about this topic. I'm a grown man and I can decide where my money is spent. If I buy something from Pep Boys or Wal-freakin'-Mart or Billy Bob's local freakin' Lube and Chicken...I will...and if I want to come on this site (where I pay yearly to be a freakin' member) and ask questions about those non-site-supporting products...I also freakin' will...stop whining about site sponsors!

 

[georgethedog]

I had new PS2's put on my 03 last year at Roanoke and the fronts and backs had dates that were less than a year old. Thanks John and Dave at Roanoke for looking out for your customers!

 

[jerseydave]

Preface to the following rant...nothing personal to you ROCKET62...your post was just the final straw...



What? I've spent $25K+ on my viper since I purchased it 2+ years ago. The majority of that has been with site sponsors, but not all of it. I will buy whatever I need from whomever I freakin' feel like it. I'm getting tired of hearing 'support our site sponsors' as much as I'm tired of hearing 'take it to the track'. Don't get me wrong...some of them have helped me tremendously over the past 2 years and I understand why they need our support, but enough of them are getting on my nerves already about this topic. I'm a grown man and I can decide where my money is spent. If I buy something from Pep Boys or Wal-freakin'-Mart or Billy Bob's local freakin' Lube and Chicken...I will...and if I want to come on this site (where I pay yearly to be a freakin' member) and ask questions about those non-site-supporting products...I also freakin' will...stop whining about site sponsors!

Your post just made me hungry for Billy Bob's Lube and Chicken. Yum.

 

[LifeIsGood]

The fried catfish there is very tasty.

 

[Fatboy 18]

Real World: Michelin built more REARS in 2008 in anticipation of many more Vipers being built in 09 and 10 than were built. Last time I checked, they have an overstock.

Well with any other company, if you have an overstock of something you tend to have a discount to shift excess stock,
How come we are not seeing big big discounts on these tires Hell if they were cheaper I would buy some.

I guess Michelin are not bothered

 

[georgethedog]

Well with any other company, if you have an overstock of something you tend to have a discount to shift excess stock,
How come we are not seeing big big discounts on these tires Hell if they were cheaper I would buy some.

I guess Michelin are not bothered

That is a very good point. I wonder who is holding most of the inventory... Michelin or vendors like Tire Rack?

 

[JonB]

'08 new tires are NOT old, or out-dated. If I am correct, the manufacturer wont make more, when supplies already exist.

After reading a lot of thread about old tires , I ordered a new set of PS2. When they arrived I verified the fabrication date , DOT 0411 (january 2011 ) for the front and DOT 3508 (august 2008) for the rear. I called the Michelin distributor to change those rear tires for a more recent DOT and he told me that there's noting he can do !

So I called his Michelin rep. He told me that they are good tires and they stay new until the first heat cycle. Is that right ?

Exactly what decades of testing has shown. Believe the Michelin Rep....not the anonymous poster or two here.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had new PS2's put on my 03 last year at Roanoke and the fronts and backs had dates that were less than a year old. Thanks John and Dave at Roanoke for looking out for your customers!

George: 'Last year' you were probably delighted with 44/08 date codes. "Taking care of customers" on date codes was not at play, even tho Roanoke is GREAT. Inventory at Michelin was the factor, due to anticipated production runs in 2008. See if the rears are late/08? I betcha.

I, too, put PS2s on my ACR in Feb 2010. (for the rainy Spring) They have 44/08 date codes, same as being released even now in Feb 11.

 

[Flexx91]

'08 new tires are NOT old, or out-dated. If I am correct, the manufacturer wont make more, when supplies already exist.

Which makes me wonder how some would expect Michelin or vendors to refund money for something they are not legally obligated to do (in good faith maybe but not from a legal standpoint). Someone even mentioned a lawyer.

You want tires with at least an xx10 manufacture date then ask for them. If none can be provided, then find someone who can or choose another brand (which will make the Nitto and Kuhmo folks happy).

 

[LifeIsGood]

So there it is...BUY PS2s...BUY PS2s...BUY PS2s...but the rears are going to be 3 years OLD.

Our site sponsors, except maybe TireRack and dealerships that keep tires in stock...don't know what the DOT date is on tires that you purchase from them. They are middle men, they don't keep stock of a lot of the stuff that they sell...it's drop shipped from other suppliers/manufacturers. There ya go.

I sure like my Nitto INVOs.

 

[TI3VOM]

I just bought a set of Kumho Ecsta XS tires all the way around for my 06 coupe and they showed up all ranging from 3908-4308 I called Tire Rack they gave me the "climate controlled" Crap so I called Charles at Kumho he told me that they were as good as new, I was going to install them until I read up at the top they will not pass tech?!? This is crazy I am waiting now to hear back from Tire Rack on Monday to find out if they found any with a more recent born on....I'll tell ya this is not the way I would conduct business if I were them.

 

[Garron]

If my dealer "Chrysler" orders a rear tire from Chrysler Canada who don't stock them and get the tires directly from michelin Canada, they will come with a 2008 date code. In the spring both front and rear were coming with a 2008 date code. Fronts are now 2010, sport cups front and rear are now 2010.

We had a four month fight with michelin. They will not discount them and will continually tell you they are fine.

 

[JonB]

SO you can believe the experts at NHTSA, Michelin, Kumho, TireRack; Tire and Rubber Council, Rubber Mfrs Assn, etc etc, or 'someone' who claims they often wont pass tech; and some 'other guy' who has an axe to grind or pitches fits for their own entertainment and post count. Why not believe the experts? In three incidents above, 2 Michelin, 1 Kumho, they all spoke the same FACTS.

Please: Someone with a new 2010 Non-ACR Viper: What date is on YOUR rear PS2 tires?

Note to GARRON: ACR-Cups are a different story, small-batch performance tires, newer dates. Hence, you snagged 2010s.


DOT / NHTSA Study, report to Congress, on tire aging:

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/download/2010/0512/23529107.pdf

And furthermore: Even the CA Knee-**** response to the T.V. investigation failed to launch a proposed change in the CA laws and rules on tire age. The professional and recent conventional wisdom is that tires are perfectly safe for at least 6 years. Some tire manufacturers say even longer. We all have seen that SOME used tires, even 3 years old, are pure CRAP..... and yet we see some owners rationalizing how GREAT their 10-year old tread is ! {too bad we see some of those in ditches.}

If you want to keep tires longer than 6 years on a VIPER..... you maybe should not be driving one above the speed limit.

Finally: If you truly profess to want to prolong your tire life, fill them with Nitrogen. Less oxidation from the inside. Other benefits, too.

And REALLY finally: If you put any stock in performance tire tests, you would not likely have bought nittos...... Owners generally buy those for low price, or oversize-wheel availabilty, or tread appeal. Not for real, tested, dry driving performace vs PS2 or Kumho. But ANYTHING is better than hard, old, used tires that have been driven for several years

 

[TowDawg]

One nice thing about Nitto running out of Invos. Mine are brand new! The rears are from the third week of 2011 and the fronts are from the second week of 2011.

I'll got them on my new 6 spokes and on the car today. I'll have to see how they compare to the PS2's when I can get some real seat time.

 

[TI3VOM]

I was concerned because of the Run Craps I am taking off are from 08 and hard as rock and yes they have probably 2K miles on them and have been on the car, I get that, and I do trust the manu. thats why I called them! Do you know for certain that they will pass tech? I will probably have these tires on for 2 yrs and then change due to UV exposure, heat, etc. And if there is a certain timeframe they have to be in to go on a track then I will need to change if this is false I am going to be installing them to avoid hassle of re-shipping etc.. but better to find out now then later,
Also we are upset that this is not ADVERTISED and you cannot tell me that, that tire is 100% maybe 99.9 maybe 95% regardless we purchased what we believed would be NEW tires not 2.5 yr old shelf overstock. There should be options and price difference for these situations and you cannot say this is not a legitimate argument. If you bought a new car with 0 miles and found out it was an 08 model but the dealer said its been stored properly and they would recognize it as an 11 I think you would have an issue with that....even if this is on a smaller scale.

 

[TI3VOM]

Expiration dates for tires proposed - Nov. 8, 2004

Here's a little bedtime reading for you. Granted this is from 2004 and I wouldn't exactly take auto advise from CNN but it drives the point home of a "shelf life" so to speak. The tire is again in my eyes not 100% and that is what I paid for.