New Viper Product Announcement, 14" Brake Rotor Upgrade (with photos)...

[Sean Roe]

New Viper Product Announcement, 14\" Brake Rotor Upgrade (with photos)...

Hello Everyone,

Roe Racing is pleased to announce today's new Viper product.

Product description: Front brake upgrade utilizing Performance Friction Corporation brand DDS 14 inch rotors and stock front calipers. Effective performance brake upgrade for street and track use.

Applicable model years: 1996 and newer Vipers with 18" wheels (original equipment beginning in 1999)

The stock rotors on a Viper are 13 inches in diameter. We have now developed a simple "bolt on" brake kit that allows the front rotors to be upgraded to 14 inches without changing the original calipers.
Installing larger diameter rotors have several benefits which include improved brake feel, performance, fade resistance, longer pad and rotor life, etc.. Just like using a longer breaker bar to loosen a bolt, the brakes can now slow the tire down with less force, which yields lower temps, pad wear, etc..

Parts that make up the kit:
- 2 front caliper relocation brackets with mounting hardware and instructions.
- 2 PFC 14 inch by 1.25 inch race quality rotors with PFC's exclusive T mount floating hats.

Features:
- Retains your original calipers, pads and lines, (minimizes investment in take off parts).
- Simply bolts on, no special tools required, no need to disconnect the brake lines.
- Reduced rotating weight. Stock rotors weight 22lbs 7oz. PFC 14" rotors and aluminum hats weigh 18lbs 10oz.
- Utilizes high quality PFC designed slotted rotors and floating hats. PFC rotors have won CART, NASCAR and Sportscar championships for the past two years. PFC rotors were the choice of ORECA team Viper GTS-R's last year at the Daytona 24 hour where they won the event overall while using the same set of rotors for the entire race.
- Retains value. The wear iems (rotors) can be replaced and the kit would be as good as new again. Easily transferrable to another car.
- Reduced maintenance costs as the pads and rotors will last longer.
- High quality components at a reasonable price with customer support from Roe Racing.

The price of the kit is still being worked out based on negotiations with PFC on rotor and hat costs. The caliper relocation brackets alone will be available for $299.95 per set. Here are some pictures. Please feel free to ask questions.

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[Supercharged Vipermad]

Re: New Viper Product Announcement, 14\" Brake Rotor Upgrade (with photos)...

Sean,
Is this system compatible with the '01 cars' antilock brakes?

 

[dtittle]

Re: New Viper Product Announcement, 14\" Brake Rotor Upgrade (with photos)...

For the most part I think Shawn and I agree and try to make good products and good prices. So why would anyone want to kick Shawn's can for doing something like that? Look's to me to be a great product and a good idea! The PFC rotors are definitely top notch so "Way to go Shawn"!

The only thing that I "might" add to that kit is a red rotor hat. The "Poser" in all of us seems to like the color and for some reason it makes the rotor look bigger and sticks out from behind the wheel. Probably doesn't cools as well but, hey!

Good job Shawn. Have you got any performance numbers yet?

Regards,

 

[Mark Red GTS Cooper]

Re: New Viper Product Announcement, 14\" Brake Rotor Upgrade (with photos)...

Sean,

Could I go to a larger caliper in front if I wanted to. I found relacation brakets for the rear, so I could put the front rotors, calipers on the rear. The stock rear brake gets relocated with a braket for e-brake and the new bracket mounts the re-located front calipers.

Whew, got it out!

Thanks
Mark

 

[Mark Red GTS Cooper]

Re: New Viper Product Announcement, 14\" Brake Rotor Upgrade (with photos)...

Sean,

One other question, can the hats be taken off easly to paint them,

Mark

 

[Sean Roe]

Re: New Viper Product Announcement, 14\" Brake Rotor Upgrade (with photos)...

To answer your questions....

Q. Is it compatible with ABS cars?
A. It should be great with ABS cars. I looked at an 01 and saw nothing that would get in the way. John S. in West Palm is getting his set this next week and we'll see how well it performs with ABS.

Q. Any performance #'s yet?
A. I'm running them on the track on Sunday. I plan to beat the heck out of them to see just how much abuse they can take. They're the same rotors most Indy car and Winston Cup teams use, so I expect good results in performance and longevity. We have a bone stock '99 coming in for them on Monday and we'll do some tests on stopping distance.

Q. Can it be coupled with a rear brake upgrade?
A. Sure. As with any custom upgrade, you'll have to test the combination out and "might" need a proportioning valve to decrease rear pressure. Prop valves are easy to install and you can get them for under $50 with shipping.

Q. Can the hats be easily removed and painted?
A. Yes. In fact, I'll probably send PFC rotors & hats unassembled just so that if you want to color them, you don't have to disassemble and then reassemble them again.

Here's my opinion about the package we created.
Larger diameter rotors are a great upgrade to virtually any brake system. The reduction in heat and wear, while increasing driver control of the brakes provides dramatic differences over 13" rotors, even though it's just 1" in diameter larger. 14" rotors are about the largest rotors we can fit in "most" Vipers as you need an 18" wheel. Team Viper talked with PFC about doing this project as well, though I "heard" that DCX's bean counters killed the project before it could get started.

With our caliper relocation brackets, people will be able to easily improve their brakes at minimal expense and can use virtually any brand of rotor they prefer. We will sell the brackets as a set alone for $299.95 with mounting hardware. In itself, that's a great value for what it can do to improve your brakes. Keep in mind (if you're getting rotors from Dilusi, StopTech, etc..) that our brackets relocate the stock caliper out on the same plane as the original caliper. So the replacement 14" rotor offset will need to be the same as stock.

In regard to the PFC rotors and hats, the quality can't be beat. They're truly the best on the market and they have the largest share in professional racing (CART, NASCAR, etc.). Rotor life and performance is superior to all others, but so is the price. I'm working with PFC to get the rotor, floating hat and mounting hardware costs down, but expect them to be higher than others that are available. In Winston Cup, the PFC rotors last an entire weekend (all practice sessions, qualifying and race), where before, teams had to change rotors before the race. So, hopefully, the initial purchase price will pay off in longevity on Vipers as well.

 

[Joseph Dell]

Re: New Viper Product Announcement, 14\" Brake Rotor Upgrade (with photos)...

For those of us who don't know much about brakes, will these rotors help me stop faster? If so, how much faster?

Thanks!

JD

 

[Sean Roe]

Re: New Viper Product Announcement, 14\" Brake Rotor Upgrade (with photos)...

Hi Joeseph,
We'll be testing performance on an otherwise stock '99 RT/10 this week and will report back.
I ran my car and let some other Viper owners drive it on the track today with the 14" PFC rotors. They're impresive. It takes a lot less brake pressure to stop the car. I'm going to pull the wheels and inspect / measure them on Monday ( or as soon as possible).
Will keep everyone posted.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Re: New Viper Product Announcement, 14\" Brake Rotor Upgrade (with photos)...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean Roe:
They're impresive. It takes a lot less brake pressure to stop the car.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sean aint kidding, they are very impressive! Thanks alot Sean for letting me take your GTS for a spin around Gainesville Raceway today. The difference between your GTS and my GTS (formally a Justin Bell Viper) is nite and day. What a great improvement at a reasonable price.

 

[kverges]

Re: New Viper Product Announcement, 14\" Brake Rotor Upgrade (with photos)...

Sean,

Nice hardware, but won't the increased leverage on a 14" rotor make the front bias problem on the Viper even worse? Shouldn't this be coupled with larger-piston rear calipers to offset bias?

Keith

 

[Sean Roe]

Re: New Viper Product Announcement, 14\" Brake Rotor Upgrade (with photos)...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kverges:
Sean,

Nice hardware, but won't the increased leverage on a 14" rotor make the front bias problem on the Viper even worse? Shouldn't this be coupled with larger-piston rear calipers to offset bias?

Keith

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Keith,

On a stock Viper, the front brakes always lock first and I personally have never been able to get rear wheel lock up when braking in a straight line on a dry road. To get more braking performance out of the car, a rear upgrade is a good idea.

I don't think I'd go as far as to say that this 14" front rotor upgrade will make the front bias problem "worse". I have driven Vipers with big "front only" caliper / pad / rotor upgrades that caused easy lock up and were difficult to control at threshold braking. The Justin Bell School ended up taking off one of those kits (big front calipers and larger race pads with 13" rotors) last year because students were flat spotting front tires too much during testing and evaluation. I have not experienced the negative side effects associated with a brake system too far out of balance with this option. The caliper piston and pad size is not changed, so it's more balanced than other "front only" brake upgrades available.

Before purchasing, one should also ask StopTech, Dilusi, Brembo, Baer, Mov It, etc.. about the balance of their "front only" upgrade packages that change piston, pad and or rotor size. Because the braking performance is ultimately limited to the tire's ability to hold tracion to the road, I'd expect that a 14" rotor upgrade using the stock caliper would be as effective as the other front options available, at a lower cost.

Here's some brake upgrade options we recommend and price from our shop:

Street use; 14" rotor upgrade with stock calipers front and rear, street pads. Remove stock proportioning valve spring, which helps add some rear pressure $0. Front caliper brackets $299.95. Performance street rotors with solid mounting aluminum hats $650 (replacement rotors $150 each).

Street with some track use; same as above with track pads, PFC 90 compound pads front and rear, front $195, rear $205. * PFC is scheduling to make stock size Viper brake pads in their latest Indy car and Winston Cup 01 compounds!

High performance street and track use; Front brake caliper brackets $299.95, PFC full race floating rotors $1250 (relpacement rotors available at $325 each) Roe Racing rear brake upgrade $870. PFC race front pads $195, rear race pads $140.

We also offer a full road race system with AP six piston front calipers, 30% larger master cylinder, etc.. for optimum performance and heavy track use.

 

[Bob Woodhouse]

Re: New Viper Product Announcement, 14\" Brake Rotor Upgrade (with photos)...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean Roe:
Keith,

On a stock Viper, the front brakes always lock first and I personally have never been able to get rear wheel lock up when braking in a straight line on a dry road. To get more braking performance out of the car, a rear upgrade is a good idea.

I don't think I'd go as far as to say that this 14" front rotor upgrade will make the front bias problem "worse". I have driven Vipers with big "front only" caliper / pad / rotor upgrades that caused easy lock up and were difficult to control at threshold braking. The Justin Bell School ended up taking off one of those kits (big front calipers and larger race pads with 13" rotors) last year because students were flat spotting front tires too much during testing and evaluation. I have not experienced the negative side effects associated with a brake system too far out of balance with this option. The caliper piston and pad size is not changed, so it's more balanced than other "front only" brake upgrades available.

Before purchasing, one should also ask StopTech, Dilusi, Brembo, Baer, Mov It, etc.. about the balance of their "front only" upgrade packages that change piston, pad and or rotor size. Because the braking performance is ultimately limited to the tire's ability to hold tracion to the road, I'd expect that a 14" rotor upgrade using the stock caliper would be as effective as the other front options available, at a lower cost.

Here's some brake upgrade options we recommend and price from our shop:

Street use; 14" rotor upgrade with stock calipers front and rear, street pads. Remove stock proportioning valve spring, which helps add some rear pressure $0. Front caliper brackets $299.95. Performance street rotors with solid mounting aluminum hats $650 (replacement rotors $150 each).

Street with some track use; same as above with track pads, PFC 90 compound pads front and rear, front $195, rear $205. * PFC is scheduling to make stock size Viper brake pads in their latest Indy car and Winston Cup 01 compounds!

High performance street and track use; Front brake caliper brackets $299.95, PFC full race floating rotors $1250 (relpacement rotors available at $325 each) Roe Racing rear brake upgrade $870. PFC race front pads $195, rear race pads $140.

We also offer a full road race system with AP six piston front calipers, 30% larger master cylinder, etc.. for optimum performance and heavy track use.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Being unable to take the time to properly contribute to the issues you are discussing, just let me accentuate the concern that Keith brought forward.... the front to rear brake balance: Yes of course it will be affected. In the opening remarks of this thread Sean pointed out that going to a 14 from a 13" rotor is like using a longer breaker bar. Agreed then yes? The physics books will. And the result here is you will contribute to more front wheel lock up unless it is addressed hydraulically with piston sizing or valving. Consider a complete set-up.

 

[Sean Roe]

Re: New Viper Product Announcement, 14\" Brake Rotor Upgrade (with photos)...

Hi Bob,

Thanks for posting. I agree with you wholeheartedly and have been a proponent of balanced brake systems all along. As far as I know, Roe Racing the only one that does not offer a "front brake only" larger caliper and pad upgrade, but is the only one who offers a larger displacement master cylinder with complete system upgrades. This 14" front rotor upgrade is as close as I care to get to upgrading the front brakes only, because of balance concerns.

We have one set going out to an '01 ACR with ABS later this week. I expect that the '01's will really be able to make great use of the 14" front rotor upgrade with their larger stock rear calipers and ABS system.